This continuous rat-race: The Omnipotent skylord dogs are inferior meltdown

[devilsmile]

At 25 year's old, I more often than not find myself pondering about the point of it all.

Things that used to inspire me, now seem bland and uninteresting, childish perhaps. But without any replacement or distractions, leave me empty and without a purpose. Having lived abroad for a significant amount of time has left me feeling 'home-less', and in constant need for change. Much like my circle of friends changes every so often due to relocation or pursuit of different careers.

For the most part I have always been content with my life, thinking I had it on lock.
Working towards a degree, at whatever pace. Partying on the side, working out, and the random hook-ups here and there.

The reality, is that for years I have lived an existence revolving around alcohol, drugs and absolutely meaningless relationships and emotionless sex.
With my body currently failing me, having been bed-ridden the last few days, coughing up blood and practically choking on mucus.
In the wake of a failing relationship I actually cared about, and who might even be pregnant of me, I feel like I'm getting closer each day to losing it.

My thoughts seem to bounce back and forth between shutting myself off to everything and lashing out at the leasts of triggers. Where randomly punching someone to a pulp appears just as appealing as a vanilla icecream on a hot summer day.

Sure, there are ups and downs. And in the end I will probably be fine.
Yet I simply do not see a point other than living towards the next meal or drink for the sake of keeping this drudged cycle going.


Hopefully either the anti-biotics start kicking in and I can finally hit the gym again to clear my mind, or it turns out to be terminal. I'm fine with either.


What's your purpose in life? What makes you tick?

I'm late to this thread. But I'll say something.

I think people today need to realize that they are nothing but star dust, that their opinions and emotions aren't really relevant or important. But it's hard to see that when you experience these feelings. Another thing people need to realize is that the world is completely unfair when it comes to starting from an even playfield, because everyone gets their own set of cards and they have to work with them the best they can. The one mistake people do is to try to be something they just are not fit to be either mentally or physically which usually leads to depression, frustration, apathy or whatever.

Peope almost never think about the shit they really need, just what they want, because the fact is if you erase all the artificial influence created by man (social media, commercials, news etc.etc.) you don't need much. Your insignificant feelings that empower your thoughts at a given time are nothing compared to the physical design of your body that is here only to survive as long as possible to reproduce and then it's a done deal.

 Given that fact, it's always interesting to see what people turn into and is no way a reason to throw your life away because it seems meaningless. This is a temporary time we're here for, do whatever you want with it.

[pellius]

Bertrand Russells quote on life is awe-inspiring.

Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind. These passions, like great winds, have blown me hither and thither, in a wayward course, over a great ocean of anguish, reaching to the very verge of despair.

 I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy - ecstasy so great that I would often have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it, next, because it relieves loneliness--that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what--at last--I have found.

With equal passion I have sought knowledge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this, but not much, I have achieved.

 Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my heart. Children in famine, victims tortured by oppressors, helpless old people a burden to their sons, and the whole world of loneliness, poverty, and pain make a mockery of what human life should be. I long to alleviate this evil, but I cannot, and I too suffer.

 This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and would gladly live it again if the chance were offered me.

Although I read a lot of Eastern Philosophy in high school (due in no small part to the T series "Kung Fu" -- lol) it was Bertrand Russell that was my first Philosophy "guru" (I was 18 years old at the time). He not only helped clarify my thinking at a time when I left my Christian faith a few years earlier much to the horror of my family, he also inspired me to educate myself with the various great thinkers in the world as well as to major in Philosophy in college until I realized I wasn't going to get a job with a Philosophy major unless I wanted to get a PhD and teach.

We've obviously parted ways but he still has a soft spot in my heart and brings back many happy memories of me thinking, "Yes! Yes! That's what I mean! That's what I was trying to say!"

[pellius]

I like James Watson's outlook better.

Yes, I always say that the best life on this earth is the one live by the American family dog.

Too bad we find ourselves thinking and contemplating the meaning of life.

[devilsmile]

Yes, I always say that the best life on the earth is the one live by the American family dog.

Too bad we find ourselves thinking and contemplating the meaning of life.

Yeah. Just like diognese said to alexander the great to "step away from my sun" after he told diognese to ask him for anything, lol

[OB1]

Rat Race

[pellius]

Yeah. Just like diognese said to alexander the great to "step away from my sun" after he told diognese to ask him for anything, lol

Look at you! All educated and stuff. Where did you hear that?

It won't be too long, as my mind continues to fail, that you will see me walking along the beaches of Hawaii carrying a lamp in broad daylight looking for "an honest man". LOL!

[da_vinci]

Whole heartedly disagree on this. It has to do with the relationship between expectations and gratitude. You can have one or the other but not both. And it is gratitude that is one of the prerequisites for happiness. It is expectations, what you think life should be, that is one of the main causes of disappointment and subsequent depression.

I guaran-damn-tee you that if I took someone currently living in Dafur and traded places with him for the OP the "Dafurian" would think that he just won the lottery while the OP would forget about his depression as he tries to avoid getting slaughtered by the Muslims and finding clean drinking water and food.

Paul Brand, author of the book, Pain: The Gift Nobody Wants, remarked how depression was confined mostly to first world nations. Contemplating the meaning of life, your role in it, and your fate and future is a luxury. When you are living hand to mouth everyday you are too preoccupied with your survival and the survival of your family to even begin to feel sorry for yourself.

I think you are going a lil bit poethic on this matter. To boil it down to the simplest form possible - depression is when a human feels weak in the enviroment that he currently lives in and in conditions that surround him. Regarding animals being depressed, it's just by human terms, by animal terms that depression is manifested in a simpler way (due to their mind being less complex). Such an animal is just constantly scared, keeping it "low key", doesn't trust anyone, always looking for someone to harm him. I'm sure you've seen such a lost dog or some other animal on Animal Planet. Feelings of humans are literally the same as in all other animals, we just like to rationalize them and coat in our intelligent cover, but in essence it's nothing more, just a computer calculating the odds of survival and letting us know whether they are good (=happy) or bad (=unhappy. If for a long time = depressed). Most alcoholics are that way because they were depressed, usualy it's not because they thought a lot "about life", but for more simple reasons - failed in work field, failed in relathionships, just failed in some fields that are important for them and can't accept it, can't deal with the sadness.

[FitnessFrenzy]

Depression requires some contemplation, introspection and self-examination? Animals don't get depressed.

so a Zoo elephant which walks around in circles 1000 times each day, while looking into the ground, is not depressed?

there are plenty of examples of cages zoo animals which this sad behaviour.

[pellius]

I think you are going a lil bit poethic on this matter. To boil it down to the simplest form possible - depression is when a human feels weak in the enviroment that he currently lives in and in conditions that surround him. Regarding animals being depressed, it's just by human terms, by animal terms that depression is manifested in a simpler way (due to their mind being less complex). Such an animal is just constantly scared, keeping it "low key", doesn't trust anyone, always looking for someone to harm him. I'm sure you've seen such a lost dog or some other animal on Animal Planet. Feelings of humans are literally the same as in all other animals, we just like to rationalize them and coat in our intelligent cover, but in essence it's nothing more, just a computer calculating the odds of survival and letting us know whether they are good (=happy) or bad (=unhappy. If for a long time = depressed). Most alcoholics are that way because they were depressed, usualy it's not because they thought a lot "about life", but for more simple reasons - failed in work field, failed in relathionships, just failed in some fields that are important for them and can't accept it, can't deal with the sadness.

"Feelings of humans are literally the same as in all other animals"

What? You strike me as a very intelligent guy but how can you say something like this? A mouse (which is most used in experiments transferable to humans) has the same feelings as you and me? Does it feel love for the various female mice it humps every chance it gets. Does it worry about the future of it's offspring and hopes he raise them with the right values? Does a male lion feel a bit of remorse when it kills the cubs, watching it cringe in fear and pain, of other lions because it threatens his gene pool? Does a mongoose wonder how it's son it doing and is he living a happy and productive life. Does he he feel sadness because his offspring never keeps in contact anymore. When I took a puppy from a litter I don't remember the mom giving a crap and there didn't seem to be any evidence that it wonder why all it's children were taken away and gone? If you're a caribou and you hurt your leg and walk with a limp nobody in the herd is going to look after you, protect you -- they abandon you as you just attract predators. You either keep up or die. Nobody feels guilty.

This is what happens as our society has gotten more secular. Humans are just another animal. We don't have souls. You can't rise above our animal nature. Does an animal ever contemplate the moral implications of it's behavior? Almost a year ago a woman who lived alone and was a shut in and had no family or friends died. Nobody notice until after almost three weeks because of the smell. They found her carcass rotting as her cats were feeding on her. The cats she loved and cared for all their lives. What do you think was going on in the mind of the first cat that decided to take a bite? Nothing. The cat was starving and there was dead meat right there for the taking. No rationalization where it's "Sorry mom but no use all of us die".

Animal act solely of instinct not feelings.

[pellius]

so a Zoo elephant which walks around in circles 1000 times each day, while looking into the ground, is not depressed?

there are plenty of examples of cages zoo animals which this sad behaviour.

No. Again don't conflate unhappiness or personal discomfort with depression. An elephant is not contemplating it's past, present and future. There is no self-reflection and comparing how life is and how it should be. He's not thinking that he should be in Africa walking endlessly across the plains looking for grub and water.

BTW, I've never seen an elephant walking around in circles a 1000 times a day. They just stand there just like they do in the wild until it's time to find greener pasture.  As long as the pasture is green it will just stand there shuffling around only when necessary.

And I've never ever seen a caged zoo animal acting sad let alone depressed. Compare to their life in the wild: nasty, brutal and short, they are worry free. Plenty of examples? Show me one.

As long as an animal physical needs and comfort is taken care of it's all good. It doesn't worry about the meaning of life and if it's living up to it's full potential.

[FitnessFrenzy]

No. Again don't conflate unhappiness or personal discomfort with depression. An elephant is not contemplating it's past, present and future. There is no self-reflection and comparing how life is and how it should be. He's not thinking that he should be in Africa walking endlessly across the plains looking for grub and water.

BTW, I've never seen an elephant walking around in circles a 1000 times a day. They just stand there just like they do in the wild until it's time to find greener pasture.  As long as the pasture is green it will just stand there shuffling around only when necessary.

And I've never ever seen a caged zoo animal acting sad let alone depressed. Compare to their life in the wild: nasty, brutal and short, they are worry free. Plenty of examples? Show me one.

As long as an animal physical needs and comfort is taken care of it's all good. It doesn't worry about the meaning of life and if it's living up to it's full potential.

you might know more about how to define unhappiness vs. depresssion, than I do. And if that is the case, I obviously respect this.

There is no doubt, however, that some caged zoo animals are unhappy / sad or whatever you want to call it. Don't you agree?

[devilsmile]

Look at you! All educated and stuff. Where did you hear that?

It won't be too long, as my mind continues to fail, that you will see me walking along the beaches of Hawaii carrying a lamp in broad daylight looking for "an honest man". LOL!

Oh yeah I'm really educated, bruh ! I've read some shit here and there, lol.

Love that what you said about honesty, tho!

But most peoples lives are a meme, their thoughts are a dream and their philosophy a slogan

[FitnessFrenzy]

and pellius, here is a scientific article about possible depression in animals:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leslie_Meltzer/publication/6223216_High-speed_imaging_reveals_neurophysiological_links_to_behavior_in_an_animal_model_of_depression/links/00b4953c6617cf36be000000.pdf

[pellius]

you might know more about how to define unhappiness vs. depresssion, than I do. And if that is the case, I obviously respect this.

There is no doubt, however, that some caged zoo animals are unhappy / sad or whatever you want to call it. Don't you agree?

No, I don't. What evidence do you have that they are unhappy? Especially the way modern zoos are kept today. If anything, certainly compared to their wild counterparts, they live a carefree life of luxury.

I lived next door to a kennels growing up. It was where they housed animals in cages for the Vet hospital about a half mile away. Now this was in the sixties and early seventies where they didn't give a crap about "animal conditions".

I was probably about 8 years old when I started helping out with the up keep. It was keep by a family that lived in a house and the kennels were in back. They probably housed maybe twenty dogs at any given time. One of their kids was my age and my best friend at the time. We both loved taking care of the various breeds of dogs. I would venture to say that their cage was about 10 feet square so they could walk around a bit.

It's hard to describe the area but it was also an area where we kids could hang out and play. Now, if we were playing and ignoring the dogs they just laid there and slept -- just like my dogs do when I'm away or in the house. When we would get their attention, either to feed them or play with them, they would immediately snap to attention, tail wagging, with that eager doggy smile expression. Just like my dogs at home do.

Never ever did I ever get the impression that they were in anyway sad or depressed.

In my neighborhood there is a family that raises Pit Bulls. I think they keep them in horrible conditions. They keep them in cages which must be five feet square. They can barely walk around. Whenever I see them they're just sleeping. If they notice me they immediately jump to attention and start barking wildly. When their owner comes out they wag their tail and look happy and eager. No doubt because one of the few times the owner pays attention to them is to feed them so they associate him with something positive.

Do you really think the Pit Bulls are thinking, "You know, this blows. Look at this place. I can hardly move. I'd so like to bite the shit out of that mofo that occasionally snoops around here but I'm locked up in this fucking cage."

It's fed, it sleeps all day like all dogs do. It's physically comfortable. It's not thinking about what else it would like to do.  

In essence, they are really too dumb to realize how miserable they should be.

Compared to modern day pets, which lives a carefree, comfortable life; an animal at the zoo is living the dream. When was the last time you went to a zoo? Compare that with how they live in the wild.

An animal at a zoo dies of old age. There's no such thing in nature. Once you slow down you're a walking target and will be killed.

[FitnessFrenzy]

No, I don't. What evidence do you have that they are unhappy? Especially the way modern zoos are kept today. If anything, certainly compared to their wild counterparts, they live a carefree life of luxury.

I lived next door to a kennels growing up. It was where they housed animals in cages for the Vet hospital about a half mile away. Now this was in the sixties and early seventies where they didn't give a crap about "animal conditions".

I was probably about 8 years old when I started helping out with the up keep. It was keep by a family that lived in a house and the kennels were in back. They probably housed maybe twenty dogs at any given time. One of their kids was my age and my best friend at the time. We both loved taking care of the various breeds of dogs. I would venture to say that their cage was about 10 feet square so they could walk around a bit.

It's hard to describe the area but it was also an area where we kids could hang out and play. Now, if we were playing and ignoring the dogs they just laid there and slept -- just like my dogs do when I'm away or in the house. When we would get their attention, either to feed them or play with them, they would immediately snap to attention, tail wagging, with that eager doggy smile expression. Just like my dogs at home do.

Never ever did I ever get the impression that they were in anyway sad or depressed.

In my neighborhood there is a family that raises Pit Bulls. I think they keep them in horrible conditions. They keep them in cages which must be five feet square. They can barely walk around. Whenever I see them they're just sleeping. If they notice me they immediately jump to attention and start barking wildly. When their owner comes out they wag their tail and look happy and eager. No doubt because one of the few times the owner pays attention to them is to feed them so they associate him with something positive.

Do you really think the Pit Bulls are thinking, "You know, this blows. Look at this place. I can hardly move. I'd so like to bite the shit out of that mofo that occasionally snoops around here but I'm locked up in this fucking cage."

It's fed, it sleeps all day like all dogs do. It's physically comfortable. It's not thinking about what else it would like to do.  

In essence, they are really too dumb to realize how miserable they should be.

Compared to modern day pets, which lives a carefree, comfortable life; an animal at the zoo is living the dream. When was the last time you went to a zoo? Compare that with how they live in the wild.

An animal at a zoo dies of old age. There's no such thing in nature. Once you slow down you're a walking target and will be killed.

[pellius]

and pellius, here is a scientific article about possible depression in animals:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leslie_Meltzer/publication/6223216_High-speed_imaging_reveals_neurophysiological_links_to_behavior_in_an_animal_model_of_depression/links/00b4953c6617cf36be000000.pdf

"Possible"

But I didn't read it thoroughly because it's a high level scientific article and beyond me. All this "imagining" suggest....

Yeah, OK. Now what?

There was a study done suggesting that dogs believe in an after life. That the reason breeding is such an imperative, a "moral" imperative, is that animals hae some grasp of immortality.

Again, as our society becomes more secular and we continue to diminish human nature (we're just like animals) and elevate the nature of animals (a study was done where 55% of those surveyed believed that animals should have the same basic rights as humans -- talk about cognitive dissonance!) there soon will be time when our culture will make a moral equivalence between humans and animals. In the future our culture will be looked upon as cruel because we enslaved dogs and kept them on a leash and referred to ourselves as their "owners".  

[da_vinci]

"Feelings of humans are literally the same as in all other animals"

What? You strike me as a very intelligent guy but how can you say something like this? A mouse (which is most used in experiments transferable to humans) has the same feelings as you and me? Does it feel love for the various female mice it humps every chance it gets. Does it worry about the future of it's offspring and hopes he raise them with the right values? Does a male lion feel a bit of remorse when it kills the cubs, watching it cringe in fear and pain, of other lions because it threatens his gene pool? Does a mongoose wonder how it's son it doing and is he living a happy and productive life. Does he he feel sadness because his offspring never keeps in contact anymore. When I took a puppy from a litter I don't remember the mom giving a crap and there didn't seem to be any evidence that it wonder why all it's children were taken away and gone? If you're a caribou and you hurt your leg and walk with a limp nobody in the herd is going to look after you, protect you -- they abandon you as you just attract predators. You either keep up or die. Nobody feels guilty.

This is what happens as our society has gotten more secular. Humans are just another animal. We don't have souls. You can't rise above our animal nature. Does an animal ever contemplate the moral implications of it's behavior? Almost a year ago a woman who lived alone and was a shut in and had no family or friends died. Nobody notice until after almost three weeks because of the smell. They found her carcass rotting as her cats were feeding on her. The cats she loved and cared for all their lives. What do you think was going on in the mind of the first cat that decided to take a bite? Nothing. The cat was starving and there was dead meat right there for the taking. No rationalization where it's "Sorry mom but no use all of us die".

Animal act solely of instinct not feelings.

I still think you are going a lil bit too deep into this. Humans, just like other animals, share the same brain pathways that evovlved over the millions of years. Each feeling that we have was selected with a PURPOSE. Feeling joy, feeling sadness, feeling remorse - each of these emotions have a place in survival game. We as humans have minds that are more complex, so our emotions/feelings are more complex, but everything still boild down to survival. You won't see a "depressed" human being who has all his ducks in a row, a balance in life (survival), that simply does not happen. Now if the survival is at stake (some important fields of life doesn't happen like one would like to) - the negative emotions imform us about it (to force us to do something). SOmetimes these emotions become so abunadant and overhelming that an individual starts to loose it, the motivation to change something dssapears completely, that just reinforces the overall "sad" state, here you go - a depression, a great source of income for pharmateutical companies, great source of income for shrimps (sp?), it's better to keep such a human being alive, even if in a vegetative state, and keep taking benefit of his weaknessess.
 We can't get into head of animals to precisely "know" what they feel, but you can certainly see when an animal feels weak and scared, sad, from all his posture, eyes, behaviour, it's actually pretty similar to how severly depressed humans look..

[pellius]

I'm not going to watch the twenty minute vid but about the Panda --  oh brother.

When I scold my dog and smack it on the head it looks sad. It sulks awayand lies in the corner and has a sad look on it's face. After a while, say a few hours, I will approach my dog maybe about ten feet away. It kinda of just looks at me with a sad expression. When I tell him it's OK and to come to me the change is immediately. Back with the doggie smile, the tail wagging, jumping up and down.   

When my dog lost it's companion I did notice a change in it's behavior. It seemed confused and sad. Something that was there was now gone. It got over it.

Animals get sad. They don't get depressed. The don't contemplate life, it's meaning, their role and what the future holds. Contemplating one's future and life's meaning is a necessary factor when talking about depression. They don't think in terms of having a bleak future and hopelessness.

And these are dogs. One of the more intelligent members of the animal kingdoms. I've had pet rats, rabbits and chicken and to say there is any kind of emotional interaction, let alone the claim that we have the same feelings is preposterous.

[Yamcha]

I'm not going to watch the twenty minute vid but about the Panda --  oh brother.

When I scold my dog and smack it on the head it looks sad. It sulks awayand lies in the corner and has a sad look on it's face. After a while, say a few hours, I will approach my dog maybe about ten feet away. It kinda of just looks at me with a sad expression. When I tell him it's OK and to come to me the change is immediately. Back with the doggie smile, the tail wagging, jumping up and down.   

When my dog lost it's companion I did notice a change in it's behavior. It seemed confused and sad. Something that was there was now gone. It got over it.

Animals get sad. They don't get depressed. The don't contemplate life, it's meaning, their role and what the future holds. Contemplating one's future and life's meaning is a necessary factor when talking about depression. They don't think in terms of having a bleak future and hopelessness.

And these are dogs. One of the more intelligent members of the animal kingdoms. I've had pet rats, rabbits and chicken and to say there is any kind of emotional interaction, let alone the claim that we have the same feelings is preposterous.

Please don't "smack" your dog Pellius.

[da_vinci]

Animals get sad. They don't get depressed. The don't contemplate life, it's meaning, their role and what the future holds. Contemplating one's future and life's meaning is a necessary factor when talking about depression. They don't think in terms of having a bleak future and hopelessness.

I've been contemplating life from a very young age, and I have pretty much no hope or illusions regarding humanit or life itself, a very very dark outlook of what life is about, but am I depressed? Hell no, I wake up with a smile on my face. Why? Because I managed to arrange my life in a decent way to not worry much about anything and just be able to enjoy this short adventure while I can. Contemplating lifes meaning and future is usualy a natural manifestation of being depressed (if that contemplation did not happen before). Individual simply tries to search for a "reason" to keep it going, to not give up, and feels like life is unfair, like it's shit, like "why bother", etc... A non depressed individuals often think the same, but being depressed just gives a darker color to the same outlook. When an individual feels weak/lacks control for a long time, becomes depressed day in, day out, looks back and doesn't see anything good, tries to look forward, but still doesn't see potentially positive outcome, it's usualy when a suicide happens. Pharmateucicals can "numb" that, deceive a person by shor circuiting these natural signaling mechanisms (that we call depression) and make one think that "everythiing is allright", just like alcohol. Give a sad dog some coke - he will suddenly become "happy" and won't care about his real survival conditions as long as the coke will be working.

[pellius]

I still think you are going a lil bit too deep into this. Humans, just like other animals, share the same brain pathways that evovlved over the millions of years. Each feeling that we have was selected with a PURPOSE. Feeling joy, feeling sadness, feeling remorse - each of these emotions have a place in survival game. We as humans have minds that are more complex, so our emotions/feelings are more complex, but everything still boild down to survival. You won't see a "depressed" human being who has all his ducks in a row, a balance in life (survival), that simply does not happen. Now if the survival is at stake (some important fields of life doesn't happen like one would like to) - the negative emotions imform us about it (to force us to do something). SOmetimes these emotions become so abunadant and overhelming that an individual starts to loose it, the motivation to change something dssapears completely, that just reinforces the overall "sad" state, here you go - a depression, a great source of income for pharmateutical companies, great source of income for shrimps (sp?), it's better to keep such a human being alive, even if in a vegetative state, and keep taking benefit of his weaknessess.
 We can't get into head of animals to precisely "know" what they feel, but you can certainly see when an animal feels weak and scared, sad, from all his posture, eyes, behaviour, it's actually pretty similar to how severly depressed humans look..

You don't see failures in life having all their ducks in a row and balanced in life and you don't see extraordinarily accomplished and successful people with all their ducks in a row and balanced in life. You think Arnold is a balance individual? Or better yet, Ronnie Coleman? How about Mother Teresa.

Having all your ducks in a row and being balanced says nothing about your chances or success or goodness.

And that's one of the difference between humans and animals. We don't do things just for survival. More and more families don't reproduce, especially the ones we want to reproduce. Americans are at a negative growth rate even though our population is still increasing. But that is due to immigration and the underclass living off entitlement programs.

Why do we bother to care for the sick and elderly? They take up a disproportionate amount of resources while contributing nothing. They are a burden to our society and diminish our survival by consuming resources better spent.

During the Vietnam war it was a common tactic to wound rather than kill an American soldier. Why? Because you kill a soldier you take one man out of the battle. You wound him and now you burden the other soldiers that have to take care of him. Wounding a soldier was a common tactic to bringing out the others in the open to also be shot.

A wounded soldier is useless and a heavy burden to the others diminishing their chances of survival. It would be much more pragmatic to abandon him depending on the severity of the wound.

So why do we do it? It's because we are not animals. We don't ditch the guy with the limp like herd animals do. People sacrifice human survival all the time. It's not just about living just to be alive as it is with animals.

Every time we drag a wounded soldier in the field and care for him. Even if it means taking two other soldiers out of action just to carry him. Every time we spent tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands, of dollars just to keep a person that is no longer productive alive is how we assert our humanity. How we proclaim that we are not just animals. That we have a heart and we have a soul -- and yes, we are divine. There is more to all this than just this world and just your life.

[pellius]

Please don't "smack" your dog Pellius.

Oh brother. 

There's not much I can do about the rest of society getting pussified but not in my world. My dogs get smacked on the snout and the top of the head and so did all my nieces and nephews.

Me I got belt welts on the back of my leg growing up and I learned to respect authority. I got pull over recently and though the cop was half my age I still call him sir.

And all my dogs, nieces and nephews love me because they know I love them more than anything in the world.

[pellius]

I've been contemplating life from a very young age, and I have pretty much no hope or illusions regarding humanit or life itself, a very very dark outlook of what life is about, but am I depressed? Hell no, I wake up with a smile on my face. Why? Because I managed to arrange my life in a decent way to not worry much about anything and just be able to enjoy this short adventure while I can. Contemplating lifes meaning and future is usualy a natural manifestation of being depressed (if that contemplation did not happen before). Individual simply tries to search for a "reason" to keep it going, to not give up, and feels like life is unfair, like it's shit, like "why bother", etc... A non depressed individuals often think the same, but being depressed just gives a darker color to the same outlook. When an individual feels weak/lacks control for a long time, becomes depressed day in, day out, looks back and doesn't see anything good, tries to look forward, but still doesn't see potentially positive outcome, it's usualy when a suicide happens. Pharmateucicals can "numb" that, deceive a person by shor circuiting these natural signaling mechanisms (that we call depression) and make one think that "everythiing is allright", just like alcohol. Give a sad dog some coke - he will suddenly become "happy" and won't care about his real survival conditions as long as the coke will be working.

Depression comes from unrealistic expectations of what life really is. It's no surprise that people suffer from depression more than at any other time. They were pampered their whole lives and not taught to deal with the natural up and downs of life. They are never taught to be grateful. No matter what they have they always want, or rather feel they should have more.

Look at Harley. I swear, who lives a more fulfilling life than he does on this board?  He doesn't consider himself rich but he owns a bunch of cars that are worth as much as most people's homes. He's able to travel, keep a collection of guns, movie posters and who knows what. He's healthy enough to compete and train in Jiu-Jitsu.

Hires a personal piano teacher. Able to paint and make pretty good portraits. Has a beautiful wife. He wants for nothing. You'd think he'd wake up every morning just full of gratitude that he's been so successful in life.

Yet it's not enough. There's a difference between wanting more and expecting more. He often suffers from depression. Maybe, as someone speculated, that there may be some internal conflict having to defend a lot of rotten people in this world.

[da_vinci]

You don't see failures in life having all their ducks in a row and balanced in life and you don't see extraordinarily accomplished and successful people with all their ducks in a row and balanced in life. You think Arnold is a balance individual? Or better yet, Ronnie Coleman? How about Mother Teresa.

Having all your ducks in a row and being balanced says nothing about your chances or success or goodness.

And that's one of the difference between humans and animals. We don't do things just for survival. More and more families don't reproduce, especially the ones we want to reproduce. Americans are at a negative growth rate even though our population is still increasing. But that is due to immigration and the underclass living off entitlement programs.

Why do we bother to care for the sick and elderly? They take up a disproportionate amount of resources while contributing nothing. They are a burden to our society and diminish our survival by consuming resources better spent.

During the Vietnam war it was a common tactic to wound rather than kill an American soldier. Why? Because you kill a soldier you take one man out of the battle. You wound him and now you burden the other soldiers that have to take care of him. Wounding a soldier was a common tactic to bringing out the others in the open to also be shot.

A wounded soldier is useless and a heavy burden to the others diminishing their chances of survival. It would be much more pragmatic to abandon him depending on the severity of the wound.

So why do we do it? It's because we are not animals. We don't ditch the guy with the limp like herd animals do. People sacrifice human survival all the time. It's not just about living just to be alive as it is with animals.

Every time we drag a wounded soldier in the field and care for him. Even if it means taking two other soldiers out of action just to carry him. Every time we spent tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands, of dollars just to keep a person that is no longer productive alive is how we assert our humanity. How we proclaim that we are not just animals. That we have a heart and we have a soul -- and yes, we are divine. There is more to all this than just this world and just your life.

I can't really find much in a human life that's not tied to survival, directly or indirectly. People doesn't reproduce because they doesn't believe in that "meaning of life"(god) and because they want to live themlselves for as long as possible, not for other people (kids). It's kind of a survival too (but destructive at the same time).

We take care of elderly just because they are the source of income for these who take car of them. If not that reason - most would die in horrible conditions and just very few would be taken care of humans who want to fel "better" about themselves so they take care of others.

And I think our point of views go separate ways at the point where you think that we are "divine" and not animals. I think we are presicesly just animals and nothing else, just a collection of replicators (genes) that work together (as an organism) while trying to survive. These genes that help an organism to survive are selected to exist further, really simple. And I think that pretty much every single action of any human being can be translated to a survival context, one way or another.
 But we can agree that we dissagree, it's all good.

[da_vinci]

Depression comes from unrealistic expectations of what life really is. It's no surprise that people suffer from depression more than at any other time. They were pampered their whole lives and not taught to deal with the natural up and downs of life. They are never taught to be grateful. No matter what they have they always want, or rather feel they should have more.

Look at Harley. I swear, who lives a more fulfilling life than he does on this board?  He doesn't consider himself rich but he owns a bunch of cars that are worth as much as most people's homes. He's able to travel, keep a collection of guns, movie posters and who knows what. He's healthy enough to compete and train in Jiu-Jitsu.

Hires a personal piano teacher. Able to paint and make pretty good portraits. Has a beautiful wife. He wants for nothing. You'd think he'd wake up every morning just full of gratitude that he's been so successful in life.

Yet it's not enough. There's a difference between wanting more and expecting more. He often suffers from depression. Maybe, as someone speculated, that there may be some internal conflict having to defend a lot of rotten people in this world.

Maybe there's some more stuff that he's not succesfull at, that bothers him, that he can't control. But overall - I dont see such a person offing himself anytime soon. Thinking about death and life meaning too much can induce temporary sadness, of course, as it's a.. threat to survival. Maybe he feels tension to keep all that stuff, to defend it from potential bad people, maybe he has loans, who knows...