Drug-Free Natural Genetic Limits (what really is possible)

[falco]

[falco]

[disco_stu]

Sorry man, know a guy in high level natty, (lifetime) and surpasses those charts by a mile. But he is not the norm. For most.. The chart is kinda accurate.

yeah i know several.

one of them won mr junior australia back in the 1980s.

[FermiDirac]

That dude is a genetic anomaly, looking at those hands he must have some form of growth hormone problem.
I remember a youtube clip where he crushes walnuts with his index finger and thumb.  

Here it is

[The True Adonis]

There are limitations but post like this over exaggeratdo it. You have people who half ass it for years get no results. And now anyone better isnt natty.. before you can say that look at your own training. Chances are you dont give it 100%, probably drink, go out, party, miss gym days, bad nutrition, etc. While you hang out someone is training....
Not on the internet all day..
I know some half ass trainers are going to attack lol...

I always have trained extremely hard.  I give until I can barely breathe.  I don`t drink.  I don`t party.  I haven`t missed any days.  My nutrition is perfect and have logged it for years.  I can train at any time I want and do.

Yet the chart works for me and I have never seen anyone beat the chart. 

Hope this helps.

[thegamechanger]

"You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough."

Mae West

[Bevo]

a

Translation - I now have some scientific proof I have average genetic talent for building lean mass.
With all due respect TA, I think this chart is only good for what the avg guy can do.

Which is exactly the majority of people

Otherwise there would be tons of Arnold's, Ronnie's, wheelers, levrones, but guess what?? There's not

[The True Adonis]

Arnold was average as a Natural.  His children are average.

Both would fit the chart nicely.

[Tarantula157]

The charts are correct,at lest for 5'7" height.I've been training and strict dieting for many years,competed several times at 5% bf and can't get past these numbers.

[Rammstein]

[MAXX]

The charts are correct,at lest for 5'7" height.I've been training and strict dieting for many years,competed several times at 5% bf and can't get past these numbers.

yes your god given genetics must be the golden standard then  nobody has better genetics for putting on muscle.

[Thin Lizzy]

Okay, let's try this again.

Take a 175 guy with 12%bf. Put him on a weight training program and nothing else.

How much muscular weight can he gain without adding fat as well?
The average amount and the elite.

I say between 5-8 lbs. In other words, you're not moving up a weight class naturally without extra bf.

[Pray_4_War]

Oh look, it's wee man!

..and some dude with his shirt off.

[Thin Lizzy]

Why is it so hard to answer this question?

How much lean muscle can the average guy put on and how much can a gifted guy put on?

We're aware that Ronnie has better muscle genes than the average gym rat, but how much?

How much faster in the 100m dash is Usain Bolt than the average athletic guy in his prime? 25-30% maybe.

If this is also the case in muscle building than the difference is a few pounds and the chart is correct.

[Erik C]

Why is it so hard to answer this question?

How much lean muscle can the average guy put on and how much can a gifted guy put on?

We're aware that Ronnie has better muscle genes than the average gym rat, but how much?

How much faster in the 100m dash is Usain Bolt than the average athletic guy in his prime? 25-30% maybe.

If this is also the case in muscle building than the difference is a few pounds and the chart is correct.

There can't be any kind of accurate formula for figuring out how big any one guy can get, because there are too many variables to consider. It's much more than just genetics. It's also diet, exercise, rest, mindset, etc. You can have the best genes for bodybuilding (whatever those genes are, as they haven't been scientifically identified), and if your diet sucks, your exercise is stupid, your rest time is inadequate, and mindset nonexistent, then you won't get big in bodybuilding anyway.

[SuperTed]

The best sprinters are freaks just like the best bodybuilders.

I don't really know what lean muscle the avg dude can carry.
But neither does anyone else.

I know what I did as a bodybuilder and the pros blow me away so wtf.
Bottom line is that gifted bodybuilders can gain a lot more muscle then you realize.

BB's aren't genetic freaks. They are just guys with naturally good, lean and symmetrical physiques who respond well to gear. That requires having good genes no doubt but certainly nothing freakish.

Genetic freaks are men like Bolt and Phelps, not some oiled up guy posing in a thong.

[The True Adonis]

Why do people keep repeating the myth that Ronnie was so much better naturally.  Just a few months ago, with drugs and training and nutrition, his arms shrunk to 16-17 inches.  Ronnie is certainly not special unless on a ton of drugs.

[The True Adonis]

What if Bolt stripped down, oiled up and flexed after he won the 100 m  
I think we'd all have more respect for him as an athlete if he did.

Here's some hard won advice from an old douchebag.

Don't give much serious thought to the drugged vs natty question.
I did, for years and it drove me crazy and only pissed people off.

Brushing it under the rug and stopping because it makes people feel uncomfortable only stifles debate and does nothing to answer questions.  Best not to do any of that on any topic.

[The True Adonis]

TA, you don't know how much I agree with you on that.

BUT, alas, we are greatly outnumbered and outgunned ( pun intended).

I've always wanted to see drugs out of bodybuilding.
The problem is most bodybuilder types feel the same basic way on  the drug  issue:
1. Drugs have always been a part of bodybuilding. You can't have bodybuilding without drugs.
2. Without drugs , even the IFBB pros would look like swimmers.
3. Most natural guys will say that any guy bigger/better lies about using drugs.
 
Question - If most drug free and enhanced guys think : natural always equals sucky body...why would anyone want to get drugs out?

I think the best bodybuilders would still look great with little or no juice.
Of course, I think a classic, ripped body is the ideal.

My opinion is that drugs equal a sucky body.  I like the leaner and more angular look than the juiced, not as lean look seen on roiders.

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

[Tarantula157]

yes your god given genetics must be the golden standard then  nobody has better genetics for putting on muscle.

No one says I have elite genetics.The charts are about the average ones.
It's easy to comment about natural limits when you TREN hard and eat CLEN to GHet huge...Gosh!

[ritch]

Why do people keep repeating the myth that Ronnie was so much better naturally.  Just a few months ago, with drugs and training and nutrition, his arms shrunk to 16-17 inches.  Ronnie is certainly not special unless on a ton of drugs.

you can't be serious. Ronnie would take 3 months off training after the O and was still enormous. Ron Harris did a training with him and he was front squating outrageoius weights. He has downsized now but arms still bigger than what you claim.

So what is your point here exactly? You can make good points at times, but are sadly way off here. His size before pro was said to be natty, is that "non special" as you say?

[The True Adonis]

you can't be serious. Ronnie would take 3 months off training after the O and was still enormous. Ron Harris did a training with him and he was front squating outrageoius weights. He has downsized now but arms still bigger than what you claim.

So what is your point here exactly? You can make good points at times, but are sadly way off here. His size before pro was said to be natty, is that "non special" as you say?

Ronnie Coleman ‏@BigRonColeman

Trying my best to get these 17.2in arms bigger.

[The True Adonis]

Oh Looky here,
A white Lifetime Natural with bigger arms than a currently loaded drugged Ronnie Coleman. 

[ritch]

Ronnie Coleman ‏@BigRonColeman

Trying my best to get these 17.2in arms bigger.

Well then, guess I was wrong.
So what is your interest in him then? Why are you on his fan page?

[The True Adonis]

6 Feet at 170