Great article on atheism.

[10pints]

Lucius Annaeus Seneca.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

[SF1900]

I'm impressed, this is a very reasonable, sincere answer!  

It happens every so often!  

[SF1900]

it is clear humans seek happiness, is that the pinnacle of human potential though?

Its an impossible question to answer.

I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.

There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.

Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?

As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

[10pints]

10pints:

"Truth does not exist. Enlightenment does."

[Irongrip400]

Mormons are nice folks. Never met a pissed Mormon and most of the women are decent looking and are okay with domestic life. They plan for natural disasters with food storage and shit like that. It's just the shit like not drinking and gambling and all of the cool stuff that makes it not something I'd want to do. I'd be down with the multiple wives though. From talking to some, they don't believe in hell and that God is a father figure who isn't out to punish you. I had a physics professor who was Mormon and I never thought of him as an idiot. Just a real nice guy who probably didn't go home and beat his wife(s).

[pellius]

of course it is. Would you ever say to your daughter obey me or you will burn forever, it's her choice of course. She just has to choose in the manner which pleases him, otherwise, eternal torture.

Eternal anything as a punishment for finite acts is completely amoral.

Why? And by being "amoral" then it's not a matter of right or wrong so what does it matter?

If someone murders your daughter that is not a finite act. She is gone forever.

And why is there even a relationship between finite acts and eternal consequences? Say you're a drug addict and fry your brain for the rest of your life. You take steroids and now your kidneys are shot and you are on dialysis
for the rest of your list.

[pellius]

And where is the opposition to these coming from? The religious right and why? Because a Bronze-age myth told them it's wrong. Stop being disingenuous.

Roe v Wade is a matter of State rights. It was simply bad law. Nothing to do with religion.

When life begins is also not a matter of religion but a legal definition. In the case of partial birth
abortion the fetus, the fetus is viable -- meaning it can exist outside the womb.

Take the hypothetical: when a partial birth abortion is performed the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal, except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb).  The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors.  He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine.  This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby. 

Now say when performing this procedure the head accidentally slips out of the birth canal and now you have a
living, albeit premature, baby lying on the surgical table. What now? Can you still puncture it's skull?

[pellius]

Religious beliefs have been bastardized to death to give people an excuse to hate and kill each other.

Nothing comes even remotely close to the murder of innocent people than Communism. Not a religious based
ideology.

[pellius]

I hope that isn't an invitation for me to open a very large can of whup-ass on abortion, because I will rain science down on your nihilistic asses until you beg your Gaia for the sweet release of death.

LOL! I probably agree with you on just about everything regarding religion and politics, but man I'd like to see that can of whup ass based on science.

I'm always willing to learn a thing or two.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Roe v Wade is a matter of State rights. It was simply bad law. Nothing to do with religion.

When life begins is also not a matter of religion but a legal definition. In the case of partial birth
abortion the fetus, the fetus is viable -- meaning it can exist outside the womb.

Take the hypothetical: when a partial birth abortion is performed the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal, except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb).  The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors.  He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine.  This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby. 

Now say when performing this procedure the head accidentally slips out of the birth canal and now you have a
living, albeit premature, baby lying on the surgical table. What now? Can you still puncture it's skull?

You didn't answer the question.

[pellius]

You didn't answer the question.

The issue was that opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is solely based on religious beliefs.

As it is being debated in our society the religious aspect is not a consideration. Some may base their positions on these matters and some don't. But your arguments for or against cannot be based on religion as these are legal matters (though to some they are moral as well). I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage, along with my arguments supporting my beliefs, is not religious base.

You don't have to be religious to be oppose to stealing, cruelty or murder.

[pellius]

going to work, paying bills, watching a basketball game, taking kids to band practice, buying a house, dating/getting married, family get togethers, going to the park, going to the beach, having babies....normal, everyday stuff and that's enough for them.  

yes, believing in a mythical being is definitely abnormal.

Well, I don't know about that. The vast majority of the people of the world throughout history believed in some kind of deity. Even today in America, the majority consider themselves believers in the sense that the world was
created and didn't just always exist or popped up out of nowhere.

[NarcissisticDeity]

The issue was that opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is solely based on religious beliefs.

As it is being debated in our society the religious aspect is not a consideration. Some may base their positions on these matters and some don't. But your arguments for or against cannot be based on religion as these are legal matters (though to some they are moral as well). I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage, along with my arguments supporting my beliefs, is not religious base.

You don't have to be religious to be oppose to stealing, cruelty or murder.

All of the push on both fronts were from the religious right and the Republican party that pandered to them. This isn't debatable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion

[pellius]

God created the world with the ability to see the future. Placed a Tree in a garden that had knowledge of good and evil and told Adam and Eve not to eat it. They eat it much to his surprise and we are damned for eternity. Then Adam and Eve procreate to populate the earth. God is unhappy with how the inhabitants are acting and floods the earth killing all but 8 and 2 of all the animals of the world except the unicorns who were busy playing. Again the earth is repopulated but again we disappoint god. He then sends himself down in the form of Jesus "his son" but it's really him.. who acts like a sacrificial animal and is killed to pay the debt we owe for being born, because Adam ate the fruit. However if we don't accept this free gift.. we have to spend an eternity in hell. But he loves us... and sometimes, he answers your prayers if he wants to.....

Yeah.. that's something I can sink my teeth into   

Yes, if God knew all that was going to happen -- a world he created that he knew was going to contain far, far more bad and evil than good then this is not an argument against the existence of a God. Rather it begs the far more interesting question, at least for me, as to whether or not God is good?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yes, if God knew all that was going to happen -- a world he created that he knew was going to contain far, far more bad and evil than good then this is not an argument against the existence of a God. Rather it begs the far more interesting question, at least for me, as to whether or not God is good?

[pellius]

All of the push on both fronts were from the religious right and the Republican party that pandered to them. This isn't debatable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion

It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.

And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.

When people of faith and the Republicans "push" their ideology then it is called "brain washing." When the Left does the  exact same thing it is called "education."

[pellius]

And this is the issue that all theist should admit and struggle with. To say that God has a plan and everything
happens for a reason and that we are simply unequip to understand it does not cut it because we are the ones
who suffer the consequences through unspeakable pain and suffering.

This is where the theist are often dishonest and makes excuses for God permitting the grave injustices in this world.

Another point where they are not honest is that they don't simply admit that it is easier going through life
believing that there is an eternal Cosmic justice and the good will be rewarded and the bad punished.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.

And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.

When people of faith and the Republicans "push" their ideology then it is called "brain washing." When the Left does the  exact same thing it is called "education."

It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.

No kidding these are legal issues. Fought tooth-and-nail by the religious right whose sole opposition is because of the Holy book

And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.

The difference is I'm not denying the left pushed for gay equality and abortion. They're not doing it because of a Bronze-Age myth told them to. Gay people should marry because under the law we're all considered " equal " Back then the Church ruled with an iron first but they're all but powerless now.

[pellius]

No kidding these are legal issues. Fought tooth-and-nail by the religious right whose sole opposition is because of the Holy book

The difference is I'm not denying the left pushed for gay equality and abortion. They're not doing it because of a Bronze-Age myth told them to. Gay people should marry because under the law we're all considered " equal " Back then the Church ruled with an iron first but they're all but powerless now.

Again, I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is not religious bases. I was oppose to both of these even when I was an agnostic.

I don't get his constant reference to this "Bronze-Age myth that told them to". Gay people had the same rights as everybody else to marry. Everyone had the right to be legally recognized in their marriage to a member of the opposite sex -- gay or straight. Nobody had the legally recognized right to marry a member of the same sex -- gay or straight. They wanted special rights. Rights that had never existed throughout human history.

As Arnold said during his first run for Governor: "I support gay marriage as long as it's between a man and a woman."

Of course, anybody can do what they want in their personal lives. Hugh Hefner was for all practical purposes a polygamous. One of my uncles got married to his boyfriend back in the 1980s and are still together playing house.
Only difference with Hefner and my uncle is that they don't demand that society accept, endorse, recognize and honor their lifestyle. They just did their own thing and didn't impose their lifestyle on others.

[The Ugly]

Heaven should be existing eternally in your happiest living moment, like what the injun in Green Mile wanted. But nothingness probably ain't so bad either.

[Radical Plato]

Only difference with Hefner and my uncle is that they don't demand that society accept, endorse, recognize and honor their lifestyle. They just did their own thing and didn't impose their lifestyle on others.

If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.

[The Ugly]

If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.

JWs f'n force you to be confrontational. Seriously, I try to be nice, knowing they're obligated to sell their nonsense at my doorstep. But nice invites them back, thinking maybe they've got a live one.

Just went back to playing 'hit the deck,' like before.

[Croatch]

Are there still adults who believe in fairy tales...that's cute.  You guys should read Peter Pan...another good story.
How anyone buys into any religion is comical.  You drank the Kool Aid.
If someone showed you a bible for the first time at the age of 30, you would laugh I their face if they tried to pawn it off as a real story.

[BigRo]

Its an impossible question to answer.

I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.

There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.

Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?

As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

I am happy right now drinking my morning coffee, with my dog at my side and my girlfriend in the kitchen, knowing I am going on holiday in 4 days with my parents. This is a certain kind of happiness and I am grateful for it. I don't equate it with the full flowering of my potential though. After-all a bum on the street would not want more than to have a warm bed, a warm meal and a hot drink at night. I am sure you have heard of maslows hierarchy of needs. To me self actualization is more than the genius of thought or invention. And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense. However I would not say there is only one way to get there, only one correct path. Nor do I spend much time trying to convince others of my views.

[_bruce_]

Mormons are nice folks. Never met a pissed Mormon and most of the women are decent looking and are okay with domestic life. They plan for natural disasters with food storage and shit like that. It's just the shit like not drinking and gambling and all of the cool stuff that makes it not something I'd want to do. I'd be down with the multiple wives though. From talking to some, they don't believe in hell and that God is a father figure who isn't out to punish you. I had a physics professor who was Mormon and I never thought of him as an idiot. Just a real nice guy who probably didn't go home and beat his wife(s).

Great folks.