Are American Luxury Cars Improving Or Is It More Of The Same

[Rambone]

Saw a blacked out 2015 Z06 vette w/ a Blackstone Labs sticker on the rear window this morning. It didn't look like PJ or Aaron, but since i was also driving a 2015 vette, I opted for the thumbs up instead of the bicep flex since my 17" pipe cleaners would likely leave him more than less impressed.

[mr.turbo]

corvettes are nice

the luxury cars from the US , as much a i want to like them it's just kind of blah meh whatever...

the el miraj concept car was cool,

like just make a nice GT coupe for fuck sakes.  maybe they don't know how?

I remember the lincoln mark7 or mark8 it was cool  

[Palumboism]

I believe I read a few yrs back that Lincoln was doing worse at that time than Mercury was doing before they killed it off.

Alan Mullally (Former Ford CEO) wanted to kill both Lincoln and Mercury and Mark Fields asked if he could try and save Lincoln.

In my opinion, too many American brands have been discontinued.  

Oldsmobile
Pontiac
Plymouth
Mercury

[hardgainerj]

Tesla is revolutionary.

still ugly

[hardgainerj]

After seeing the new Buick and Lincoln at the LA auto show, I believe American luxury cars are improving.  What do you think?

    
2017 Buick LaCrosse
COLORED TRI-SHIELD, ASSEMBLEEEEE!


2017 Lincoln MKZ

cars for senior citizens

[mr.turbo]

just make a gt

[Thin Lizzy]

After seeing the new Buick and Lincoln at the LA auto show, I believe American luxury cars are improving.  What do you think?

    
2017 Buick LaCrosse
COLORED TRI-SHIELD, ASSEMBLEEEEE!


2017 Lincoln MKZ

In general, the difference between the high end and the middle is less. In other words, there isn't as much status associated with a high end car, these days, as the middle is perfectly fine.

Is that car really that much better than the middle of the road Camry?

[Palumboism]

cars for senior citizens

Your criticism is valid and probably the most important anyone one could give of Buick and Lincoln.  American car companies have had incompetent management for decades.  Former luxury car brads like Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Chrysler have been severely damaged and that's why I created this thread.  I want to know if people believe they're making the necessary changes.

What do people think of when you say Lincoln?  A 75 year old driving a Lincoln Town Car and that is perfectly valid and a hundred percent Fords own fault.  Notice the low ball tactic of using Matthew  McConaughey in their commercials in an attempt to lure ignorant females into buying tarted up Ford Escapes.  

[Palumboism]

In general, the difference between the high end and the middle is less. In other words, there isn't as much status associated with a high end car, these days, as the middle is perfectly fine.

Is that car really that much better than the middle of the road Camry?

This is a completely unfair comparison.  You're comparing an Impala and Fusion to a Camry.  

[mr.turbo]

Alan Mullally (Former Ford CEO) wanted to kill both Lincoln and Mercury and Mark Fields asked if he could try and save Lincoln.

In my opinion, too many American brands have been discontinued.  

Oldsmobile
Pontiac
Plymouth
Mercury

what's the point of all these brands if the cars are simply re-badged versions of something else?

same wine new bottle. watered down wine at that.

I think the younger generation have caught on to this rouse.

[Palumboism]

what's the point of all these brands if the cars are simply re-badged versions of something else?

same wine new bottle. watered down wine at that.

I think the younger generation have caught on to this rouse.

The point is you can tailor the cars to a particular customers.  For example, Plymouth used to be the third best selling brand in America right behind Chevrolet and Ford.  Plymouth was always the value brand meaning you always got a lot for your money.  So Chrysler could take four thousand dollars of the cost of a 200C and sell a de-premium version as a Plymouth and would probably outsell the 200C three to one.  

Oldsmobile sold the best selling car in America in 1975 and it gave customers more style than the Chevrolet.  I always thought Oldsmobile's were significantly better than Chevrolet's

Pontiac started the muscle car trend with the GTO.  I used to work with a guy who was a life long Pontiac fan having driven a 79 Trans Am and currently driving G8.  He is still FURIOUS at GM for killing Pontiac.  He once said if he met that douche bag Elon Musk he would punch him in the face.  He could tell you at length why Pontiac needed to be saved.  I've never been a fan of Pontiac and just remember a bunch of body cladding on Grand Ams.

Mercury used to be what Lincoln is today, just a slightly more premium Ford.  Had Ford kept Mercury it would have allowed Lincoln to go after the higher end premium market.  I understand why they did what they did.  Lincoln was too damaged by decades of Town Cars to do this.

My point is that all of these brands if managed properly could still be selling well today.  Unfortunately, American car companies have had incompetent management for decades.  

[Parker]

just make a gt

this Big Body Caddy needs to have been made, pronto.

[mr.turbo]

The point is you can tailor the cars to a particular customers.  For example, Plymouth used to be the third best selling brand in America right behind Chevrolet and Ford.  Plymouth was always the value brand meaning you always got a lot for your money.  So Chrysler could take four thousand dollars of the cost of a 200C and sell a de-premium version as a Plymouth and would probably outsell the 200C three to one.  

Oldsmobile sold the best selling car in America in 1975 and it gave customers more style than the Chevrolet which people were willing to pay for.  I always thought Oldsmobile's were significantly better than Chevrolet's

Pontiac started the muscle car trend with the GTO.  I used to work with a guy who was a life long Pontiac fan having driven a 79 Trans Am and currently driving G8.  He is still FURIOUS at GM for killing Pontiac.  He once said if he met that douche bag Elon Musk he would punch him in the face.  He could tell you at length why Pontiac needed to be saved.  I've never been a fan of Pontiac and just remember a bunch of body cladding on Grand Ams.

My point is that all of these brands if managed properly could still be selling well today.

The Pontiac guys are crazy.  The trans am and the gto were somewhat unique cars, they also built this thing called the aztec which was one of the most bizarre creations ever. I think a lot of people were mad at that decision. You can't please everybody.

My recollection is that GM started this concept of multi branding products under a single larger corporate umbrella, which was wildly successful (for reasons you stated) and unique. This established the model of the modern corporation.

As time went on, I feel that it's easy to become complacent when there's a lack of competition. Their products just weren't as good as the imports, which could be produced much more cheaply and ate away at that dominance. We know how the story ends...Post bankruptcy, I think they probably reasoned that a haircut was needed to return to the core values that produced success, which is sensible. I would imagine they started with a much smaller number of brands and products.

[Parker]

The Pontiac guys are crazy.  The trans am and the gto were somewhat unique cars, they also built this thing called the aztec which was one of the most bizarre creations ever. I think a lot of people were mad at that decision. You can't please everybody.

My recollection is that GM started this concept of multi branding products under a single larger corporate umbrella, which was wildly successful (for reasons you stated) and unique. This established the model of the modern corporation.

As time went on, I feel that it's easy to become complacent when there's a lack of competition. Their products just weren't as good and the imports, which could be produced much more cheaply and ate away at that dominance. We know how the story ends...Post bankruptcy, I think they probably reasoned that a haircut was needed to return to the core values that produced success, which is sensible. I would imagine they started with a much small number of brands and products.

the different brands had different engines as well. I remember that there was a lawsuit because somebody or a group of people thought that their Pontiacs still had unique engines to themselves, but again phased that concept out.

[mr.turbo]

this Big Body Caddy needs to have been made, pronto.

very handsome car, great lines

i love these stretched out coupes

[mr.turbo]

the different brands had different engines as well. I remember that there was a lawsuit because somebody or a group of people thought that their Pontiacs still had unique engines to themselves, but again phased that concept out.

exactly, like the cats out of the bag right? people really thought that they were getting a different product hahaha,

with the internet now people research the hell out of everything.

[The True Adonis]

In general, the difference between the high end and the middle is less. In other words, there isn't as much status associated with a high end car, these days, as the middle is perfectly fine.

Is that car really that much better than the middle of the road Camry?

Good.  Now you realize that all three are shit.

[APE907]

Pontiac started the muscle car trend with the GTO.  I used to work with a guy who was a life long Pontiac fan having driven a 79 Trans Am and currently driving G8.  He is still FURIOUS at GM for killing Pontiac.  He once said if he met that douche bag Elon Musk he would punch him in the face.  He could tell you at length why Pontiac needed to be saved.  I've never been a fan of Pontiac and just remember a bunch of body cladding on grand ams.

How GM spared Buick and axed Pontiac is beyond comprehension.

Pontiac certainly had their fair share of abortions and their reliance on body cladding was revolting.  However, Pontiac had far more heritage value and potential to pull out of the nosedive.  Buick on the other hand, has abandoned their blue hair loyalists and no longer offers a true "full sized" car.  I work closely with several high volume GMC/Buick stores and behind closed doors each one is highly disparaging of the Buick lineup and dislikes how GM is trying to position the brand.  Buick will never be the aspirational marque that GM fantasizes it should be.

As far as the Aztek goes, believe it or not it was ahead of its time....look at the CUV craze that now represents the fastest growing segment.  Multiple brands have incorporated these awkward looking half SUV, half car shitboxes into their offerings....including luxury models.  The demographic they aim for is the upwardly mobile female professional/soccer mom.

[Thespritz0]

It would be amazing to go back in time, and be able to knock boots in the back of one of these!!!

[Disgusted]

 

[The True Adonis]

Good stuff.

[Disgusted]

Good stuff.

Thanks just got it.

[sync pulse]

the different brands had different engines as well. I remember that there was a lawsuit because somebody or a group of people thought that their Pontiacs still had unique engines to themselves, but again phased that concept out.

I think it was Buick or Oldsmobile with Chevrolet engines.

[sync pulse]

The two main problems with Tesla are:

• 1) The cost of the thing.
• 2) The range on a single charge.

Number one I am not addressing here.  Number two is more problematical.

Chemical batteries are limited in their energy density...The amount of charge that it can hold is a function of what the electrolyte and the electrodes are made of.

The problem of range can be looked at two ways:

• A) How efficient is the drive train at converting the stored energy into motion.
• B) How much energy can the batteries hold.

Now Tesla may indeed have a very efficient drive train, but the energy density of the batteries are determined by chemistry and the choice of electrodes and electrolytes...you cannot make it "take more".

He once said if he met that douche bag Elon Musk he would punch him in the face. 

The problem with Elon Musk is that when an engineer, technician, or automotive journalist who is not employed by Elon Musk says things that he doesn't want to hear...He goes ballistic...Think Jeremy Clarkson and Top Gear's Technical staff. (I would have bought tickets to see Clarkson and Musk that day.)

Tesla is revolutionary. The Germans and japanese have nothing like it.
This frustrates many arrogant germans, as I read german car mags every week: when it doesn't come from germany, it automatically s*cks they think. They can't stand that Tesla is years ahead of them, so they speak negatively about the company

It will be revolutionary only when another way is found to provide the current other than storage batteries...

[Thin Lizzy]

The two main problems with Tesla are:

• 1) The cost of the thing.
• 2) The range on a single charge.

Number one I am not addressing here.  Number two is more problematical.

Chemical batteries are limited in their energy density...The amount of charge that it can hold is a function of what the electrolyte and the electrodes are made of.

It will be revolutionary only when another way is found to provide the current other than storage batteries...

Solid post, SP.

This has always been the problem.

The answer is to make a bigger battery, but, that makes the car heavier, requiring more energy to move it.