Did you see what i said? "are 170-180 5'10" that i see that are using grams of year and do not compete in the 170-180???" YES when they're competing at the 170-180 they will look freaky...Just like the bantams that use tons of iu GH etc...This is constant years of building at this weight...Constant years of solidifying the fvck out of themselves at this weight...I am not talking the jim cordova's of the world...I am talking about the novice 170-180 on grams of gear...No training 1 working set past failure is not overtraining...Or even close to that...What the shmoes do going from machine to machine to exercise to exercise tons of sets 2-3 hr workouts and wanting to do that 2-3 times a week because they "love training and can't rest" for the same muscles are overtraining
agreed with this machine horseshit, the best exercises per upper body part imo are....
bis=barbell curl
chest=barbell bench
tris=weighted dips or barbell close-grip bench press
delts=overhead press on smith machine or with barbell
back=barbell row (and no, i don't do these

)
ok, so a conditioned buck 70 @ 5'10" that's bout my current size right now 'cept i only use 50 mg test prop eod and 50 mg drol with 20 mg dbol ed not grams and grams of gear

and it is kinda cool how you can weigh roughly the same weight and even near the same bf levels but look much better depending upon what your running and how your training