Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide

[240 is Back]

is this the same 'source' that told fox news the cop in ferguson had a fractured orbital?

I remember FOX still had that news story up for months after it was proven false.

Sorry, but the word of a criminal trying to snitch his way out of charges doesn't mean much to me.  I trust the coroner much more.  LOL - suppose the criminal was telling us there was a brake test, would you believe him then too?  No, you only believe this criminal because he says what you want to believe.

Let's see... you believe this criminal over the word of a college-educated medical professional that blamed a sudden impact?   I guess the credentials of someone arrested > those of a medical examiner?  And yes, that criminal's story keeps changing Megyn Kelly admits?   LOL!!!

Sheesh, broscience all the way here.

[Dos Equis]

I guess this is more evidence that the cops beat this guy up, "broke something," etc. 

We all know what happened, police beat his ass, broke something, had an "oh shit!' moment and voila, the pressure hit and one of them blabbed on the other - rightfully so!

Some folks never get tired of being wrong. 

[240 is Back]

I guess this is more evidence that the cops beat this guy up, "broke something," etc. 

Some folks never get tired of being wrong. 

sorry, but conflicting statements from the same incarcerated criminal hardly counts as "evidence" when up against expert analysis from a trained medical worker. 

I trust the law, the govt, and the police - and NOT some lying-ass convict trying to fib his way into a plea.

[The Ugly]

sorry, but conflicting statements from the same incarcerated criminal hardly counts as "evidence" when up against expert analysis from a trained medical worker. 

I trust the law, the govt, and the police - and NOT some lying-ass convict trying to fib his way into a plea.

Damn rational post, what's gotten into you?

[240 is Back]

Damn rational post, what's gotten into you?

People on the right dutifully repeated lie after lie from the Ferguson PD, even when these lies about orbital bones and "about 20 or 30 feet" were disproven.  They're still repeating them.

In this case, the police/M.E./prosecutor are all saying the same thing - and suddenly republicans are Matlock, doubting everything "the system" has to say, and resorting to the word of some wishy washy convict with multiple versions of the story.

They don't get - it's totally cool to admit from time to time, that some cops do abuse people, and some cops do deny people medical attention.  Like in all walks of life, sometimes cops do screw up and lie about it, just like garbagemen knocking over mailboxes and driving off, etc.  it happens.   Cops are just people.

[Dos Equis]

sorry, but conflicting statements from the same incarcerated criminal hardly counts as "evidence" when up against expert analysis from a trained medical worker. 

I trust the law, the govt, and the police - and NOT some lying-ass convict trying to fib his way into a plea.

The medical examiner said this was an accident.  The only eyewitness provides no evidence that the "police beat his ass, broke something."  I have seen nothing yet that points to murder. 

But I have to keep in mind you are the same person who believes the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists to attack us on 9/11, fake plane crashes, kidnap and murder passengers and secretly dispose of their bodies, etc.

[Agnostic007]

I have not found where the ME stated the police caused the injury. Please post a link 240

[Dos Equis]

I have not found where the ME stated the police caused the injury. Please post a link 240

[Agnostic007]

Again, I would caution that we wait until the investigation is complete before drawing conclusions. Leaks or premature release of bits and pieces for or against the police only muddy the waters and build pre conceived beliefs that may not be based in fact 

[The Ugly]

People on the right dutifully repeated lie after lie from the Ferguson PD, even when these lies about orbital bones and "about 20 or 30 feet" were disproven.  They're still repeating them.

In this case, the police/M.E./prosecutor are all saying the same thing - and suddenly republicans are Matlock, doubting everything "the system" has to say, and resorting to the word of some wishy washy convict with multiple versions of the story.

They don't get - it's totally cool to admit from time to time, that some cops do abuse people, and some cops do deny people medical attention.  Like in all walks of life, sometimes cops do screw up and lie about it, just like garbagemen knocking over mailboxes and driving off, etc.  it happens.   Cops are just people.

Nevermind, dude. Wasn't following the narrative. Same ol' 240, but the irony here might be lost on you. You seem to be doing exactly what you criticize about your adversaries on the right.

[Dos Equis]

Again, I would caution that we wait until the investigation is complete before drawing conclusions. Leaks or premature release of bits and pieces for or against the police only muddy the waters and build pre conceived beliefs that may not be based in fact 

Exactly.  It is possible they murdered the guy, but that's what the evidence needs to tell us. 

[Agnostic007]

Exactly.  It is possible they murdered the guy, but that's what the evidence needs to tell us. 

Unless you really want it to turn out they murdered him, then I suppose you can put words in the examiners mouth and make statements from thin air about how they did.. 

[Dos Equis]

Unless you really want it to turn out they murdered him, then I suppose you can put words in the examiners mouth and make statements from thin air about how they did.. 

Stop attacking 240.   

[240 is Back]

Stop attacking 240.   

Stop attacking Agnostic007

[Skip8282]

The medical examiner said this was an accident.  The only eyewitness provides no evidence that the "police beat his ass, broke something."  I have seen nothing yet that points to murder. 

But I have to keep in mind you are the same person who believes the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists to attack us on 9/11, fake plane crashes, kidnap and murder passengers and secretly dispose of their bodies, etc.

Sounds more like you've got your mind made up, or at the very least, you desperately want them let off.  The only thing I know of about the ME is that the report hasn't been made public, but the Baltimore Sun presumably got a leaked copy.  And according to the ME, this was a homicide and the cops failed to take appropriate care of him.

IF, we are to believe the Baltimore Sun, then they failed to strap him in, gave him a rough ride, and repeatedly failed to provide medical attention when it was clearly obvious he needed it and was asking for it.  That's clearly depraved heart murder and that was clearly done by the cops.

I'm willing to accept that could be all wrong and we won't know until the report is released to the public, but I haven't seen yet where it's been characterized as a mere accident.


I also think we can drop any pretense that there will be any fairness in this whole fiasco.  The cops are already starting off with the deck stacked in their favor.  We've seen it time and again.
-juries favor cops
-judges favor cops
-these cops are being investigated by their cop buddies

And lets not forget that Freddie was poor, Black, used drugs, had priors so all the cop cheerleaders will be bringing that nonsense up.

Chances of an actual conviction = .0000000000000000004%

[Dos Equis]

Sounds more like you've got your mind made up, or at the very least, you desperately want them let off.  The only thing I know of about the ME is that the report hasn't been made public, but the Baltimore Sun presumably got a leaked copy.  And according to the ME, this was a homicide and the cops failed to take appropriate care of him.

IF, we are to believe the Baltimore Sun, then they failed to strap him in, gave him a rough ride, and repeatedly failed to provide medical attention when it was clearly obvious he needed it and was asking for it.  That's clearly depraved heart murder and that was clearly done by the cops.

I'm willing to accept that could be all wrong and we won't know until the report is released to the public, but I haven't seen yet where it's been characterized as a mere accident.


I also think we can drop any pretense that there will be any fairness in this whole fiasco.  The cops are already starting off with the deck stacked in their favor.  We've seen it time and again.
-juries favor cops
-judges favor cops
-these cops are being investigated by their cop buddies

And lets not forget that Freddie was poor, Black, used drugs, had priors so all the cop cheerleaders will be bringing that nonsense up.

Chances of an actual conviction = .0000000000000000004%

No, I don't have my mind made up and no I don't desperately want anyone to get off.  Nothing I've said in this thread supports those conclusions. 

I follow the evidence.  I haven't been following this closely, but what I've seen so far does not support a murder charge.

That said, I do believe the rush to charge them was politically motivated and the prosecutor does not appear unbiased.  That doesn't make the officers innocent or guilty, but may help explain why at least one was charged with murder.   

[Skip8282]

No, I don't have my mind made up and no I don't desperately want anyone to get off.  Nothing I've said in this thread supports those conclusions. 

I follow the evidence.  I haven't been following this closely, but what I've seen so far does not support a murder charge.

That said, I do believe the rush to charge them was politically motivated and the prosecutor does not appear unbiased.  That doesn't make the officers innocent or guilty, but may help explain why at least one was charged with murder.   

Meh...what I've just pointed out is that the ONLY evidence released so far is the supposedly leaked ME report and that supports a depraved heart murder charge.  So again, where are you getting that it was a mere accident, and the depraved heart is not supported?  Provided we're only going off of what is out in the public.

[240 is Back]

Sounds more like you've got your mind made up, or at the very least, you desperately want them let off.  The only thing I know of about the ME is that the report hasn't been made public, but the Baltimore Sun presumably got a leaked copy.  And according to the ME, this was a homicide and the cops failed to take appropriate care of him.

IF, we are to believe the Baltimore Sun, then they failed to strap him in, gave him a rough ride, and repeatedly failed to provide medical attention when it was clearly obvious he needed it and was asking for it.  That's clearly depraved heart murder and that was clearly done by the cops.

I'm willing to accept that could be all wrong and we won't know until the report is released to the public, but I haven't seen yet where it's been characterized as a mere accident.


I also think we can drop any pretense that there will be any fairness in this whole fiasco.  The cops are already starting off with the deck stacked in their favor.  We've seen it time and again.
-juries favor cops
-judges favor cops
-these cops are being investigated by their cop buddies

And lets not forget that Freddie was poor, Black, used drugs, had priors so all the cop cheerleaders will be bringing that nonsense up.

Chances of an actual conviction = .0000000000000000004%

your synopsis of Dos Equis is 100% correct.  He's resorted to trusting the ever-changing word of a convict over the M.E., the prosecutor, etc. 

Also you're probably right they'll be let off the hook.  Or plead out.  Always works out that way.  Doesn't mean they didn't brake test him or deny him medical attention when asked, just that they'll beat the rap. 

Dos equis probably still thinks OJ is innocent too?

[Dos Equis]

Meh...what I've just pointed out is that the ONLY evidence released so far is the supposedly leaked ME report and that supports a depraved heart murder charge.  So again, where are you getting that it was a mere accident, and the depraved heart is not supported?  Provided we're only going off of what is out in the public.

The ME said the only reason his death was classified as a homicide was the ME was told the guy should have been buckled up.  That doesn't support a murder charge.

The guy in the van apparently said Gray was banging his head against the wall.  

None of the evidence I've heard supports this kind of fabricated crap:

LOL I was screaming loudest, a week ago, that the police were on video dragging his already-limp ass to the van.  He didn't do it to himself.  I ranted about the bullshit blue shield.

And I called it bullshit when the police "leaked" the "anonymous" prisoner report that he was innocent.

We all know what happened, police beat his ass, broke something, had an "oh shit!' moment and voila, the pressure hit and one of them blabbed on the other - rightfully so!

Or maybe I just haven't seen it?  I'd like to review the video of the police "dragging his already-liimp ass to the van."  Has anyone seen it?

Or any evidence the "police his ass, broke something"?    

[Skip8282]

The ME said the only reason his death was classified as a homicide was the ME was told the guy should have been buckled up.  That doesn't support a murder charge.

The guy in the van apparently said Gray was banging his head against the wall. 

None of the evidence I've heard supports this kind of fabricated crap:

   

No, that's just selectively taking one part of it.  The ME said there were multiple acts of omission in both not securing him in AND failing to get him help on some 3 or 4 occasions. 

Seriously dude - you actually think it's appropriate not to secure somebody in a van when they have no way of stabilizing themselves?  Do you seriously think a grown, mature adult should even need a 'formal policy' to exercise that kind of good basic judgement?

We hold people accountable ALL the time.  But when it comes to cops, the cheerleaders want to defy even the most basic logic.

Let's not pretend that Freddie Gray was the first person ever that's been a physical pain in the ass.  Chances are, it's as old as the Baltimore PD.  And it's inexcusable that full grown, mature adults failed to take basic precautions to ensure an 'accident' did not occur.

[Dos Equis]

No, that's just selectively taking one part of it.  The ME said there were multiple acts of omission in both not securing him in AND failing to get him help on some 3 or 4 occasions. 

Seriously dude - you actually think it's appropriate not to secure somebody in a van when they have no way of stabilizing themselves?  Do you seriously think a grown, mature adult should even need a 'formal policy' to exercise that kind of good basic judgement?

We hold people accountable ALL the time.  But when it comes to cops, the cheerleaders want to defy even the most basic logic.

Let's not pretend that Freddie Gray was the first person ever that's been a physical pain in the ass.  Chances are, it's as old as the Baltimore PD.  And it's inexcusable that full grown, mature adults failed to take basic precautions to ensure an 'accident' did not occur.

Actually, the ME wasn't there and only repeated what he/she was told by the prosecutor's office about Gray not being buckled up, etc.  

No, I don't think a person should be handcuffed and placed in the back of a van without being secured.  Do I think that fact in and of itself should result in a murder charge?  Absolutely not.  

Give me facts showing the officers either caused his initial injury or knew he was injured, then intentionally or recklessly drove in a way to cause further injury, then we'll have something that supports a possible murder charge.  

[240 is Back]

Actually, the ME wasn't there

LOL and the arrested idiot with changing stories, he was there, so he's more credible!??

[Dos Equis]

LOL and the arrested idiot with changing stories, he was there, so he's more credible!??

LOL I was screaming loudest, a week ago, that the police were on video dragging his already-limp ass to the van.  He didn't do it to himself.  I ranted about the bullshit blue shield.

And I called it bullshit when the police "leaked" the "anonymous" prisoner report that he was innocent.

We all know what happened, police beat his ass, broke something, had an "oh shit!' moment and voila, the pressure hit and one of them blabbed on the other - rightfully so!

Where is the evidence of this? 

[Skip8282]

Actually, the ME wasn't there and only repeated what he/she was told by the prosecutor's office about Gray not being buckled up, etc. 

No, I don't think a person should be handcuffed and placed in the back of a van without being secured.  Do I think that fact in and of itself should result in a murder charge?  Absolutely not. 

Give me facts showing the officers either caused his initial injury or knew he was injured, then intentionally or recklessly drove in a way to cause further injury, then we'll have something that supports a possible murder charge. 

Uh yeah dude, just like every single other case in the criminal justice system, the ME was not there. 

As for the charge, it's 2nd degree and defined as reckless disregard for a persons life.

Again, full grown, responsible, mature adults put him in the back of van with no means of stabilizing himself.  That seems to be a reckless disregard for life.

I have little doubt that if some parent stuck their kid in the back of car who was unable to stabilize themselves and the kid died from getting bounced around, you would zero problem with the charge.

But, cops....gotta cover for them, lol.

[Skip8282]

Where is the evidence of this? 

Not hard to find, unless you really don't want to...

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