Author Topic: Drug-Free Natural Genetic Limits (what really is possible) (Read 63333 times)

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2015, 10:46:04 AM »

Quote from: thegamechanger on February 03, 2015, 10:28:42 AM

i guess according to that list chuck liddell could never have fought at 205.

That look like a lean midsection to you?

Guys here just can't accept how light they would be truly lean and natty.

gettingbetter · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2015, 10:49:57 AM »

getting very lean is hard when you are natty.... At 5'8, I can say those charts are about right.... Getting from 8 to 5-6% is where you lose a lot of muscle and it is kind of discouraging....

The True Adonis · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2015, 10:52:29 AM »

Quote from: Soul Crusher on February 03, 2015, 10:13:08 AM

Bullshit list

Eat Heavy - Lift HEAVY

Repeat for years and years - then dial back = muscles .

I did that and it really did not make much of a difference. Sure I was able to throw around big weights (not that good compared to my bodyweight). When dieted down, not much, was gained. Certainly no more had I stayed lean and not intentionally force fed myself.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2015, 10:57:17 AM »

Quote from: The True Adonis on February 03, 2015, 10:52:29 AM

I did that and it really did not make much of a difference. Sure I was able to throw around big weights (not that good compared to my bodyweight). When dieted down, not much, was gained. Certainly no more had I stayed lean and not intentionally force fed myself.

But if you did nothing at all - where would you be?

thegamechanger · « **Reply #29 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:09:36 AM »

Quote from: Thin Lizzy on February 03, 2015, 10:46:04 AM

That look like a lean midsection to you?

max weight 194, lean was 182.
but yeah, chuck looks pretty lean here, and thats on fight day even a day after weigh-inns. you reckon he is 30 pounds or more from being lean here?

Wiggs · « **Reply #30 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:10:37 AM »

Quote from: Howard on February 03, 2015, 11:00:48 AM

Exactly!

I don't dispute that the chart is a good indicator of AVERAGE lean mass vs height at low body fat

But c'mon, this is no different than: height, IQ, speed, reaction time, longevity, etc.

For example, the avg ht of the NBA player would be quite different then the general population.
Strength and muscle mass can be enhanced by drugs but GENETICS is what separates the IFBB pros from Mr Podunk.

This

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #31 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:14:14 AM »

Quote from: Howard on February 03, 2015, 11:00:48 AM

Exactly!

I don't dispute that the chart is a good indicator of AVERAGE lean mass vs height at low body fat

But c'mon, this is no different than: height, IQ, speed, reaction time, longevity, etc.

For example, the avg ht of the NBA player would be quite different then the general population.
Strength and muscle mass can be enhanced by drugs but GENETICS is what separates the IFBB pros from Mr Podunk.

This is getting silly:

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #32 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:17:39 AM »

Quote from: thegamechanger on February 03, 2015, 11:09:36 AM

max weight 194, lean was 182.
but yeah, chuck looks pretty lean here, and thats on fight day even a day after weigh-inns. you reckon he is 30 pounds or more from being lean here?

This is a good example of 205 vs 185:

bigmc · « **Reply #33 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:41:09 AM »

don't forget to add 100lbs for get biggers

The True Adonis · « **Reply #34 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:42:14 AM »

Thin Lizzy destroying the naysayers with knowledge.

thegamechanger · « **Reply #35 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:59:26 AM »

Quote from: Thin Lizzy on February 03, 2015, 11:17:39 AM

This is a good example of 205 vs 185:

leaner to the left

MAXX · « **Reply #36 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:21:55 PM »

there is alot of genetic variation in humans. This chart is for the average genetics. A mesomorph can get abit heavier.

he probably made this chart based on his own progress. with average genetics for size.

Twaddle · « **Reply #37 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:33:10 PM »

Drug-Free, Natural, Genetic Limit. End of thread.

old-school-lifter · « **Reply #38 on:** February 03, 2015, 03:44:06 PM »

Quote from: Twaddle on February 03, 2015, 02:33:10 PM

Drug-Free, Natural, Genetic Limit. End of thread.

hahaha
ALL drugs and filt lies

The True Adonis · « **Reply #39 on:** February 03, 2015, 03:49:24 PM »

Quote from: Twaddle on February 03, 2015, 02:33:10 PM

Drug-Free, Natural, Genetic Limit. End of thread.

Ron Harrigan · « **Reply #40 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:05:04 PM »

Quote from: The True Adonis on February 03, 2015, 03:49:24 PM

Howard · « **Reply #41 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:06:40 PM »

Quote from: MAXX on February 03, 2015, 02:21:55 PM

there is alot of genetic variation in humans. This chart is for the average genetics. A mesomorph can get abit heavier.

he probably made this chart based on his own progress. with average genetics for size.

Bingo.

Howard · « **Reply #42 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:08:20 PM »

Quote from: The True Adonis on February 03, 2015, 11:42:14 AM

Thin Lizzy destroying the naysayers with knowledge.

Oh brotha...

Ron Harrigan · « **Reply #43 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:21:25 PM »

Quote from: Howard on February 03, 2015, 05:06:40 PM

Bingo.

Do you really think little Phil Heath has great muscle-building genetics? He would be a buck sixty off the sauce.

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #44 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:26:43 PM »

Quote from: Ron Harrigan on February 03, 2015, 05:21:25 PM

Do you really think little Phil Heath has great muscle-building genetics? He would be a buck sixty off the sauce.

Exactly, Phil Heath fighting in MMA at 185 would be dwarfed by bigger guys at that weight.

Howard,

No one is saying that there aren't genetic variations among people with regard to muscle building, but they're not as great as we'd like to believe. We're talking about a few pounds between average genetics and superior ones.

The True Adonis · « **Reply #45 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:45:28 PM »

Quote from: Howard on February 03, 2015, 05:41:13 PM

Ok, just google info on genetic variation in IQ and look at the standard deviation groupings within a bell curve.
THAT will give you a good idea of my position on human variance and frequency

The variance in height is accounted for.

So that kind of takes care of that. Why would you concern yourself anyways with the 0.01 percent of musculature in either direction? Why not focus on the aggregate of what is possible. That means more than having what is known as an argument around the margins.

Even if there was one person 230 lbs at 4 percent at 5`11 drug free (there isn`t), but lets just say there was. What bearing does that have on the rest of the billions of people on earth? None.

TheShape. · « **Reply #46 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:00:49 PM »

Everyone's different, that chart is just an assessment of average to poor genetics for bodybuilding.

Marty Champions · « **Reply #47 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:02:45 PM »

Quote from: Ron Harrigan on February 03, 2015, 05:05:04 PM

fuck uuuuu man adam is sa legend

The True Adonis · « **Reply #48 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:08:13 PM »

Quote from: TheShape. on February 03, 2015, 06:00:49 PM

Everyone's different, that chart is just an assessment of average to poor genetics for bodybuilding.

What percentage of people have beyond average to poor genetics?

Surely you don`t or anyone on this forum for that matter. (naturally speaking)

che · « **Reply #49 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:09:32 PM »

Quote from: Howard on February 03, 2015, 09:36:58 AM

I think that chart is more an avg.
I know plenty of lean, ripped looking dues who exceed that chart and play other sports .

As a high school sprinter, I didn't lift and was a lean 178lbs at 5'9".

I agree , Howard post some pics when you used to compete @ 190lbs , 5-6%bf ''lifetime natural ''