Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1131113 times)

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10625 on: March 31, 2024, 03:38:10 AM »
I personally am super bullish on Ethereum. The new Dencun upgrade has been a success. Coinbase's ETH L2 is setting records!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-ethereum-layer-2-base-record-dex-volume

As far as Ethereum's commodity or security status. Think about this. Ethereum Futures are listed on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME). That exchange does not list securities at all. So if ETH was a security, then how the hell can its futures be listed on a commodity exchange? Also note that the ETH futures were approved after Ethereum made the switch to Proof Of Stake, and after the April 2023 Shanghai upgrade that allowed unstaking. The Howey Test also falls flat on its face when it comes to solo ETH staking validators. People who operate these solo stakers have to put sweat and equity in to acquire the hardware, ETH collateral, electricity, internet access, a secure building, etc. The validator requires maintenance and updates on a regular basis. Direct work is being performed by the staker to participate in the consensus function of the Ethereum Network. This role is really no different that a Proof of Work miner, in fact I would say there are more steps involved with staking. 32 ETH has to be acquired, and there are penalties if a validator goes offline or the hardware fails. There is no way the SEC would be able to male the argument that validators are expecting a profit based on the work of others, The validators are literally the ones doing the work!

There are plans to make solo staking easier and more attainable for everyone. Buterin has mentioned using a cell phone as a validator. It sounds like a great idea, if they are able to implement it effectively.

affeman

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10626 on: April 02, 2024, 01:20:40 AM »
I would think we will be well over 100K per BTC coin by March 2024. Once the demand squeeze happens, the spike will be insane, and self-fulfilling, and very fast.

Well over 100k by March 2024, right? :D :D

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10627 on: April 02, 2024, 01:40:08 AM »
Well over 100k by March 2024, right? :D :D

Correct - that's what I thought would be quite likely. We got around 74% of the way there...

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10628 on: April 02, 2024, 01:41:22 AM »
Well over 100k by March 2024, right? :D :D

Either way, we key of course is to accumulate, hodl, and let time do its thing, and the long term to the trend is up. 100 K will be here before you know it. Be patient young Jedi...

SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10629 on: April 02, 2024, 08:46:33 AM »
Either way, we key of course is to accumulate, hodl, and let time do its thing, and the long term to the trend is up. 100 K will be here before you know it. Be patient young Jedi...

Just scooped up a few more Satoshi’s!

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10630 on: April 02, 2024, 01:56:45 PM »
It appears that Ethereum is more resistant to attacks than Bitcoin. An Ethereum attacker would first have to acquire enough Ethereum. The problem is as they start accumulating the price goes up. Eventually it would become very expensive. Let's say it is a State Actor with vast resources. The Ethereum community and developers would first of all notice something is afoot. Once all that Ethereum has been acquired, it needs to be configures as validators. That also requires hardware, electricity, internet, etc. Not to mention the attackers' Ethereum would be slashed as a penalty for their dishonest validators.

A post from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/11duz5f/is_ethereum_more_secure_than_bitcoin_at_this_point/

Both would require billions in fiat, but you're being stupid when thinking about how an attacker would get ASICs. They would build factories to produce them, not buy them from the market.

Lets work out their budget, how much could they spend and still be less than attacking Ethereum? So there is currently about 17 million ether staked. That works out to about $28 billion. To be equivalent to a 51% attack on PoW, an Ethereum attacker would need 2/3rds of the total stake, meaning double the current amount staked... $56 billion (assuming that the price is unchanged despite buying vastly more ether than is liquid anywhere).

For that amount of money you could build 10-20 Tesla gigafactories and still have plenty of billions left for expenses.

It is very silly to build your argument on the idea that ASICs are a limited resource and think that security comes from there not being enough for sale. That is true for ether, an attacker has literally no way to produce their own, they have to buy it from the market. That is not true for ASICs when we're talking about these amounts of money.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The $28 billion figure for 17 million ETH is wrong. At current prices that over $54 billion. And the price will go up. Nobody will be able to buy 17 million ETH in one transaction. The orders can't be filled. They would have to purchase in increments and the cost would increase to probably over $1 trillion dollars. And the ETH community will realize something is up.

https://unchainedcrypto.com/51-attacks-on-bitcoin-and-ethereum-impossible-coinmetrics/

Attacking Ethereum Costs More Than an Attack on Bitcoin: CoinMetrics
The cost to attack Bitcoin ranges from $5 billion to $20 billion, while it would cost over $34 billion to attack Ethereum, according to CoinMetrics. Even then, researchers found no way for the attacker to profit and the network would still survive.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I would say it would cost a lot more than $34 billion to attack Ethereum. The price would shoot up significantly as the attacker tries to acquire more ETH.

Marty Champions

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10631 on: April 02, 2024, 06:42:45 PM »
Go get cha bitchcoin while spplies last whole net profit of 1% year over year  fakecoin bitchcoin
A

AbrahamG

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10632 on: April 02, 2024, 08:22:55 PM »
Go get cha bitchcoin while spplies last whole net profit of 1% year over year  fakecoin bitchcoin

Soar high oh Falcon.  Soar high.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10633 on: April 03, 2024, 01:10:47 AM »
Go get cha bitchcoin while spplies last whole net profit of 1% year over year  fakecoin bitchcoin

Zoom out. Man up. And BTFD.

Up over 1200% since this thread started. And up 138% over the last year (not 1%).

Buy, stack and chill young jedi. In time you will understand...

Marty Champions

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10634 on: April 03, 2024, 07:38:19 AM »
Zoom out. Man up. And BTFD.

Up over 1200% since this thread started. And up 138% over the last year (not 1%).

Buy, stack and chill young jedi. In time you will understand...
price has fallen to 2018 level , brilliant!

Hasnt done anything in 6 years but go down, if you cash out thats 30 percent in taxes so youre at a net loss or you dont pay the tax and go to jail
A

Marty Champions

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10635 on: April 03, 2024, 07:46:41 AM »
If you invest 10k and cash out if it goes to 12k youve made a whopping 1k if that
A

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10636 on: April 03, 2024, 08:22:30 AM »
price has fallen to 2018 level , brilliant!

Hasnt done anything in 6 years but go down, if you cash out thats 30 percent in taxes so youre at a net loss or you dont pay the tax and go to jail

If you claim you made your entire investment into BTC on exactly 12 November 2021, you are either a liar, a fool, (or incredibly unlucky). And even if you did, had you just kept DCA'ing you would be well up (indeed as you would be had you just DCA'd from at any time after this thread started).

Second, in general we don't "cash out", going from a supreme asset, to back to declining fiat currency. We hodl and stack and chill. But either way, any Bitcoiner of any substance either lives in a jurisdiction where no capital gains is paid, or finds ways to hold freedom money in a way that the Government is not aware who owns it (unless of course they want to pay taxes, which is always their choice). Further, such taxes you mention, are imposed in the US on all asset classes, (all of which BTC has outperformed over since the start of this thread).

Stop making a fool out of yourself, learn more about Bitcoin (and improve your spelling and grammar). All these tips will help bring you success.


a_pupil

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10637 on: April 03, 2024, 08:51:21 AM »
If you claim you made your entire investment into BTC on exactly 12 November 2021, you are either a liar, a fool, (or incredibly unlucky). And even if you did, had you just kept DCA'ing you would be well up (indeed as you would be had you just DCA'd from at any time after this thread started).

Second, in general we don't "cash out", going from a supreme asset, to back to declining fiat currency. We hodl and stack and chill. But either way, any Bitcoiner of any substance either lives in a jurisdiction where no capital gains is paid, or finds ways to hold freedom money in a way that the Government is not aware who owns it (unless of course they want to pay taxes, which is always their choice). Further, such taxes you mention, are imposed in the US on all asset classes, (all of which BTC has outperformed over since the start of this thread).

Stop making a fool out of yourself, learn more about Bitcoin (and improve your spelling and grammar). All these tips will help bring you success.

Where do you take out your monthly "wage" from?

Eventually I'm hoping to sell my [roids] business, dump it all into investments and retire. Do you keep stocks to take an income from or do you take money out of crypto?

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10638 on: April 03, 2024, 09:01:46 AM »
price has fallen to 2018 level , brilliant!

Hasnt done anything in 6 years but go down, if you cash out thats 30 percent in taxes so youre at a net loss or you dont pay the tax and go to jail

Falcon is no longer soaring  :-[

Price is more than 3 times higher than 2018 level

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10639 on: April 03, 2024, 09:04:58 AM »
Where do you take out your monthly "wage" from?

Eventually I'm hoping to sell my [roids] business, dump it all into investments and retire. Do you keep stocks to take an income from or do you take money out of crypto?

Do it the MattC way. Add some rental properties to your investment portfolio if you have a relatively stress free way of doing it.

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10640 on: April 03, 2024, 09:14:42 AM »
Well over 100k by March 2024, right? :D :D

You were the one screaming the price was going to zero because it's all tulips. He was far more accurate in his prediction than you.

My man you lost this. You made zero here and he added considerably to his wealth and yet you try take a victory lap? More evidence you are a full on retard!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10641 on: April 03, 2024, 11:08:10 AM »
You were the one screaming the price was going to zero because it's all tulips. He was far more accurate in his prediction than you.

My man you lost this. You made zero here and he added considerably to his wealth and yet you try take a victory lap? More evidence you are a full on retard!

Ha ha - well said Flex!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10642 on: April 03, 2024, 11:10:12 AM »
Where do you take out your monthly "wage" from?

Eventually I'm hoping to sell my [roids] business, dump it all into investments and retire. Do you keep stocks to take an income from or do you take money out of crypto?

Me personally? Yes I have stocks and property for income. And a reasonable chunk of cash always on hand. But my gold and my Bitcoin I simply just hodl, with no intention of selling.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10643 on: April 03, 2024, 03:12:15 PM »
So it begins. SEC is asking for ETH ETF comments. Ethereum Futures are already trading on commodity exchanges like the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME). If it was deemed a security the SEC would never have even allowed that.

Some people are also saying the lack of engagement between the SEC and ETH Spot applicants indicates that the ETH Spot approvals will not happen. Well, could it be that the engagement already occurred with the Bitcoin Spot ETFs? The ETH Spot applicants already modeled their applications based on what was learned during the Bitcoin Spot applications. The engagement with the SEC already occurred. The lack of engagement now does not mean the ETH Spot applications are dead on arrival.

https://decrypt.co/224693/ethereum-spot-etf-public-comment-period-sec

SEC Calls for Comments on Three Proposed Ethereum ETFs

A number of high-profile fund managers are hoping to get the green light from the regulator next month.

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is asking the public to comment on three proposed Ethereum exchange-traded funds (ETFs)—the latest movement from the regulator for the much-anticipated investment products.

After issuing a series of delays in its decision making on Ethereum spot ETFs, Wall Street’s top regulator said Tuesday that Grayscale Investments, Fidelity, and Bitwise are now subject to a three-week comment period.

This is a standard part of the procedure for fund managers seeking approval from the SEC for an ETF, and the same thing happened with the spot Bitcoin ETF applications—U.S. citizens and organizations wrote to the SEC voicing their respective opinions on the proposed investment products.

All three fund managers have proposed a spot ETH ETF to the regulator. The idea would be that they would hold ETH and sell shares that track the asset's price.

In January, the SEC approved 11 spot Bitcoin (BTC) ETFs, allowing them to trade after a decade of denials. The investment vehicles now trade on stock exchanges and give traditional investors the ability to buy shares that track the price of the cryptocurrency.

And with huge inflows, they have been hugely popular.

Many of the same fund managers are now trying to get approval from the regulator to do the same with ETH, the second biggest digital coin by market cap.

British multinational bank Standard Chartered said in a January report that it expected ETH ETFs to get approval from the SEC by the May deadline.

However, industry analysts have since said that the regulator's approval of the products is less likely, and posited that a delay that puts space between Bitcoin and Ethereum spot ETFs would be a good thing.

The price of ETH now stands slightly below that at $3,314, per CoinGecko data. Unlike BTC, it is still very far off its 2021 all-time high of $4,878.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10644 on: April 03, 2024, 03:22:17 PM »
Me personally? Yes I have stocks and property for income. And a reasonable chunk of cash always on hand. But my gold and my Bitcoin I simply just hodl, with no intention of selling.
You're doing it right. I think these are all solid moves you made and Bitcoin has proven to be the safest play during volatility. I do think you need to give Ethereum more credit though. What the thousands of ETH developers accomplished thus far is something else. It was extremely challenging to pull off the upgrades that were necessary to get it where it is now. The Cardanos and Solanas came a few years after Ethereum started the smart blockchain space and as such they were able to avoid significant upgrades that Ethereum required. Bitcoin is the father of Blockchains. Ethereum is the father of Smart Contract Blockchains. Both are very secure and as decentralized as they can be given their constraints. There's room for improvement sure. That's how it works with technology and networks.

SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10645 on: April 03, 2024, 05:20:08 PM »
You're doing it right. I think these are all solid moves you made and Bitcoin has proven to be the safest play during volatility. I do think you need to give Ethereum more credit though. What the thousands of ETH developers accomplished thus far is something else. It was extremely challenging to pull off the upgrades that were necessary to get it where it is now. The Cardanos and Solanas came a few years after Ethereum started the smart blockchain space and as such they were able to avoid significant upgrades that Ethereum required. Bitcoin is the father of Blockchains. Ethereum is the father of Smart Contract Blockchains. Both are very secure and as decentralized as they can be given their constraints. There's room for improvement sure. That's how it works with technology and networks.

But one is Proof of Work and the other is Proof of Stake

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10646 on: April 03, 2024, 08:50:34 PM »
But one is Proof of Work and the other is Proof of Stake
Correct. And the cost to attack a decentralized Proof of Stake decentralized network like Ethereum will actually be more than the cost to attack a decentralized Proof of Work network like Bitcoin. Not only would the attackers have to acquire sufficient Ethereum, they will also have to set up validators. The price of Ethereum will shoot up as they try to accumulate a sufficient number of ETH. The ultimate cost would be more than what is required to develop / build enough ASIC miners to take over 51% of the Bitcoin hashrate.

Here's a link where it is discussed. I think the numbers are off and conservative.

Proof Of Stake also has the added benefit of using less energy.

https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/51-percent-attack-cost-ethereum/

Cost to Attack Ethereum Network Higher than Bitcoin’s, Say Researchers

Revealing the True Cost of Compromising Blockchain Integrity: Insights from CoinMetrics

CoinMetrics’ research highlights the impracticality and high financial barrier to executing a 51% attack on Bitcoin and Ethereum.
An attack on Bitcoin could cost over $20 billion, while compromising Ethereum would exceed $34 billion, making these attacks economically unfeasible.
Despite concerns about Liquid Staking Derivatives (LSDs), the study shows they cannot be leveraged for network attacks, reinforcing the security of these blockchains.

According to recent findings by CoinMetrics, an on-chain analytics firm, carrying out a 51% attack on the Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains would not only be exorbitantly costly but also unprofitable and ineffective. These insights shed light on the robust security measures underpinning the two largest cryptocurrencies by market capitalization.

Understanding the 51% Attack Threat

A 51% attack, a potential threat in blockchain technology, involves a group of miners or entities gaining control of more than half of a network’s mining hash rate in Proof-of-Work (PoW) systems, or nodes in Proof-of-Stake (PoS) settings. This control could, theoretically, allow them to manipulate network transactions and double-spend coins. However, the size and strength of a network play a pivotal role in its security, making larger networks like Bitcoin and Ethereum less vulnerable to such attacks.

CoinMetrics’ research, led by Lucas Nuzzi, the head of research and development, quantifies the Total Cost to Attack (TCA) for both Bitcoin and Ethereum. The findings reveal that an attack on Bitcoin would require the purchase of approximately 7 million ASIC miners, a venture that could exceed $20 billion, significantly outweighing any potential gains from the attack. This cost estimation takes into account the market’s reaction to such a large-scale acquisition of ASICs.

The Prohibitive Costs of Attacking Bitcoin and Ethereum

Similarly, targeting Ethereum would be even more costly, estimated at over $34 billion. This figure is based on Ethereum’s current metrics, including its price, the total amount of staked ETH, and the number of validators. The complexity of carrying out such an attack on Ethereum is further compounded by its PoS mechanism, which has a churn limit preventing the immediate deployment of a large amount of stake, extending the time required for an attack to over six months.

Another aspect explored in the study is the potential risk posed by Liquid Staking Derivatives (LSDs), such as those offered by staking services like Lido and RocketPool. Lido, which controls a significant portion of staked ETH, poses a theoretical risk to Ethereum’s network security. However, Nuzzi clarifies that leveraging LSDs to manipulate block templates is not a viable strategy for attackers.

LSDs and Network Security: Dispelling the Myths

The research concludes that the costs associated with carrying out a 51% attack on either Bitcoin or Ethereum far outweigh any potential benefits. This economic disincentive, coupled with the technical challenges involved, makes such attacks highly improbable and reinforces the security and resilience of these leading blockchain networks. The findings provide reassurance to investors and participants in the cryptocurrency ecosystem about the robustness of these digital currencies against potential threats.

SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10647 on: April 04, 2024, 02:21:43 AM »
Correct. And the cost to attack a decentralized Proof of Stake decentralized network like Ethereum will actually be more than the cost to attack a decentralized Proof of Work network like Bitcoin. Not only would the attackers have to acquire sufficient Ethereum, they will also have to set up validators. The price of Ethereum will shoot up as they try to accumulate a sufficient number of ETH. The ultimate cost would be more than what is required to develop / build enough ASIC miners to take over 51% of the Bitcoin hashrate.

Here's a link where it is discussed. I think the numbers are off and conservative.

Proof Of Stake also has the added benefit of using less energy.

https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/51-percent-attack-cost-ethereum/

Cost to Attack Ethereum Network Higher than Bitcoin’s, Say Researchers

Revealing the True Cost of Compromising Blockchain Integrity: Insights from CoinMetrics

CoinMetrics’ research highlights the impracticality and high financial barrier to executing a 51% attack on Bitcoin and Ethereum.
An attack on Bitcoin could cost over $20 billion, while compromising Ethereum would exceed $34 billion, making these attacks economically unfeasible.
Despite concerns about Liquid Staking Derivatives (LSDs), the study shows they cannot be leveraged for network attacks, reinforcing the security of these blockchains.

According to recent findings by CoinMetrics, an on-chain analytics firm, carrying out a 51% attack on the Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains would not only be exorbitantly costly but also unprofitable and ineffective. These insights shed light on the robust security measures underpinning the two largest cryptocurrencies by market capitalization.

Understanding the 51% Attack Threat

A 51% attack, a potential threat in blockchain technology, involves a group of miners or entities gaining control of more than half of a network’s mining hash rate in Proof-of-Work (PoW) systems, or nodes in Proof-of-Stake (PoS) settings. This control could, theoretically, allow them to manipulate network transactions and double-spend coins. However, the size and strength of a network play a pivotal role in its security, making larger networks like Bitcoin and Ethereum less vulnerable to such attacks.

CoinMetrics’ research, led by Lucas Nuzzi, the head of research and development, quantifies the Total Cost to Attack (TCA) for both Bitcoin and Ethereum. The findings reveal that an attack on Bitcoin would require the purchase of approximately 7 million ASIC miners, a venture that could exceed $20 billion, significantly outweighing any potential gains from the attack. This cost estimation takes into account the market’s reaction to such a large-scale acquisition of ASICs.

The Prohibitive Costs of Attacking Bitcoin and Ethereum

Similarly, targeting Ethereum would be even more costly, estimated at over $34 billion. This figure is based on Ethereum’s current metrics, including its price, the total amount of staked ETH, and the number of validators. The complexity of carrying out such an attack on Ethereum is further compounded by its PoS mechanism, which has a churn limit preventing the immediate deployment of a large amount of stake, extending the time required for an attack to over six months.

Another aspect explored in the study is the potential risk posed by Liquid Staking Derivatives (LSDs), such as those offered by staking services like Lido and RocketPool. Lido, which controls a significant portion of staked ETH, poses a theoretical risk to Ethereum’s network security. However, Nuzzi clarifies that leveraging LSDs to manipulate block templates is not a viable strategy for attackers.

LSDs and Network Security: Dispelling the Myths

The research concludes that the costs associated with carrying out a 51% attack on either Bitcoin or Ethereum far outweigh any potential benefits. This economic disincentive, coupled with the technical challenges involved, makes such attacks highly improbable and reinforces the security and resilience of these leading blockchain networks. The findings provide reassurance to investors and participants in the cryptocurrency ecosystem about the robustness of these digital currencies against potential threats.


So hopefully Ethereum ETF is denied price drops and it’s a great buy opportunity!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10648 on: April 04, 2024, 06:24:27 AM »
Quote from: Marty Champions on April 03, 2024, 07:38:19 AM

"Hasnt done anything in 6 years but go down, if you cash out thats 30 percent in taxes so youre at a net loss or you dont pay the tax and go to jail?"

If you claim you made your entire investment into BTC on exactly 12 November 2021, you are either a liar, a fool, (or incredibly unlucky). And even if you did, had you just kept DCA'ing you would be well up (indeed as you would be had you just DCA'd from at any time after this thread started).

Second, in general we don't "cash out", going from a supreme asset, to back to declining fiat currency. We hodl and stack and chill. But either way, any Bitcoiner of any substance either lives in a jurisdiction where no capital gains is paid, or finds ways to hold freedom money in a way that the Government is not aware who owns it (unless of course they want to pay taxes, which is always their choice). Further, such taxes you mention, are imposed in the US on all asset classes, (all of which BTC has outperformed over since the start of this thread).

Stop making a fool out of yourself, learn more about Bitcoin (and improve your spelling and grammar). All these tips will help bring you success.

Its really quite sad posters like this. Same type of guy whining every time from 1K up to now 60K at all the little dips along  the way, It should really be quite obvious. BTC goes up, OVER TIME. When there is a dip, FTFD!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10649 on: April 05, 2024, 01:16:49 AM »
A strong criticism of the seemingly endless ongoing changes within that spaghetti mess that is ETH.

ETH is now down 16% to BTC last 6 months, and appears poised to continue to decline. This clip explains a little further...

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