bob paris on phil donahue

[Straw Man]

Ah, I see. That's a pretty typical example of shallow thinking. My point was, and forget specific examples as you can use any example you want, that there are some behaviors, feelings, desires, proclivities, that should remain private. Specifically in this case, if you're gay -- fine -- no need to shout it out and constantly put it out there. No need for parades. It makes one think that your sexual preferences is the main thing, maybe even the only thing, that defines you.

I'm sure when a Christian keeps bringing up that fact and is constantly preaching you would roll your eyes and think "shut up already."

But, in fairness, having watched part of the vid, I see it wasn't about celebrating and advocating their homosexuality but rather about same sex marriage. love and equal rights.

That is quite different but again an example how a position and/or argument can get so convoluted as same sex marriage has nothing to do with love and/or equal rights.

Gay people have the exact same rights as everybody else to get married.

ok, so you're all for gay people being able to get married but you just don't want them to "shout it out"?

[pellius]

ok, so you're all for gay people being able to get married but you just don't want them to "shout it out"?

I do not support the legalization of same sex marriage. I made that abundantly clear. I believe anybody can do anything they what as long as they don't hurt or infringe on the rights of others. Gays want special and new rights. They want to change the definition of marriage as it has been recognized throughout the history of mankind. Something I also made abundantly clear.

If you're gay, straight, a tranny, cd, shemale or whatever no need to shout it out. Just live your life and don't bother anybody.

Please try to keep up.

[Straw Man]

I do not support the legalization of same sex marriage. I made that abundantly clear. I believe anybody can do anything they what as long as they don't hurt or infringe on the rights of others. Gays want special and new rights. They want to change the definition of marriage as it has been recognized throughout the history of mankind. Something I also made abundantly clear.

If you're gay, straight, a tranny, cd, shemale or whatever no need to shout it out. Just live your life and don't bother anybody.

Please try to keep up.

gotcha

how does gay marriage hurt or infringe upon the rights of others and

what "special" rights do they want again?

[pellius]

gotcha

how does gay marriage hurt or infringe upon the rights of others and

what "special" rights do they want again?

I just wrote a novel addressing this issue. I explained in detail both issues. Are you even paying attention?

I'm not going to say it again. It's in this thread. But you really do seem slow so I will do the unnecessary and quote myself to accommodate your lazy thinking and reasoning ability.

Since the subject has switched to Gay marriage, which in itself is a misnomer, I want to add to this conversation a recent discussion about the recent court ruling.

Gays have the same rights as everybody vis-a-vis marriage. No one, gay or straight, have the right to marry someone of the same sex and have it legally recognize. No one is preventing them from getting married in whatever church that will perform it and living as a married couple. They just don't have the right to have it legally recognized. As Arnold said when he was running for Governor, "I support gay marriage as long as it's between a man and a women."

Again, the homosexual community wants to redefine marriage and want to create new and special rights to accommodate their life style.
 

Again, I'll reiterate because you seem very dim. To be precise, we are not talking about gay marriage, we are talking about Same Sex marriage. Two people of the opposite sex getting married. Nobody is allowed to have that legally recognized, gay or straight. So it should obviously follow that if you want two people of the same sex to get legally married you are trying to create a new right. A special right for two members of the same sex to marry. You want to change the legal definition of marriage as it has been recognized throughout human history.

If a gay man and a lesbian want to get legally married they can. If a straight or gay man wants to marry another straight or gay man they are not legally allow to do so.

Same and equal rights for both gays and straight.

[pellius]

How does this infringe of another's rights. I won't explain it to you because at this point I really don't think you can grasp what I erroneously considered a simple concept so I will give you an example.

Say a gay couple wants to get married by a Catholic Priest. Now according to Catholicism homosexually is considered a sin. It's in the Bible and stated quite clearly. There's no interpretation or wiggle room regarding that issue. Does a Catholic Priest have the right to believe in the Bible and obey it's laws? Does a Catholic Priest, or anybody for that matter, have right to believe that homosexually is a sin?  I say yes.

But if same sex marriage is a legal right a Catholic Priest can no longer refuse to perform a Gay/Same Sex wedding. The same sex law is preventing the right of someone to believe and follow the tenets of his religion.

[Straw Man]

I just wrote a novel addressing this issue. I explained in detail both issues. Are you even paying attention?

I'm not going to say it again. It's in this thread. But you really do seem slow so I will do the unnecessary and quote myself to accommodate your lazy thinking and reasoning ability.

Again, I'll reiterate because you seem very dim. To be precise, we are not talking about gay marriage, we are talking about Same Sex marriage. Two people of the opposite sex getting married. Nobody is allowed to have that legally recognized, gay or straight. So it should obviously follow that if you want two people of the same sex to get legally married you are trying to create a new right. A special right for two members of the same sex to marry. You want to change the legal definition of marriage as it has been recognized throughout human history.

If a gay man and a lesbian want to get legally married they can. If a straight or gay man wants to marry another straight or gay man they are not legally allow to do so.

Same and equal rights for both gays and straight.

a gay man can't marry a straight man?

are you sure

I asked you a SIMPLE question

what special rights do you think gay people now have?

All I see is that everyone now has the right to marry whomever they want

it applies to everyone so no one has any special rights

can we agree on that?

If so we can move to deciphering your other very queer views of the world

[The Scott]

Paris should have been Mr. Olympia several times over.  He would have been an excellent spokesman for bodybuilding.  Handsome with a very aesthetic phyisque, articulate and a superb poser. 

Today we just have poseurs.

[pellius]

a gay man can't marry a straight man?

are you sure

I asked you a SIMPLE question

what special rights do you think gay people now have?

All I see is that everyone now has the right to marry whomever they want

it applies to everyone so no one has any special rights

can we agree on that?

If so we can move to deciphering your other very queer views of the world

What a dishonest little shit you are.

This whole thread was predicated on the youtube vid of Bob Paris on Donahue and all the arguments and opinions here were based prior to the recent Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight.

Now you change the very premise of the argument to suit your agenda and act like you've been talking about the state of affairs [/b]AFTER[/b] five unelected Judges ruled to over ride the legislative process and decide for the entire country.

Now you speak in terms of "[/B]NOW[/B]  have" the right to marry...

You were never about seeking clarity or truth. Congratulations! You got me. Yes, now that the Supreme Court has created a new law, a new right, a special right, a right that has never existed in our history, i.e., the right that now someone has this new right to marry a member of the same sex and now everybody, including those whose religious beliefs forbid from doing so, must now accept and honor that position.  

So congratulations. I take these matters sincerely as it impacts are culture and society considerably and spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain and discuss it with you. But you were never sincere or honest. You  just wasted my time. So you got me. Good for you.

It's gay activists like you that ruin it for the vast majority of decent gays out there and foment the resentment and hostility by forcing your lifestyle down other people's throats instead of just living your lives. It's not enough that society tolerates and accepts a life style many consider immoral but now, under threat of government coercion, which is what all laws are, they have to accept, honor and embrace your lifestyle.

You're a dishonest little shit promoting your gay agenda (and don't even try to convince anybody you're not gay which is a common tactic use by homos like you to add to your credibility) and contributing, in your own small way, to bringing down our society and culture and doing everything and anything you can to destroy the traditional values that made our country great.

[Eric2]

I do not support the legalization of same sex marriage. I made that abundantly clear. I believe anybody can do anything they what as long as they don't hurt or infringe on the rights of others. Gays want special and new rights. They want to change the definition of marriage as it has been recognized throughout the history of mankind. Something I also made abundantly clear.

If you're gay, straight, a tranny, cd, shemale or whatever no need to shout it out. Just live your life and don't bother anybody.

Please try to keep up.

Problem is theses ass. Pumper.s adopt children and warp their minds, it's is harmful.

[240 is Back]

Beyond Built.

[Straw Man]

What a dishonest little shit you are.

This whole thread was predicated on the youtube vid of Bob Paris on Donahue and all the arguments and opinions here were based prior to the recent Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight.

Now you change the very premise of the argument to suit your agenda and act like you've been talking about the state of affairs [/b]AFTER[/b] five unelected Judges ruled to over ride the legislative process and decide for the entire country.

Now you speak in terms of "[/B]NOW[/B]  have" the right to marry...

You were never about seeking clarity or truth. Congratulations! You got me. Yes, now that the Supreme Court has created a new law, a new right, a special right, a right that has never existed in our history, i.e., the right that now someone has this new right to marry a member of the same sex and now everybody, including those whose religious beliefs forbid from doing so, must now accept and honor that position.  

So congratulations. I take these matters sincerely as it impacts are culture and society considerably and spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain and discuss it with you. But you were never sincere or honest. You  just wasted my time. So you got me. Good for you.

It's gay activists like you that ruin it for the vast majority of decent gays out there and foment the resentment and hostility by forcing your lifestyle down other people's throats instead of just living your lives. It's not enough that society tolerates and accepts a life style many consider immoral but now, under threat of government coercion, which is what all laws are, they have to accept, honor and embrace your lifestyle.

You're a dishonest little shit promoting your gay agenda (and don't even try to convince anybody you're not gay which is a common tactic use by homos like you to add to your credibility) and contributing, in your own small way, to bringing down our society and culture and doing everything and anything you can to destroy the traditional values that made our country great.

LOL - you think I'm a gay activist?

the SCOTUS does not make laws

you knew that...right?

[pellius]

LOL - you think I'm a gay activist?

the SCOTUS does not make laws

you knew that...right?

Once again your dishonesty and gay agenda shines through. When did I say the Supreme Court wrote and made the same sex law? I said they legalized it.

"This whole thread was predicated on the youtube vid of Bob Paris on Donahue and all the arguments and opinions here were based prior to the recent Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage."

And by legalizing same sex marriage a new law was created. A new right that has never existed is now in effect. This is much different than saying the Supreme Court wrote, made or created the law.

Once again you try to obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. Once again you prove yourself a dishonest little shit.

Claim whatever you want. Your words and views speak for themselves. You are a gay activist. This is far different than just someone who is gay and wants to live their life in peace, the vast majority. A gay activist, you, is one who wants to cram your lifestyle down other people's lives. You claim you don't want government in your personal life. You don't want government in your bedroom. But that is just a lie. You want to force government to pass laws forcing others to embrace and honor your lifestyle.

If there is anybody reading this thread that believes "Strawman" is not a gay activist. Does not promote and defend the gay life style and demands, by means of laws, i.e., government coerce, that we all accept, embrace and honor his lifestyle even if it means you have to go against deeply held religious beliefs speak out now. Explain to me why this is not so.

[Straw Man]

Once again your dishonesty and gay agenda shines through. When did I say the Supreme Court wrote and made the same sex law? I said they legalized it.

"This whole thread was predicated on the youtube vid of Bob Paris on Donahue and all the arguments and opinions here were based prior to the recent Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage."

And by legalizing same sex marriage a new law was created. A new right that has never existed is now in effect. This is much different than saying the Supreme Court wrote, made or created the law.

Once again you try to obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. Once again you prove yourself a dishonest little shit.

Claim whatever you want. Your words and views speak for themselves. You are a gay activist. This is far different than just someone who is gay and wants to live their life in peace, the vast majority. A gay activist, you, is one who wants to cram your lifestyle down other people's lives. You claim you don't want government in your personal life. You don't want government in your bedroom. But that is just a lie. You want to force government to pass laws forcing others to embrace and honor your lifestyle.

If there is anybody reading this thread that believes "Strawman" is not a gay activist. Does not promote and defend the gay life style and demands, by means of laws, i.e., government coerce, that we all accept, embrace and honor his lifestyle even if it means you have to go against deeply held religious beliefs speak out now. Explain to me why this is not so.

you wrote that the SCOTUS "created a new law"

they did no such thing

you seem to have way more emotional investment in this topic than I do

try to calm down a bit if you can

[pellius]

you wrote that the SCOTUS "created a new law"

they did no such thing

you seem to have way more emotional investment in this topic than I do

try to calm down a bit if you can

Once again you lie. I said the Supreme Court LEGALIZED the right for same sex couples to get married. This in effect created a new law.

As I said just a few posts up:

"Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight."

A month ago this right and this law did not exist. Now it does. Anybody can see this and so can you. You want to deny it and obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. I understand. That's what gay activists do.

I do have a huge investment in these issues because it determines the direction our culture and society moves. A direction I believe is
not going in a positive direction. It's because of people like you that what to cram your lifestyle and beliefs down other people's throats and are willing to lie about it.

I despise people like you because besmirch the reputation of the majority of decent gay people out there. You disproportionately misrepresent your people's position and breed resentment and hostility.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you because it's pointless to discuss any issue with someone who is simply not an honest person. I will content myself knowing that you have been exposed as what you are. A gay activist that is willing to lie to promote your lifestyle and agenda and cram your beliefs and lifestyle down everybody throats and will use the force of government coercion when it suits your needs.

[tom joad]

gayer than a heterosexual getting all worked up over gay marriage.

[Straw Man]

Once again you lie. I said the Supreme Court LEGALIZED the right for same sex couples to get married. This in effect created a new law.

As I said just a few posts up:

"Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight."

A month ago this right and this law did not exist. Now it does. Anybody can see this and so can you. You want to deny it and obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. I understand. That's what gay activists do.

I do have a huge investment in these issues because it determines the direction our culture and society moves. A direction I believe is
not going in a positive direction. It's because of people like you that what to cram your lifestyle and beliefs down other people's throats and are willing to lie about it.

I despise people like you because besmirch the reputation of the majority of decent gay people out there. You disproportionately misrepresent your people's position and breed resentment and hostility.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you because it's pointless to discuss any issue with someone who is simply not an honest person. I will content myself knowing that you have been exposed as what you are. A gay activist that is willing to lie to promote your lifestyle and agenda and cram your beliefs and lifestyle down everybody throats and will use the force of government coercion when it suits your needs.

they created nothing

they recognized a situation where equal protection under the law was being denied

I have no investment in this issue

why would you despise me when you don't even know me?

you seem to have a very emotional approach on this issue

why is that?

[pellius]

gayer than a heterosexual getting all worked up over gay marriage.

Because you're a sheep. You just do what you are told. You stand for nothing in life. Now that gays can marry a member of the same sex what's to prevent two straight male roommates from marrying so they can receive benefits paid for by tax payers? What's to prevent someone from marrying their brother, sister, mother, father, daughter, son, their cat or dog? What's to prevent having two, three, four... wives or husbands? What's to prevent having a man having two wives and two husbands?

But I don't worry about guys like you. You're way to self absorb and don't really follow the current issues of the day and can't be bothered to vote or get involved in anything other than your own shallow, self-absorbed life style. You just go where ever you and your kind are herded.

[Straw Man]

Once again you lie. I said the Supreme Court LEGALIZED the right for same sex couples to get married. This in effect created a new law.

As I said just a few posts up:

"Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight."

A month ago this right and this law did not exist. Now it does. Anybody can see this and so can you. You want to deny it and obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. I understand. That's what gay activists do.

I do have a huge investment in these issues because it determines the direction our culture and society moves. A direction I believe is
not going in a positive direction. It's because of people like you that what to cram your lifestyle and beliefs down other people's throats and are willing to lie about it.

I despise people like you because besmirch the reputation of the majority of decent gay people out there. You disproportionately misrepresent your people's position and breed resentment and hostility.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you because it's pointless to discuss any issue with someone who is simply not an honest person. I will content myself knowing that you have been exposed as what you are. A gay activist that is willing to lie to promote your lifestyle and agenda and cram your beliefs and lifestyle down everybody throats and will use the force of government coercion when it suits your needs.

the SCOTUS did not create a new law or a special right

they recognized that a right had been denied and is now legally available to anyone

you say you have a HUGE INVESTMENT and I've said I have no investment

other than your obvious panic (for whatever reason)

what is your huge investment?

[tom joad]

the SCOTUS did not create a new law or a special right

they recognized that a right had been denied and is now legally available to anyone

you say you have a HUGE INVESTMENT and I've said I have no investment

other than your obvious panic (for whatever reason)

what is your huge investment?

pellius must be gay (and there's nothing wrong with that) but he's deeply ashamed about it and that's the reason for his panic and huge investment.

[Straw Man]

pellius must be gay (and there's nothing wrong with that) but he's deeply ashamed about it and that's the reason for his panic and huge investment.

could be
I don't know the guy

I have noticed that people like him love to use the imagery of having something crammed down their throat.
I've seen that often on this site and in the media too

I wonder if they even realize it?

Once again you lie. I said the Supreme Court LEGALIZED the right for same sex couples to get married. This in effect created a new law.

As I said just a few posts up:

"Supreme Court decision legalizing Same Sex Marriage. Creating a new law, a new right, a SPECIAL right that has never existed before in our country's history. The LEGAL right for someone to marry a member of the same sex, whether gay or straight."

A month ago this right and this law did not exist. Now it does. Anybody can see this and so can you. You want to deny it and obfuscate the issue to promote your gay agenda. I understand. That's what gay activists do.

I do have a huge investment in these issues because it determines the direction our culture and society moves. A direction I believe is
not going in a positive direction. It's because of people like you that what to cram your lifestyle and beliefs down other people's throats and are willing to lie about it.

I despise people like you because besmirch the reputation of the majority of decent gay people out there. You disproportionately misrepresent your people's position and breed resentment and hostility.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you because it's pointless to discuss any issue with someone who is simply not an honest person. I will content myself knowing that you have been exposed as what you are. A gay activist that is willing to lie to promote your lifestyle and agenda and cram your beliefs and lifestyle down everybody throats and will use the force of government coercion when it suits your needs.

[pellius]

pellius must be gay (and there's nothing wrong with that) but he's deeply ashamed about it and that's the reason for his panic and huge investment.

So if you oppose the gay activist movement that means you're gay.

With every post you make you confirm my suspicion that you just are not an intelligent and educated person.

And there is a lot wrong with that.

[pellius]

could be
I don't know the guy

I have noticed that people like him love to use the imagery of having something crammed down their throat.
I've seen that often on this site and in the media too

I wonder if they even realize it?

What imagery is that?

[timfogarty]

...

Every argument you make was also made after 1967 Loving v Virginia, which overturned all miscegenation laws.  Your arguments will have the same effect on future generations as theirs did on us.

[pellius]

Every argument you make was also made after 1967 Loving v Virginia, which overturned all miscegenation laws.  Your arguments will have the same effect on future generations as theirs did on us.

Interracial marriage is quite different from same sex marriage. A race/ethnicity is a state of being. You are
born a certain race. Homosexuality is a behavior. You may argue correctly that a person's attraction to the same sex is innate but acting on that propensity or attraction is a chosen behavior. That is not to imply that in this case choosing to act on your inclinations or attractions is wrong, say like in the case where it's in one's nature to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children.

The issue is that no one had the right to marry a member of the same sex. Five unelected Judges changed that. It should have been left to the legislative process. It has been voted down every time it came up and the activist always over rides the will of the people and takes it to the judges.

This was a matter for the States. It's similar to Roe v Wade. Abortion was already legal in 13 States including my State of Hawaii. The 10th Amendment makes it crystal clear what powers the Federal Government had and it is very precise and limited.

This matter should have been left to the States.

[timfogarty]

to say that a person's attraction to the same sex is innate but acting on that propensity or attraction is a chosen behavior makes no sense. You're saying people can fall in love with anyone of any race because race is innate.  But while sexual attraction is also innate, you're not allowed to fall in love who you're attracted to.

the majority does not get to define what rights to give the minority.  that is what the constitution is for.  the role of the supreme court is to interpret the constitution.  They interpreted, just like the court in 1967 did, that the 14th Amendment, equal protection under the law, applies to marriage.




(chart needs to be updated)


Also, "states rights, states rights" for things one disagree with, such as abortion, same sex marriage, etc, but not for things you agree with, such as gun rights, corporation rights, election finance laws, etc