Which supplements actually work?

[Mr Anabolic]

The original Cybergenics.   But even that didn't  work in the state of NY.    Despite all the muscle mags ads and flooding propaganda approach, they were actually required to put on their package "This product will not work for the residents of New York". 

The original MetRx worked too.  But only if you got the original formula.  Which was so powerful it couldn't be mixed together and had to be sold in two separate containers.

lol - actually the blending and agglomeration process had not been perfect yet.  I remember Bill Phillips saying that one of the MetRx ingredients was $1500 a kilo, making people think it was some special/secret muscle building ingredient... in reality it was the aspartame - LOL!

[Rambone]

I have not heard this 

here's the link to the dht study

RESULTS: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

 

http://muscleevo.net/creatine-side-effects/

Second, the normal range for DHT in adult men ranges from 0.8 to 3.4 nmol per liter. In the rugby players, it ranged between 1 and 1.5 nmol per liter. So even though DHT levels rose by over 50%, they were still well within the normal range.

In other words, it’s possible that the rise in DHT actually had nothing to do with creatine at all, and was part of the natural fluctuation in DHT levels that would have happened anyway.

Third, the rugby players used creatine for just three weeks. Where would DHT levels sit after three months? Or three years?

[Royalty]

In the male body, Vitamins act like steroids (specifically tren)

Minerals behave like growth hormone (injected GH)

That's why anyone that refers to Growth Hormone as "Vitamin G" is a deceived. Most people know that growth hormone is basically a mineral (specifically coral calcium).

[mr.turbo]

http://muscleevo.net/creatine-side-effects/

Second, the normal range for DHT in adult men ranges from 0.8 to 3.4 nmol per liter. In the rugby players, it ranged between 1 and 1.5 nmol per liter. So even though DHT levels rose by over 50%, they were still well within the normal range.

In other words, it’s possible that the rise in DHT actually had nothing to do with creatine at all, and was part of the natural fluctuation in DHT levels that would have happened anyway.

Third, the rugby players used creatine for just three weeks. Where would DHT levels sit after three months? Or three years?

ya those are all interesting questions. The authors in fact recommend further investigation of the safety and mechanisms.

I was surprised to see this dht effect which is pretty hard hitting stuff and will make your hair fall out (as noted in your link) and blow up your prostate. We really only hear about the ATP stuff. My personal feeling is guys take WAY too much. If creatine is bumping dht 50% that may explain a lot of things.

[SF1900]

Legal supplements (muscletech products, cytosport, mhp, etc) do not work and anyone who states they work are morons.

The only way to test if something works is to run strict experimental studies (randomized controlled clinical trials). These studies allow you to hold other variables constant, which allows you to isolate the one variable you want to study (the supplement). Unless this is done, no one can accurately state that supplement X works. This is why supplement companies always have advertisements with pretended doctors wearing white coats. They want to try and convince you that their supplement has been studied. If a supplement has not been studied under strict scientific conditions and is not published in peer-review, 99.9% it doesn't work.

The ONLY legal supplement that has been studied in RCT trials and published is Creatine. Creatine has been proven effective. However, it obviously doesn't mean youre going to look like Ronnie Coleman. 

[Never1AShow]

Legal supplements (muscletech products, cytosport, mhp, etc) do not work and anyone who states they work are morons.

The only way to test if something works is to run strict experimental studies (randomized controlled clinical trials). These studies allow you to hold other variables constant, which allows you to isolate the one variable you want to study (the supplement). Unless this is done, no one can accurately state that supplement X works. This is why supplement companies always have advertisements with pretended doctors wearing white coats. They want to try and convince you that their supplement has been studied. If a supplement has not been studied under strict scientific conditions and is not published in peer-review, 99.9% it doesn't work.

The ONLY legal supplement that has been studied in RCT trials and published is Creatine. Creatine has been proven effective. However, it obviously doesn't mean youre going to look like Ronnie Coleman. 

All of the snake oils salesman out to be put in jail for fraud.  Flat out lies being peddled.

Concerning DHEA what dosages?

[Royalty]

I have not heard this 

here's the link to the dht study

RESULTS: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

 

I was kidding of course

[visualizeperfection]

I just cracked one off.

[ritch]

ZMA is a good one. $10 per month also.

[The Ugly]

Original Hot Stuff did, big time. But only briefly in the early '90s. Then they removed the methyltestosterone; useless after that. Got strong and shredded on it for a couple months, but it made a mess of my skin.

Met-RX also, to a lesser extent. But, again, only the original formula. And creatine works, of course, just hurts the kidneys after a while. Made me hold water, too.

Everything else was/is shit.

[Henda]

ZMA is a good one. $10 per month also.

Been meaning to try this one, even more so with your reccomendation.
Despite this site being for clowning around mostly I always listen to your serious posts re bodybuilding mate

[ritch]

Been meaning to try this one, even more so with your reccomendation.
Despite this site being for clowning around mostly I always listen to your serious posts re bodybuilding mate

Thanks man.

Goes without saying it's not as described in ads, lol, but is good to help sleep better. Stuff was like $50 when biotest first came out with it.

[Powerlift66]

Epidrol Halodrol, Superdrol, etc...

[_aj_]

Epidrol Halodrol, Superdrol, etc...

Add methyl-tren and you've got the list of the next additions to the banned list, if they aren't already there. As Joon said, if they work, they will be banned.

[illuminati]

Basically if they are legal they don't work.
If illegal they work.
If you they work and are legal they will become illegal soon
End of thread

THIS.
well said.
sums it up.
 

[Coffeed]

[Uncle Joon]

That's fucking hilarious!

[andreisdaman]

ZMA is a good one. $10 per month also.

I used ZMA once and it gave me dreams like I was on LSD...very vivid and colorful.....and the dreams are so real and vivid that you remember every aspect of them.....

[ritch]

I used ZMA once and it gave me dreams like I was on LSD...very vivid and colorful.....and the dreams are so real and vivid that you remember every aspect of them.....

Damn, never worked that well for me! You sure you didn't just take LSD that night?

[_aj_]

Damn, never worked that well for me! You sure you didn't just take LSD that night?

I also get the vivid dreams effect with ZMA. Not an ounce of muscle, tho 

[m8]

ZMA never gave me the crazy dreams, maybe it was just a bad brand.

[ritch]

I also get the vivid dreams effect with ZMA. Not an ounce of muscle, tho 

It's the B6 that does that. It's not touted to pack on muscle! Magnesium plays an important role in proper muscle contractions, avoiding cramps and is one element we are probably deficient in. So supplementation can be helpful but not life changing, lol!

For the price, hard not to incorporate it. It's like Vit C. Not necessary, reducing cortisol and chances of getting sick are all pieces of the puzzle to looking the way we strive.

[Purge_WTF]

Any supplement that work ends up being classified as a steroid and taken off the shelves.



...PIP Andro

 1,4-andro was my favorite.

 Boldione gave me swift gains.

[andreisdaman]

Legal supplements (muscletech products, cytosport, mhp, etc) do not work and anyone who states they work are morons.

The only way to test if something works is to run strict experimental studies (randomized controlled clinical trials). These studies allow you to hold other variables constant, which allows you to isolate the one variable you want to study (the supplement). Unless this is done, no one can accurately state that supplement X works. This is why supplement companies always have advertisements with pretended doctors wearing white coats. They want to try and convince you that their supplement has been studied. If a supplement has not been studied under strict scientific conditions and is not published in peer-review, 99.9% it doesn't work.

The ONLY legal supplement that has been studied in RCT trials and published is Creatine. Creatine has been proven effective. However, it obviously doesn't mean youre going to look like Ronnie Coleman. 

Good [point about creatine being tested scientifically and being effective but in reality, it only works well ONCE from what people have said ...I had the same experience...I used Cell-Tech when it originally came out and it made me really hard and big....but after I got off and then got back on again......NOTHING...... ..I waited a few years and tried AGAIN AND THIS TIME IT DID WORK AGAIN.....I think.....with supps, no one really knows if they work because everyone is different

I think the biggest benefits of supplements is that they inspire you to work out....

[DHEA-100]

If the olacebo effect could be bottled it would make billions+.