Author Topic: insulin for the first time.. (Read 24990 times)

ritch · « **Reply #75 on:** November 30, 2015, 01:53:10 AM »

it explains it well, just not defined as I thought it was. I take 100mg of na-r-ala once a day and that stuff works.

But see why I "give up" on trying to gain? Most blow the hell up on 600 grams of carbs, not me and I hate to eat.

Bah, 225ish ain't so bad but always thought I'd be bigger because of gear. More gear does not really make me bigger either, just better shape.

Could be worse but will surely appreciate my fast metabolism in the years to come as most get fat with age, I'll just retain my build better I think.

Thanks for your response, was nicely detailed!

edit: maybe I should try the pie filling gimmick? haha...

Jizmo · « **Reply #76 on:** November 30, 2015, 02:04:32 AM »

yeah you will certainly stay leaner when u get older i guess.

my best buddy is like you...
hes eating 5000 kcals a day and not gaining a fucking pound.
hes using the same AAS as i do, dosages a bit lower, but no t3 or slin.
hes the same weight as me, a bit taller and a couple % higher on BF, but he can literally eat twice as much as me and not get fat.
not even when hes off tren.
keep in mind he has never been shredded either, so not a real ecto.
hes always in barely visible sixpack mode, no matter how hard he stuffs his face. always looks very lean though with clothes on.
hes on test deca and anadrol right now but looks very lean and dry and his face is also sunken in (at 12-13% bf) on a diet of mcdonalds and pizza for at least half his calories LOL. fucking genetics.

if i would eat his diet i would blow up, body and face. i could probably get to 250lbs within weeks as a bloated mofo with a pumpkin head with his diet.
and he cant crack the 200lbs lean.

told him to get off tren, stop using stims, use aromatizing compounds etc, but he just doesnt blow up. hes lacking that "pop" big time, always looks stringy and dry no matter what he uses.
only thing weve got left to try to make him explode is slin, but hes one of the guys who would probably fuck it up because he cant keep a clear head and is always a bit out of his mind, so were hesitant with slin.

ritch · « **Reply #77 on:** November 30, 2015, 02:31:16 AM »

That sounds a lot like me. Even when "bulking" my face gets too thin if I take too much AI. By too much I mean 12.5mg eod for test/dbal or anadrol use. The deca is starting to work so finally I seem to be filling out somewhat. Face is actually a bit fuller and scale weight up and should not happen as I've been under eating for what I need to do lately. But what else is new?...

I'd start your buddy with a pre workout slin shot then a shot of humalin R placed somewhere in the day.

heenok · « **Reply #78 on:** November 30, 2015, 03:47:53 AM »

Quote from: Jizmo on November 30, 2015, 02:04:32 AM

only thing weve got left to try to make him explode is slin, but hes one of the guys who would probably fuck it up because he cant keep a clear head and is always a bit out of his mind, so were hesitant with slin.

loooooooooool

Jizmo · « **Reply #79 on:** November 30, 2015, 03:56:35 AM »

Quote from: heenok on November 30, 2015, 03:47:53 AM

loooooooooool

no shit, sometimes you walk around with him talking and then he just stops and stands there
... and i know hes fucking thinking about something and forgets to keep on walking. dead srs.
this happens all the time

i also have to bring him food all the time (to the gym, hes a personal trainer). he keeps forgetting to bring along something for his 10 hours shifts lol.

when he leaves his apartment or car he always stops for A MINUTE and goes through his head if he forgot something:
wallet, keys.
he doesnt even carry anything else with him LOL but it takes him a whole minute

now i guess you understand why were thinking twice before putting him on slin lol
he would probably shoot insulin twice because he would forget that 1 minute earlier he already injected
or hed forget to grab his carbs to the gym for sure

herraisland · « **Reply #80 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:11:42 AM »

me and my friend have been on slin for 5 days now... i did 15iu in the morning, gonna do higher preworkout after few hours... I have actually lost 1kg, what is happening? anyone experienced it ? i have got from 103kg to 102kg.. i was expecting gaining like crazy

He is doing fine... he loves that stuff and im wondering what is so special about it.... my pen has full potency, i tried yesterday not to eat for some time after injection, to know is it has lost all its potencty. i started to feel like shit after about 20 min and.

Jizmo · « **Reply #81 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:18:49 AM »

insulin weirdly can have slight diuretic effects, give it time.
also the dosages you used at the beginning were useless. any lower than 10iu is pointless imo. 15iu is fine. i never went above 15iu, usually use between 10-15. my next run i might increase to 20iu but my workouts consist of a lot of supersets, dropsets, no rest exercises etc so any higher than 15iu might kill my intensity because of hypo issues. we will see, i will blast again at january 1st.

how many carbs are you eating during the active time and in the meal after?

also keep in mind that pre workout is NOTHING like in the morning or whenever. so dont increase too quickly.
with pre workout slin you go hypo MUCH faster than at any other time of the day.

my personal opinion: use it pre workout only. any other time of the day is a waste of time. keep insulin sensitivity as high as possible, pre workout is by far the best time to use insulin and you want it to work as good as possible at that time.

herraisland · « **Reply #82 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:37:44 AM »

do you live one getbig forums ? lol. Always with so fast and good answers.

Yes i did got very low, wasnt sure how i would react to it. But what i found out for myself from all those horror stories online, you got to be pretty stupid to fuck up..

This is exactly how i do it Preworkout:

20min b4 training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed

15min b4 training:
15iu slin

training:
150gr of dextrose with some bcaa product i have left

Post training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed.

1 hour post training:
the same as post training or chicken with rice.

I usually dont drink all my intra workout. Like yesterday i did legs and i used 12iu and im guessing i only had about 90gr of sugar in the workout.

herraisland · « **Reply #83 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:42:03 AM »

and if dont use growth hormone... is it useless for me to use slin?

Jizmo · « **Reply #84 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:58:04 AM »

i just browse getbig during boring lectures at university

honestly i would skip both the oat meals.
you dont need carbs beforehand if your intra shake covers your needs.
i always inject slin on empty stomach with my whey shake (see below).
the oat meals are a waste of time.
also too little protein beforehand...

let me tell you how i do it.

drink a shake 50g whey+half liter of skim milk (this doesnt even really need carbs in it, just use half a litre of skim milk thats enough).
then inject slin a couple mins later
15mins later start workout and start your intra carbs
by that time both the whey will have hit your bloodstream and the slin too. crucial.
sip intra carbs throughout workout
drink the rest afterwards if theres any left (i actually consume about 100g carbs for 15iu during my workout and the rest right afterwards)
go home, cook a meal, eat
(no need to hurry, the intra carbs easily last for an hour afterwards too, you wont go hypo)
eat the carbs that you would have in both your oat meals in your POST workout meal. trust me. you will gain weight with that. the 5-6 hours following your insulin injection are crucial. it works even after its out of your blood. see below

you want to flood your blood with aminos and glucose DURING the time the slin is active AND with carbs afterwards (insulin relocates glut4 to the cell surface. glut4 = glucose transporters in your muscle cells. this lasts for about 5-6 hours post injection.
see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832307 (thats what "effects on carbohydrate metabolism" hints at. as you can see, glucose uptake peaks at 2-3 hours, which is about the time you should eat your PWO meal.).

your workout does the same thing basically (glut4 relocation). so the post workout meal is very important. you basically get very strong glut4 relocation through both the slin and your workout, which makes u suck up a ton of carbs during those couple hours).

btw, insulin works just as well without GH.
high doses of GH need insulin (because of high blood sugar). insulin doesnt need GH.
i also never noticed additional fat gain with slin, however i dont use it without tren.

herraisland · « **Reply #85 on:** November 30, 2015, 08:20:31 AM »

im gonna put my trust on you stranger

I remember what you wrote. gonna try it tonight when i go to the gym. But you think its not maybe a too much carbs ? 150gr intra workout and 100gr oats post workout(about 65gr complex carbs)?

The reason why i am so obbsesed with oats is that, i believe it helped me so much this year... i was always stuck at 92kg and i added about 100gr oats 5x over the day and i got to 106kg and still with the same bodyfat 12%. Now im currently 102kg. i eat about 250gr oats now..

one question more... is it ok to run insulin 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off ?

Thanks Jizmo, have learned a lot from you. cheers

pissant · « **Reply #86 on:** November 30, 2015, 08:42:10 AM »

post for later...

But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...

Also what slin do you use jiz?

pestosterone · « **Reply #87 on:** November 30, 2015, 10:26:48 AM »

Quote from: ritch on November 30, 2015, 01:53:10 AM

it explains it well, just not defined as I thought it was. I take 100mg of na-r-ala once a day and that stuff works.

But see why I "give up" on trying to gain? Most blow the hell up on 600 grams of carbs, not me and I hate to eat.

Bah, 225ish ain't so bad but always thought I'd be bigger because of gear. More gear does not really make me bigger either, just better shape.

Could be worse but will surely appreciate my fast metabolism in the years to come as most get fat with age, I'll just retain my build better I think.

Thanks for your response, was nicely detailed!

edit: maybe I should try the pie filling gimmick? haha...

how much protein u eat with 600 gram carbs?

Jizmo · « **Reply #88 on:** November 30, 2015, 11:16:29 AM »

Quote from: herraisland on November 30, 2015, 08:20:31 AM

im gonna put my trust on you stranger I remember what you wrote. gonna try it tonight when i go to the gym. But you think its not maybe a too much carbs ? 150gr intra workout and 100gr oats post workout(about 65gr complex carbs)?

The reason why i am so obbsesed with oats is that, i believe it helped me so much this year... i was always stuck at 92kg and i added about 100gr oats 5x over the day and i got to 106kg and still with the same bodyfat 12%. Now im currently 102kg. i eat about 250gr oats now..

one question more... is it ok to run insulin 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off ?

Thanks Jizmo, have learned a lot from you. cheers

thats just 200g carbs, thats actually very little.
i would make my post workout meal the biggest meal of the day.. i usually take in 150g carbs intra workout and then another ~150g in my post workout meal. im also always damn hungry after training so i couldnt even do it any other way if i tried.
keep in mind i only eat 3 meals a day though (plus the shake/intra). so i have around 400-450g carbs a day in total. 2/3 of that are around the slin active time.

imo the best time to push carbs is 1. post workout and 2. when you have insulin in your blood and shortly afterwards. (so if u use pre workout insulin then post workout really is your best time to grow).

you could probably even get leaner AND bigger simultaneously by taking the main part of your daily carbs and putting them into the intra and post workout window (while the slin is active).
honestly when i was bulking and not using slin i would usually train fasted and then kill 300g or so of carbs all at once post workout ... and it never made me fatter than splitting them up over the day...

by the way, its not the oats that helped you gain a lot but the 300g of carbs that they provided

oh and the last question. get yourself a blood glucose meter and test your morning blood sugar every couple days.
if your morning blood sugar goes over 90 then stop using the insulin because youre getting desensitized.
IN MY OPINION you can run insulin indefinitely IF you only use rapid insulin and only use it pre workout.
ive used it for 12 weeks straight for example and my morning blood sugar didnt move at all.
i was still between 70-80 every morning after 12 weeks of continuous slin use.
but this is probably very individual, so best way to see how it works for you is testing regularly

Quote from: pissant on November 30, 2015, 08:42:10 AM

post for later...

But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...

Also what slin do you use jiz?

i dont know. because theyre gh15tardos

pro BBers always got GH in their blood and of course GH and slin work synergistically. maybe GH is needed with multiple times a day insulin dosing. i dont know. some people even get leaner with intelligent slin use though. id bet my ass that nobody will get fat with sensible pre workout rapid insulin use...

i use novolog (same as humalog). ONLY EVER use rapid insulin.
hyperinsulinemia (chronically high insulin levels) cause desensitization. i wont ever touch anything else but rapid slin.

pissant · « **Reply #89 on:** November 30, 2015, 11:32:31 AM »

jizmo autograph my dick bro!

ritch · « **Reply #90 on:** November 30, 2015, 03:53:02 PM »

Quote from: pestosterone on November 30, 2015, 10:26:48 AM

how much protein u eat with 600 gram carbs?

250 grams about. Lots of fats also. High everything actually.

ritch · « **Reply #91 on:** November 30, 2015, 04:40:31 PM »

k...
I'm gonna give this another try.

2 hours before training I eat 100 grams of carbs from noodles, 50ish grams protein from chicken thighs.

Got close to 2 cups of milk ready to mix with 35gr protein 20ish min pre training.

then do 20 units humalog.

Intra workout sip on 120 grams gatorade with 20ish grams of bcaa.

Post. Here is my problem Jizmo. All those liquids keep me full a long time so I opt for liquid again post training, by this time it's 11pm. I normally have 60 grams carbs from pinneaple juice, then another 40 grams protein from whey.

2hours later, before bed, whole 500ml container of greek yogurt with some organic berries and pinneaple for health/digestion.

What I'm thinking of doing tonight is everything as layed out, add a banana to the post drink to get 80 grams total carbs with the 40ish protein from iso.

before bed, keep the yogurt and berries, if I have room, add a bagel (50ish carbs from them) I get 45 grams protein from the yogurt, close to 80 grams carbs with the yogurt and berries. Could add a table spoon of natural peanut butter to increase cals was thinking.

I know that's not much real food but real food post training would not allow me to eat again before bed and no way would real food go down after all that liquid.

What do you think of this plan?

I've always liked the idea of timing carbs around the training and slin as well as you mentioned. But most my meals have at least 80 grams of carbs anyway, slin or no slin or I deflate like you've never seen..

lilhawk1 · « **Reply #92 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:13:03 PM »

Quote from: pissant on November 30, 2015, 08:42:10 AM

post for later...

But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...

Also what slin do you use jiz?

GH and slin work synergistically, add Thyroid hormone and you have the perfect cocktail to grow and get lean. Slin can make you fat quickly if you're eating too much with it, unless your using GH, then it's pretty hard to get fat. So there is some merit to that. Like Jizmo said, only use humalog. It's easy to control, in and out quickly. I know guys that use it non stop pre workout with zero problems. If you're using GH I think slin is a must. 4 iu of Serostim raises my fasted glucose by about 25 ng/dl

lilhawk1 · « **Reply #93 on:** November 30, 2015, 06:20:04 PM »

Quote from: herraisland on November 30, 2015, 06:37:44 AM

do you live one getbig forums ? lol. Always with so fast and good answers.

Yes i did got very low, wasnt sure how i would react to it. But what i found out for myself from all those horror stories online, you got to be pretty stupid to fuck up..

This is exactly how i do it Preworkout:

20min b4 training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed

15min b4 training:
15iu slin

training:
150gr of dextrose with some bcaa product i have left

Post training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed.

1 hour post training:
the same as post training or chicken with rice.

I usually dont drink all my intra workout. Like yesterday i did legs and i used 12iu and im guessing i only had about 90gr of sugar in the workout.

Get rid of the oats and eggs before your workout, they're just going to be sitting in your gut your whole workout. Replace those carbs with dextrose, and get a fast digesting protein. The whole purpose of this is to have the nutrients in their simplest, most easily digested form. Your defeating the purpose with the oats and eggs. This really is simple and you'd get great results if you'd incorporate the proper ingredients.

Jizmo · « **Reply #94 on:** December 01, 2015, 12:30:52 AM »

ritch your plan looks good.
i would make your last 2 "meals" (the one with the pineapple juice and the pre bed meal) one...
honestly im always hungry as fuck right after working out and thats a timing issue with slin. if you let yourself go hypo then youre gonna be full and bloated AS FUCK, because your body wont put any energy into digesting... its fight or flight mode, smooth muscle (digestion) basically stops working...
i always had that when i experimented with slin and timed it wrong
dextrose also pulls water into the intestine so you get bloated...

you can wait around an hour or so after your workout without your blood sugar going down from the intra carbs, so when an hour has passed you could eat again.. i would have 100g carbs 50g protein in the pwo meal at least to make use of glut4.

if liquids fill you up too much during workouts then try candy... you can essentially get 150g carbs (glucose syrup (=glucose) and sugar, depending on the kind of candy, opt for the one with the most glucose syrup) with just 200g of candy.
yeah people will look at you funny during your workout but who the fuck cares. candy works much better for me than liquids, less disgusting. a big amount of dextrose also bloats my stomach, because it draws water into the intestine. with candy i dont have these issues.

WOOO · « **Reply #95 on:** December 01, 2015, 01:03:00 AM »

Have you ever finger prick tested your blood sugar every 15 minutes to work out your timing or do you just go by feel?

When I tried keto I was constantly piss and blood testing to understand how different food combinations affected me over time.

Jizmo · « **Reply #96 on:** December 01, 2015, 06:08:59 AM »

Quote from: WOOO on December 01, 2015, 01:03:00 AM

Have you ever finger prick tested your blood sugar every 15 minutes to work out your timing or do you just go by feel?

When I tried keto I was constantly piss and blood testing to understand how different food combinations affected me over time.

i probably pricked my fingers 100 times in 3 weeks to work out the best possible way to time this shit. not every 15 minutes but more like every 5 minutes...
you can go from completely fine to hypo within 10 minutes with 10+ iu... BS usually starts dropping low at the 30 minute mark after injection, until then only very minor changes (like going from 90 to 80 or 70). after the 30 minute mark you begin to feel funky.
from min 30 to min 40 i always dropped down to 50ish. it hits you hard after 30 mins.
lowest i measured was 45 i think. believe me that was CLOSE.
goodbye if you dont have food in after 45mins

i also measured every morning
doenst help that 100 test strips run for about 60 bucks here
costed more than the insulin itself lol
nowadays i got the timing down so i test maybe every 2 weeks to evaluate if my sensitivity is still fine (it always is, lol) or to test some supps effects like berberine, metformin, ALA etc

lilhawk1 · « **Reply #97 on:** December 01, 2015, 06:48:56 AM »

Quote from: ritch on November 30, 2015, 04:40:31 PM

k...
I'm gonna give this another try.

2 hours before training I eat 100 grams of carbs from noodles, 50ish grams protein from chicken thighs.

Got close to 2 cups of milk ready to mix with 35gr protein 20ish min pre training.

then do 20 units humalog.

Intra workout sip on 120 grams gatorade with 20ish grams of bcaa.

Post. Here is my problem Jizmo. All those liquids keep me full a long time so I opt for liquid again post training, by this time it's 11pm. I normally have 60 grams carbs from pinneaple juice, then another 40 grams protein from whey.

2hours later, before bed, whole 500ml container of greek yogurt with some organic berries and pinneaple for health/digestion.

What I'm thinking of doing tonight is everything as layed out, add a banana to the post drink to get 80 grams total carbs with the 40ish protein from iso.

before bed, keep the yogurt and berries, if I have room, add a bagel (50ish carbs from them) I get 45 grams protein from the yogurt, close to 80 grams carbs with the yogurt and berries. Could add a table spoon of natural peanut butter to increase cals was thinking.

I know that's not much real food but real food post training would not allow me to eat again before bed and no way would real food go down after all that liquid.

What do you think of this plan?

I've always liked the idea of timing carbs around the training and slin as well as you mentioned. But most my meals have at least 80 grams of carbs anyway, slin or no slin or I deflate like you've never seen..

If you're feeling full from the liquid I would drop the milk before your workout. Dairy products in general make you feel full and bloated, and the milk protein digests much slower than other proteins you could use. Gatorade is good, that's what I use. Try using less liquid with it, this will make your shakes much sweeter, but might help with the fullness. Make your pre workout shake and intraworkout shake with the exact same ingredients, no reason not to. Just adjust the amount of carbs you need.

WOOO · « **Reply #98 on:** December 01, 2015, 09:05:50 AM »

Quote from: Jizmo on December 01, 2015, 06:08:59 AM

i probably pricked my fingers 100 times in 3 weeks to work out the best possible way to time this shit. not every 15 minutes but more like every 5 minutes...
you can go from completely fine to hypo within 10 minutes with 10+ iu... BS usually starts dropping low at the 30 minute mark after injection, until then only very minor changes (like going from 90 to 80 or 70). after the 30 minute mark you begin to feel funky.
from min 30 to min 40 i always dropped down to 50ish. it hits you hard after 30 mins.
lowest i measured was 45 i think. believe me that was CLOSE.
goodbye if you dont have food in after 45mins

i also measured every morning
doenst help that 100 test strips run for about 60 bucks here
costed more than the insulin itself lol
nowadays i got the timing down so i test maybe every 2 weeks to evaluate if my sensitivity is still fine (it always is, lol) or to test some supps effects like berberine, metformin, ALA etc

Good stuff

ritch · « **Reply #99 on:** December 01, 2015, 11:03:42 AM »

Some solid advice from both lilhawk1 and Jizmo. Gonna take a bit of advice from both of ya. The milk pre workout seemed odd, lol, but stomach was fine last night. Was surprised as I have eaten about 1.5hrs before that. I have the 0 lactose stuff. But do agree the milk proteins don't get in fast enough. I did add iso powder to it but. I think both methods would work.

I was thinking of eating licorice pre workout with the iso but that just puts more "stuff" in my stomach compared to the iso drink mixed in milk or some gatorade.

I guess I could try some gatorade in vanilla iso for the pre workout. About 40ish grams of each.

But I'm pretty much stuck with my 2 500ml bottles intra workout. Each bottle has 50-60 grams gatorade with 10 grams bcaa powder. I'm always thirsty for 1 litre of liquid intra workout as a training is never under 1.5hrs anyway.

If I were to add carbs, from that point, I'd add licorice as the 60 gram gatorade bottles taste very sweet as is, can't make em stronger. I may add licorice as I wanna go high in the pre workout dose. Done up to 30 units before.

for post, I'm kinda stuck with my plan as is. I think I'll add grounded oat powder to the whey and rest of the mix for more carbs and cals. This will bump me to 120 carbs post.

Had the bagel with the yogurt and berries before bed. Lots of cals again, and easy to eat.

This was the first time I ever seek help with slin use guys and can't remember the last I ever asked for help gear wise. Thanks again for the solid advice guys!