art of the binge

[Melkor]

I don't know all of the criteria surrounding your lifestyle, eating, training etc. but judging from some of your comments here I would advise you to be very careful and to rethink some of your binging behaviour at this stage.

You say you are very lean and haven't improved your strength. Given the amount of calories you appear to be consuming during a binge episode and the fact that these are regular occurrences, would lead me to deduce that there must be some form of purging between binges (otherwise you would rapidly begin to accumulate weight, muscle and/or fat). This could eventually become a form of bulimia (if it is not already) where the purging is not through vomiting but through undereating and overexercising between binges. Do you find that you consciously restrict food between binges?

[OlympiaGym]

ceph, do you have a girlfriend?
That is one way to indulge in a calorie-free way. 

Lol. He's taking long walks to dinner & taking the bus home unless he's in high school odds r he's not doing 2 well with the ladies.plus he has an eating disorder

[WannaBePro]

Here's my binge from last Saturday night 

[The True Adonis]

Here's my binge from last Saturday night 

Thats hardly a binge. 

[WannaBePro]

Thats hardly a binge. 

I ate that all in a span of 1 hr (maybe 1.5hrs) and I couldn't breathe, was sweating bullets, couldn't sleep but also couldn't stay awake haha. I've been dieting 6 weeks prior to that on low carb. This "binge" or "refeed" or whatever you wanna call it bumped my metabolism into full gear. Woke up full and dry and better than ever 
So, obviously, to me its a binge haha. We're all different, maybe you can just handle more food. I can't because I'm an edo and put on fat just by looking at junk food. So I've trained myself to eat small portions and I guess shrank my stomach so now I can't handle as much food going in.

[FitnessFrenzy]

Thats hardly a binge. 

Was the BayGBM smiley really necessary, true Apenis?

[PJim]

Thanks for the heads up

If you define a disorder as behavior which leads to sickness or declining strength (which is my definition), I agree.  I can see the irrational beliefs which guide my behavior.  Next, i can try to find their cause and fix it.

Or I could go on getbig and drop malignant one-liners.

In the meantime, I think I'll keep a fun thread going, as I have time.

Lol, nope.  I do have some updates for the 'what did you eat yesterday' thread though.  I'm finally learning some practical skill, I think.

I'm not trying to be mean. You can enjoy food without letting it take over your life, you should try and identify your thought process. What is leading you to adapt this extreme  approach to diet? Do you have issues with control?

[cephissus]

I don't know all of the criteria surrounding your lifestyle, eating, training etc. but judging from some of your comments here I would advise you to be very careful and to rethink some of your binging behaviour at this stage.

You say you are very lean and haven't improved your strength. Given the amount of calories you appear to be consuming during a binge episode and the fact that these are regular occurrences, would lead me to deduce that there must be some form of purging between binges (otherwise you would rapidly begin to accumulate weight, muscle and/or fat). This could eventually become a form of bulimia (if it is not already) where the purging is not through vomiting but through undereating and overexercising between binges. Do you find that you consciously restrict food between binges?

Lol... I write down every calorie that I eat.  Well, I don't count individual sticks of gum anymore

I have these meals once a week.  Ordinarily, I eat 2000-2500 calories a day.  I estimate I burn about 700-800 calories during my workout, sometimes 200-300 more if I go for along walk, in addition.  I work at a desk, and used to stand for about 3/4 of the day.  I've since reduced that to about 10% of the day, after realizing how hard it is to focus while standing.

I've always behaved in accordance with a lot of irrational thinking, with regard to eating and exercise.  Ultimately, I don't know why I act this way, but I think I get closer to understanding every day.  As long as I can sense progress, I think I'm doing okay.

For me, it's not easy to accept uncertainty (though everything in life is far from certain).  I have to push the limits.  I don't think I've ever really been mentally healthy compared to average, but I don't let that depress me.  It's inherently harder for some people to deal with issues that others don't even think about.  On the other hand, I have a lot if advantages, mentally speaking, that others lack.  Everyone has to learn to address their own shortcomings.

Thanks for the concern.

[syntaxmachine]

Its a viscous cycle bro, id try to some how moderate this before it becomes too hard to reverse.

Fluidity is certainly preferable.

[Melkor]

Lol... I write down every calorie that I eat.  Well, I don't count individual sticks of gum anymore

I have these meals once a week.  Ordinarily, I eat 2000-2500 calories a day.  I estimate I burn about 700-800 calories during my workout, sometimes 200-300 more if I go for along walk, in addition.  I work at a desk, and used to stand for about 3/4 of the day.  I've since reduced that to about 10% of the day, after realizing how hard it is to focus while standing.

I've always behaved in accordance with a lot of irrational thinking, with regard to eating and exercise.  Ultimately, I don't know why I act this way, but I think I get closer to understanding every day.  As long as I can sense progress, I think I'm doing okay.

For me, it's not easy to accept uncertainty (though everything in life is far from certain).  I have to push the limits.  I don't think I've ever really been mentally healthy compared to average, but I don't let that depress me.  It's inherently harder for some people to deal with issues that others don't even think about.  On the other hand, I have a lot if advantages, mentally speaking, that others lack. Everyone has to learn to address their own shortcomings.

Thanks for the concern.

The APA would classify your behaviour somewhere along the Bulimia Nervosa spectrum. However you have a unique viewpoint on your situation where (at least it seems to me) that you don't feel helpless or out of control and you seem to be accepting this behaviour and not desperate to break your "regimen".

As long as you realise how damaging it could be (both mentally and physically) and are vigilant in maintaining some control over it (e.g. being able to go for periods of time without binging and purging and not having it require a great deal of mental stress or anguish) maybe it works for you - you are in a position to know yourself better than me or anybody else on here.

I used to dismiss eating disorders as "first world problems" before realising that somebody very close had been struggling with an eating disorder for years and it was ruining their life.

[Thong Maniac]

The APA would classify your behaviour somewhere along the Bulimia Nervosa spectrum. However you have a unique viewpoint on your situation where (at least it seems to me) that you don't feel helpless or out of control and you seem to be accepting this behaviour and not desperate to break your "regimen".

As long as you realise how damaging it could be (both mentally and physically) and are vigilant in maintaining some control over it (e.g. being able to go for periods of time without binging and purging and not having it require a great deal of mental stress or anguish) maybe it works for you - you are in a position to know yourself better than me or anybody else on here.

I used to dismiss eating disorders as "first world problems" before realising that somebody very close had been struggling with an eating disorder for years and it was ruining their life.

Could you elaborate on what was going on with your friend? I think lots here would be interested in that, and how she overcame it.

Also, Do you feel the obessive-unhealthy aspect of the OP is the vigilant tracking of cals, or the binge and starve cycle?

[Super Natural]

It's more positive to call it a "Reward meal" than a binge or cheat meal I think.

I find it's better to do it in the evening, as by the morning your insulin, blood sugar has stabilized and you sleep like a baby

It's crazy though how much you can get away with, once you are really depleted & very lean , As long as you go back to the low carbs/calories, load water and hard training, after a 3-4 hour all you can eat buffet.  Any water retention is all but gone in 3-6 days. Bonus you get even leaner after each reward meal cycle  

[Melkor]

Could you elaborate on what was going on with your friend? I think lots here would be interested in that, and how she overcame it.

Also, Do you feel the obessive-unhealthy aspect of the OP is the vigilant tracking of cals, or the binge and starve cycle?

The person I refer to was a girl that I went out with for awhile but things didn't work out. We stayed friends because we worked together each summer for several years so remained close. But through all of the years I knew here (including when I dated her) she had been suffering from an eating disorder and nobody knew. She came from a competitive swimming background like me but for girls in swimming there is a constant pressure from eating enough to recover and fuel training while also limiting fat gain (it's tough when your sport has you compete in a swimsuit...) So naturally she thought she was "fat" (I think a lot of female swimmers have some issues here). She began to restrict calories more and more developing anorexia nervosa.

In a common progression, her anorexia turned into bulimia (eventually after a period of prolonged starvation the sufferer will sometimes give in and binge). However the fear of gaining weight led to the purging behaviour and a vicious cycle begins. In many ways bulimia is more dangerous than anorexia because it is possible that the sufferer won't show any physical change - weight usually stays constant. So when I knew here I never noticed her bodyweight fluctuate much. I did however notice some strange eating habits, like fasting during the day and only eating very little. Eventually she recovered although I know for a fact know that she went through hell for years. Even today she needs to be careful and mindful of her eating behaviours to avoid a relapse.

I think the unhealthy part can be both the obsessive tracking and the binge-purge cycle. The obsessive tracking doesn't equate to an eating disorder per se unless it causes the individual distress if they can not hit macros exactly or go "off" their plan.

However in the case of the OP the obsessive tracking is a way to ensure severe calorie restriction which is in itself the purging part of the cycle (equivalent to vomiting or laxatives as it offsets the caloric surplus of the binge).

Everybody splurges now and then and afterwards tightens things up for awhile (e.g. Christmas time, birthdays etc). But this is a very different thing. Once the cycle is cemented it becomes a monstrous task to break it. Very often outside support is needed. It basically comes down to amending behaviours with regards to eating patterns. The first, usually biggest and most difficult step is NOT PURGING following a binge.

[Yamcha]

I highly recommend this if you can get it.

[Melkor]

It's more positive to call it a "Reward meal" than a binge or cheat meal I think.

I find it's better to do it in the evening, as by the morning your insulin, blood sugar has stabilized and you sleep like a baby

It's crazy though how much you can get away with, once you are really depleted & very lean , As long as you go back to the low carbs/calories, load water and hard training, after a 3-4 hour all you can eat buffet.  Any water retention is all but gone in 3-6 days. Bonus you get even leaner after each reward meal cycle  

This is the purge aspect of the cycle (in lieu of vomiting, laxatives, fasting etc.).

[Thong Maniac]

Thanks Melkor, i also dealt with using food as a "reward". I think this is part of the problem. To counter this, i adopted an iifym style of eating and so far am much happier. I only eat 1900 cals a day, but if i want ice cream, ill have some...i just fit it into my cals. The binge mentality is still there though, amd i have to mentally watch myself as i can turn that 4oz of ice cream into all our dairy warfare in a split second.

Also, my family uses food as "fun", instead of activitiy. Deciding what ice cream parlor to go to is our highlight of the day. We are fighting to break that as well, which seems harder to me. I want to be able to pick things to do like camping, fishing, etc. amd not even think about "well how far is it from a place to eat, will i get hungry while fishing, if so, ill need snacks, etc". Everything revolves around food

[Super Natural]

This is the purge aspect of the cycle (in lieu of vomiting, laxatives, fasting etc.).

There is nothing wrong with being hungry and eating low calories for peroids of time, fasted training and staying lean - may actually extends your life. We've lost touch as humans with how we are mean to be. We never use to have a bufffet of food 24/7 - it use to be famine and occasional feast.

People get hungry and you'd think by their sheer panic it was a life threatening condition LOL

[FitnessFrenzy]

Hey, Ceph!

Dude, I followed your lead and "tried" to binge last night. Ha! - it was a struggle. I got as far as: 1/2 of a large, gourmet chocolate chip cookie; 1 glazed doughnut; and about 6-8 oz. of a cream cheese apfelstrudel. Washed it all down with a quart of NF milk and a pint of coffee. I couldn't continue: epic fail

you need to train more belly building. 

[Melkor]

There is nothing wrong with being hungry and eating low calories for peroids of time, fasted training and staying lean - may actually extends your life. We've lost touch as humans with how we are mean to be. We never use to have a bufffet of food 24/7 - it use to be famine and occasional feast.

People get hungry and you'd think by their sheer panic it was a life threatening condition LOL

Yes I agree with all of that but the point I keep trying to make is that when it becomes a period of enforced hunger, fasting and severe calorie restriction with the sole purpose of "balancing" out a binge, then that is bulimic behaviour. If the "binge" is a way to enjoy different foods and delicacies or as a way to reward a hard training session or post competition than this is fine, as long there is no feeling of guilt or a yearning to undo the binge by restricting.

Sure, there would have been times in our evolutionary past when our species would have endured periods of feast and famine (however this is blown out of proportion - apart from the cold winter months as hunter gatherers we would have had access to food more regularly than many seem to think). And the only reason we ever went through a famine/feast cycle was because food availability could sometimes become intermittent so we had no choice.

[cephissus]

Hey, Ceph!

Dude, I followed your lead and "tried" to binge last night. Ha! - it was a struggle. I got as far as: 1/2 of a large, gourmet chocolate chip cookie; 1 glazed doughnut; and about 6-8 oz. of a cream cheese apfelstrudel. Washed it all down with a quart of NF milk and a pint of coffee. I couldn't continue: epic fail

Haha!  I would be disappointed, but I now understand some people can eat big, some can't.  Maybe there's some correlation with one's 'phenotype' (oh brother).

Anyway, I'm proud khan.  Keep us updated -- maybe next time you can make it upgrade that yeast ring to a danish.

[cephissus]

Yes I agree with all of that but the point I keep trying to make is that when it becomes a period of enforced hunger, fasting and severe calorie restriction with the sole purpose of "balancing" out a binge, then that is bulimic behaviour. If the "binge" is a way to enjoy different foods and delicacies or as a way to reward a hard training session or post competition than this is fine, as long there is no feeling of guilt or a yearning to undo the binge by restricting.

Sure, there would have been times in our evolutionary past when our species would have endured periods of feast and famine (however this is blown out of proportion - apart from the cold winter months as hunter gatherers we would have had access to food more regularly than many seem to think). And the only reason we ever went through a famine/feast cycle was because food availability could sometimes become intermittent so we had no choice.

Very interesting... You bring up a lot I want to talk about, but I don't have nearly enough energy to address it all.

I used to try to 'compensate' for my binges.  Back when I followed the 'galeniko principles', I was under 2k calories a day and cooked almost 100% of my own food.  Binges weren't planned, they simply happened.

As I recall galeniko saying he would do a monstrous workout the next day to compensate for such occurrences, I tried the same.  For me, this always ended in failure... My binges haven't once allowed me to perform extraordinarily the next day.

I feel less bad about each one.  I get smarter about each one, too.  I realized they CAN provide a lot of enjoyment to my life if performed correctly.  They provide variety which greatly reduces the stress I place on myself with regard to cooking (my hobby), and the stress from constantly denying myself all sorts of food.  When I know the next opportunity to try a particular food is just around the corner, I can ignore it very easily.

I no longer try to compensate with exercise at all, either.  In fact, sometimes I hold off until Saturday night, as Sunday is typically my 'day off' (if I take one).

I have a lot of problems, but I'm learning.  To be honest, I think most of my coworkers have an eating disorder: walking around gorging yourself, bridging one glucose flood into the next.  They end up far overweight, with a habit of reaching for a sugary treat every time they feel less than stellar.  I might be too far on the other end of the spectrum -- overly afraid of 'feeling too good' -- but we're all somewhere  in the same spectrum... I just need to move into a range that makes me stronger, not weaker.  To not even consider one's eating and yet fall, by instinct, in this range... That's what I call healthy, well constituted -- but how many people qualify for this label?

Very few, by my estimation.

[The True Adonis]

Very interesting... You bring up a lot I want to talk about, but I don't have nearly enough energy to address it all.

I used to try to 'compensate' for my binges.  Back when I followed the 'galeniko principles', I was under 2k calories a day and cooked almost 100% of my own food.  Binges weren't planned, they simply happened.

As I recall galeniko saying he would do a monstrous workout the next day to compensate for such occurrences, I tried the same.  For me, this always ended in failure... My binges haven't once allowed me to perform extraordinarily the next day.

I feel less bad about each one.  I get smarter about each one, too.  I realized they CAN provide a lot of enjoyment to my life if performed correctly.  They provide variety which greatly reduces the stress I place on myself with regard to cooking (my hobby), and the stress from constantly denying myself all sorts of food.  When I know the next opportunity to try a particular food is just around the corner, I can ignore it very easily.

I no longer try to conpensate with exercise at all, either.  In fact, sometimes I hold off until Saturday night, as Sunday is typically my 'day off' (if I take one).

I have a lot of problems, but I'm learning.  To be honest, I think most of my coworkers have an eating disorder: walking around gorging yourself, bridging one glucose flood into the next.  They end up far overweight, with a habit of reaching for a sugary treat every time they feel less than stellar.  I might be too far on the other end of the spectrum -- overly afraid of 'feeling too good' -- but we're all somewhere  in the same spectrum... I just need to move into a range that makes me stronger, not weaker.  To not even consider one's eating and yet fall, by instinct, in this range... That's what I call healthy, well constituted -- but how many people qualify for this label?

Very few, by my estimation.

Just start estimating your calories.  Try that.

[240 is Back]

I deep fry a lamb for the ultimate in cheat day goodness.  served with those blue cheese crumbles.

[cephissus]

Just start estimating your calories.  Try that.

How closely do you estimate?  Over the past year or two, I progressively became more obsessive, to the point I weighed and counted tiny items like garlic and sticks of gum.  I've since backed off a bit, but I still weigh all of my ingredients and quickly write them down.

More importantly, each day I obsess less about meeting calorie-based goals (e.g. consuming at a certain rate, keeping a schedule, trying to beat my "consumption rate" from the day before, etc.) and allow myself a more "experimental" approach.

For example, today I'm trying not to eat until after my workout (which will happen in about 30 minutes).  Only had about 150 calories so far, and I feel great.  Previously, I would have beaten myself up for not "sticking to the plan", and been wracked with worry about how I would perform during my workout (oh brother).  Now, I'm willing to run daily experiments like this -- I don't feel like I have to do the same thing tomorrow, and I don't have pangs of conscience, worry, second-guessing over every little decision.

[The True Adonis]

How closely do you estimate?  Over the past year or two, I progressively became more obsessive, to the point I weighed and counted tiny items like garlic and sticks of gum.  I've since backed off a bit, but I still weigh all of my ingredients and quickly write them down.

More importantly, each day I obsess less about meeting calorie-based goals (e.g. consuming at a certain rate, keeping a schedule, trying to beat my "consumption rate" from the day before, etc.) and allow myself a more "experimental" approach.

For example, today I'm trying not to eat until after my workout (which will happen in about 30 minutes).  Only had about 150 calories so far, and I feel great.  Previously, I would have beaten myself up for not "sticking to the plan", and been wracked with worry about how I would perform during my workout (oh brother).  Now, I'm willing to run daily experiments like this -- I don't feel like I have to do the same thing tomorrow, and I don't have pangs of conscience, worry, second-guessing over every little decision.

Fuck the plan and fuck your experiments.  Its not like you are going to accomplish anything else.

Its quite difficult to get fat.  Just eat less if you do.

Just eyeball it.  Hell, don`t even do that.  Just eat and adjust every two weeks or something, depending on what you want to do.

What do you want to do?