The "great" atheist proved to be a moron before his death...Atheism=stupidity

[ChuckleHead]

But isn't it magical that our whole solar system developed out of a solar dust nebula? Don't you think that is a very fantastic concept? I mean it is magic right? If you had a magician on stage and he conjured a living being out of dust in front of your eyes you would think that's magic right? Well, guess what, that is exactly what happened to our solar system and you and your dumbbells. Only it took close to 5 billion years.

You think that is all chance? Would you say Chance is the"Creator"? See any way you look at it the Universe was created - even if it was Chance. The forces in the Universe has to be just right for the Solar System to develop out of a nebula. The precision is so extreme that scientists concede it cannot be by chance - the odds are too great. So some scientist reason there has to be trillions of multi-universes so they can feel more comfortable with those odds. They are fudging as they go along. Nobody can prove there is no Creator. The proof for a Creator is the Universe. It is the responsibility of an atheist to disprove the existence of a Creator. And they can't.

you take a sound approach, but why do scientist have to be fudging and all that?

why can't they be searching and why can't there be thousands of universes with their own creator anyway?  you use reason up to that point but then arbitrarily inject "they are fudging" for comfort.  

so what if there are billions of universes, that doesn't invalidate the concept.

[obsidian]

Oh, the irony of a religious believer accusing someone else of "blind faith". A few questions for the true believers:

1. Is the Earth really just 5,000 years old, despite core samples, radiometric dating, and carbon dating of fossils that prove it is at least 4.5 billion years old?

2. Did God put all the dinosaur bones in the ground? Why would He make them so much older than the Universe he created (in a mere 7 days)?

3. Why did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons? Were they not created by God, and thus not birthed by a woman, and thus would not have had umbilical cords in the womb, and thus would not have had bellybuttons? If Adam and Eve did not have bellybuttons, how did they populate the Earth? If they did have bellybuttons and were created in God's image, does that mean that God has a bellybutton? Why would God have a bellybutton?

4. If Adam and Eve did populate the world as the Bible says, wouldn't their offspring be guilty of incest? After all, the the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve would have married their own sisters and brothers if the race was to populate the earth. Doesn't the Bible prohibit incest in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?


Etcetera, etcetera...

You can believe in a Creator and the fact that the Universe is over 13 billion years old. The Bible should not be interpreted literally and there are a lot of fairy tales / metaphors in it. Overall it has a good message to lead your life but I don't view it literally.

And if you believe in evolution then yes in the beginning a species will have very few individuals so incest does occur in nature and has for billions of years.

You need to think outside the box. Evolution was the Creators way of creating life - and it took billions of years. But the evolution of a species happens relatively fast. When the Dinosaurs when extinct around 65 million years ago as a result of the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event, there were only a few small land based mammals species running around on the planet. And now most mammals evolved from those little critters - in 65 million years! That is fucking fast when you think about it.

[orion]

But isn't it magical that our whole solar system developed out of a solar dust nebula? Don't you think that is a very fantastic concept? I mean it is magic right? If you had a magician on stage and he conjured a living being out of dust in front of your eyes you would think that's magic right? Well, guess what, that is exactly what happened to our solar system and you and your dumbbells. Only it took close to 5 billion years.

You think that is all chance? Would you say Chance is the"Creator"? See any way you look at it the Universe was created - even if it was Chance. The forces in the Universe has to be just right for the Solar System to develop out of a nebula. The precision is so extreme that scientists concede it cannot be by chance - the odds are too great. So some scientist reason there has to be trillions of multi-universes so they can feel more comfortable with those odds. They are fudging as they go along. Nobody can prove there is no Creator. The proof for a Creator is the Universe. It is the responsibility of an atheist to disprove the existence of a Creator. And they can't.

Not magic at all, it's called gravity.  Trillions upon trillions of metric tons of dust and gas swirling around, eventually particles attract each other and combine.  Add asteroids as big as some countries and you can see there is no magic. Of course the time span is huge.

And just as the earth was born in such a way someday it will be obliterated by our sun expanding and making things quite toasty, but fear not an asteroid or meteor will wipe us all out long before then.  And you know what?  Our galaxy will go on without even a hiccup, as if we never existed.  Where does any belief system come into play here?

[obsidian]

you take a sound approach, but why do scientist have to be fudging and all that?

why can't they be searching and why can't there be thousands of universes with their own creator anyway?  you use reason up to that point but then arbitrarily inject "they are fudging" for comfort.  

so what if there are billions of universes, that doesn't invalidate the concept.

There is nothing wrong with them searching. Without their curiosity we wouldn't know as much as we do. Scientists prefer to form an opinion based on empirical evidence. There is nothing wrong with that. They concede that the Universe has been fine tuned so precisely that it points to a Creator. Because they can't prove a Creator they theorized there had to be trillions of multi-verses to explain the fine tuning and diminish the role of a Creator. That is what I mean by fudge - they came up with a new concept without being able to prove it empirically (at this point). It was done because they could not accept the fine tuning of the Universe because it points to a Design. Fudging = Speculative.

[obsidian]

"They are fudging as they go along." No, they are not. Science is real (unlike the Bible) and is based on tangible, measurable results.


"It is the responsibility of an atheist to disprove the existence of a Creator." No, it is not, anymore than it is the "responsibility" of the religious to prove the existence of God (which they can't).

There is no empirical evidence of a multi-verse. It is speculative science.

The existence of a Creator can be proven more easily because the odds of the forces in the Universe being just right for life to develop is so extreme that it points to a design. It could not be fine tuned so exactly by Chance. Believers in a Creator don't have to prove the existence of a Creator because the Universe and life on Earth is proof. The fine tuned forces in the Universe is proof.

As an atheist you have to prove that it could all happen by Chance. And right now you don't have proof of that.

[ChuckleHead]

There is nothing wrong with them searching. Without their curiosity we wouldn't know as much as we do. Scientists prefer to form an opinion based on empirical evidence. There is nothing wrong with that. They concede that the Universe has been fine tuned so precisely that it points to a Creator. Because they can't prove a Creator they theorized there had to be trillions of multi-verses to explain the fine tuning and diminish the role of a Creator. That is what I mean by fudge - they came up with a new concept without being able to prove it empirically (at this point). It was done because they could not accept the fine tuning of the Universe because it points to a Design. Fudging = Speculative.

but multiple universes isn't accepted by science, it's posited as a possibility by some scientists.  it's just a candidate theory and they know it.

no scientist would say it's fact. they are perfectly willing to discard it.

[obsidian]

Not magic at all, it's called gravity.  Trillions upon trillions of metric tons of dust and gas swirling around, eventually particles attract each other and combine.  Add asteroids as big as some countries and you can see there is no magic. Of course the time span is huge.

And just as the earth was born in such a way someday it will be obliterated by our sun expanding and making things quite toasty, but fear not an asteroid or meteor will wipe us all out long before then.  And you know what?  Our galaxy will go on without even a hiccup, as if we never existed.  Where does any belief system come into play here?

It's not just Gravity. Gravity is a weak force. There are 4 fundamental forces of nature:

Gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction. Without these forces the solar system would not develop out of a Nebula.

But how do you get a lion or elephant out of that - after a star and planet has been formed?

Do you know how life started on the planet?

I'll give you a hint: Thermodynamics and Entropy

That and the fact that our Earth is the correct size and distance from the Sun. And the Sun has the correct mass.

You take for granted a lot. If it is all chance, why can't we destroy gravity in the Universe? How would you go about removing the 4 fundamental forces of nature from the Universe?

[obsidian]

but multiple universes isn't accepted by science, it's posited as a possibility by some scientists.  it's just a candidate theory and they know it.

no scientist would say it's fact. they are perfectly willing to discard it.

I agree. Not all scientists. So scientists have to concede the Universe is a Design - based on the fine tuning of the fundamental forces of nature.

Einstein believed in a Creator. He did not believe in a personal God but he believed in a Creator. Many Scientists do.

[ChuckleHead]

It's not just Gravity. Gravity is a weak force. There are 4 fundamental forces of nature:

Gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction. Without these forces the solar system would not develop out of a Nebula.

But how do you get a lion or elephant out of that - after a star and planet has been formed?

Do you know how life started on the planet?

I'll give you a hint: Thermodynamics and Entropy

That and the fact that our Earth is the correct size and distance from the Sun. And the Sun has the correct mass.

You take for granted a lot. If it is all chance, why can't we destroy gravity in the Universe? How would you go about removing the 4 fundamental forces of nature from the Universe?

i find it curious that you use science to indict science.

on another note.
i find it heartening that a number of people here have obviously put in work in tackling the most profound questions. its the best any of us can do.

[obsidian]

i find it curious that you use science to indict science.

on another note.
i find it heartening that a number of people here have obviously put in work in tackling the most profound questions. its the best any of us can do.

Actually, I look at science to indict atheists (scientist or non-scientists).

Bottom line is the fine tuning is something atheists will have to address if they dismiss the Universe as a Design.

[Agnostic007]

Deep breath. You do know that there is much more evidence for Jesus than there is for any other historical figure, don't you? Again, I have dealt with Carrier previously. The man is an unqualified buffoon. Imagine what you would say about someone who claimed that the existence of the Roman Empire was highly improbable by applying Bayes Theorem to history. No serious scholar controverts the historicity of Christ; plainly Carrier only does so because he is an evil lying atheist. Honestly, how naive and stupid can you be to fall for his bloody bosh?

Oh my fu*king god...... 

[Ropo]

I dont put much credibility into any of the major religions, but at the same time i dont really see how anyone can be an athiest either...how can you just think everything is nothing and nothing has any meaning or purpose??

there must be SOME KIND of higher power. i just dont pretend to have any comprehension of what that is, much less what it wants or that it has passed down all its guidelines in some little 'book'

So, because you are too stupid to understand what the world is all about, there has to be some higher power, to help your incompetent brains to get a grip at things? This is the main problem what comes about understanding reality: MOST OF US ARE TOO STUPID TO DO SO. Let me explain: Highest IQ's what has been measured are ~230 point. Average IQ in USA is 93. When smartest part of people are over 200 points, how we get the average as low it is, while we know that level of official retard is 60 points? For every high IQ  there is hundreds of thousands of sub par IQ's, whose intelligence is bit more than the level of retard. This is so called "absolute truth" about the matter.

People, who are lacking the ability to comprehend things in normal life, try to argument things which puzzle even scientists. Do you understand the "big bang" theory? I mean complete theory, all the thousands of pages which are included in it, those pages where is all the mathematics and little details? If you answer yes, you are liar, because on this earth is less than 10 000 people who are able to understand it completely. That is the higher power what you are talking about, power of higher IQ. Everything else comes from the fact, that internet is paradise for stupid people, because it gives them the possibility to argue these kind of things without any knowledge what so ever 

[Ropo]

Deep breath. You do know that there is much more evidence for Jesus than there is for any other historical figure, don't you? Again, I have dealt with Carrier previously. The man is an unqualified buffoon. Imagine what you would say about someone who claimed that the existence of the Roman Empire was highly improbable by applying Bayes Theorem to history. No serious scholar controverts the historicity of Christ; plainly Carrier only does so because he is an evil lying atheist. Honestly, how naive and stupid can you be to fall for his bloody bosh?

Is there? Then it would be easy to you to present 1 de facto evidence about Jesus. 1 concrete evidence, that is all I ask. Shouldn't be any problem there, even if we doesn't include known fakes like the shroud of Turin..

[Immortal_Technique]

think about that.

yeah i know you did, right?

you are out of your league.

I think believing in things which there is proof of makes more sense than believing in things there is no proof of. I don't think that's a contradiction. By believing in things with no proof our whole justice system collapses.

I appreciate conversely there is no proof that gods and ghosts and goblins don't exist, but this is the reality of our world. Proof + physics = stuff that exists. That probably sounds narrow minded to all the father christmas worshippers, but the fact is, your parents lied to you from a young age and you bought it.

[ChuckleHead]

So, because you are too stupid to understand what the world is all about, there has to be some higher power, to help your incompetent brains to get a grip at things? This is the main problem what comes about understanding reality: MOST OF US ARE TOO STUPID TO DO SO. Let me explain: Highest IQ's what has been measured are ~230 point. Average IQ in USA is 93. When smartest part of people are over 200 points, how we get the average as low it is, while we know that level of official retard is 60 points? For every high IQ  there is hundreds of thousands of sub par IQ's, whose intelligence is bit more than the level of retard. This is so called "absolute truth" about the matter.

People, who are lacking the ability to comprehend things in normal life, try to argument things which puzzle even scientists. Do you understand the "big bang" theory? I mean complete theory, all the thousands of pages which are included in it, those pages where is all the mathematics and little details? If you answer yes, you are liar, because on this earth is less than 10 000 people who are able to understand it completely. That is the higher power what you are talking about, power of higher IQ. Everything else comes from the fact, that internet is paradise for stupid people, because it gives them the possibility to argue these kind of things without any knowledge what so ever 

guess you got it all figured out. clearly you must be one of those above 200 IQs.

where did you learn all this?

[ChuckleHead]

I think believing in things which there is proof of makes more sense than believing in things there is no proof of. I don't think that's a contradiction. By believing in things with no proof our whole justice system collapses.

I appreciate conversely there is no proof that gods and ghosts and goblins don't exist, but this is the reality of our world. Proof + physics = stuff that exists. That probably sounds narrow minded to all the father christmas worshippers, but the fact is, your parents lied to you from a young age and you bought it.

of course believing in things for which there is proof makes a ton of sense.
like there is proof that there is so much we don't know.
that unknown information counts, it goes to defining what reality actually is.

to ONLY believe in that which there is proof for, knowingly omits those things which are real but not yet provable.

if this was 1491 you'd believe the world was flat and you'd tell round worlders they believe in fairy tales. then the next year, you pronounce yourself a round worlder.

it might be prudent to go about daily life as if it were flat, but you still would have been wrong.

one can conclude the world ends at the horizon and they can get along just fine like that. but they'd be wrong.

you think you know but YOU just accept what is told to you.

the world is flat until it isn't, the earth is the center of the universe until it isn't, the sun revolves around the earth until it doesn't....... YOU wait to be informed of what YOU think.

[Automation]

You have to feel sorry for those that still believe in thousands of years old fairy stories...

Bunch of retarded ingrates. It's time they Falconised and got them self some learnings.

[obsidian]

So, because you are too stupid to understand what the world is all about, there has to be some higher power, to help your incompetent brains to get a grip at things? This is the main problem what comes about understanding reality: MOST OF US ARE TOO STUPID TO DO SO. Let me explain: Highest IQ's what has been measured are ~230 point. Average IQ in USA is 93. When smartest part of people are over 200 points, how we get the average as low it is, while we know that level of official retard is 60 points? For every high IQ  there is hundreds of thousands of sub par IQ's, whose intelligence is bit more than the level of retard. This is so called "absolute truth" about the matter.

People, who are lacking the ability to comprehend things in normal life, try to argument things which puzzle even scientists. Do you understand the "big bang" theory? I mean complete theory, all the thousands of pages which are included in it, those pages where is all the mathematics and little details? If you answer yes, you are liar, because on this earth is less than 10 000 people who are able to understand it completely. That is the higher power what you are talking about, power of higher IQ. Everything else comes from the fact, that internet is paradise for stupid people, because it gives them the possibility to argue these kind of things without any knowledge what so ever 

Even the smartest people in the world have no clue how to create a Universe with all the forces in it. They can observe it, but they can't create it. Ask the smartest person in the world how he would create the hydrogen element out of nothing prior to the existence of the Universe.

You say there are 10, 000 people that understand the Universe completely. I say there are zero people that understand it completely.

[Howard]

I believe in the GOD of quads  and worship weekly at the squat rack.

[obsidian]

You have to feel sorry for those that still believe in thousands of years old fairy stories...

Bunch of retarded ingrates. It's time they Falconised and got them self some learnings.

Forget the fairy tales. You can believe in a Creator but not metaphors. Just realize the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, the Earth 4.5 billion, and you are not even 50 years old right? But you know for a fact there is no Creator, even though there are designs in nature all around you? And the Universe is a Design.

Maybe you're the retard?

[Teutonic Knight]

'obsidian' = El Presidente of the Flat Earth Society


 
 

[Erik C]

Even the smartest people in the world have no clue how to create a Universe with all the forces in it. They can observe it, but they can't create it. Ask the smartest person in the world how he would create the hydrogen element out of nothing prior to the existence of the Universe.

You say there are 10, 000 people that understand the Universe completely. I say there are zero people that understand it completely.

Well, my IQ is only 175, but how I'd create a hydrogen atom, is from subatomic particles that did exist before the Big Bang. You're welcome.

[Ron Harrigan]

Oh my fu*king god...... 

Reality is quite the bitch (like you), isn't she?

[Howard]

Well, my IQ is only 175, but how I'd create a hydrogen atom, is from subatomic particles that did exist before the Big Bang. You're welcome.

If you have an actual legit  IQ of 175, my dick is 15" long and your mom is sucking hard

[Automation]

Forget the fairy tales. You can believe in a Creator but not metaphors. Just realize the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, the Earth 4.5 billion, and you are not even 50 years old right? But you know for a fact there is no Creator, even though there are designs in nature all around you? And the Universe is a Design.

Maybe you're the retard?

You, my friend, are dumb as fuck. That is my argument in its entirety.