tbombz just got a bachelor's degree.

[pellius]

Why would anyone feel compelled to update Getbig on this idiot's waste of a life?

Who fucking cares what Aidsbomb is doing? It's pretty fucking obvious he will do anything and everything possible to avoid getting a fucking job.

I care. Many of us has witnessed Tbombz literally grow up on this board. From that chubby little kid on the motor bike to all the phases -- the tribulations of life, he has gone through. Like so many in his generation he so often seem just so lost and confused.  

I've had many discussions and debates with him over the years and there have been times that I truly despised him and other times where I felt sorry for him and his parents.  I really wish him well. He's not just some stranger for many of us that have been on this board for over a decade. And I do care what happens to him.

I remember so many of posts when he was just a kid. He was a good kid.

They grow up so fast.

.

He's not just some stranger to me and despite it all

[SF1900]

Because one is based on reality and the other fantasy.  Hope this helps.

In before MOS copy and pastes 300 quotes from the bible to prove God is real.  

[SF1900]

I care. Many of us has witnessed Tbombz literally grow up on this board. From that chubby little kid on the motor bike to all the phases -- the tribulations of life, he has gone through. Like so many in his generation he so often seem just so lost and confused.  

I've had many discussions and debates with him over the years and there have been times that I truly despised him and other times where I felt sorry for him and his parents.  I really wish him well. He's not just some stranger for many of us that have been on this board for over a decade. And I do care what happens to him.

I remember so many of posts when he was just a kid. He was a good kid.

They grow up so fast.

.

He's not just some stranger to me and despite it all

Yes, he grew into that bunny suit quite well.

[pellius]

Because the theist made the claim first of a divine god without proof. The secularist merely educate on the need for proof before claiming something to be true. Otherwise I can believe in gorillas flying on the backs of scorpions that created the dinosaurs as my 'truth' without offering proof.

I'm sorry friend but I believe you are mistaken. Religion is based on faith. Faith by definition is believing in something without proof. It is not a matter of faith that I believe the chair I'm sitting on will hold me up. I cannot prove that a  God created the universe. You cannot prove that it just suddenly appeared out of nothing.

There is evidence that one can claim supports their beliefs but in the end it's still just a belief. A leap of faith.

Your gorilla analogy reminded me of Beratrand Russell who was a literary mentor of mine back in my agnostic years. He said that he cannot prove that a China tea pot is revolving around the sun between Mars and Jupiter. He considered the existence of God to be just as likely.

[pellius]

Because one is based on reality and the other fantasy.  So one is based on honesty and the other deceit, which is ironic considering religions encouraging it's followers to be honest, so technically you can't be honest and a theist.  The only way to believe in obvious fantasy is to lie to yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean? What is the reality and what is the fantasy? Is the fantasy that there was a creator to all that we see and experience around us or is the fantasy that it all just exploded from nothing?

[pellius]

Yes, he grew into that bunny suit quite well.

That he did.

[Radical Plato]

I'm sorry friend but I believe you are mistaken. Religion is based on faith. Faith by definition is believing in something without proof. It is not a matter of faith that I believe the chair I'm sitting on will hold me up. I cannot prove that a  God created the universe. You cannot prove that it just suddenly appeared out of nothing.

There is evidence that one can claim supports their beliefs but in the end it's still just a belief. A leap of faith.

Your gorilla analogy reminded me of Beratrand Russell who was a literary mentor of mine back in my agnostic years. He said that he cannot prove that a China tea pot is revolving around the sun between Mars and Jupiter. He considered the existence of God to be just as likely.

Faith by definition is the domain of the irrational simple minded fool, hence the reason we can fool children into believing in a fat jolly bearded man who lives at the North Pole getting ready to deliver toys to all the children once a year.  The children have faith in the adults who for whatever reason never developed the moral fortitude to be honest to innocent children (probably because they were deceived by those they trusted and now carry on the tradition thinking it is OK).  

Now, just because the children have faith, does that make what they believe in true or rational, I mean I can't prove Santa doesn't exist right.  If as an adult I still claimed there was a Santa Claus I would be locked up in a mental asylum, but if millions of adults made the same claim it would be considered normal.  What a fucked up world we live in.

[Radical Plato]

I'm not sure what you mean? What is the reality and what is the fantasy? Is the fantasy that there was a creator to all that we see and experience around us or is the fantasy that it all just exploded from nothing?

I can see why you struggle with such concepts.  To clarify, one idea is based on observable and testable phenomena and also doesn't claim it is 100% true, merely a work in progress, a modifiable theory that can even be totally scrapped if better theories arise.  The other is obvious superstitious nonsense based on wishful thinking and linked to a period in human history when the majority of people couldn't even read and write and had little understanding of how the world around them worked.  One is helpful in human progress, one holds it back.  Hope this helps

[Radical Plato]

[Man of Steel]

This love thy neighbor stuff is absolute bullshit.  Humans aren't hardwired like that!  Humans have such a powerful self preservation instinct that over-rides pretty much everything. And those who persecute us represent a threat to our survival, so human  instinct is to NOT LOVE them, to be wary of them and if possible to annihilate them.  This is why I am suspicious of people who try and love thy enemy, they have to do some pretty deceptive and creative psychological back-flips to create such an illusion.  Such people are deceiving themselves, and are not to be trusted as they are out of touch with how they truly think and feel.

That's why Christ changes folks.   Lifts the veil so that we see with new eyes.

We become new creations and are wired to care for others.

You won't be able to grasp this though. ...that and your post is a troll post.

[polychronopolous]

That's why Christ changes folks.   Lifts the veil so that we see with new eyes.

We become new creations and are wired to care for others.

You won't be able to grasp this though. ...that and your post is a troll post.

2 Corinthians Chapter 5:17-21
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 6:56,57
 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

[calfzilla]

In before MOS copy and pastes 300 quotes from the bible to prove God is real.  

I can imagine sf1900 at church sitting, holding hands and praying with mos and tbombz.

[SF1900]

I can imagine sf1900 at church sitting, holding hands and praying with mos and tbombz.

I only pray to a jacked jesus

[The Ugly]

That is your choice. Unfortunately for you, you may never know that the person you hire or are working next to has HIV unless they decide to tell you. Considering your attitude about it, them confessing isn't likely. Also, it is illegal to not hire or fire someone because they are HIV positive. This disease qualifies as a disability under ADA standards.

Even, like, say, a butcher or sushi chef? With the sharp blades and whatnot. I don't know ...

[Army of One]

I care. Many of us has witnessed Tbombz literally grow up on this board. From that chubby little kid on the motor bike to all the phases -- the tribulations of life, he has gone through. Like so many in his generation he so often seem just so lost and confused.  

I've had many discussions and debates with him over the years and there have been times that I truly despised him and other times where I felt sorry for him and his parents.  I really wish him well. He's not just some stranger for many of us that have been on this board for over a decade. And I do care what happens to him.

I remember so many of posts when he was just a kid. He was a good kid.

They grow up so fast.

.

He's not just some stranger to me and despite it all

[pellius]

Faith by definition is the domain of the irrational simple minded fool, hence the reason we can fool children into believing in a fat jolly bearded man who lives at the North Pole getting ready to deliver toys to all the children once a year.  The children have faith in the adults who for whatever reason never developed the moral fortitude to be honest to innocent children (probably because they were deceived by those they trusted and now carry on the tradition thinking it is OK).  

Now, just because the children have faith, does that make what they believe in true or rational, I mean I can't prove Santa doesn't exist right.  If as an adult I still claimed there was a Santa Claus I would be locked up in a mental asylum, but if millions of adults made the same claim it would be considered normal.  What a fucked up world we live in.

There seems to be a very condescending tone and underlying hostility, and even anger, to those that don't share your beliefs. Why is that? People are condescending because they think they are better than others. Is that what you think? You are better and smarter than say, Physicist Max Planck, or the vast majority of Presidents of the US? The vast majority of people in the US? The vast majority of people in the world?

Often one feels hositility and even anger because they feel threatened or insulted. Do you feel threatened and insulted? If so, why? If not, why the anger?

You make claims as a matter of fact when it is demonstrably not true. When you say "faith by definition is the domain of the irrational simple minded fool" is just simply not true. That is your definition which includes your personal bias and hostility. You will find no formal definition that describes faith that way anywhere. Was William F. Buckley, a devout Catholic, a simple minded fool? Many would disagree with him on a variety of issues but his intellectual gravitas has never been in question.

Believing in something in which you have no concrete proof, faith, is quite common. We have a presidential campaign and all the contenders sincerely believe they will be president. I mean, why would you take such a tremendous undertaking if you thought that you will lose? But they have faith in themselves. The proof will come in November. Most will be proven that they were wrong.

But are they all irrational, simple minded fools?

Of course their "faith" is not based on a toss of a coin. They have reasons, good reasons, why they think they will win. I believe I have good reasons why I think there is a creator. I believe the secularist also has good reasons to believe what they believe. Carl Sagan said of that TV series back in the 1980's that it's either Matter that always existed or that there was a creator of that Matter. He believed in eliminating that one extra step. I don't.

No need to get angry or condescending. None of this can be proven. The question is what makes for a better world. And that is another subject for lively debate.

[pellius]

I can see why you struggle with such concepts.  To clarify, one idea is based on observable and testable phenomena and also doesn't claim it is 100% true, merely a work in progress, a modifiable theory that can even be totally scrapped if better theories arise.  The other is obvious superstitious nonsense based on wishful thinking and linked to a period in human history when the majority of people couldn't even read and write and had little understanding of how the world around them worked.  One is helpful in human progress, one holds it back.  Hope this helps

Again with the conscending comments. But, yes, I have always struggled with these concepts. This subject is one of the few issues that I take very seriously. How one views the world, their world view, their metaphysics; determines their ethics.

And again you make the claim that it is "obvious superstitious nonsense." It is not so obvious, my friend, and there are people on a much, much, higher intellectual plane than either you or I that would also disagree with you. The claims you make reflect your credibility and I'm not quite sure for now how serious you are with your posts or if you are just trolling. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

"One is helpful in human progress, one holds it back.  Hope this helps."

Actually no, this does  not help. You were not clear again which is which but I'm going to assume you mean that secularism advances the human race and religiousity stagnates or retards human progress.

I'm over fifty years old now and have seen society evolve and attitudes and beliefs change. As our culture has gotten more secular I don't believe that people have become more honest, more decent, more respectful, less crass and, that goodness and the value of being good has increased.

We've advance tremendously as far as technology and quality of life goes, but ethically and morally I don't think so.

Aristotle, who was considered the greatest intellect of his time would be totally lost in a College level calculus class. But he would more than hold his own, if not dominate, any discussion in Philosophy and Ethics.

My uncle lied about his age (16 years old) so he could join the Army and defend this country which was under a real threat. The sense of duty and responsibility of past generations I find astounding and inspiring. Most today find this dumb and people of that age brain washed suckers.

[SF1900]

There seems to be a very condescending tone and underlying hostility, and even anger, to those that don't share your beliefs. Why is that? People are condescending because they think they are better than others. Is that what you think? You are better and smarter than say, Physicist Max Planck, or the vast majority of Presidents of the US? The vast majority of people in the US? The vast majority of people in the world?

Often one feels hositility and even anger because they feel threatened or insulted. Do you feel threatened and insulted? If so, why? If not, why the anger?

You make claims as a matter of fact when it is demonstrably not true. When you say "faith by definition is the domain of the irrational simple minded fool" is just simply not true. That is your definition which includes your personal bias and hostility. You will find no formal definition that describes faith that way anywhere. Was William F. Buckley, a devout Catholic, a simple minded fool? Many would disagree with him on a variety of issues but his intellectual gravitas has never been in question.

Believing in something in which you have no concrete proof, faith, is quite common. We have a presidential campaign and all the contenders sincerely believe they will be president. I mean, why would you take such a tremendous undertaking if you thought that you will lose? But they have faith in themselves. The proof will come in November. Most will be proven that they were wrong.

But are they all irrational, simple minded fools?

Of course their "faith" is not based on a toss of a coin. They have reasons, good reasons, why they think they will win. I believe I have good reasons why I think there is a creator. I believe the secularist also has good reasons to believe what they believe. Carl Sagan said of that TV series back in the 1980's that it's either Matter that always existed or that there was a creator of that Matter. He believed in eliminating that one extra step. I don't.

No need to get angry or condescending. None of this can be proven. The question is what makes for a better world. And that is another subject for lively debate.

But are they all irrational, simple, minded fools?

Christian belief: If you eat shellfish on Friday, have sex before marriage, masturbate, have sex any other way but missionary style, God is going to send you to a pit of hell where you will be tortured forever and forever because you yanked your weiner.

Yes, that is irrational, simple, and stupid.

[pellius]

lol, blaming the atheist. Lets be real here: Most Christians are just as dishonest and immoral than atheists. Did you forget the priests raping little boys? lol at blaming secularism for the decline of morals. Can you show evidence of this? Or is it just your "hypothesis?"

There is no evidence to suggest that the moral decline is due to secularism.

I don't think that's true. The percentage of Priests seducing, not raping (and not little boys as that would be pedophilia and I hope you know the difference), is much lower than the general population. The percentage of crimes committed by Priest are quite a bit lower than the general population.

I do believe there is compelling evidence to show that the decline in morals is correlated to the declines in behavior. I will have to look up actually scientific evidence. And although in and of itself it is meaningless, I know I am a much better person knowing that I will have to answer for my behavior in this world.

Let me ask you something: say you were walking down a deserted street in a bad part of town by yourself and coming towards you were a group of say, 5 or 6 young adult males, of varied races, coming towards you. Would you be more cautious? More on your guard? A bit concerned for your safety?

BTW, I am not "blaming" atheist. I am blaming the cultural and moral decline of society due to the lack of a value system outside of one's self.

What do you do attribute the moral decline to?

[SF1900]

I don't think that's true. The percentage of Priests seducing, not raping (and not little boys as that would be pedophilia and I hope you know the difference), is much lower than the general population. The percentage of crimes committed by Priest are quite a bit lower than the general population.

I do believe there is compelling evidence to show that the decline in morals is correlated to the declines in behavior. I will have to look up actually scientific evidence. And although in and of itself it is meaningless, I know I am a much better person knowing that I will have to answer for my behavior in this world.

Let me ask you something: say you were walking down a deserted street in a bad part of town by yourself and coming towards you were a group of say, 5 or 6 young adult males, of varied races, coming towards you. Would you be more cautious? More on your guard? A bit concerned for your safety?

BTW, I am not "blaming" atheist. I am blaming the cultural and moral decline of society due to the lack of a value system outside of one's self.

What do you do attribute the moral decline to?

Secularism is often equated to atheism, so I know what you really meant. Secularism:  "does not display any belief or religion, regardless of their actual views. A secular institution is one that does not promote religion of any form." Again, we know you meant atheism.

"I do believe there is compelling evidence to show that the decline in morals is correlated to the declines in behavior."

I never said it wasnt. Re-read my original post. I said that a lack of morals and a decline in behavior had nothing to do with atheism.

[dyslexic]

.

He's not just some stranger to me and despite it all

Not to me either. I've actually met to him and spoken to him in person many times. He's not at all the "Facade" that he was on this board. Actually a very quiet, soft-spoken dude who listens when you speak.


We all put on internet facades, whether we like to admit it or not, there is a certain amount of automatic anonymity that comes with an internet forum profile. Not really much you can do to change it. There is no personal "in your face" contact... so easy to make it seem so...

[pellius]

Secularism is often equated to atheism, so I know what you really meant. Secularism:  "does not display any belief or religion, regardless of their actual views. A secular institution is one that does not promote religion of any form." Again, we know you meant atheism.

"I do believe there is compelling evidence to show that the decline in morals is correlated to the declines in behavior."

I never said it wasnt. Re-read my original post. I said that a lack of morals and a decline in behavior had nothing to do with atheism.

No, when I say secularism I mean secularism. I was very specific in using that term rather than atheism. I believe most people nowadays don't really give much thought to these issues so they don't really take any formal moral position. They don't think through whether or not they believe in a God or not. Not seriously. They  just live their lives. They just kind of wing it depending on their conscious and how they feel and want to be perceived. No real formal, thought through, moral position is taken.

You did not answer my question to the scenario given.

And I said the lack of values has to do with the lack of a coherent value system outside of yourself. It was very intentional that I did not say atheism. Instead of trying to interpret that you "know what I mean" just go by what I actually say  as to what I mean. I would be very agreeable to clarifying anything if you think I am implying more than what I say.

[SF1900]

No, when I say secularism I mean secularism. I was very specific in using that term rather than atheism. I believe most people nowadays don't really give much thought to these issues so they don't really take any formal moral position. They don't think through whether or not they believe in a God or not. Not seriously. They  just live their lives. They just kind of wing it depending on their conscious and how they feel and want to be perceived. No real formal, thought through, moral position is taken.

You did not answer my question to the scenario given.

And I said the lack of values has to do with the lack of a coherent value system outside of yourself. It was very intentional that I did not say atheism. Instead of trying to interpret that you "know what I mean" just go by what I actually say  as to what I mean. I would be very agreeable to clarifying anything if you think I am implying more than what I say.

Thinking of a God is not tied to any moral position that cannot be accounted for by someone who does not believe in a God.

[pellius]

Thinking of a God is not tied to any moral position that cannot be accounted for by someone who does not believe in a God.

I agree.

I believe that when one considers themselves an atheist they are taking a concerted theological position.  I don't consider the same with a secularist. Many don't even know what a secularist is. I simply  give them that label by default. This is not to say that all secularist don't give any thought to these issues.

Again, unless there is some personal reasons you choose not to, what is your answer to the scenario given.

[SF1900]

I agree.

I believe that when one considers themselves an atheist they are taking a concerted theological position.  I don't consider the same with a secularist. Many don't even know what a secularist is. I simply  give them that label by default. This is not to say that all secularist don't give any thought to these issues.

Again, unless there is some personal reasons you choose not to, what is your answer to the scenario given.

That scenario has nothing to do with the conversation.