"Stimulate, don't annihilate"

[_aj_]

Just bullshit.

[Yamcha]

Worked for Lee.
To each his own.
Toot your own horn.
No homo.

[Simple Simon]

Just bullshit.

4 Olympia's and counting....

[Nails]

i would love to use his theory in my daily gym routine , however i am not on steriods , will this method work for non steroid users as well?

[Henda]

Only works for the genetic elite.
Most of us train hard and will always look like shit relatively speaking, a lucky few can thrive on this type of training (or any type for that matter)

[Uncle Joon]

4 Olympia's and counting....

That's Lee Haney quote not Phil Heath

[Nether Animal]

That's Lee Haney quote not Phil Heath

I take it you haven't watched Phil train? Not missing much..

[SF1900]

Phil getting HUGE on plate loaded presses!!

[local hero]

Phil getting HUGE on plate loaded presses!!

Yeh but he is....

[Uncle Joon]

Just bullshit.

its neither bullshit nor true it simply is irrelevant to the discussion of muscle hypertrophy which goes in this exact order.
1) Genetics
2) Genetic reponse to gear
3) Nutrition
4) Training
5) Rest/recovery

You have to bear in mind the reason  why the vast majority of emphasis in bodybuilding is usually based on training articles in the media or magazine publications is because it it is the most visible and "cool" part of the overal process. Essentially what sells magazines etc.

Having said that what Haney is saying makes perfect sense.

Imagine you have been training your shitty lagging triceps with 20 sets twice a week.
Then you train them for 40 sets twice a week.

And you realise the net difference in result after few months or even years is sweet fuck all.

Then why waste all that time in the gym. What exactly is that extra 20 sets doing for you? Nothing is the answer other than eating into your recovery

U need to do the least you can get away with because the least you can get away with in training is the most recovery you will get by default. Direct correlation between the two.

So what I am saying is it doesnt matter after while how u train it won't make no difference to your results because training is NOT what gets u the results in the first place or the most important thing

[Uncle Joon]

I take it you haven't watched Phil train? Not missing much..

Well if Phil Heath said that then he stole that quote from Lee.
Doesn't surprise me.

[SF1900]

Yeh but he is....

4x Mr. Olympia? 

[affeman]

[_aj_]

For the most part people work out as hard as they are going to. They either put the effort into volume or intensity. Rare is the individual that can maintain psychotic intensity across a large volume. "Rare" and likely often injured, even if they are on the sauce.

If a normal or normal-enhanced person backs off on volume, they are likely going to up the intensity and vice versa. The only way that an experienced lifter would back off both is if he is going to a "light day" ("deload" in the current zeitgeist). Since you can just as likely "annihilate" with intensity as with volume, most folks that are used to annihilation will just annihilate using a different method.

Then there is the Heaths of the world that just pretend train and let the hyper-response to the gear do all the work.

[_aj_]

its neither bullshit nor true it simply is irrelevant to the discussion of muscle hypertrophy which goes in this exact order.
1) Genetics
2) Genetic reponse to gear
3) Nutrition
4) Training
5) Rest/recovery

You have to bear in mind the reason  why the vast majority of emphasis in bodybuilding is usually based on training articles in the media or magazine publications is because it it is the most visible and "cool" part of the overal process. Essentially what sells magazines etc.

Having said that what Haney is saying makes perfect sense.

Imagine you have been training your shitty lagging triceps with 20 sets twice a week.
Then you train them for 40 sets twice a week.

And you realise the net difference in result after few months or even years is sweet fuck all.

Then why waste all that time in the gym. What exactly is that extra 20 sets doing for you? Nothing is the answer other than eating into your recovery

U need to do the least you can get away with because the least you can get away with in training is the most recovery you will get by default. Direct correlation between the two.

So what I am saying is it doesnt matter after while how u train it won't make no difference to your results because training is NOT what gets u the results in the first place or the most important thing

Haha! It has been my experience with my shitty lagging triceps that got me thinking about this. I do volume OR intensity. My triceps are ALWAYS annihilated: work to failure, cramping, DOMS, but nothing moves the needle.

[SF1900]

Haha! It has been my experience with my shitty lagging triceps that got me thinking about this. I do volume OR intensity. My triceps are ALWAYS annihilated: work to failure, cramping, DOMS, but nothing moves the needle.

AJ and Uncle Junior getting along in this thread.

[_aj_]

AJ and Uncle Junior getting along in this thread.

A spade is a spade. My triceps are an embarrassment.

[Papper]

'Stimulate' sounds like something Heath does when he browses facebook during a leg press.

[Uncle Joon]

Haha! It has been my experience with my shitty lagging triceps that got me thinking about this. I do volume OR intensity. My triceps are ALWAYS annihilated: work to failure, cramping, DOMS, but nothing moves the needle.

Ok well glad we can have an insightfull discussion for once that can actually be of some benefit to you and your triceps.
Lets take a quick look at how mucle hypertrophy works within the scope of Myofibrillar vs Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. I am not gonna get into the science behind it but just google it, I will give u snap shot of the end results of the discussion.

How much Myofibrillar Hypertrophy you get is directely correlated with how much weight you can press, ever seen someone who benches 405 have a shitty chest (always exceptions in life but use the general rule)....the answer is NO. Myfibrillar Hypertrophy is the most important for nattys and guys on low doses.

How much Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy you get is directly related to how much gear you take, take more gear, get more Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy and more blood and pump is gotten in the muscle. Hency why volume training is much better suited to gear users than nattys.

Everything is ultimately governed by your genetics and specifically genetic response to gear. Very little stimulation is actually needed to break muscle tissue down (Myofibrillar) and there is so much blood you can hold in the muscle (pump/Sarcoplasmic) by volume training unless you seriously up your doses.

Training = breaking down muscle tissue/holding blood in an aread to expand the muscle, nothing more nothing less. Training doesn't make you grow at all.

Training will never supercede the extra protein synthesis your body is allowed to have and utilize when on gear (dose dependant of course)

So you wanna bring up your triceps on 250mg a week?
Only two options exists. Up your doses THEN increase volume.
Keep on same dose by try and increase the weight you can handle.


If I was you (knowing u won't up dose) I would train in 3-6 rep range only on triceps and go super heavy and keep increasing weight as much as you can.

You should be close grip benching 315 like I do if you want good triceps on HRT/Natty doses...OR you can go high volume BUT ONLY works if you serious up your doses

[SF1900]

A spade is a spade. My triceps are an embarrassment.

From what I have seen of you, you are definitely a Silver Fox.

Don't sell yourself short, broskie. 

[The Ugly]

Wise advice.

[Uncle Joon]

Wise advice.

Thanks man appreciate it

[_aj_]

Ok well glad we can have an insightfull discussion for once that can actually be of some benefit to you and your triceps.
Lets take a quick look at how mucle hypertrophy works within the scope of Myofibrillar vs Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. I am not gonna get into the science behind it but just google it, I will give u snap shot of the end results of the discussion.

How much Myofibrillar Hypertrophy you get is directely correlated with how much weight you can press, ever seen someone who benches 405 have a shitty chest (always exceptions in life but use the general rule)....the answer is NO. Myfibrillar Hypertrophy is the most important for nattys and guys on low doses.

How much Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy you get is directly related to how much gear you take, take more gear, get more Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy and more blood and pump is gotten in the muscle. Hency why volume training is much better suited to gear users than nattys.

Everything is ultimately governed by your genetics and specifically genetic response to gear. Very little stimulation is actually needed to break muscle tissue down (Myofibrillar) and there is so much blood you can hold in the muscle (pump/Sarcoplasmic) by volume training unless you seriously up your doses.

Training = breaking down muscle tissue/holding blood in an aread to expand the muscle, nothing more nothing less. Training doesn't make you grow at all.

Training will never supercede the extra protein synthesis your body is allowed to have and utilize when on gear (dose dependant of course)

So you wanna bring up your triceps on 250mg a week?
Only two options exists. Up your doses THEN increase volume.
Keep on same dose by try and increase the weight you can handle.


If I was you (knowing u won't up dose) I would train in 3-6 rep range only on triceps and go super heavy and keep increasing weight as much as you can.

You should be close grip benching 315 like I do if you want good triceps on HRT/Natty doses...OR you can go high volume BUT ONLY works if you serious up your doses

Video proof.

[Uncle Joon]

Video proof.

Once I am out of surgery and back into the whole training regime I will post whatever you want.

I think you need to focus on a solid strenght training protocal.
I have a feeling you do to much of the same shit over and over again without actually upping the weight on the bar.

Are you willing to try a training routine if I give it to you for 8 weeks and take it serious?
Not gonna bother unless u take it serious or take the piss, genuinely trying to help you out

[_aj_]

Once I am out of surgery and back into the whole training regime I will post whatever you want.

I think you need to focus on a solid strenght training protocal.
I have a feeling you do to much of the same shit over and over again without actually upping the weight on the bar.

Are you willing to try a training routine if I give it to you for 8 weeks and take it serious?
Not gonna bother unless u take it serious or take the piss, genuinely trying to help you out

Well, you would be wrong. But that doesn't mean that I don't have to work around about 25 different injuries over the course of a week. While close-grip benching SEEMS ok, regular bench press is not.