Author Topic: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?  (Read 34102 times)

Man of Steel

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Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« on: September 17, 2015, 06:26:57 AM »
http://www.christianpost.com/news/atheists-did-something-come-from-nothing-145015/

It seems atheists would much rather believe that something came from nothing, than to believe that Someone has always existed. Of course both beliefs are a matter of faith.

So did the universe come from nothing, or from God? Is there a rational mind behind the mathematical precision of the universe, as well as human DNA, or did it all just happen by chance?

In his book, "The Grand Design," Professor Stephen Hawking writes, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

But Hawking's premise is illogical. Without the cosmos, there would be no law of gravity. And if the law of gravity truly helped create the universe as Hawking suggests, then the universe was not created from nothing, but from something. In that case, how did the law of gravity originate, and how could it have been in existence prior to the creation of the universe? Impossible and irrational.

You mean to tell me that the man who is perhaps the world's most famous living scientist actually believes the mystical doctrine that something came from nothing? Yes indeed. Hawking's confession of faith is unequivocal. And a multitude of others in our world today have also chosen to place their faith in such imaginative science fiction. True science, on the other hand, recognizes that something cannot be created from nothing.

By the way, Hawking recently revealed his latest theory. He now believes that passing through a "black hole" could lead you to another universe. And his latest theory comes less than two years since Hawking made headlines with this bold statement: "There are no black holes."

But the man who believes the law of gravity helped create the universe has been digging a little deeper on the question of black holes. And he wants you to be prepared in case you ever find yourself inside one. Seriously.

Hawking now says that "if you feel you are in a black hole, don't give up. There's a way out." A way out? And Hawking knows this for a fact? Actually, it's just more science fiction from an intelligent physicist with a creative imagination.

Obviously, man is susceptible to embracing the myth that nothing created something. The Christian mind, on the other hand, has been delivered from such irrationality. Christians believe in a personal God who loved us enough to send His only Son to save us from our sin. Christians have been given "the mind of Christ." (1 Cor. 2:16) That is, we now see a number of things the way Christ sees them.

But how can that be?

Well, wisdom from God gets poured into a believer when he meets Christ through faith. Without this wisdom, how in the world could we possibly believe in a personal God? After all, we are not born into this world possessing "the mind of Christ." We only possess human reason. And those who reject God admittedly don't know where human reason originated.

Karl Popper delivered the first Darwin Lecture at Darwin College, in Cambridge, on Nov. 8, 1977. It was entitled, "Natural Selection and the Emergence of Mind." Popper stated, "I conjecture that life, and later also mind, have evolved or emerged in a universe that was, up to a certain time, lifeless and mindless. Life, or living matter, somehow emerged from nonliving matter; and it does not seem completely impossible that we shall one day know how this happened. Things look far more difficult with the emergence of mind. While we think we know some of the preconditions of life, and some of the substructures of primitive organisms, we do not have the slightest idea on which evolutionary level mind emerges."

That's simple. The rational mind of man was created by an intelligent and rational Creator. He is all-powerful and all-knowing, and so it was easy for God to create both the body as well as the mind of man.

Consider for a moment the mathematical precision of human DNA. Francis Collins is the director of the Human Genome Project. Collins stated, "I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan."

Perry Marshall noted, "Dr. Jean-Claude Perez started counting letters in DNA. He discovered that these ratios are highly mathematical and based on 'Phi,' the Golden Ratio 1.618. This is a very special number, sort of like Pi." Perez' discovery was published in the scientific journal Interdisciplinary Sciences / Computational Life Sciences in September 2010.

Since God's mind is obviously a million times more advanced than the human mind, it was a piece of cake for the Creator to place this mathematical perfection into the DNA of Adam and Eve. "Wait a minute! Who believes in that Adam and Eve stuff?" Well, Jesus for one. Christ said, "Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female.'" (Matthew 19:4)

And we have all descended from that first man and woman. It requires faith to believe that God is an eternal Being who created man at a special time and place. On the other end of the spectrum, it requires far greater faith (and a blind faith at that) to believe that something came from nothing.

Scriptures reveals the origin of the cosmos: "By Christ all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:15-17) God is not a thing, but a Person. Actually, three Persons in One God. And when you meet Christ through faith, you enter an eternal relationship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Francis Collins said, "I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's assertion that 'I know there is no God' emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, 'Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative.'"

So did the universe create itself out of nothing? And did the human mind come into existence without the work of a rational designer? Or has God always existed? You make the call.

But just remember. The Lord is going to reign in heaven forever, whether you want to be part of that eternal celebration or not.


scottt

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 06:36:12 AM »
  Video of Scientist who became Christian explaining Genesis.

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 06:44:39 AM »
 Video of Scientist who became Christian explaining Genesis.

I've seen Hugh Ross speak live at my church.  I've watched many of his lectures and debates and own a couple of his books.

Got to meet him and his wife and also saw his contemporary Fuz Rana speak live.

Really interesting work they're doing for the Lord.  I enjoy their stuff very much!

scottt

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 08:13:11 AM »
I will check out more of his videos. This was the first time I have watched him, he points out details that are easily missed by most.

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 10:23:40 AM »
I will check out more of his videos. This was the first time I have watched him, he points out details that are easily missed by most.

An interesting fact about Dr. Ross is that he suffers from Asperger's Syndrome.  Given the degree of his syndrome he doesn't handle social situations very well and can't interpret peoples dispositions, sarcasm or body language easily.  

For instance, while in debates if an opponent decides to insult or attack him he doesn't fully recognize the attack and it leaves him virtually unphased in the debate whereas others can be thrown off their game.

Watch his debate against Victor Stenger and you'll see evidence of this.....even his debate against the Kent Hovind he rarely (if ever) gets rattled.

I think God has annointed this man because of his condition to use his condition to bring glory to him and to win folks for the kingdom.

BigRo

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 12:34:30 PM »
All comes from the Divine and is the Divine.

Set It Up

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 10:10:56 PM »
You cant prove your god theories and we atheists cant prove ours. Its a never ending argument. The end

Davidtheman100

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2015, 10:38:33 PM »
The theory is that time did not exist back then. Humans made up time. So therefor something can just "happen" and nothing needs to happen before it....It's more backed up scientifically than jesus living, healing people and then coming back from the dead

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2015, 10:41:33 PM »
The theory is that time did not exist back then. Humans made up time. So therefor something can just "happen" and nothing needs to happen before it....It's more backed up scientifically than jesus living, healing people and then coming back from the dead

I wonder if Jeebus smoked..or went bowling? Maybe he was bass guitar in a band?

Davidtheman100

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2015, 11:47:00 PM »
I wonder if Jeebus smoked..or went bowling? Maybe he was bass guitar in a band?

This one time jesus went to the zoo with his mom and he was like "Damn nikka can i get a pet gorilla?" And his mom was like "Nah nikka" then jesus looked at his mother and saw that her eyes were red and then he looked down and he was a horse. It's in the bible.

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2015, 02:51:37 AM »
This one time jesus went to the zoo with his mom and he was like "Damn nikka can i get a pet gorilla?" And his mom was like "Nah nikka" then jesus looked at his mother and saw that her eyes were red and then he looked down and he was a horse. It's in the bible.

Ooooooooo dat der bible amazes  :o

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2015, 06:12:12 AM »
The theory is that time did not exist back then. Humans made up time. So therefor something can just "happen" and nothing needs to happen before it....It's more backed up scientifically than jesus living, healing people and then coming back from the dead

So, you're suggesting that there's more scientific evidence for a scientific topic such as time versus a non scientific topic such as the life of Jesus?  

In terms of time, when you state "The theory is that time did not exist back then. Humans made up time. So therefor something can just "happen" and nothing needs to happen before it....It's more backed up scientifically than jesus living, healing people and then coming back from the dead" you're referring to a timeless state prior to the "BC" era time standard, correct?

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 06:53:13 AM »
You cant prove your god theories and we atheists cant prove ours. Its a never ending argument. The end

We have historical proof of Jesus' life and ministry, archeological proof of biblical people and places, manuscript proof of biblical reliability via the field of textual criticism, multiple independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life/death/resurrection, proof via logic (God as source of logic, TAG argument, Kalam Cosmological argument), extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry/death/resurrection, the ministry and death of Jesus' apostles after his ascension, the fulfillment of biblical prophecy spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment, the intelligent design of the universe, the utter improbability of the intricate structure of the universe without a designer and the testimonial evidence of millions and millions of Christ's followers today.  This isn't an exhaustive list either.

The problem with evidence is that our presuppositions and subjectivity often determine our judgment of evidence even prior to reviewing said evidence (that is if it's ever reviewed).  Further, people that want to understand and know God have a personal desire to actively pursue God....this is key!!  Atheists don't pursue God according to his terms as outlined in scripture and generally have no desire to understand and know God at all.  Atheists object to God based upon a lack of scientific evidence and testing (a logical fallacy referred to as a "category mistake") or they put forth demands that certain criteria must be met within the evidence that is simply unreasonable.   That or they simply reject anything and everything "God" and refuse to explore and follow the evidence.   Those that truly desire to know the reality of God pursue him.  



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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2015, 06:57:12 AM »
Unreasonable?????? Theres no proof. Youre absolutely cultish in your beliefs. Scary as fuck.

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 07:01:25 AM »
Unreasonable?????? Theres no proof. Youre absolutely cultish in your beliefs. Scary as fuck.

That's the thing, you're replying to proof of God right now.  

What you appear to claim is that you outright reject any and all things "God or religion" (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Is there any type of proof you would accept that would cause you to follow Christ?    

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 07:22:01 AM »
That's the thing, you're replying to proof of God right now.  

What you appear to claim is that you outright reject any and all things "God or religion" (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Is there any type of proof you would accept that would cause you to follow Christ?    

Im gonna close this off now. You have stepped over the creepy cultish line. Theres something not right in your head. Not being mean..but dude..too much koolaid for you

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 07:43:41 AM »
Im gonna close this off now. You have stepped over the creepy cultish line. Theres something not right in your head. Not being mean..but dude..too much koolaid for you

It's perfectly fine if you'd rather not answer.   I'm not going to attack or criticize you.  

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 10:04:55 AM »
We have historical proof of Jesus' life and ministry, archeological proof of biblical people and places, manuscript proof of biblical reliability via the field of textual criticism, multiple independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life/death/resurrection, proof via logic (God as source of logic, TAG argument, Kalam Cosmological argument), extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry/death/resurrection, the ministry and death of Jesus' apostles after his ascension, the fulfillment of biblical prophecy spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment, the intelligent design of the universe, the utter improbability of the intricate structure of the universe without a designer and the testimonial evidence of millions and millions of Christ's followers today.  This isn't an exhaustive list either.

The problem with evidence is that our presuppositions and subjectivity often determine our judgment of evidence even prior to reviewing said evidence (that is if it's ever reviewed).  Further, people that want to understand and know God have a personal desire to actively pursue God....this is key!!  Atheists don't pursue God according to his terms as outlined in scripture and generally have no desire to understand and know God at all.  Atheists object to God based upon a lack of scientific evidence and testing (a logical fallacy referred to as a "category mistake") or they put forth demands that certain criteria must be met within the evidence that is simply unreasonable.   That or they simply reject anything and everything "God" and refuse to explore and follow the evidence.   Those that truly desire to know the reality of God pursue him.  




Your mind is an encyclopaedia of knowledge on Christian matters!

I actively pursue God, however not on the lines outlined in scripture,  I do however find some passages of (Christian) scripture deeply moving and revealing.

If we want to see microbes we use the physical scientific instrumentation of the microscope we don't say show me the evidence that microbes exist without using a microscope. Similarly to see the Transcendent we need to use certain tools, we need to tread a certain path and focus our awareness a certain way, its equally silly when the spiritual is dismissed outright without any approach whatsoever.

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 10:24:12 AM »
Your mind is an encyclopaedia of knowledge on Christian matters!

I actively pursue God, however not on the lines outlined in scripture,  I do however find some passages of (Christian) scripture deeply moving and revealing.

If we want to see microbes we use the physical scientific instrumentation of the microscope we don't say show me the evidence that microbes exist without using a microscope. Similarly to see the Transcendent we need to use certain tools, we need to tread a certain path and focus our awareness a certain way, its equally silly when the spiritual is dismissed outright without any approach whatsoever.

I'm a reader and researcher; plus my posts have allowed me to compile a lot of material.   I listen to debate, discussion and ministry online constantly.  Eventually some of it sticks LOL.  :)

This is what I've tried to express to folks over and over and over.  

As avxo has said, "Oh, so I have to believe first in order to know the proof of God......how convenient."  [something to that effect]

God reveals himself to those that desire to know and pursue him in humility and surrender as outlined in scripture.

This whole notion of "no proof", "no evidence", yada yada is silly.  So many simply approach the subject of God with a "hard and fast" attitude of "no God for me....and you're delusional for believing it".   Fantastic.

People that desire to know God pursue God even if that pursuit is contrary to everything they grew up learning, believing or experiencing.  Folks that want God may have to abandon their presuppositions, worldviews and pride first.  That's why it's referred to as "conversion".   Most folks can't do that and fall into the trap of having "all this God nonsense figured out" and simply being "too smart for God".

Of course the entirety of this post won't be understood at all by the vast majority of GB.  


Davidtheman100

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2015, 12:05:19 PM »
I'm a reader and researcher; plus my posts have allowed me to compile a lot of material.   I listen to debate, discussion and ministry online constantly.  Eventually some of it sticks LOL.  :)

This is what I've tried to express to folks over and over and over.  

As avxo has said, "Oh, so I have to believe first in order to know the proof of God......how convenient."  [something to that effect]

God reveals himself to those that desire to know and pursue him in humility and surrender as outlined in scripture.

This whole notion of "no proof", "no evidence", yada yada is silly.  So many simply approach the subject of God with a "hard and fast" attitude of "no God for me....and you're delusional for believing it".   Fantastic.

People that desire to know God pursue God even if that pursuit is contrary to everything they grew up learning, believing or experiencing.  Folks that want God may have to abandon their presuppositions, worldviews and pride first.  That's why it's referred to as "conversion".   Most folks can't do that and fall into the trap of having "all this God nonsense figured out" and simply being "too smart for God".

Of course the entirety of this post won't be understood at all by the vast majority of GB.  



Do you even lift, though?

Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2015, 12:16:44 PM »
Do you even lift, though?

I've lifted a weight or two in my day.

Agnostic007

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2015, 10:58:43 AM »
We have historical proof of Jesus' life and ministry, archeological proof of biblical people and places, manuscript proof of biblical reliability via the field of textual criticism, multiple independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life/death/resurrection, proof via logic (God as source of logic, TAG argument, Kalam Cosmological argument), extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry/death/resurrection, the ministry and death of Jesus' apostles after his ascension, the fulfillment of biblical prophecy spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment, the intelligent design of the universe, the utter improbability of the intricate structure of the universe without a designer and the testimonial evidence of millions and millions of Christ's followers today.  This isn't an exhaustive list either.

The problem with evidence is that our presuppositions and subjectivity often determine our judgment of evidence even prior to reviewing said evidence (that is if it's ever reviewed).  Further, people that want to understand and know God have a personal desire to actively pursue God....this is key!!  Atheists don't pursue God according to his terms as outlined in scripture and generally have no desire to understand and know God at all.  Atheists object to God based upon a lack of scientific evidence and testing (a logical fallacy referred to as a "category mistake") or they put forth demands that certain criteria must be met within the evidence that is simply unreasonable.   That or they simply reject anything and everything "God" and refuse to explore and follow the evidence.   Those that truly desire to know the reality of God pursue him.  




Typical fundie circular logic.

scottt

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2015, 12:08:10 PM »
How is his statement circular logic?


Man of Steel

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 12:19:35 PM »
Typical fundie circular logic.

Typical atheist hit and run.  ;D




Agnostic007

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Re: Atheists: Did Something Come From Nothing?
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2015, 11:25:11 AM »
Typical atheist hit and run.  ;D





Typical Fundie attack