insulin for the first time..

[herraisland]

going to start using insulin soon as i know exactly what im doing, starting 4iu pre-workout. I have Humalog kwikpen its 300iu pen. my question is... is it must to drink bcaa and creatine monohydrate as a pre, intra and post drink ?

example protocol:

pre- workout:
insulin injection
40gr vitargo and 50gr whey protein

intra workout:
40gr vitargo 50gr whey

post workout:
50gr oats and 50gr whey
post workout:

is this enough or is it crucial to throw in also bcaa in these shakes?

[falco]

Waiting for the insulinwhileonketo team to chime in.

[ritch]

too much intra protein, i'd change it for bcaa powder.

[aintitgrand]

I recently experimented with insulin (humalog). I went up to 6iu without having to ingest any carbs whatsoever. I'd usually pin post-workout and have my pwo meal/shake with 30g carbs half an hour to an hour after injecting.
Start small, always start as low as possible. My first slin shot was only 2iu. I felt nothing, which is what I hoped to "feel". I went up by 1iu every time after that until I hit 6iu, which is when I started getting sweats and lethargy. For me, anything over 6iu requires carbs to "cover" the insulin. Haven't used slin in the last month and an half or so, not worth it for me since I tend to keep my carbs low in general (I gain fat very easily). I was just curious as to how it works so I gave it a shot for a couple months.

And this:

too much intra protein, i'd change it for bcaa powder.

or EAA powder. But I don't think its crucial to throw it in. It will help with recovery, however, especially when using slin.

[ritch]

I recently experimented with insulin (humalog). I went up to 6iu without having to ingest any carbs whatsoever. I'd usually pin post-workout and have my pwo meal/shake with 30g carbs half an hour to an hour after injecting.
Start small, always start as low as possible. My first slin shot was only 2iu. I felt nothing, which is what I hoped to "feel". I went up by 1iu every time after that until I hit 6iu, which is when I started getting sweats and lethargy. For me, anything over 6iu requires carbs to "cover" the insulin. Haven't used slin in the last month and an half or so, not worth it for me since I tend to keep my carbs low in general (I gain fat very easily). I was just curious as to how it works so I gave it a shot for a couple months.

And this:or EAA powder. But I don't think its crucial to throw it in. It will help with recovery, however, especially when using slin.

why restrict food so much on slin?

[herraisland]

I lied to u all... lol. I couldn't wait. Did 4iu sub q 15min b4 gym

20min b4 insulin:
30gr oats and 25 gr protein

Insulin shot:
50gr oats and 25gr protein and 3x 2.4gr dextrose sugar tabs

12 min later gym:
Intra drink. 30gr vitargo and 5gr bcaa

Hour later:
Post workout drink
2 whole egg, 50 gr oats and 25gr protein

20min later
Me writing this, feeling fine. A bit lazy tho

[lilhawk1]

Here's what I do.  Keep in mind, if you're using GH you'll be able to use more insulin generally.  You're not gonna feel shit off 4 iu.  I started with 8 of humalog my first time, and worked up to 25 iu preworkout.  Yes, 25 iu works much better than 8.  Is insulin dangerous?  Of course, but you have to really be dumb to harm yourself with it.  Right now I'm using 10iu humalog preworkout as I just started it again. I take Serostim am before cardio, then again before bed.  Also use T4/T3 combo.  I make 2 identical shakes for my slin..  I have my last whole food meal about 2 hours before workout.  15 minutes before workout I take 10 iu humalog.  Immediately consume shake with.  40 g peptopro, 5 g Creatine, 5 g glutamine, 2 scoops BCAAs, and 60 g of dextrose.  Then sip on exact same shake while working out.  Then after workout I have a meal of egg whites and cream of rice or oatmeal.  This will put a lot of size on in a short amount of time.  No worrying about fat gain with T4/T3 and GH.

[aintitgrand]

why restrict food so much on slin?

I just wanted to see what slin was all about. I always had glucose tabs on me just in case and OJ in the car. I don't have to eat a lot to grow, I've got fat guy genetics so any time I overeat I get fat no matter what I'm running chemically. I only pinned it on leg and back day and I still have over half of the vial left sitting in my fridge lol. Maybe when I get super lean again I'll use it to grow in the hopes of not gaining too much fat, but until then I won't be touching it again. Plus, I'm not running GH, and from what I understand it works wonders along with GH, but is hit and miss when used on its own.

[herraisland]

Here's what I do.  Keep in mind, if you're using GH you'll be able to use more insulin generally.  You're not gonna feel shit off 4 iu.  I started with 8 of humalog my first time, and worked up to 25 iu preworkout.  Yes, 25 iu works much better than 8.  Is insulin dangerous?  Of course, but you have to really be dumb to harm yourself with it.  Right now I'm using 10iu humalog preworkout as I just started it again. I take Serostim am before cardio, then again before bed.  Also use T4/T3 combo.  I make 2 identical shakes for my slin..  I have my last whole food meal about 2 hours before workout.  15 minutes before workout I take 10 iu humalog.  Immediately consume shake with.  40 g peptopro, 5 g Creatine, 5 g glutamine, 2 scoops BCAAs, and 60 g of dextrose.  Then sip on exact same shake while working out.  Then after workout I have a meal of egg whites and cream of rice or oatmeal.  This will put a lot of size on in a short amount of time.  No worrying about fat gain with T4/T3 and GH.

4iu just a start. Think I go to 5iu tomorrow. What do u meant not feeling nothing from 4iu. I felt a bit tired in between. Now I feel good almost 3hours later. U think It won't yield any results doing slin under 7iu ?

[lilhawk1]

4iu just a start. Think I go to 5iu tomorrow. What do u meant not feeling nothing from 4iu. I felt a bit tired in between. Now I feel good almost 3hours later. U think It won't yield any results doing slin under 7iu ?

I meant you're not going to see the benefits of it at 4iu.  You have to use a sufficient dose to get results, which I understand you're just starting out with it, but you can go up more than an iu at a time.  You'll know when it's working.  You will not tire when training, pumps will be painful, and fuller, rounder, pumped all day and all night.  I'm experienced with it, but would never go under 10iu.  I'll slowly work up to 20-30iu this time.  As I said, if using GH, then more insulin can be used.  Works much better with GH and thyroid hormone as well. 

[herraisland]

I meant you're not going to see the benefits of it at 4iu.  You have to use a sufficient dose to get results, which I understand you're just starting out with it, but you can go up more than an iu at a time.  You'll know when it's working.  You will not tire when training, pumps will be painful, and fuller, rounder, pumped all day and all night.  I'm experienced with it, but would never go under 10iu.  I'll slowly work up to 20-30iu this time.  As I said, if using GH, then more insulin can be used.  Works much better with GH and thyroid hormone as well. 

U seem to know a lot about insulin... do you think only oats is enough carbs for insulin humalog ? Or is it to slow acting?

Also lets say I use 10iu, do you think 100gr of carbs split in 3 shakes is enough carbs ?

[Jizmo]

timing is everything with pre workout slin...
timing of injection, timing of carbs and timing of shakes

you use way too many carbs for 4iu. 4iu is a useless dosage anyway.
anything below 10iu is pointless imo.
you need about 10g carbs per iu OVER THE WHOLE TIME SLIN IS ACTIVE. not per shake.
can use more. can also use less.
less is retarded though. you use slin to push nutrients into the muscle. why restrict nutrients then?   i dont get why some retards say use as little carbs as possible lol. completely against the point. unless of course u use 30+ iu or so, then you would just get fat from the ton of carbs you would need to cover it.
just switch a portion of your daily carbs into the intra workout window and thats it.

split the carbs up over 2 hours starting when you inject. get some quickly digested protein in too with the inject. thats it.
fancy shakes are a waste of time. just drink a big ass whey shake with your slin or a couple minutes before. then start ingesting fast acting carbs and working out a couple minutes afterwards.

edits: oats are a very bad choice. if slin hypo hits you you need fast acting carbs. whats the point of oats? they wont even be digested until the slin is already out of your system lol. use dextrose. or simply eat candy during workouts. yup, you got that right.
simple sugars with slin. no oats.

YOU WILL GO HYPO if you use higher dosages of slin and use oats as your carb source. use anything glucose based. if u wanna use liquids use dextrose. if you can eat during workouts use glucose-syrup based candy (no fructose shit or fructose syrup, thats useless)

[herraisland]

timing is everything with pre workout slin...
timing of injection, timing of carbs and timing of shakes

you use way too many carbs for 4iu. 4iu is a useless dosage anyway.
anything below 10iu is pointless imo.
you need about 10g carbs per iu OVER THE WHOLE TIME SLIN IS ACTIVE. not per shake.
can use more. can also use less.
less is retarded though. you use slin to push nutrients into the muscle. why restrict nutrients then?   i dont get why some retards say use as little carbs as possible lol. completely against the point. unless of course u use 30+ iu or so, then you would just get fat from the ton of carbs you would need to cover it.
just switch a portion of your daily carbs into the intra workout window and thats it.

split the carbs up over 2 hours starting when you inject. get some quickly digested protein in too with the inject. thats it.
fancy shakes are a waste of time. just drink a big ass whey shake with your slin or a couple minutes before. then start ingesting fast acting carbs and working out a couple minutes afterwards.

edits: oats are a very bad choice. if slin hypo hits you you need fast acting carbs. whats the point of oats? they wont even be digested until the slin is already out of your system lol. use dextrose. or simply eat candy during workouts. yup, you got that right.
simple sugars with slin. no oats.

YOU WILL GO HYPO if you use higher dosages of slin and use oats as your carb source. use anything glucose based. if u wanna use liquids use dextrose. if you can eat during workouts use glucose-syrup based candy (no fructose shit or fructose syrup, thats useless)

Thanks Jizmo. Yes I know 4iu is pretty little. Just a starting dose.. didn't know if I was insulin sensitive or not.

To make it simple

Preworkout drink with slin (let's say 10iu)
100gr dextrose and 25gr whey

15min later in the gym
100gr dextrose and 5-10 bcaa

Postworkout
100gr dextrose 50gr whey

1hour after last shake
Nice meal with low fat and higher carbs


Or should it be 100gr of sugar combined from all these shakes over these 4hours slin is active

[Jizmo]

10g per iu IN TOTAL. not in every shake. the whole shake protocol is completely confusing and stupid. imo nobody needs 3 shakes with slin.

also split the carbs over 2 hours. thats enough, even rapid slin is pretty much out of your system after 120-150mins.

also no need to drink a shake and then 15mins later drink another shake. and 200g dextrose within 15mins, youre gonna be puking like a madman.
you will also get fat as fuck from that (yes, THAT is an example of way too many carbs).

slin is not magic. it doesnt just shuttle anything in your blood to your muscles lol. the rate that insulin shuttles glucose is very limited. you cant just eat 500g dextrose and inject some slin and expect all that shit to end up in your muscle.

if you look up the pharmacological properties of insulin:
 i think i remember a study that said 10iu of rapid insulin were able to shuttle a maximum of 1-1.5g carbs per minute out of your blood stream. thats 60-90g carbs PER HOUR for 10iu insulin. that was tested via the glucose infusion rate technique.
guess what happens if you have 200g dextrose in 15 minutes. yeah, youre gonna get fat.
look up the absorption speed of dextrose. its completely out of your bloodstream within 30 minutes or so beecause it triggers a huge insulin spike (much higher than the 10iu you would inject beforehand - and thats NOT a good thing)

with dextrose its also MUCH better to sip it throughout the workout.
if you train hard with 10+iu slin in your system you can go hypo if you do a few dropsets or supersets and dont have dextrose for 15 minutes. happened to me more than once. a pre workout shake wont cut it, no matter how much dextrose you put in there.
you also risk reactive hypoglycemia with bolus dosages of dextrose.

the intra BCAAS are also not needed imo.

let me tell you whats easiest and works the best (at least for me).

drink a shake of milk+50g whey. (or mix in some slow digesting protein, so that youre covered for 2 hours or until you can eat a solid meal).
then inject your slin 10-15mins later (give the shake some time to digest first. 50g whey is available in your blood stream for a good 2 hours anyway).
 start your workout another 10-15mins later.
as soon as you start your workout you start sipping on a drink with 10g carbs per iu slin.
split the drink through your whole workout, just take a sip after every set.
just carbs in there, no need for BCAAS or whey. your bloodstream will be saturated with amino acids from the pre workout shake anyway.
post workout you can drink another shake with whey and a few carbs (not necessary if you can eat within 30mins or so though).

thats it. simple as fuck and effective. dont know why people always reiterate that retarded 3 shake protocol. i know some guru invented it but its completely unpractical and - imo - stupid. and yes ive tried it too.
you can add leucine (better than BCAAs) and creatine - and if you want glutamine (waste of money imo though) to your pre or intra shake.

[herraisland]

So just carbs in the workout and little after workout ?
Lol, I was reading a lot of forums and all so complicated protocols. I was thinking it must be a more simple way. Reading many forums on the web=mindfuck

[lilhawk1]

So just carbs in the workout and little after workout ?
Lol, I was reading a lot of forums and all so complicated protocols. I was thinking it must be a more simple way. Reading many forums on the web=mindfuck

I would recommend peptopro or another fast digesting protein in your shake.  Just mix the protein with the amount of carbs you need in Gatorade or dextrose.  Everyone I know uses creatine and some use glutamine as well.  Do not eat any oats or solid food within about 2 hours before workout.  You don't want food sitting in your gut, as it defeats the purpose of the slin and shakes.  No oats either, the dextrose will cover the slin.  I throw BCAAs in there because they're flavored and I get them for free.  Drink one shake right after slin shot, sip on the other during workout. 2 shakes total.  Clean meal after the gym.  Work your ass off in the gym, you will be able to do more work because you will have a shit load more endurance.  If you dont bust your ass in the gym, don't bother with this.  My brother and friend both 275+ and lean, compete nationally use this protocol.  It works.  If you're using GH and thyroid, then you can jack the carbs up more with no fear of getting fat.  If not, then watch the carbs more.  

[herraisland]

I would recommend peptopro or another fast digesting protein in your shake.  Just mix the protein with the amount of carbs you need in Gatorade or dextrose.  Everyone I know uses creatine and some use glutamine as well.  Do not eat any oats or solid food within about 2 hours before workout.  You don't want food sitting in your gut, as it defeats the purpose of the slin and shakes.  No oats either, the dextrose will cover the slin.  I throw BCAAs in there because they're flavored and I get them for free.  Drink one shake right after slin shot, sip on the other during workout. 2 shakes total.  Clean meal after the gym.  Work your ass off in the gym, you will be able to do more work because you will have a shit load more endurance.  If you dont bust your ass in the gym, don't bother with this.  My brother and friend both 275+ and lean, compete nationally use this protocol.  It works.  If you're using GH and thyroid, then you can jack the carbs up more with no fear of getting fat.  If not, then watch the carbs more.  

Thank you, just bought 1kg of dextrose. Going to bump up to 6iu tomorrow.

Do you also take insulin on off days? If so is it similar protocol to insulin preworkout

[pellius]

Thank you, just bought 1kg of dextrose. Going to bump up to 6iu tomorrow.

Do you also take insulin on off days? If so is it similar protocol to insulin preworkout

Instead of buying dextrose or those fast acting carbs sold in nutrition stores why not just use regular sugar for $2.50/4lb?

You just want fast acting carbs and the fastest acting is sugar. Dextrose is great but I don't think it's worth the extra cost.

[lilhawk1]

Sugar is not the fastest acting.  Dextrose and sucrose(table sugar) are not absorbed at the same rate.  Dextrose is identical to glucose(blood sugar), and is ready to be absorbed, and is absorbed the fastest.  Sucrose is made up one molecule of fructose and one molecule of glucose and is absorbed at a slower rate because the digestive enzymes must break down the sucrose.  The glucose goes to the small intestine for absorption, but the fructose goes to the liver for further metabolism.  So don't use sucrose, use dextrose.  I don't use insulin on off days from the gym.  Only use it during training.  

[Jizmo]

this^^
sugar is half fructose half dextrose. fructose is useless for slin use. additionally your liver only stores ~50grams of fructose, anything else goes straight into your bodyfat if its not burned off. so if you try to cover 15ius of slin with 150g sugar you WILL gain bodyfat.
dextrose is a much better choice and also has a higher glycemic index.

[pellius]

Sucrose may not be as fast acting as glucose but is it fast enough? Is the difference that huge? How many eat bananas when they are going hypo and are fine within minutes? Or those that drink fruit juice when getting symptoms? Remember Mike Morris said in his interview how he rushed home after getting symptoms and ate oat meal? Oat meal. A complex carb.

And whether you eat oatmeal, a banana or jelly beans all carbs are converted to glucose.

A fella I know who uses insulin left a vial in his car and wasn't sure if it was still good. He injected 10iu of Humulin R first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and waited. After about 35 minutes he felt himself going hypo. Started sweating and getting groggy. Drank a glass of apple juice spike with 5 table spoons of sugar and was fine within minutes. Had a good breakfast and went about his day. The insulin went back in the fridge and was good to go.

Lets not forget gh15 always talking about drinking pineapple juice, fructose, to get him out of hypo.

[lilhawk1]

It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on.  Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs.  In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose.  Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose.  Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats?  He had no form of simple sugars in his house?  Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats..  That's retarded. 

[Jizmo]

lol hopefully 10iu not cc pellius
and yeah, ive left a half used insulin vial in my drawer (not cooled), 3 months later it had lost ZERO potency. insulin is very stable.

and yes, ALL carbs work with insulin, but fructuse is WAY inferior to glucose for the reasons i mentioned.
oats are also borderline DANGEROUS, because they take forever to be broken down into glucose molecules.
you want to use the most PREDICTABLE carbs with insulin. whole foods are a very bad choice imo.
only "whole food" you could use is candy. it raises your blood glucose within a minute or two, ive tested that. basically just as fast as a glucose-liquid.

some guys use gatorade. its WORKS too. however its inferior (unless theres gatorade with pure glucose in it, i dont know).
fruit juices are also a bad choice.
i would use as much glucose and as little fructose as possible fructose is simply useless.

It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on.  Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs.  In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose.  Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose.  Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats?  He had no form of simple sugars in his house?  Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats..  That's retarded.  

very true.
HOWEVER glucagon is a hormone though, it has nothing to do with glucose

[lilhawk1]

You're correct about glucagon, I meant to say amps of D50(dextrose) are given in the emergency room. 

[herraisland]

Did 5iu in the morning and 6iu preworkout. Think I move up to 8 or 10iu tomorrow.