Harley Breite - Appreciation thread

[Sokolsky]

a lawyers first duty is to the court.
If a lawyer knows his client is guilty then he shouldn't allow him to go to court and commit perjury on the stand.
Also, if a lawyer is a private lawyer he can pick and choose cases.
Public defenders are there for the pieces of shit who are guilty beyond a shadow of doubt.

A lawyers first duty is to the court. Ensuring it's proper functioning. As they are an institution empowered by the people.
And have a moral responsibility to ensure the best possible outcomes, following proper protocols and procedurs as best they can.

The justice system still acts on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. As it should. To shield the system from people such as yourself, who; are only satisfied if a person they think is guilty, receives a punishment they deem appropriate. Which has more to do with vengeance than with punishment.

If a client is guilty, then the prosecutors will have no problem providing overwhelming proof within the set-boundaries of the law.
If they cannot, then they should strive to be more meticulous in their investigation and prosecution.

Harley is there to ensure the system works. Not just to protect innocent people, but also to make sure that in the future the system does not allow for mistakes which could favor actual offenders. It's about much more than a single-case, or a single-person.

Obviously, there is something about Harley that does not allow himself to defend an animal abuser, yet, he does not feel the same repulsion for child abusers.

I am wondering what his rationale is.

Well, given that I have been cheated on in the past, and quite frankly cannot understand why people would cheat in the first place. You'd assume I wouldn't associate with such people. However, a good friend of mine, and frequent drinking buddy, has a wife and kid at home (and quite frankly a good position in life). Yet whenever we go out, it's free-range. To the point where I'm surprised it hasn't caught up with him yet, given we're in a rather small community. While the thought of cheating is repulsive to me, and I cannot relate at all. I still find him a likeable guy.

Now what rationale is there in this? Or hell, what's the rationale in anything of anyone?
We are all emotional beings, with sometimes (ir)rational thoughts. Our ability to switch off to certain impulses is greater to one thing than another. Without a necessary direct correlation, although probably all can be traced back to encounters, upbringing or just basically the whole nature vs nurture shazam.

[Simple Simon]

A lawyers first duty is to the court. Ensuring it's proper functioning. As they are an institution empowered by the people.
And have a moral responsibility to ensure the best possible outcomes, following proper protocols and procedurs as best they can.

The justice system still acts on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. As it should. To shield the system from people such as yourself, who; are only satisfied if a person they think is guilty, receives a punishment they deem appropriate. Which has more to do with vengeance than with punishment.

If a client is guilty, then the prosecutors will have no problem providing overwhelming proof within the set-boundaries of the law.
If they cannot, then they should strive to be more meticulous in their investigation and prosecution.

Harley is there to ensure the system works. Not just to protect innocent people, but also to make sure that in the future the system does not allow for mistakes which could favor actual offenders. It's about much more than a single-case, or a single-person.

Well, given that I have been cheated on in the past, and quite frankly cannot understand why people would cheat in the first place. You'd assume I wouldn't associate with such people. However, a good friend of mine, and frequent drinking buddy, has a wife and kid at home (and quite frankly a good position in life). Yet whenever we go out, it's free-range. To the point where I'm surprised it hasn't caught up with him yet, given we're in a rather small community. While the thought of cheating is repulsive to me, and I cannot relate at all. I still find him a likeable guy.

Now what rationale is there in this? Or hell, what's the rationale in anything of anyone?
We are all emotional beings, with sometimes (ir)rational thoughts. Our ability to switch off to certain impulses is greater to one thing than another. Without a necessary direct correlation, although probably all can be traced back to encounters, upbringing or just basically the whole nature vs nurture shazam.

Care to quote me where I have indicated anything like that?
as for the second bit, come and tell us hes a likeable guy when hes banging your wife or girlfriend.

[Las Vegas]

No, Nelson.  I'm not going to join in any attack, just because it seems to be a popular thing to do.  No way would I stoop to that level.

And I was critical of Harley, in the beginning.  Over the course of thread, I've changed my opinion.  I have much more respect for what he does, because I now have a better understanding of it.

I understand, too, that most people (including me) come to GB to get away from the other shit in life, at least that's true about the G and O, and I'm not going to rain on anyone's parade just for the sake of it.

Harley is a good dude.

[NelsonMuntz]

No, Nelson.  I'm not going to join in any attack, just because it seems to be a popular thing to do.  No way would I stoop to that level.

And I was critical of Harley, in the beginning.  Over the course of thread, I've changed my opinion.  I have much more respect for what he does, because I have a better understanding of it.

I understand, too, that most people (including me) come to GB to get away from the other shit in life, at least that's true about the G and O, and I'm not going to rain on anyone's parade just for the sake of it.

Harley is a good dude.

I hope you realize I am being sarcastic.

I have no problem with the dude, seems like a good guy, however I still stand by the fact that he should take the opportunity to engage/educate people in what he does more rather than just look at this thread daily waiting for people to change a subject, a divisive one, that he brought up in the first place.

I have experience in the legal system and know for a fact that there are both REAL GUILTY AS WELL AS NOT GUILTY people who go through the system. And when I talk GUILTY AND NOT GUILTY I mean literally clear as day. So I do understand what the job of a defence lawyer is, and that there are theatrics etc involved. And the same exact thing is done by the prosecution. EXACT!

Up here in Canada we have both prosecutors, judges and defence lawyers whom have played all three positions in their careers. Don't forget up here the positions of Judges and Prosecutors are not elected positions.

In fact in Toronto, alot of them spend time after work together at the Osgoode Hall lol.

It's a job, it's role playing at it's finest, essentially both lawyers(defence and prosecution) are brokers for the accused and the accuser(s). The judge is the moderator. The judge and/or jury make the decision.

As far as whom he chooses to defend/not defend, again I feel he is leaving that open ended and has opened himself to slamming because he does not participate.

Surely a guy who has alot of questionable crazies as clients, who also thrives on raising his middle finger to the system making sure it stays fair, whom goes through threats none of us would wish would find it easy to engage with a bunch of us minions living in our Mom's basements

Just to for those who feel guilty people go free, realize then the opposite happens as well, the jails have alot of people in there convicted of things they were not a part of

[Las Vegas]

I hope you realize I am being sarcastic.

I have no problem with the dude, seems like a good guy, however I still stand by the fact that he should take the opportunity to engage/educate people in what he does more rather than just look at this thread daily waiting for people to change a subject, a divisive one, that he brought up in the first place.

I have experience in the legal system and know for a fact that there are both REAL GUILTY AS WELL AS NOT GUILTY people who go through the system. And when I talk GUILTY AND NOT GUILTY I mean literally clear as day. So I do understand what the job of a defence lawyer is, and that there are theatrics etc involved. And the same exact thing is done by the prosecution. EXACT!

Up here in Canada we have both prosecutors, judges and defence lawyers whom have played all three positions in their careers. Don't forget up here the positions of Judges and Prosecutors are not elected positions.

In fact in Toronto, alot of them spend time after work together at the Osgoode Hall lol.

It's a job, it's role playing at it's finest, essentially both lawyers(defence and prosecution) are brokers for the accused and the accuser(s). The judge is the moderator. The judge and/or jury make the decision.

As far as whom he chooses to defend/not defend, again I feel he is leaving that open ended and has opened himself to slamming because he does not participate.

Surely a guy who has alot of questionable crazies as clients, who also thrives on raising his middle finger to the system making sure it stays fair, whom goes through threats none of us would wish would find it easy to engage with a bunch of us minions living in our Mom's basements

Just to for those who feel guilty people go free, realize then the opposite happens as well, the jails have alot of people in there convicted of things they were not a part of

Really good post.  I agree.

Maybe with some of the other shit he's going through in life, though, he just can't take facing the ones on here who are determined to "show" he's "really" a bad guy with a dark heart.  SF1900 was trying to find information to "show" that, while having absolutely NO problem with dismissing other information which might show the opposite.  That's SF's business, I know, but come on.  Get a fucking better hobby, SF.

[Sokolsky]

Care to quote me where I have indicated anything like that?

You have stated on various accounts how you disagree with who you deem as 'obviously guilty' getting off with lesser than what you perceive as 'just' sentencing. As such you've made your position rather abundantly clear.

However;
A person is only guilty before the law if convicted and handed a judgement/sentence.

While you may disagree with the outcome of such a ruling, it is; the fault or malfunctioning of the judicial system.

You're actively trying to engage and antagonize a mere gear of the machine, as opposed to attacking the flaws in the system. Attorneys, just as much as the prosecutors, are an integral part of the system. And unless you can provide direct evidence of mal-practice or otherwise conflict with the law and proceedings on Harley's part. You simply have no standing in attacking Harley's character, or indeed morals.

And on that note, I won't dedicate any more words regarding this 'topic' to you.

as for the second bit, come and tell us hes a likeable guy when hes banging your wife or girlfriend.

In the highly unlikely case he would, then I would indeed come back and tell you he's a likeable guy. I'd also tell you I'd be divorced or single again. Since I do expect unconditional love and commitment from a significant other, but not necessarily from a friend.

Besides this, both would still remain likeable individuals, since I wouldn't have associated with them otherwise to begin with. Whether I would still associate with them afterwards would depend on their inherent value and my ability to cope. Simple as that.

[Simple Simon]

You have stated on various accounts how you disagree with who you deem as 'obviously guilty' getting off with lesser than what you perceive as 'just' sentencing. As such you've made your position rather abundantly clear.

However;
A person is only guilty before the law if convicted and handed a judgement/sentence.

While you may disagree with the outcome of such a ruling, it is; the fault or malfunctioning of the judicial system.

You're actively trying to engage and antagonize a mere gear of the machine, as opposed to attacking the flaws in the system. Attorneys, just as much as the prosecutors, are an integral part of the system. And unless you can provide direct evidence of mal-practice or otherwise conflict with the law and proceedings on Harley's part. You simply have no standing in attacking Harley's character, or indeed morals.

And on that note, I won't dedicate any more words regarding this 'topic' to you.

In the highly unlikely case he would, then I would indeed come back and tell you he's a likeable guy. I'd also tell you I'd be divorced or single again. Since I do expect unconditional love and commitment from a significant other, but not necessarily from a friend.

Besides this, both would still remain likeable individuals, since I wouldn't have associated with them otherwise to begin with. Whether I would still associate with them afterwards would depend on their inherent value and my ability to cope. Simple as that.

[Sokolsky]

I fucking love penguins.
no beastiality.

[Simple Simon]

I fucking love penguins.
no beastiality.

Harley wouldnt defend you on that one Im afraid.

[HarleyBreite]

Dear GetBig,
   Wow!!!  Very interesting the quick rush to judgment on some of the opinions set forth.
   It would be impossible to rebut all those posts but let me try to say some of what I have already said but in
a way you may choose to finally remember as well as attempt to better explain some of what you seek clarity.
   1)  I NEVER said I was a good and moral person.  I NEVER came here saying I was a saviour.  I NEVER said I was better
than ANY of you.  In fact, I have often stated that I, like all others, am a terribly flawed human being.  I commit transgressions
from both antipodes of the moral spectrum but there are some things I won't directly do.
   2)  The reason I don't represent animal abusers but represent child abusers is that I simply can't give it my "best shot" in
representing someone who I know for sure abused an animal.  What you may not know is that during a consultation, which is protected
under the Attorney Client Privilege, you very often can learn things that may convince you of your client's guilt, may cause you to seriously
doubt whether or not he did it and there are even times when you realize that an actual innocent person has been charged.
        Cases against animal abusers usually enter the office with such demonstrative proofs as to the accused's guilt that almost all the time,
my job would be to minimize the person's sentence.
        What you will not want to believe is that when a "child abuser" comes for a consult, the evidence (if even available at that time) is not so
convincingly clear as you all would think.  In fact, those cases are quite difficult to decipher in terms of motivations, truths and actual proofs.
I know you don't want to hear this but from my murderers, drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, etc, those proofs and cases are always
more devastating and convincing than a charge of child abuse.  You would be amazed at the reasons a child might lie or even without the child
giving any statement, the reasons why a pissed off GF or ex-wife makes such a claim and sometimes even convinces the child why they should lie.
        I AM NOT saying this happens all the time but it does occur enough for you to give an open ear to a guy who swears he didn't touch the kid and
then you see the proofs and you wonder does the Prosecutor really believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this guy did it?
       The issue of me not representing animal abusers is about the proofs and my ability not to give it my best effort.  I don't want to take a case and
short change a client.  That wouldn't be fair to him.  I signed up to be in the system and I ought to play by its rules, regardless of how screwed up some
of them might be.  If I can't zealously represent someone, I am the wrong guy.  
       When did I ever say this made sense?  I never did.  My moral barometer is my own just as each of you has his or her (Princess L, one of my biggest fans)
own moral barometer.  I would never drink and drive drunk.  I would never steal money from someone.  Others might.  That doesn't make them less moral than
myself.  You certainly don't have to agree with my moral readings but all of the personal vitriol thrown at me and over my job?  Even Pellius?  No one, not even
Pellius and Chaos truly believe that representing an accused is like being a Nazi Officer "taking orders."  You guys need to remember that clients ALMOST NEVER
come in and admit they did it.  I wasn't there, neither was the Prosecutor or cops.  How would I know what REALLY occurred?  And for that matter, how would you?
    3)  So let me get this straight:  I stay off the thread so you guys can spew all you like and in a most offensive manner and therefore I am a coward?  Really?
My life is a very open book.  You guys know what I do, where I do it and you can all find me.  That doesn't sound like the recipe for a guy who lives in fear, especially
of what people write on a website.  I am not a tough guy, I don't condone fighting other people and I don't like violence.  I don't believe I ever once bragged about
ANY of my achievements inside or outside of a courtroom.  Everything I ever claimed was audited to death by you guys.  YOU GUYS brought up that I won the BJJ
World Championships twice, not me.  And in the end, who cares about that?  That doesn't define me.
   4)  So many of you talk as if money is the only factor I consider.  How little you know of me yet so quick to make a judgment.  I have as many free cases for friends,
family and people whom I've never met as I do paying clients.  I don't boast or talk about it buy YOU raised the issue.  You have no idea how many GetBiggers have sent me
a PM asking me for legal help.  I have responded and helped ALL of them and NEVER dreamed of asking for money.  And of course, I don't mention that on the thread either.
        I will never apologize for making a living.  I don't lie to clients or cheat them.  Find me 5 out of 10 attorneys like that!!!  The money I make helps fund many other of my
personal projects which not only serve my own interests but help many others as well.  No,  I don't boast or mention that either.  Tons of people are helping tons of others and
there is no need to self promote any of it.  Did I post pictures of my charity for the mentally and physically challenged kids?  Of course I did and I did so to invite you all to come
to our parties and feel the joy you can give someone less fortunate than yourself and all for FREE.
   In closing, I didn't realize that the "defense attorney" was so reprehensible to so many of you.  That is your right to feel that way and I am not here to convince any of you
any other way.  What bothered me was the personal attacks against my character when you already knew what I did for a living and then failed to view me in a Gestalt perspective,
recognizing that we are all an amalgam of good and bad and hopefully the good outweighs the bad.
   I came to GetBig to have some fun, engage in interesting polite debate and learn about not only bodybuilding but other areas as well. I get enough death threats from my work and
wasn't seeking more negativity in my life.  One of my best friends died in a car accident before New Year's and now my very best friend and Mentor had a stroke leaving him
paralyzed.  Life is too difficult and short to deal with unecessary negativity.
   I NEVER came to attack anyone's character even if I disagreed with how they comported themselves or what they did for a living.
   I am comfortable in my (apparently thin) skin.  I have gone from obese to being in decent shape (for a NORMAL PERSON, not a GetBigger and yes, I am more narrow than Heath).
   I have an incredibly beautiful and wonderful girlfriend.  My Mom is healthy. I have good health and great family.
   I am ok not being wanted on a thread but most say that I very much enjoyed being here and interacting on all the different topics that came up before my moral failures.
Harley

[Simple Simon]

Dear GetBig,
   Wow!!!  Very interesting the quick rush to judgment on some of the opinions set forth.
   It would be impossible to rebut all those posts but let me try to say some of what I have already said but in
a way you may choose to finally remember as well as attempt to better explain some of what you seek clarity.
   1)  I NEVER said I was a good and moral person.  I NEVER came here saying I was a saviour.  I NEVER said I was better
than ANY of you.  In fact, I have often stated that I, like all others, am a terribly flawed human being.  I commit transgressions
from both antipodes of the moral spectrum but there are some things I won't directly do.
   2)  The reason I don't represent animal abusers but represent child abusers is that I simply can't give it my "best shot" in
representing someone who I know for sure abused an animal.  What you may not know is that during a consultation, which is protected
under the Attorney Client Privilege, you very often can learn things that may convince you of your client's guilt, may cause you to seriously
doubt whether or not he did it and there are even times when you realize that an actual innocent person has been charged.
        Cases against animal abusers usually enter the office with such demonstrative proofs as to the accused's guilt that almost all the time,
my job would be to minimize the person's sentence.
        What you will not want to believe is that when a "child abuser" comes for a consult, the evidence (if even available at that time) is not so
convincingly clear as you all would think.  In fact, those cases are quite difficult to decipher in terms of motivations, truths and actual proofs.
I know you don't want to hear this but from my murderers, drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, etc, those proofs and cases are always
more devastating and convincing than a charge of child abuse.  You would be amazed at the reasons a child might lie or even without the child
giving any statement, the reasons why a pissed off GF or ex-wife makes such a claim and sometimes even convinces the child why they should lie.
        I AM NOT saying this happens all the time but it does occur enough for you to give an open ear to a guy who swears he didn't touch the kid and
then you see the proofs and you wonder does the Prosecutor really believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this guy did it?
       The issue of me not representing animal abusers is about the proofs and my ability not to give it my best effort.  I don't want to take a case and
short change a client.  That wouldn't be fair to him.  I signed up to be in the system and I ought to play by its rules, regardless of how screwed up some
of them might be.  If I can't zealously represent someone, I am the wrong guy.  
       When did I ever say this made sense?  I never did.  My moral barometer is my own just as each of you has his or her (Princess L, one of my biggest fans)
own moral barometer.  I would never drink and drive drunk.  I would never steal money from someone.  Others might.  That doesn't make them less moral than
myself.  You certainly don't have to agree with my moral readings but all of the personal vitriol thrown at me and over my job?  Even Pellius?  No one, not even
Pellius and Chaos truly believe that representing an accused is like being a Nazi Officer "taking orders."  You guys need to remember that clients ALMOST NEVER
come in and admit they did it.  I wasn't there, neither was the Prosecutor or cops.  How would I know what REALLY occurred?  And for that matter, how would you?
    3)  So let me get this straight:  I stay off the thread so you guys can spew all you like and in a most offensive manner and therefore I am a coward?  Really?
My life is a very open book.  You guys know what I do, where I do it and you can all find me.  That doesn't sound like the recipe for a guy who lives in fear, especially
of what people write on a website.  I am not a tough guy, I don't condone fighting other people and I don't like violence.  I don't believe I ever once bragged about
ANY of my achievements inside or outside of a courtroom.  Everything I ever claimed was audited to death by you guys.  YOU GUYS brought up that I won the BJJ
World Championships twice, not me.  And in the end, who cares about that?  That doesn't define me.
   4)  So many of you talk as if money is the only factor I consider.  How little you know of me yet so quick to make a judgment.  I have as many free cases for friends,
family and people whom I've never met as I do paying clients.  I don't boast or talk about it buy YOU raised the issue.  You have no idea how many GetBiggers have sent me
a PM asking me for legal help.  I have responded and helped ALL of them and NEVER dreamed of asking for money.  And of course, I don't mention that on the thread either.
        I will never apologize for making a living.  I don't lie to clients or cheat them.  Find me 5 out of 10 attorneys like that!!!  The money I make helps fund many other of my
personal projects which not only serve my own interests but help many others as well.  No,  I don't boast or mention that either.  Tons of people are helping tons of others and
there is no need to self promote any of it.  Did I post pictures of my charity for the mentally and physically challenged kids?  Of course I did and I did so to invite you all to come
to our parties and feel the joy you can give someone less fortunate than yourself and all for FREE.
   In closing, I didn't realize that the "defense attorney" was so reprehensible to so many of you.  That is your right to feel that way and I am not here to convince any of you
any other way.  What bothered me was the personal attacks against my character when you already knew what I did for a living and then failed to view me in a Gestalt perspective,
recognizing that we are all an amalgam of good and bad and hopefully the good outweighs the bad.
   I came to GetBig to have some fun, engage in interesting polite debate and learn about not only bodybuilding but other areas as well. I get enough death threats from my work and
wasn't seeking more negativity in my life.  One of my best friends died in a car accident before New Year's and now my very best friend and Mentor had a stroke leaving him
paralyzed.  Life is too difficult and short to deal with unecessary negativity.
   I NEVER came to attack anyone's character even if I disagreed with how they comported themselves or what they did for a living.
   I am comfortable in my (apparently thin) skin.  I have gone from obese to being in decent shape (for a NORMAL PERSON, not a GetBigger and yes, I am more narrow than Heath).
   I have an incredibly beautiful and wonderful girlfriend.  My Mom is healthy. I have good health and great family.
   I am ok not being wanted on a thread but most say that I very much enjoyed being here and interacting on all the different topics that came up before my moral failures.
Harley

[SF1900]

Dear GetBig,
   Wow!!!  Very interesting the quick rush to judgment on some of the opinions set forth.
   It would be impossible to rebut all those posts but let me try to say some of what I have already said but in
a way you may choose to finally remember as well as attempt to better explain some of what you seek clarity.
   1)  I NEVER said I was a good and moral person.  I NEVER came here saying I was a saviour.  I NEVER said I was better
than ANY of you.  In fact, I have often stated that I, like all others, am a terribly flawed human being.  I commit transgressions
from both antipodes of the moral spectrum but there are some things I won't directly do.
   2)  The reason I don't represent animal abusers but represent child abusers is that I simply can't give it my "best shot" in
representing someone who I know for sure abused an animal.  What you may not know is that during a consultation, which is protected
under the Attorney Client Privilege, you very often can learn things that may convince you of your client's guilt, may cause you to seriously
doubt whether or not he did it and there are even times when you realize that an actual innocent person has been charged.
        Cases against animal abusers usually enter the office with such demonstrative proofs as to the accused's guilt that almost all the time,
my job would be to minimize the person's sentence.
        What you will not want to believe is that when a "child abuser" comes for a consult, the evidence (if even available at that time) is not so
convincingly clear as you all would think.  In fact, those cases are quite difficult to decipher in terms of motivations, truths and actual proofs.
I know you don't want to hear this but from my murderers, drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, etc, those proofs and cases are always
more devastating and convincing than a charge of child abuse.  You would be amazed at the reasons a child might lie or even without the child
giving any statement, the reasons why a pissed off GF or ex-wife makes such a claim and sometimes even convinces the child why they should lie.
        I AM NOT saying this happens all the time but it does occur enough for you to give an open ear to a guy who swears he didn't touch the kid and
then you see the proofs and you wonder does the Prosecutor really believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this guy did it?
       The issue of me not representing animal abusers is about the proofs and my ability not to give it my best effort.  I don't want to take a case and
short change a client.  That wouldn't be fair to him.  I signed up to be in the system and I ought to play by its rules, regardless of how screwed up some
of them might be.  If I can't zealously represent someone, I am the wrong guy.  
       When did I ever say this made sense?  I never did.  My moral barometer is my own just as each of you has his or her (Princess L, one of my biggest fans)
own moral barometer.  I would never drink and drive drunk.  I would never steal money from someone.  Others might.  That doesn't make them less moral than
myself.  You certainly don't have to agree with my moral readings but all of the personal vitriol thrown at me and over my job?  Even Pellius?  No one, not even
Pellius and Chaos truly believe that representing an accused is like being a Nazi Officer "taking orders."  You guys need to remember that clients ALMOST NEVER
come in and admit they did it.  I wasn't there, neither was the Prosecutor or cops.  How would I know what REALLY occurred?  And for that matter, how would you?
    3)  So let me get this straight:  I stay off the thread so you guys can spew all you like and in a most offensive manner and therefore I am a coward?  Really?
My life is a very open book.  You guys know what I do, where I do it and you can all find me.  That doesn't sound like the recipe for a guy who lives in fear, especially
of what people write on a website.  I am not a tough guy, I don't condone fighting other people and I don't like violence.  I don't believe I ever once bragged about
ANY of my achievements inside or outside of a courtroom.  Everything I ever claimed was audited to death by you guys.  YOU GUYS brought up that I won the BJJ
World Championships twice, not me.  And in the end, who cares about that?  That doesn't define me.
   4)  So many of you talk as if money is the only factor I consider.  How little you know of me yet so quick to make a judgment.  I have as many free cases for friends,
family and people whom I've never met as I do paying clients.  I don't boast or talk about it buy YOU raised the issue.  You have no idea how many GetBiggers have sent me
a PM asking me for legal help.  I have responded and helped ALL of them and NEVER dreamed of asking for money.  And of course, I don't mention that on the thread either.
        I will never apologize for making a living.  I don't lie to clients or cheat them.  Find me 5 out of 10 attorneys like that!!!  The money I make helps fund many other of my
personal projects which not only serve my own interests but help many others as well.  No,  I don't boast or mention that either.  Tons of people are helping tons of others and
there is no need to self promote any of it.  Did I post pictures of my charity for the mentally and physically challenged kids?  Of course I did and I did so to invite you all to come
to our parties and feel the joy you can give someone less fortunate than yourself and all for FREE.
   In closing, I didn't realize that the "defense attorney" was so reprehensible to so many of you.  That is your right to feel that way and I am not here to convince any of you
any other way.  What bothered me was the personal attacks against my character when you already knew what I did for a living and then failed to view me in a Gestalt perspective,
recognizing that we are all an amalgam of good and bad and hopefully the good outweighs the bad.
   I came to GetBig to have some fun, engage in interesting polite debate and learn about not only bodybuilding but other areas as well. I get enough death threats from my work and
wasn't seeking more negativity in my life.  One of my best friends died in a car accident before New Year's and now my very best friend and Mentor had a stroke leaving him
paralyzed.  Life is too difficult and short to deal with unecessary negativity.
   I NEVER came to attack anyone's character even if I disagreed with how they comported themselves or what they did for a living.
   I am comfortable in my (apparently thin) skin.  I have gone from obese to being in decent shape (for a NORMAL PERSON, not a GetBigger and yes, I am more narrow than Heath).
   I have an incredibly beautiful and wonderful girlfriend.  My Mom is healthy. I have good health and great family.
   I am ok not being wanted on a thread but most say that I very much enjoyed being here and interacting on all the different topics that came up before my moral failures.
Harley

Harley, you are not an expert on child abuse. Ive already provide you with ample evidence that in the majority of cases, children recant for many reasons, even when they are abused. Yet, you keep falling back on the same old argument that children lie about sexual abuse. Yes, some do, but the MAJORITY of them do not. You obviously do not know the evidence about child sexual abuse, so please stop bringing up that argument. Its already been demonstrated in countless studies by EXPERTS that the majority of children who recant, were, in fact, sexually abused.

Your lawyer tactics will not work on here. This is what you do to convince a jury that the child was laying--you tell them that the child recanted, therefore they must be lying, and your client is innocent! You may be able to fool them, but you cannot fool me or others here. As stated above, the majority of children who recant, were, in fact sexually abused. This is exactly what scummy lawyers do. They present false evidence to jurors to win the case. In a case of sexual abuse, any lawyer will keep an expert on abuse (forensic expert, medical doctor, therapist) off of the trial, because they know they will see right through their lies.

Theorists and researchers have attempted to explain why sexually abused children deny or recant sexual abuse. Koverola and Foy (1993) have reported that victims of sexual abuse often display symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). According to Koverola and Foy (1993), "children suffering from PTSD often enter an avoidance phase," in which they deny abuse or recant because they cannot cope with the anxiety aroused by traumatic memories. According to Koverola and Foy (1993), anxiety about court appearances or a change in the home environment may lead to denial or recantation.

Rieser ( 1991 ) has suggested that children may recant if they feel isolated from their natural support systems. Other writers speculate that recantation and denial may be a way for victims to "make it all go away" (Gonzalez, Waterman, Kelly, McCord, & Oliveri. 1993). In a summary of anecdotal evidence from psychotherapists. Fontes (1993) found that certain cultural groups may recant more often than others due to cultural taboos regarding sexual abuse. Research suggests that loyalty to family members. or fear of their reaction to abuse allegations. may also contribute to some denials, recantations, and reluctance to disclose (Farrell, 1988. Lawson & Chaffin, 1992; Sauzier. 1989).

Some authors have argued that denial and recantation are part of a process experienced by many victims of sexual abuse (Sorenson & Snow. 1991; Summit. 1983). In an influential article, Summit (1983; see also Summit. 1992) has described the disclosure process as the "Child Sexual Abuse Accommodation Syndrome" (CSAAS). The CSAAS consists of five stages: (1) secrecy; (2) helplessness: (3) entrapment and accommodation; (4) delayed, unconvincing disclosure; and (5) retraction. According to Summit (1983), children retract their statements as part of a process of dealing with sexual abuse victimization.

[Sokolsky]

.

You owe no explanations.


If I may ask;
I have found myself listening more to music and especially composers such as Ludovico Einaudi since I relapsed in my depression.
Do you find you started listening more to music or whether your musical taste has shifted as your facing these recent situations?
And if so, any recommendations such as composers you like? Or bands for that matter?

How do you cope with your daily struggles, which are significantly strenuous by the sounds of it, not just from your job alone?
Are you aided by 'professional help' of any sort? (As I recently decided to).


I'm sorry for the latter, rather personal, question. Or if any such question were raised before, as I did not partake in the entirity of this thread.

[HarleyBreite]

You owe no explanations.


If I may ask;
I have found myself listening more to music and especially composers such as Ludovico Einaudi since I relapsed in my depression.
Do you find you started listening more to music or whether your musical taste has shifted as your facing these recent situations?
And if so, any recommendations such as composers you like? Or bands for that matter?

How do you cope with your daily struggles, which are significantly strenuous by the sounds of it, not just from your job alone?
Are you aided by 'professional help' of any sort? (As I recently decided to).


I'm sorry for the latter, rather personal, question. Or if any such question were raised before, as I did not partake in the entirity of this thread.

Dear Sokolsky,
  I agree I don't owe anyone here an explanation but in fairness, I came here to have open and fair discussions so that does put me on the limb a bit.
  It's funny you mention music as a therapy during depression.  I had the exact opposite reaction.  I couldn't listen to anything as it seemed to have some
incredibly circuitous connection to the matter which was bothering me.  I just had trouble with music which made driving more difficult as I like to use the
radio or cd to take my mind off matters.  The old familiar voices of some sports radio guys would help a bit but I find discussions of team sports quite boring.
  As far as bands, given that my depression was related to my missing my girlfriend during an extended period of not being able to see one another, my usual
daily dose of Journey had to be curtailed (too depressing despite the vocal genius of Steve Perry).  I am a big Bob Seger fan too.  Once things straightened out
with my girlfriend, it was back to Iron Maiden, Journey, .38 Special and my "Workout Music."
  I am not aided by any professional help but I do believe it is very worthwhile for many people.  I am also a big advocate for medicine that helps fight the
anxiety and tension although I don't take it myself.  I believe that science can go a long way in making us feel better and not have
to struggle with diseases and ailments that simply ruin peoples' lives.  There is no shame in taking medicine.  I just don't think I rose to the level where a
doctor would give it to me.  Also, I don't have health insurance.
  In coping with daily struggles,  I found that when I was so terribly recently depressed, I just relied on my friends.  I let them see me cry (ok, GetBig, there it is-
go at it) and I let them know I was hurting.  Real friends showed up without asking.  They called every day and when I was hit with anxiety and having a bad day,
I would call them and tell them.  True friends, while rare, are a true treasure.  Call your friends.  They will surprise you with their compassion and giving.
  Also, I tried to isolate what the issue of my depression was and thought about how to fix it.  I must admit,  I was extremely lucky in that it all worked out but
nevertheless, I did put some work into it.
  I hope this helps a bit.
Sincerely,
Harley

[Sokolsky]

Dear Sokolsky,
  I agree I don't owe anyone here an explanation but in fairness, I came here to have open and fair discussions so that does put me on the limb a bit.

True, yet when people are actively trying to derail an otherwise civil enough conversation, it's simply not worth it. Atleast in my opinion. Especially given that people seem to take unreasonable offense to your profession, although all would be happy for you to represent them (although we're all saints of course).

 

It's funny you mention music as a therapy during depression.  I had the exact opposite reaction.  I couldn't listen to anything as it seemed to have some incredibly circuitous connection to the matter which was bothering me.  I just had trouble with music which made driving more difficult as I like to use the radio or cd to take my mind off matters.  The old familiar voices of some sports radio guys would help a bit but I find discussions of team sports quite boring.  As far as bands, given that my depression was related to my missing my girlfriend during an extended period of not being able to see one another, my usual daily dose of Journey had to be curtailed (too depressing despite the vocal genius of Steve Perry).  I am a big Bob Seger fan too.  Once things straightened out with my girlfriend, it was back to Iron Maiden, Journey, .38 Special and my "Workout Music."   I am not aided by any professional help but I do believe it is very worthwhile for many people.  I am also a big advocate for medicine that helps fight the anxiety and tension although I don't take it myself.  I believe that science can go a long way in making us feel better and not have to struggle with diseases and ailments that simply ruin peoples' lives.  There is no shame in taking medicine.  I just don't think I rose to the level where a doctor would give it to me.  Also, I don't have health insurance.  In coping with daily struggles,  I found that when I was so terribly recently depressed, I just relied on my friends.  I let them see me cry (ok, GetBig, there it is-go at it) and I let them know I was hurting.  Real friends showed up without asking.  They called every day and when I was hit with anxiety and having a bad day, I would call them and tell them.  True friends, while rare, are a true treasure.  Call your friends.  They will surprise you with their compassion and giving.  Also, I tried to isolate what the issue of my depression was and thought about how to fix it.  I must admit,  I was extremely lucky in that it all worked out but nevertheless, I did put some work into it.
  I hope this helps a bit.
Sincerely,
Harley

I believe much has got to do with people being afraid to seek help. I dreaded the phonecall I made to my parents a few days ago, I'm hopeful that I can find a solution or at least cope better (preferably without taking drugs). I just need stop being stubborn and open up to peoples' views and accepting them. Friends and family to this extend help a lot, or atleast the ones I've told. They are truly wonderful people, and its definitely telling in these types of situations on who you can count and whom are merely superficially there.

I can also say that pets, dogs and cats especially, are true life-savers. I had an encounter last week, when I was feeling especially down, with a beautiful dog that jumped in my arms when I took a knee to pet him. They are able to bring so much joy so effortlessly, and seem to know what's up on a much higher level than we do amongst ourselves. Which has prompted me looking into the possibility of getting a four-legged companion.

Music and walking for now provides a much needed distraction from everything, though I too try to avoid songs which trigger negative emotions.
I dread the moments before going to bed though, as I won't have distractions then.

Thanks for your response

[chaos]

Dear GetBig,
   Wow!!!  Very interesting the quick rush to judgment on some of the opinions set forth.
   It would be impossible to rebut all those posts but let me try to say some of what I have already said but in
a way you may choose to finally remember as well as attempt to better explain some of what you seek clarity.
   1)  I NEVER said I was a good and moral person.  I NEVER came here saying I was a saviour.  I NEVER said I was better
than ANY of you.  In fact, I have often stated that I, like all others, am a terribly flawed human being.  I commit transgressions
from both antipodes of the moral spectrum but there are some things I won't directly do.
   2)  The reason I don't represent animal abusers but represent child abusers is that I simply can't give it my "best shot" in
representing someone who I know for sure abused an animal.  What you may not know is that during a consultation, which is protected
under the Attorney Client Privilege, you very often can learn things that may convince you of your client's guilt, may cause you to seriously
doubt whether or not he did it and there are even times when you realize that an actual innocent person has been charged.
        Cases against animal abusers usually enter the office with such demonstrative proofs as to the accused's guilt that almost all the time,
my job would be to minimize the person's sentence.
        What you will not want to believe is that when a "child abuser" comes for a consult, the evidence (if even available at that time) is not so
convincingly clear as you all would think.  In fact, those cases are quite difficult to decipher in terms of motivations, truths and actual proofs.
I know you don't want to hear this but from my murderers, drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, etc, those proofs and cases are always
more devastating and convincing than a charge of child abuse.  You would be amazed at the reasons a child might lie or even without the child
giving any statement, the reasons why a pissed off GF or ex-wife makes such a claim and sometimes even convinces the child why they should lie.
        I AM NOT saying this happens all the time but it does occur enough for you to give an open ear to a guy who swears he didn't touch the kid and
then you see the proofs and you wonder does the Prosecutor really believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this guy did it?
       The issue of me not representing animal abusers is about the proofs and my ability not to give it my best effort.  I don't want to take a case and
short change a client.  That wouldn't be fair to him.  I signed up to be in the system and I ought to play by its rules, regardless of how screwed up some
of them might be.  If I can't zealously represent someone, I am the wrong guy.  
       When did I ever say this made sense?  I never did.  My moral barometer is my own just as each of you has his or her (Princess L, one of my biggest fans)
own moral barometer.  I would never drink and drive drunk.  I would never steal money from someone.  Others might.  That doesn't make them less moral than
myself.  You certainly don't have to agree with my moral readings but all of the personal vitriol thrown at me and over my job?  Even Pellius?  No one, not even
Pellius and Chaos truly believe that representing an accused is like being a Nazi Officer "taking orders."  You guys need to remember that clients ALMOST NEVER
come in and admit they did it.  I wasn't there, neither was the Prosecutor or cops.  How would I know what REALLY occurred?  And for that matter, how would you?
    3)  So let me get this straight:  I stay off the thread so you guys can spew all you like and in a most offensive manner and therefore I am a coward?  Really?
My life is a very open book.  You guys know what I do, where I do it and you can all find me.  That doesn't sound like the recipe for a guy who lives in fear, especially
of what people write on a website.  I am not a tough guy, I don't condone fighting other people and I don't like violence.  I don't believe I ever once bragged about
ANY of my achievements inside or outside of a courtroom.  Everything I ever claimed was audited to death by you guys.  YOU GUYS brought up that I won the BJJ
World Championships twice, not me.  And in the end, who cares about that?  That doesn't define me.
   4)  So many of you talk as if money is the only factor I consider.  How little you know of me yet so quick to make a judgment.  I have as many free cases for friends,
family and people whom I've never met as I do paying clients.  I don't boast or talk about it buy YOU raised the issue.  You have no idea how many GetBiggers have sent me
a PM asking me for legal help.  I have responded and helped ALL of them and NEVER dreamed of asking for money.  And of course, I don't mention that on the thread either.
        I will never apologize for making a living.  I don't lie to clients or cheat them.  Find me 5 out of 10 attorneys like that!!!  The money I make helps fund many other of my
personal projects which not only serve my own interests but help many others as well.  No,  I don't boast or mention that either.  Tons of people are helping tons of others and
there is no need to self promote any of it.  Did I post pictures of my charity for the mentally and physically challenged kids?  Of course I did and I did so to invite you all to come
to our parties and feel the joy you can give someone less fortunate than yourself and all for FREE.
   In closing, I didn't realize that the "defense attorney" was so reprehensible to so many of you.  That is your right to feel that way and I am not here to convince any of you
any other way.  What bothered me was the personal attacks against my character when you already knew what I did for a living and then failed to view me in a Gestalt perspective,
recognizing that we are all an amalgam of good and bad and hopefully the good outweighs the bad.
   I came to GetBig to have some fun, engage in interesting polite debate and learn about not only bodybuilding but other areas as well. I get enough death threats from my work and
wasn't seeking more negativity in my life.  One of my best friends died in a car accident before New Year's and now my very best friend and Mentor had a stroke leaving him
paralyzed.  Life is too difficult and short to deal with unecessary negativity.
   I NEVER came to attack anyone's character even if I disagreed with how they comported themselves or what they did for a living.
   I am comfortable in my (apparently thin) skin.  I have gone from obese to being in decent shape (for a NORMAL PERSON, not a GetBigger and yes, I am more narrow than Heath).
   I have an incredibly beautiful and wonderful girlfriend.  My Mom is healthy. I have good health and great family.
   I am ok not being wanted on a thread but most say that I very much enjoyed being here and interacting on all the different topics that came up before my moral failures.
Harley

TL:DR:FY

[pellius]

I think a Nazi Officer has less options than a private attorney. When I used that analogy it was in the sense of is it enough for a person to say, "I was just doing my job." To justify an injustice. Such as getting a guilty person off.

But on to more important things as I've been dying to ask you this.
What did you think about Royce/Shamrock fight? Even though these two are over the hill I considered this a historical event. I was training at Rorion's academy and remember Rorion conceiving the event. When it finally got rolling for real it was coming out that Rorion was "fixing" the event in Royce's favor in the sense of picking opponents Rorion was sure Royce would beat. If you had no grappling experience in those days you were going to lose. And in those days there was very little "real" fighting in martial arts. And no where was there more "non fighting" than in modern martial arts which are run more like a business than a sport. Pancrase I think was the only thing close.

Rorion really, really didn't want Shamrock to compete and did everything he could keep him out. Shamrock was a real athlete with real ground experience and competed in Pancrase just coming off a win with Funaki. Royce was the least experienced and least tested of the Helio Gracie clan. he never went through the tournament and Vale Tudo ringer like the rest of his brothers did. Rorion brought Royce to American when he was only 17-18 and still just a purple belt to him with the teaching. Jean Jacques once joke sarcastically that it wasn't Rolls or Rickson who was the most talented but it was Royce since he was the only one to go from being a purple belt to a black belt completely skipping the brown belt stage.  

When Rorion called on Rigan and Jean-Jacque to help with Royce's training for his fight against Mark Kerr I remember after their first day training with Royce, Jean-Jacques remarked how surprise he was with Royce's level. He told me that if Royce was at his school he would be considered an advance purple belt. He said that he and Rigan just repeated crushed him. Even some of the students like Ricco Rodriguez (who was blue belt at the time) would beat him.

Anyway, I think John McCarthy should have refereed the fight to make it historically complete and come full circle. It was such a disgrace and a let down and I blame it all on the ref. He may have missed the groin shot but he shouldn't have stopped it like he did. Not for this fight. Not for all the fans that payed good money to watch this historic event. He should have stood them back up, let Shamrock recover, and then let them fight.

This was no fight. After all these years, these two pioneers finally get together for once last horrah and to just stop it like this. I was never a huge fan of Shamrock but I really feel bad for him. All that will be remembered is that with his last fight with Royce he was TKOed in the first round.

BTW, as time went on I really grew to have a lot of respect for Royce. He was thrust into a position he wasn't ready for and a lot of pressure and expectations were put on him that he wasn't ready for. What was Rorion thinking putting him against Wallid, a tried and true tested top BJJ  player who even gave Jean Jacques a hard time when Wallid was still a brown belt. It wasn't Royce's fault. But he developed into a tough as nails MMA fighter and warrior. Unlike Rickson, he always stepped up to fight anybody.

[pellius]

TL:DR:FY

I forgot what "FY" means.

BTW, you can skip over my previous post though I suspect you already did.

[chaos]

I forgot what "FY" means.

BTW, you can skip over my previous post though I suspect you already did.

Fuck You

[pellius]

Fuck You

Ah. How could I forget.

[SF1900]

Harley, a muslim woman just chopped off a kids head. Better run to defend her:

Harley: "Your honor, clearly that is not my client on video."
Judge: "Um, it shows her face right there."
Harley: "We all know videotapes can be rigged. My client is innocent."
Judge: "Harley, the evidence is overwhelming. She even confessed, and we have her on video."
Harley: "Your honor, lets strike a plea deal. 2 years in prison, 1 year with good behavior."
Judge: "Mr. Harley, she murdered a child."
Harley: "This is preposterous! The justice system is rigged. Good thing I am here to get a child murderer off in 2 years. Now I can go on getbig and try to convince people that I am still a very moral person, even though I am trying to get a child murderer a 2 year sentence. Just doing my job."
Judge: "I am holding you in contempt."
Harley: "YOUR HONOR!! LOOK AT MY PAINTINGS!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Judge: "Now youre trying to bribe me with one of your painting?"
Harley: "I will judo chop your forehead."
Judge: "30 days in county!"

[chaos]

Harley, a muslim woman just chopped off a kids head. Better run to defend her:

Harley: "Your honor, clearly that is not my client on video."
Judge: "Um, it shows her face right there."
Harley: "We all know videotapes can be rigged. My client is innocent."
Judge: "Harley, the evidence is overwhelming. She even confessed, and we have her on video."
Harley: "Your honor, lets strike a plea deal. 2 years in prison, 1 year with good behavior."
Judge: "Mr. Harley, she murdered a child."
Harley: "This is preposterous! The justice system is rigged. Good thing I am here to get a child murderer off in 2 years. Now I can go on getbig and try to convince people that I am still a very moral person, even though I am trying to get a child murderer a 2 year sentence. Just doing my job."
Judge: "I am holding you in contempt."
Harley: "YOUR HONOR!! LOOK AT MY PAINTINGS!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Judge: "Now youre trying to bribe me with one of your painting?"
Harley: "I will judo chop your forehead."
Judge: "30 days in county!"

JUDO CHOP!!!! LMAO

[Simple Simon]

rape a child, Harleys your man, just dont kick the dog on the way out.

[Rascal full]

I have a question for those constantly slating Harley. This idiot that Harley is defending obviously this disgusts you all. My question is what is the alternative? Would you rather live in a society where there is no legal framework to target criminals? Surely somebody has to state his case or we start to regress as a society and what then? Do we act as a lynch mob and start hanging those deemed beyond the pale?

Interesting to watch the twists and turns of this thread, it's ironic how the defense attorney appears to be the one on trial.

[calfzilla]

I have a question for those constantly slating Harley. This idiot that Harley is defending obviously this disgusts you all. My question is what is the alternative? Would you rather live in a society where there is no legal framework to target criminals? Surely somebody has to state his case or we start to regress as a society and what then? Do we act as a lynch mob and start hanging those deemed beyond the pale?

Interesting to watch the twists and turns of this thread, it's ironic how the defense attorney appears to be the one on trial.

Careful you are making too much sense.

Some getbiggers on here should go easier on Harley or else he may leave and we will once again have Goodrum as our #1 insider.