Deadlift: Over-rated?

[ritch]

Tensile strength is usually related to tendons. If there is a tear from deads it's usually the bicep tendon. In most cases if you're tearing either bicep muscle or its tendon, something is missing in your training. Vince is too stupid to realize this.

Nonsense! The biceptinator creates biceps immune to tears from the deadlift.

[Coach is Back!]

Nonsense! The biceptinator creates biceps immune to tears from the deadlift.

I stand corrected. But the next time Vince creates his bicep time machine I hope he takes some actual studies into consideration. Here Vince, let me help. (I only want 49% of the proceeds for this invention)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22030096/

[pellius]

His body would have needed them, he lacked thickness in his back and legs.

Perhaps, but there were a lot of bodybuilders that dead lift that don't have a thick back or legs. And I think Levrone legs were great during his early years.

[pellius]

Tensile strength is usually related to tendons. If there is a tear from deads it's usually the bicep tendon. In most cases if you're tearing either bicep muscle or its tendon, something is missing in your training. Vince is too stupid to realize this.

Yes, you are right.

But, just to be precise, I don't think it's necessarily something missing from your training. Usually it's because of incorrect training.

Unless you define poor execution as "missing" proper technique.

In my experience, which I admit doesn't come close to yours, it has been explosive movements, not heavy resistance, that is more likely to cause injury. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration. You can sit in a plane going 300 mph with no problem but go from zero to sixty in one second and your head comes off.

I can press my fist against a brick wall as hard as I can and nothing will happen. Punch it and my bones break.

[MORTALCOIL]

Taking Vince's training advices would be pretty much like cutting your dick off hoping it will regrow bigger.

[PJim]

Partial deads, yes. Full, no.

My greatest strength and size gains on back came from doing partial deads starting from mid shin in a rack. It takes the legs out of the equation just enough so that the focus is where it should be. I feel the key is to focus on really controlling the reps rather than pulling explosively. You might need to reduce the weight to allow this, but it will mean the negative portion can be controlled more also.

[Skylge]

I only do them with very light weights, and stopping 10 inches above ground level. Otherwise my lower back will get damaged. The whole point of bodybuilding after all is improving your health, not getting injured

[musclecenter]

its an OVERRATED exercise!
but Romanian deadlift is good for bodybuilder.

[Melkor]

I think as a test of absolute strength we have yet to find a single exercise better than the deadlift to use for comparison. Unlike the squat there is no grey area in terms of range of motion and depth. For many athletes (e.g. strongmen, wrestlers & MMA, rugby players - basically any sport that requires a grip, pulling strength and core stability) improving your deadlift will directly improve your physical performance.

From a bodybuilding perspective I would imagine that how you are built and how you deadlift is the biggest factor as to how important a movement it is. I would say to deadlift anyway if you are a beginner or intermediate but I am sure at the higher levels of bodybuilding when the competitor is fine-tuning it may become difficult to fit heavy deadlifts into a split routine. A properly performed deadlift involves the use of the legs and back. Maybe "dividing" the move between straight leg deadlifts and rack pulls may be more beneficial at that point.

[milone79]

I don't think you need to do dead lifts to become a successful bodybuilder. I think Levrone claimed never to do them.


But, whether you are a bodybuilder or not, one of the reasons one should do weight lifting is to improve functional ability. Dead lifts are probably the most real life exercise you can do. Picking things up off the ground is something you do regularly. Might as well improve your ability to do that.

I personally don't like dead lifts and I believe you can develop you legs, hams and lower back with other, easier, lifts. But I've been doing them regularly for decades.

Argument is void Kevin Levrone's back was his weak point....all the best backs in bodybuilding were built by guys who dead lifted....Franco, Dorian, Ronnie etc...with proper form you can't beat squats and deads...too many pussies try to find excuses as to why they cannot do these movements and they are the ones with the shitty legs/backs....

[BigCyp]

I started a new routine about 5 weeks ago that was all free weights, no cables or machines. The results have been great. I've always done deadlifts sporadically, but have been doing them twice a week lately. Last nights workout was 495 for '9 reps across 3 sets, not God-like numbers, but decent.

Most "serious" lifters are really vocal about deadlifts being the king of exercises. I don't know... I feel like my deadlift gains don't translate to other exercises.  When my barbell row increases, so do chinups and biceps exercises. When my shoulder press increases, so does chest. I noticed I was at a sticking point with deadlifts and I got past that sticking point by increasing my squat. I don't feel like deadlifts helped my squats. 

Before starting this routine, I would notice that if I went a few workouts skipping deadlifts but getting in solid workouts on other exercises, my deadlift numbers stayed stable( I don't try to max out, my current of 495 for reps is the highest I've ever regularly lifted). If I focused on deadlifts for a few workouts, my chinup would feel weaker and I was handling less weight on barbell rows. 

Anybody else feel like deadlifts are overrated, or at the very least, they aren't effective for you?

The deadlift, for most of the movement, (apart from recruiting the quads and hams a bit for the first quarter of the lift, and your back contracting at the top) is more of a display of levers and physics than a 'pure' muscle contraction like say shoulder press. That's probably why you don't lose many numbers on that lift if you don't deadlift for a few sessions. Unless your tendons or joints get particularly weakened, you will be able to 'pull' what you did last time.

[Donny]

The deadlift, for most of the movement, (apart from recruiting the quads and hams a bit for the first quarter of the lift, and your back contracting at the top) is more of a display of levers and physics than a 'pure' muscle contraction like say shoulder press. That's probably why you don't lose many numbers on that lift if you don't deadlift for a few sessions. Unless your tendons or joints get particularly weakened, you will be able to 'pull' what you did last time.

I think stiff deads/Romanian deads are a diffrent story though...

[Royalty]

In the 90's, Levrone did 405LB stiff-legged deadlifts on leg day

[Donny]

In the 90's, Levrone did 405LB stiff-legged deadlifts on leg day

trains all 3 positions...stretch,mid,contraction.

[Waller]

Partial deads, yes. Full, no.

My greatest strength and size gains on back came from doing partial deads starting from mid shin in a rack. It takes the legs out of the equation just enough so that the focus is where it should be. I feel the key is to focus on really controlling the reps rather than pulling explosively. You might need to reduce the weight to allow this, but it will mean the negative portion can be controlled more also.

This is where I stand too. I only ever moved onto partials after a back injury, but since trying them have stuck with them. They add a thickness to my spinal erectors and traps that just isn't there otherwise.

[Al Doggity]

The deadlift, for most of the movement, (apart from recruiting the quads and hams a bit for the first quarter of the lift, and your back contracting at the top) is more of a display of levers and physics than a 'pure' muscle contraction like say shoulder press. That's probably why you don't lose many numbers on that lift if you don't deadlift for a few sessions. Unless your tendons or joints get particularly weakened, you will be able to 'pull' what you did last time.

Which falls in line with my thinking that it's usefulness is questionable. Other exercises help you build up your deadlift, but increasing your deadlift doesn't really affect other lifts.

[lilhawk1]

Argument is void Kevin Levrone's back was his weak point....all the best backs in bodybuilding were built by guys who dead lifted....Franco, Dorian, Ronnie etc...with proper form you can't beat squats and deads...too many pussies try to find excuses as to why they cannot do these movements and they are the ones with the shitty legs/backs....

This^

[Donny]

Which falls in line with my thinking that it's usefulness is questionable. Other exercises help you build up your deadlift, but increasing your deadlift doesn't really affect other lifts.

give examples please.. I know people who never Deadlift and that have great erectors doing Hypers and such. Great Bodybuilders like V Gironda shunned squats/Deads although he did variations which he thought fitted his philosophy. what is your training programme?

[ritch]

In the 90's, Levrone did 405LB stiff-legged deadlifts on leg day

that is completely different, you know this...

[io856]

Never take training advice from VinceB.

Not even once

[Darren Avey]

The only people who don't deadlift are
1.) People with back problems
2.) People who like to complain

3.) Girly men

[Al Doggity]

give examples please.. I know people who never Deadlift and that have great erectors doing Hypers and such. Great Bodybuilders like V Gironda shunned squats/Deads although he did variations which he thought fitted his philosophy. what is your training programme?

I think we're agreeing. I was saying that deads aren't obligatory.

[Donny]

I think we're agreeing. I was saying that deads aren't obligatory.

I agree with you but what is your workout ?

[Al Doggity]

I agree with you but what is your workout ?

I gave a brief description in opening post, but here it is in a little more detail:
5 on/ 2 off, upper body twice a week.

Mon/Thur-tris followed by pecs
Tues/Fri-bis followed by back
Weds-quads and hamstrings
Abs and high volume calf raises every upperbody workout.

As I said in opening post, cut out machines as much as possible a few weeks ago.

I believe in hitting as many angles as possible, so I don't have a set routine, but bi/back day would look something like this:

BICEPS:
Seated curls supersetted with standing reverse grip curls
Hammer curls supersetted with incline curls
Concentration curls supersetted with decline curls
Barbell curls supersetted with high volume hammer curls

BACK:
Bent over barbell rows (overhand)
Bent over barbell rows (underhand) both supersetted with wrist curls
Chin ups supersetted with rear flyes
Deadlifts
High volume shrugs supersetted with pause and hold dumbbell rows

[io856]

I gave a brief description in opening post, but here it is in a little more detail:
5 on/ 2 off, upper body twice a week.

Mon/Thur-tris followed by pecs
Tues/Fri-bis followed by back
Weds-quads and hamstrings
Abs and high volume calf raises every upperbody workout.

As I said in opening post, cut out machines as much as possible a few weeks ago.

I believe in hitting as many angles as possible, so I don't have a set routine, but bi/back day would look something like this:

BICEPS:
Seated curls supersetted with standing reverse grip curls
Hammer curls supersetted with incline curls
Concentration curls supersetted with decline curls
Barbell curls supersetted with high volume hammer curls

BACK:
Bent over barbell rows (overhand)
Bent over barbell rows (underhand) both supersetted with wrist curls
Chin ups supersetted with rear flyes
Deadlifts
High volume shrugs supersetted with pause and hold dumbbell rows

Wow thats a lot of bicep volume
How are they responding to it?
Must get some great arm pumps