Author Topic: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina  (Read 6569 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2015, 03:49:56 PM »
It's called fiscal responsibility.


It's called eugenics.  Straight from Planned Parenthood's founder:

Eugenics

An advertisement for a book entitled "Woman and the New Race". At the top is a photo of a woman, seated affectionately with her two sons.

Sanger's 1920 book endorsed negative eugenics.

Originally Sanger based the advocacy of birth control on feminist ideals. After World War I, Sanger increasingly appealed to the societal need to limit births by those least able to afford children. The affluent and educated already limited their child-bearing while the poor and ignorant lacked access to contraception and information about birth-control.[105] Here she found an area of overlap with eugenicists.[105] She believed that they both sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit." They differed in that "eugenists imply or insist that a woman's first duty is to the state; we contend that her duty to herself is her duty to the state."[106] Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, which aims to improve human hereditary traits through social intervention by reducing the reproduction of those who were considered unfit.[107]

In "The Morality of Birth Control," a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the "educated and informed" class that regulated the size of their families, the "intelligent and responsible" who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the "irresponsible and reckless people" whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers." Sanger concludes "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."[108]

Sanger's eugenic policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the "profoundly retarded".[109][110] In her book The Pivot of Civilization, she advocated coercion to prevent the "undeniably feeble-minded" from procreating.[111]

Although Sanger supported negative eugenics, she asserted that eugenics alone was not sufficient, and that birth control was essential to achieve her goals.[112][113][114]

In contrast with eugenicist William Robinson, who advocated euthanasia for the unfit,[note 8] Sanger wrote, "we [do not] believe that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding."[115] Similarly, Sanger denounced the aggressive and lethal Nazi eugenics program.[110] In addition, Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain in the hands of able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment.[112][116]

Sanger also supported restrictive immigration policies. In "A Plan for Peace", a 1932 essay, she proposed a congressional department to address population problems. She also recommended that immigration exclude those "whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race," and that sterilization and segregation be applied to those with incurable, hereditary disabilities.[109][110][117]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics

TuHolmes

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2015, 04:13:03 PM »
It's called eugenics.  Straight from Planned Parenthood's founder:

Eugenics

An advertisement for a book entitled "Woman and the New Race". At the top is a photo of a woman, seated affectionately with her two sons.

Sanger's 1920 book endorsed negative eugenics.

Originally Sanger based the advocacy of birth control on feminist ideals. After World War I, Sanger increasingly appealed to the societal need to limit births by those least able to afford children. The affluent and educated already limited their child-bearing while the poor and ignorant lacked access to contraception and information about birth-control.[105] Here she found an area of overlap with eugenicists.[105] She believed that they both sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit." They differed in that "eugenists imply or insist that a woman's first duty is to the state; we contend that her duty to herself is her duty to the state."[106] Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, which aims to improve human hereditary traits through social intervention by reducing the reproduction of those who were considered unfit.[107]

In "The Morality of Birth Control," a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the "educated and informed" class that regulated the size of their families, the "intelligent and responsible" who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the "irresponsible and reckless people" whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers." Sanger concludes "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."[108]

Sanger's eugenic policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the "profoundly retarded".[109][110] In her book The Pivot of Civilization, she advocated coercion to prevent the "undeniably feeble-minded" from procreating.[111]

Although Sanger supported negative eugenics, she asserted that eugenics alone was not sufficient, and that birth control was essential to achieve her goals.[112][113][114]

In contrast with eugenicist William Robinson, who advocated euthanasia for the unfit,[note 8] Sanger wrote, "we [do not] believe that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding."[115] Similarly, Sanger denounced the aggressive and lethal Nazi eugenics program.[110] In addition, Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain in the hands of able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment.[112][116]

Sanger also supported restrictive immigration policies. In "A Plan for Peace", a 1932 essay, she proposed a congressional department to address population problems. She also recommended that immigration exclude those "whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race," and that sterilization and segregation be applied to those with incurable, hereditary disabilities.[109][110][117]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics


I don't care what SHE calls it or what YOU call it.

I call it fiscal responsibility.

Don't like it, tough.

You are admitting you are ok with paying for a child to be in a state funded system for 18 years.

I'm not.



Dos Equis

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2015, 04:53:39 PM »
I don't care what SHE calls it or what YOU call it.

I call it fiscal responsibility.

Don't like it, tough.

You are admitting you are ok with paying for a child to be in a state funded system for 18 years.

I'm not.




I don't care how you want to sugarcoat it.  It's eugenics.  You're in favor of killing a kid who might wind up on welfare.  I'm not. 

The Ugly

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2015, 05:43:37 PM »
I don't care how you want to sugarcoat it.  It's eugenics.  You're in favor of killing a kid who might wind up on welfare.  I'm not. 

Oh, I am. That's just good sense.

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2015, 05:57:42 PM »
I have seen no evidence of the GOP trying to "eliminate" Planned Parenthood.


Dos Equis

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2015, 06:03:20 PM »
Oh, I am. That's just good sense.

Well at least you're honest about it.   :-\

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2015, 06:14:42 PM »
Well at least you're honest about it.   :-\

Yeah, just seems like an instance where honesty might benefit the greater good.


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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2015, 06:17:56 PM »
Yeah, just seems like an instance where honesty might benefit the greater good.



I don't think the greater good includes killing people we don't believe will be the best members of society.  Drawing lines becomes pretty tricky too.  Do you stop with kids on welfare?  How about kids with disabilities?  What about the elderly? 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2015, 06:28:24 PM »
I don't think the greater good includes killing people we don't believe will be the best members of society.  Drawing lines becomes pretty tricky too.  Do you stop with kids on welfare?  How about kids with disabilities?  What about the elderly?  

Forget people, what about unwanted goop that EVENTUALLY becomes a burden?

Now, it's Babymama choice, so no line drawing. Secondly, disability/elderly? Fuck yeah, depending. Aborting a Down's happens all the time, totally fine with it. I would. And whatever else they can eventually diagnose in utero, I'm all ears. Never viewed all life as sacred, sorry, not by a long shot.

And old folks choosing to hasten death medically (thereby avoiding unnecessary suffering), only the most heartless, immoral monster would object.

Are you 100% opposed or a conditional aborter?

Dos Equis

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2015, 06:34:25 PM »
Firstly, it's Babymama choice, so no line drawing. Second of all, disability/elderly? Fuck yeah, depending. Aborting a Down's happens all the time, totally fine with it. I would. Whatever else they can eventually diagnose in utero, I'm listening.

And old folks choosing to hasten death medically (thereby avoiding unnecessary suffering), only the most heartless, immoral monster would object.

Are you a conception = life fundie?

Sure there is a line drawing problem, unless you're following that Hitler/Sanger-like line of thinking of wanting to create some kind of master race.  So you would kill a kid who might be on welfare and would have a disability.  What about a kid who is the wrong gender? What about a kid with low IQ?    

Regarding the elderly, I'm not talking about assisted suicide.  I'm talking about killing old people who are no longer productive members of society.  

I believe life begins at conception.  Not sure exactly what you mean by "fundie."  I guess that would be like me asking if you are a Hitler disciple?   :)

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2015, 06:47:37 PM »
Sure there is a line drawing problem, unless you're following that Hitler/Sanger-like line of thinking of wanting to create some kind of master race.  So you would kill a kid who might be on welfare and would have a disability.  What a kid who is the wrong gender? What about a kid with low IQ?  

Regarding the elderly, I'm not talking about assisted suicide.  I'm talking about killing old people who are no longer productive members of society.  

I believe life begins at conception.  Not sure exactly what you mean by "fundie."  I guess that would be like me asking if you are a Hitler disciple?   :)

Bold: This is all your Sanger hang-up, which I never specifically endorsed. Doesn't apply, as Mom chooses, not Big Bro.

Elderly should be a personal choice, never suggested otherwise. Again, not endorsing government interference. I edited "fundie" because it was presumptuous. If you're a conception guy, though, guess it's no longer a presumption.

"Soul," right?


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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2015, 06:51:28 PM »
I don't care how you want to sugarcoat it.  It's eugenics.  You're in favor of killing a kid who might wind up on welfare.  I'm not. 

No, it's not, because I'm not FORCING anyone to do anything.


Bold: This is all your Sanger hang-up, which I never specifically endorsed. Doesn't apply, as Mom chooses, not Big Bro.

Elderly should be a personal choice; never suggested otherwise. Again, not endorsing government interference. I edited "fundie" because it was presumptuous. If you're a conception guy, though, guess it's no longer a presumption.

"Soul," right?



Exactly.

No one is making anyone get it done... We are giving them an option that just so happens to also be fiscally responsible at the same time.

Conservatives want to save the life of a child, but don't want to provide for the child's life.

They hate Welfare, but want to take away a persons option for not being on it in the first place.

Completely contrary.

Dos Equis

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2015, 06:54:23 PM »
Bold: This is all your Sanger hang-up, which I never specifically endorsed. Doesn't apply, as Mom chooses, not Big Bro.

Elderly should be a personal choice, never suggested otherwise. Again, not endorsing government interference. I edited "fundie" because it was presumptuous. If you're a conception guy, though, guess it's no longer a presumption.

"Soul," right?



I don't think it matters whether mom or government chooses.  It's still eugenics, which I'm not in favor of at all. 

We had a failure to communicate regarding the elderly.  I was specifically talking about killing people who are not productive members of society, not people committing suicide. 

Yes, I'm a conception guy. 

Soul? 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2015, 07:12:05 PM »
No, it's not, because I'm not FORCING anyone to do anything.


Exactly.

No one is making anyone get it done... We are giving them an option that just so happens to also be fiscally responsible at the same time.

Conservatives want to save the life of a child, but don't want to provide for the child's life.

They hate Welfare, but want to take away a persons option for not being on it in the first place.

Completely contrary.


As a lifelong (choice) conservative, I always brushed this off. But it's absolutely true; we (meaning they) universally despise welfare but pretend that "special, innocent baby" (a future recipient) is somehow sacred. Hypocritical crock.

Fight for you in the womb, but fuck you once you emerge. Once again, Bible sillying up otherwise rational brains. Champion ourselves as the 'Believe what you see' party, until it comes to totally unseeable God. Then we're all see what you believe Liberals.

We meaning they, fuck them.

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2015, 07:16:36 PM »
I don't think it matters whether mom or government chooses.  It's still eugenics, which I'm not in favor of at all.  

We had a failure to communicate regarding the elderly.  I was specifically talking about killing people who are not productive members of society, not people committing suicide.  

Yes, I'm a conception guy.  

Soul?  

Yes, miscommunication. No gov death panels for me, just the right to choose a medical exit.

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2015, 07:18:12 PM »
I don't think it matters whether mom or government chooses.  It's still eugenics, which I'm not in favor of at all.  

We had a failure to communicate regarding the elderly.  I was specifically talking about killing people who are not productive members of society, not people committing suicide.  

Yes, I'm a conception guy.  

Soul?  


One and the same, no? Why else would one settle on conception?

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #92 on: September 22, 2015, 10:01:38 AM »
Yes, miscommunication. No gov death panels for me, just the right to choose a medical exit.

People already have the option to choose suicide. 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #93 on: September 22, 2015, 10:02:39 AM »
One and the same, no? Why else would one settle on conception?

No.  I've never made that comparison.  Conception is the logical starting point for me.  Not some arbitrary line while the child is in the womb and not after the baby is born.  

When do you believe life begins?  I think I started a thread about this a long time ago. 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #94 on: September 22, 2015, 10:52:10 AM »
If Carly wants to end PP, then she should become CEO of it. 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #95 on: September 22, 2015, 11:10:42 AM »
People already have the option to choose suicide.  

the right to choose a medical exit.


Not the same and you know it.

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #96 on: September 22, 2015, 11:29:57 AM »
If Carly wants to end PP, then she should become CEO of it. 

LOL

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2015, 11:38:21 AM »
No.  I've never made that comparison.  Conception is the logical starting point for me.  Not some arbitrary line while the child is in the womb and not after the baby is born.  

When do you believe life begins?

"Life" is ambiguous, as a single cell is life. But a distinct (separate) human being? Difficult question, much to consider. Certainly well after conception and certainly before third trimester.

And certainly uncertain where in between.


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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2015, 11:56:49 AM »

Not the same and you know it.

How so?  Are you talking about physician assisted suicide? 

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Re: Republicans have a bunch of losers and shitty candidates except Carly Fiorina
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2015, 12:01:45 PM »
"Life" is ambiguous, as a single cell is life. But a distinct (separate) human being? Difficult question, much to consider. Certainly well after conception and certainly before third trimester.

And certainly uncertain where in between.



I don't believe a single cell is "human" life.  

It is a difficult question.  Have you ever looked at the development of a baby in the womb?