Author Topic: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?  (Read 29840 times)

Hulkotron

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28212
  • I ate an entire box of popsicles the day prior
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2015, 07:08:43 AM »
"Gamesmanship" ::)

DroppingPlates

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 49987
  • Team Pocahontas
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2015, 07:11:41 AM »
61-year-old runner caught cheating in Marine Corps Marathon
By Rick Maese and Kelyn Soong

---

Fair play in the army? Not a single war has been won with this concept..

BlackMetallic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10538
  • I am Jack's lack of HRT skills
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2015, 10:41:54 AM »
Is it cheating if everyone else you are competing against is using as well?

oldgolds

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1538
Re: Can you help me understand...?
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2015, 08:27:56 AM »
What exactly are you disagreeing with?  Marion Jones was cheating plain and simple.  When she was called out her defense was not "I'm doing what everyone else is doing..."  She denied it with her penultimate breath.  Only after being boxed in and humiliated in a legal proceeding did she tearfully admit to cheating and apologize.

And she's still lying about it....Say's she only took em for a limited time etc...

phreak

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5084
  • Food is amazing
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2015, 09:26:12 AM »
You and several others (ritch, Coach, etc.) here have missed the point entirely.  You have proven that by focusing on PED and whether or not it can be definitively proven, "everyone's doing it" or arguing that the samples were tainted.  Why you have chosen to focus on this angle of it I don't know; perhaps you are feeling stung because of your own drug use?  In any case, it is not about PED.  It is about the mindset of a cheater.  Cheating can come in many forms that have nothing to do with drugs--like secretly exiting a race and reentering near the finish line.  Just a couple weeks ago a chess grandmaster was caught cheating during a tournament.  He would run to the bathroom after almost every move and use his iphone to cheat.

Chess grandmaster cheats in tournament ... from the bathroom
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/sport/chess-championship-cheating-in-bathroom/

Did he have a huge windfall waiting for him if he won?  Most cheaters are not doing it for cheers or a big payday.
Humans need recognition, peer approval. These are ways of getting that. To use a nonhuman example, do you think beta males in any species don't 'cheat' to climb the social ladder? They just don't delude themselves into complacency by rationalising their lack of effort, they unconsciously know that all means to an end should be used, and that there is nothing noble in making things harder and less effective than necessary.

BayGBM

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19434
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2016, 11:01:20 AM »
Femke Van den Driessche denies using motor at cyclo-cross World Championships
Belgian says bike belongs to a friend
by Cycling News

“I didn’t know anything about it. I don’t know how that bike got there. I was surprised to see that bike standing there. It’s not my bike. There’s been a mistake,” she told the Belgian broadcaster Sporza. “There was nothing in the bike that I used at the start of the race. I train hard for it too, you know. Then it’s no fun to be accused like this.

“If I would’ve been on a bike like that I would’ve been more consistent. I’ve always peaked towards those moments. I worked really hard for it. I haven’t got anything to say about it but it’s really terrible.”

The 19-year-old Van den Driessche found herself at the centre of a storm after the inaugural women’s under 23 race when the UCI found a motor inside the frame of her bike during routine checks. The Belgian press reported the finding of electrical cables in the seat post and a motor in the bottom bracket. She now faces at least a six-month ban and 20,000 Swiss franc fine, although the punishment could be much more severe than that.

“I hope they see the truth,” she said crying.

“I don’t know how it got there. I’m focused on myself on that day. I took care of myself. I was in front. At the back, the mechanics made a mistake,” Van den Driessche continued to profess her innocence. “They can check everything: all my cross bikes, all my road bikes. They will not find anything. I’m 100 per cent sure about it."

As Belgian and European under 23 champion, Van den Driessche had gone into the race as one of the favourites. Beset, perhaps ironically, by mechanical issues she didn’t play a part in it and was eventually forced to cross the line on foot because of them. Van den Driessche is also a former mountain bike junior national champion. When asked if this could spell the end of her young career Van den Driessche said, “yes, I think so.”

Van den Driessche offered up a potential reason for the bike’s presence, saying that it was owned by someone she’d been training with. “That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

She added when questioned if she would ever consider doing it. “I would never do it. It’s a sport I love very much.”

BayGBM

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19434
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2016, 11:07:04 AM »
Not buying it.  Any serious rider knows her own bike: the weight, the seating position, handle bars, even the pedals are all adjusted to fit your specific level of comfort for maximum performance.  The minute you get on a bike that isn't yours you know it. And if a motor is hidden inside the frame, you'd probably notice that too. 

She is just another cheater... and the crocodile tears do not help. ::)

bigmikecox

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14159
  • SAY MY NAME!!!!
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2016, 12:11:38 PM »
Baseball players took speed for YEARS. That isnt cheating? You think the Steelers and Raiders of the 70s were natural?  They are not giving back those Super Bowl rings!

ritch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10673
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2016, 12:18:42 PM »
Baseball players took speed for YEARS. That isnt cheating? You think the Steelers and Raiders of the 70s were natural?  They are not giving back those Super Bowl rings!

Like the "golden era of bb'ing" people love to hide drug use of past athletes to not downplay their achievements. Today, everyone is quick to shit on how guys use. Well, it's been going on much longer than "today's crop" we just openly know about it now.
?

chaos

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 57632
  • Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2016, 12:36:59 PM »
Not buying it.  Any serious rider knows her own bike: the weight, the seating position, handle bars, even the pedals are all adjusted to fit your specific level of comfort for maximum performance.  The minute you get on a bike that isn't yours you know it. And if a motor is hidden inside the frame, you'd probably notice that too. 

She is just another cheater... and the crocodile tears do not help. ::)
WYHI?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

BayGBM

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19434
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2016, 12:56:17 PM »

Tha Grim Lifter

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2016, 03:06:07 PM »
Bay seems to be focusing on those that were caught out. Everyone uses. Anyone natural even with amazing genetics isn't competiting at top level sports anymore except maybe things like Tennis or a few others. That's reality. The ability of what was able to be accomplished naturally was surpassed years ago. Focusing on someone like Ben Johnson who trained smarter and obviously had better genetics than the rest of his field is insane, they were all on gear just because they didn't get caught means nothing.

DroppingPlates

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 49987
  • Team Pocahontas
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2016, 03:51:49 PM »
The use of the term 'cheaters' is soooo gay....



oh wait :D

wes

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 65580
  • What Dire Mishap Has Befallen Thee
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »
EVERYBODY is on some performance enhancing agent in the majority of todays professional sports.


To believe otherwise would simply make one naive.

Bevo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18724
  • Middle Urinal at Buc-ee’s
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2016, 05:19:22 PM »
No.  But I don't think it is a sport or a real competition either... so it's all good.  If I had to filter this through the world of bodybuilding I would point to the guys who compete in "natural" shows when they are obviously not natural.  Where is the satisfaction in "winning" a show like that?  I admit I don't get the natural circuit.  Nor do I understand guys who say they hate steroids yet hang out (for years) in bodybuilding forums.


So there u have it, since u don't think pro bbing is a real sport or competition it isn't cheating in your own mind and is justified  :D

DroppingPlates

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 49987
  • Team Pocahontas
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2016, 12:29:19 AM »
EVERYBODY is on some performance enhancing agent in the majority of todays professional sports.


To believe otherwise would simply make one naive.

I don't take kindly to disrespect. not on the internet, not in person, not in a grocery store parking lot, not in like at walmart, not in a restaurant, not at the beach, not at the dry cleaners... anywhere.

blahdy blah, blahdy blah, blahdy blah...

...the guy who's willing to go the furthest, wins. if you're not willing to go all the way, it's best you keep your mouth shut and move on, and make it to the next day....

Coffeed

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Athletes representative for Grifted Nutrition.
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2016, 01:21:14 AM »
Baseball players took speed for YEARS. That isnt cheating? You think the Steelers and Raiders of the 70s were natural?  They are not giving back those Super Bowl rings!
Baseball players?

Athletes in general.

Even in "modern" times Pat Riley has mentioned in interviews to taking greenies as an athlete. You just "suck it up" and play.

The best of the best are usually super competitors. People with talent don't seem to be in the elite unless they are hungry for "more."

NordicNerd

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 921
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2016, 03:00:16 AM »
...

I played many sports while growing up, but maybe I am missing some sports minded gene that allows these folks to rationalize their cheating.  Do you understand it?  


I am quite sure the rationale is that they believe their competitors also cheated, hence it was fair.

NN

Coffeed

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Athletes representative for Grifted Nutrition.
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2016, 03:39:40 AM »
Look at people like Lance Armstrong. After watching one documentary you just get the feeling the guy would do absolutely anything to win. If he were a businessman he would be Bernie Madoff.

Ken Fresno

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2016, 05:28:29 AM »
Look at people like Lance Armstrong. After watching one documentary you just get the feeling the guy would do absolutely anything to win. If he were a businessman he would be Bernie Madoff.

Lance has the ultimate winners mentality. This video shows what a beast he was, at no point does he even consider failure:


Radical Plato

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12879
  • Rhetoric is the art of ruling the minds of men.
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2016, 06:29:33 AM »
Lance has the ultimate winners mentality. This video shows what a beast he was, at no point does he even consider failure:


Fuck the haters. Lance is an absolute legend.
V

OB1

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3222
  • "Happiness equals reality minus expectations."
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2016, 06:37:48 AM »
Cheaters: no guts, no glory, no character, no honesty whatsoever...
©

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22251
  • SC è un asino
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2016, 07:06:08 AM »

Athletes in general.



The best of the best are usually super competitors. People with talent don't seem to be in the elite unless they are hungry for "more."

x1000.

It's always why I laugh when people romanticize the past players as "playing for the love of the game".   They were super competitive too, and would have taken all the stuff they have today had it been available.
Y

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2016, 07:07:10 AM »
Captain Kirk cheated.  Captain Kirk always wins.

oldgolds

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1538
Re: the Cheaters: can you help me understand...?
« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2016, 07:19:57 AM »
This is the reason why I built my body without drugs.