So why doesnt God appear every now and again?

[Man of Steel]

Weird that something so obviously made up has entranced the whole Middle 50% of backward America into thinking he's real enough to bother hating on other religions who believe in different made up Gods. What a world we live in.

Fortunately you've got it all figured out so you can guide the rest of us.

[Parker]

Of course the new testament points to the Messiah. As far as I know only a few passages of Jewish scripture talks about the Messiah, certainly not all of the Old Testament...and when he came they rejected him for the most part and still do today as they feel there religion is complete in and of itself and has no need to be redeemed by Jesus. The Messiah for them will always be in the future. Moses and his Torah are enough for them, plus the Talmud.

A Hindu perspective would be that Jesus was an enlightened being come to lift people out of bondage in to the light of their own awakening, but they would reject the idea that he is the one and only ticket to salvation for all beings of the whole universe for all time. I would tend to agree with that view. Are aliens from other planets going to go to hell because they are not saved by Jesus. I remember a Vatican priest mentioning that if Aliens came to earth he would be glad to baptise them, how ridiculous is that.

http://adriandvir.tripod.com/indexgod.htm

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/vidaalien_alienmind34.htm

http://io9.com/5921472/would-people-still-believe-in-god-after-we-made-contact-with-aliens

https://www.alien-ufos.com/showthread.php?t=26429

http://www.alienresistance.org/ufo-alien-deception/deceptive-extraterrestrial-messages/

[SF1900]

Fortunately you've got it all figured out so you can guide the rest of us.

Lol pot meet kettle. It's sort of ironic for you to say that, considering you act the same exact way, i.e., I have it all figured out, God is 100% real, let me all guide you toward Christ.

You're the same exact way, except with religion.

[Man of Steel]

Correct which is why we abide by God's objective, perfect standards as opposed to our own subjective, imperfect standards.  We measure one another according to God.

As a believer I'm going to be insulted and beaten down and ridiculed, but that's ok with me because my hope rests firmly in Jesus Christ.  I desire to spread that hope to others, but if that is spit back in my face that's ok....that will happen today, tomorrow and for the rest of my life.  But when those that don't know Christ come to him and desire to know his reality then it's all worth it.  

My call from Jesus Christ is to spread his gospel and live out my faith....I simply plant seeds for his kingdom.  Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 2 years or maybe in 25 years you'll feel differently and seek his will for your life (or maybe you won't...that's your choice), but it's never about MOS (I am meaningless).....it's about bringing glory to Christ Jesus.

I appreciate that.  I don't always have good answers (or sometimes any answer), but I consider it a privilege to stand for Jesus Christ.

[bigmc]

mos seems to be having some kind of breakdown

hes one step away from shouting on the streets about fire and brimstone

not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved

bit harsh

[SF1900]

mos seems to be having some kind of breakdown

hes one step away from shouting on the streets about fire and brimstone

not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved

bit harsh

That is actually Christian love disguised as hate. You see, MOS and God love you so much, that they are threatening you with a lifetime of torture in Hell, all because they love you. They love you so much, that they want to threaten and frighten you with torture.

Its really a confusing mess.

 

[Man of Steel]

mos seems to be having some kind of breakdown

hes one step away from shouting on the streets about fire and brimstone

not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved

bit harsh

Yep between mid-2010 and this post I'm gonna breakdown.....at any moment LOL.

"not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved"......that's one of the most loving things someone can tell another.  To warn folks of impending danger and be ridiculed for it and yet continue to warn them out of love despite replies of hate and mocking laughter.

But to not speak would be terrible.  Like knowing there's a fire on the first floor of a building and having the ability to warn others on the floors above and have the knowledge to help get them out before the building collapes and the fire consumes them.  To say nothing would be evil and twisted....to just let folks die when there's a way out. 

[Agnostic007]

However God haters choose to phrase or rephrase their situation is fine....it doesn't change the reality of scripture. 

You're never going to state, "yep MOS, you're right".  It's within your quiet personal moments of reflection that this truth will be acknowledged....certainl y still suppressed tooth and nail, but acknowledged nonetheless.  Publically that will never be disclosed unless you have a change of heart....some do, most don't.  Jesus Christ calls men to repentance.  I'm here to spread the gospel as believers have been called.

Do you call adults "Santa Haters".. just wondering

[BigRo]

Yep between mid-2010 and this post I'm gonna breakdown.....at any moment LOL.

"not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved"......that's one of the most loving things someone can tell another.  To warn folks of impending danger and be ridiculed for it and yet continue to warn them out of love despite replies of hate and mocking laughter.

But to not speak would be terrible.  Like knowing there's a fire on the first floor of a building and having the ability to warn others on the floors above and have the knowledge to help get them out before the building collapes and the fire consumes them.  To say nothing would be evil and twisted....to just let folks die when there's a way out. 

If someone has never heard of Jesus Christ do they escape hell?  If so then the compassion of missionaries bringing Jesus to the four corners of the earth is really something...

[Man of Steel]

Do you call adults "Santa Haters".. just wondering

What's wrong with the term "God Hater"?  

Is it universally applied?  Of course not.  If you simply have no belief in God and leave it at that I wouldn't apply it to that person.  

Although, that's not the behavior of most atheists (hard or soft).  Most are highly entertained with the ridicule and mockery of God lovers, yet when called out on it the tune changes.  

Why is when atheists are called out on their mockery and ridicule they suddenly become pious protectors of all knowledge and the common good?

I love the comparison between Santa and God; although, you could swap Santa for the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Great Pumpkin, etc...  The simple logic being both are make believe and since believers don't believe in Santa then they must be "Santa Haters"!!  

After all that's all atheists are - those that have no belief in God or gods and you can't hate what doesn't exist.  

Yet believers don't spend hour after hour, thread after thread, year after year arguing about Santa Claus or insulting folks that do believe.  

Just own the title because it's exactly what the vast majority of atheists represent and demonstrate over and over and over.  

[/youtube]

There is a SMALL percentage of atheists that genuinely don't hate God, don't hate Christians and simply have no belief.  I know one personally.  I've listened to a couple of them speak.  They are out there, but they are an extreme minority.

If someone says "I don't hate God, I hate the church" or "I don't hate God, I hate Christians" or "I don't hate God, I hate Jesus Christ" or "I don't hate God, I hate religion" or "I don't hate God, I just hate you MOS".....it's all one and the same in hatred.  Christ himself said the world hates you because they hated him first.  And it goes both ways, if you hate those that represent Christ then you hate Christ because we are an extension of him.

John 15:18-25
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

[Man of Steel]

If someone has never heard of Jesus Christ do they escape hell?  If so then the compassion of missionaries bringing Jesus to the four corners of the earth is really something...

This is a big question.  First, I must offer that scripture is not completely clear on this issue in that it is not laid out in one book, chapter or passage of scripture.

Further, this question often focuses directly or indirectly on 5 categories of people: 

-   those of the old testament that came before Christ
-   those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ
-   those born into cultures with non-Christian religions/faiths
-   children and babies
-   mentally handicapped individuals

The first category concerns those folks of OT that never new Christ.    If Christ is the “way, truth and life” and only through him is salvation attained how can OT believers in God attain salvation?   As it states in scripture, Abraham believed in God and to him was credited righteousness…..it was Abraham’s faith that was key despite Mosaic law not yet being given to man.    The Israelites given Mosaic law atoned for their sins and were aligned with God via the sacrifice of the prime specimens of their herds and flocks.  The blood atonement acted as a temporary covering for sin until Christ came and provided the ultimate sacrifice on calvary’s cross that paid the debt for all sins past, present and future.

The second and third category concerns those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ and those born into cultures raised in non-Christian religions/faiths .  Here we look to the primary traits of God in love, grace, justice and mercy.   This is not an exhaustive list of God’s traits, but those most often associated with him.   It’s within God’s justice that we find the word “just”.   God’s justice is grounded in him being just in that he will always do what is good and correct.   It was the apostle Paul that said all people instinctively know of God’s existence through his creation and that people that don’t know God instinctively know his law as their consciences and thoughts accuse them of wrong  doing or tell them they are doing right.  Given that God is a just God he will judge those persons that have never heard the gospel according to what has been revealed to them and according to how righteously they lived.  In this instance I must trust in the righteous justice of God since he has revealed he has already revealed his love, grace and mercy to me. 

The fourth and fifth categories concern children and the mentally handicapped.  I group them together given their inherent innocence.   When I read about King David’s child with Bathsheba passing away and David suggesting that as a believer he would he see his child again in God’s kingdom it affirmed for me the innocence of children and others with disabilities that prevent them from making an honest choice about sin and Christ in their lives.  They don’t need salvation because being saved by grace through Christ means we are saved from the wrath/judgment of God.  The innocents need not fear God’s wrath for they are without blame or need for judgment.   “Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. Then he said, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.  So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.’”  Christ also indicated how severely those that cause the children (the little ones) to fall into sin would be judged.  The children are lead into sin and out of innocence.   Further, the primary attributes of God (justice, love, grace and mercy) don’t jive together if the innocents are separated eternally from him after their death.    As believers in Christ we are saved by grace through faith and thereby justified and deemed righteous….like the innocents who are inherently righteous we become like the them through Christ.

I should note that this is why outreach and missionary work is so crucial in today's churches.  What's the point of believing in Christ if believers sit idle and not share his good news?

Again, this isn’t an exhaustive reply, but here it is for what it’s worth.

[Necrosis]

This is a big question.  First, I must offer that scripture is not completely clear on this issue in that it is not laid out in one book, chapter or passage of scripture.

Further, this question often focuses directly or indirectly on 5 categories of people: 

-   those of the old testament that came before Christ
-   those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ
-   those born into cultures with non-Christian religions/faiths
-   children and babies
-   mentally handicapped individuals

The first category concerns those folks of OT that never new Christ.    If Christ is the “way, truth and life” and only through him is salvation attained how can OT believers in God attain salvation?   As it states in scripture, Abraham believed in God and to him was credited righteousness…..it was Abraham’s faith that was key despite Mosaic law not yet being given to man.    The Israelites given Mosaic law atoned for their sins and were aligned with God via the sacrifice of the prime specimens of their herds and flocks.  The blood atonement acted as a temporary covering for sin until Christ came and provided the ultimate sacrifice on calvary’s cross that paid the debt for all sins past, present and future.

The second and third category concerns those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ and those born into cultures raised in non-Christian religions/faiths .  Here we look to the primary traits of God in love, grace, justice and mercy.   This is not an exhaustive list of God’s traits, but those most often associated with him.   It’s within God’s justice that we find the word “just”.   God’s justice is grounded in him being just in that he will always do what is good and correct.   It was the apostle Paul that said all people instinctively know of God’s existence through his creation and that people that don’t know God instinctively know his law as their consciences and thoughts accuse them of wrong  doing or tell them they are doing right.  Given that God is a just God he will judge those persons that have never heard the gospel according to what has been revealed to them and according to how righteously they lived.  In this instance I must trust in the righteous justice of God since he has revealed he has already revealed his love, grace and mercy to me. 

The fourth and fifth categories concern children and the mentally handicapped.  I group them together given their inherent innocence.   When I read about King David’s child with Bathsheba passing away and David suggesting that as a believer he would he see his child again in God’s kingdom it affirmed for me the innocence of children and others with disabilities that prevent them from making an honest choice about sin and Christ in their lives.  They don’t need salvation because being saved by grace through Christ means we are saved from the wrath/judgment of God.  The innocents need not fear God’s wrath for they are without blame or need for judgment.   “Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. Then he said, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.  So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.’”  Christ also indicated how severely those that cause the children (the little ones) to fall into sin would be judged.  The children are lead into sin and out of innocence.   Further, the primary attributes of God (justice, love, grace and mercy) don’t jive together if the innocents are separated eternally from him after their death.    As believers in Christ we are saved by grace through faith and thereby justified and deemed righteous….like the innocents who are inherently righteous we become like the them through Christ.

I should note that this is why outreach and missionary work is so crucial in today's churches.  What's the point of believing in Christ if believers sit idle and not share his good news?

Again, this isn’t an exhaustive reply, but here it is for what it’s worth.

Dude, humans ahve been here for at least 100k years, At the very least, god sits, for 98k years, as death, rape, most animals go extinct he watches, does nothing, then he says after a while, you know what this is no good, let me send myself as a sacrifice to myself to clean this up.

all those people born before christ came, are dead, neandethals? are they in heaven?

[Man of Steel]

Dude, humans ahve been here for at least 100k years, At the very least, god sits, for 98k years, as death, rape, most animals go extinct he watches, does nothing, then he says after a while, you know what this is no good, let me send myself as a sacrifice to myself to clean this up.

all those people born before christ came, are dead, neandethals? are they in heaven?

Are you critical of God because he made us good stewards of this earth and allowed folks to make free choices including the ability to engage in their sin? 

Or are you critical when he passes judgment upon folks that came into the fullness of their sin? 

Which is it "too little" or "too much" of God?

The neanderthal "man" is not a human man (being) and therefore not created in the image of God and not subject to the his laws.  There are some animals that "soulish" or part of the "nephesh" animals as stated in the Hebrew, but not subject to transgressions of sin because the concept is beyond their comprehension...they are outside that scope.

[BigRo]

This is a big question.  First, I must offer that scripture is not completely clear on this issue in that it is not laid out in one book, chapter or passage of scripture.

Further, this question often focuses directly or indirectly on 5 categories of people: 

-   those of the old testament that came before Christ
-   those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ
-   those born into cultures with non-Christian religions/faiths
-   children and babies
-   mentally handicapped individuals

The first category concerns those folks of OT that never new Christ.    If Christ is the “way, truth and life” and only through him is salvation attained how can OT believers in God attain salvation?   As it states in scripture, Abraham believed in God and to him was credited righteousness…..it was Abraham’s faith that was key despite Mosaic law not yet being given to man.    The Israelites given Mosaic law atoned for their sins and were aligned with God via the sacrifice of the prime specimens of their herds and flocks.  The blood atonement acted as a temporary covering for sin until Christ came and provided the ultimate sacrifice on calvary’s cross that paid the debt for all sins past, present and future.

The second and third category concerns those in general that have never heard the gospel of Christ and those born into cultures raised in non-Christian religions/faiths .  Here we look to the primary traits of God in love, grace, justice and mercy.   This is not an exhaustive list of God’s traits, but those most often associated with him.   It’s within God’s justice that we find the word “just”.   God’s justice is grounded in him being just in that he will always do what is good and correct.   It was the apostle Paul that said all people instinctively know of God’s existence through his creation and that people that don’t know God instinctively know his law as their consciences and thoughts accuse them of wrong  doing or tell them they are doing right.  Given that God is a just God he will judge those persons that have never heard the gospel according to what has been revealed to them and according to how righteously they lived.  In this instance I must trust in the righteous justice of God since he has revealed he has already revealed his love, grace and mercy to me. 

The fourth and fifth categories concern children and the mentally handicapped.  I group them together given their inherent innocence.   When I read about King David’s child with Bathsheba passing away and David suggesting that as a believer he would he see his child again in God’s kingdom it affirmed for me the innocence of children and others with disabilities that prevent them from making an honest choice about sin and Christ in their lives.  They don’t need salvation because being saved by grace through Christ means we are saved from the wrath/judgment of God.  The innocents need not fear God’s wrath for they are without blame or need for judgment.   “Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. Then he said, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.  So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.’”  Christ also indicated how severely those that cause the children (the little ones) to fall into sin would be judged.  The children are lead into sin and out of innocence.   Further, the primary attributes of God (justice, love, grace and mercy) don’t jive together if the innocents are separated eternally from him after their death.    As believers in Christ we are saved by grace through faith and thereby justified and deemed righteous….like the innocents who are inherently righteous we become like the them through Christ.

I should note that this is why outreach and missionary work is so crucial in today's churches.  What's the point of believing in Christ if believers sit idle and not share his good news?

Again, this isn’t an exhaustive reply, but here it is for what it’s worth.

So if they live good lives in tune with the God that permeates all creation, then they can escape hell, so what need is there to bring the "good news" to them then?

[BigRo]

Are you critical of God because he made us good stewards of this earth and allowed folks to make free choices including the ability to engage in their sin? 

Or are you critical when he passes judgment upon folks that came into the fullness of their sin? 

Which is it "too little" or "too much" of God?

The neanderthal "man" is not a human man (being) and therefore not created in the image of God and not subject to the his laws.  There are some animals that "soulish" or part of the "nephesh" animals as stated in the Hebrew, but not subject to transgressions of sin because the concept is beyond their comprehension...they are outside that scope.

Homosapiens have been around for 200,000 years or so.

[Man of Steel]

Defending the arsonist would be evil and twisted. Telling those he sent into the building that the only way out is to acquiesce to his demands or perish in the flames that he fanned for them, would be evil and twisted. To deny that this is what you are doing would be a willing immolation of your own integrity.

As I've stated repeatedly the God Hater trades evil for good and good for evil.....it's a backwards approach and a denial of accountability.

God didn't force anyone to break his laws.  They did that all on their own.  God only gives a way to be freed from sin and forgiven for our transgressions.  But you contort that to you own end and present God as a sadist twisting his greasy moustache while cackling and saying "Do this or burn MUAH HAH HAH!!!  I WANT YOU TO BURN!!!"

When the exact opposite is presented in scripture and by believers.   But, traveling right back to square one, folks hate sin and do not want to be held accountable for it.  So they eliminate sin from the equation and replace their own sin with "God's demands" and capricious demands at that.  

God is fire insurance, the fire department, the NYFD.

[Man of Steel]

So if they live good lives in tune with the God that permeates all creation, then they can escape hell, so what need is there to bring the "good news" to them then?

This is a point that gets murky because essentially I'm being asked to play the role of God as it pertains to his divine judgment and I simply can't do that.

Although, based upon what you said I would agree with it, but spreading the good news would be for the neighbor that has not heard of Christ either and lived in the opposite manner.....best way I can put it. 

[bigmc]

Yep between mid-2010 and this post I'm gonna breakdown.....at any moment LOL.

"not very christian to say that only people that believe will be saved"......that's one of the most loving things someone can tell another.  To warn folks of impending danger and be ridiculed for it and yet continue to warn them out of love despite replies of hate and mocking laughter.

But to not speak would be terrible.  Like knowing there's a fire on the first floor of a building and having the ability to warn others on the floors above and have the knowledge to help get them out before the building collapes and the fire consumes them.  To say nothing would be evil and twisted....to just let folks die when there's a way out. 

if jesus has no capacity for sin or evil

then surely the evil deed of sending humans to hell for eternity

is something that would be abhorrent to him

the ultimate act of evil

perpetuated by the ultimate agent of good

if you cant see the idiocy of that concept then you are blind

[SF1900]

In your analogy, the building is burning and those inside are oblivious to the impeding inferno. The denial of accountability comes when you refuse to acknowledge who started the fire and why. It is you doing the contorting by suggesting that god didn't force anyone to break his laws - yet he wrote the laws and set the penalty for disobeying them. You claim you wish to spare them this punishment, but hold them accountable for breaking the laws that they had no awareness of, rather than condemn the one who built the bonfire. You are a masochist defending a sadist.

As for the second part of your post, It makes no sense. People cannot hate sin if they are, as you say, unaware of it; not only can't they hate it, but they cannot "replace it with god’s demands" either, as it is god’s demands, or "laws", as you put it, which created the sin in the first place. We have already engaged in a parsing of scripture earlier in this thread, so for you to say that the exact opposite of God's sadism is present there, is testament to the dark depths of your delusion. You have already defended his right to wipe out unbelievers, to sacrifice animals and to kill children:

 "God takes kids lives for many reasons which are both righteous and just.  I couldn't begin to understand them all."

And given that you stated that God held the Israelites to a higher standard than everyone else, and ordered them to kill each other if they didn't meet those standards -  until Jesus came along to change that, then i would say that "capricious" would be the most accurate definition of his demands.

And this is exactly how religion poisons ones mind. MOS is totally okay with the death of children.

Again, if people reading this thread cannot see how religion has polluted his mind, then you are as blind as he is.

Yes, it is righteous and just to make a kid suffer with cancer for 2 years before dying. If a child is tortured and murdered, MOS is okay with this because its Gods will. Its righteous and just.

I swear, how can anyone not see that religion is not a morally just system. Geez, it pollutes your mind.

[Man of Steel]

In your analogy, the building is burning and those inside are oblivious to the impeding inferno. The denial of accountability comes when you refuse to acknowledge who started the fire and why. It is you doing the contorting by suggesting that god didn't force anyone to break his laws - yet he wrote the laws and set the penalty for disobeying them. You claim you wish to spare them this punishment, but hold them accountable for breaking the laws that they had no awareness of, rather than condemn the one who built the bonfire. You are a masochist defending a sadist.

As for the second part of your post, It makes no sense. People cannot hate sin if they are, as you say, unaware of it; not only can't they hate it, but they cannot "replace it with god’s demands" either, as it is god’s demands, or "laws", as you put it, which created the sin in the first place. We have already engaged in a parsing of scripture earlier in this thread, so for you to say that the exact opposite of God's sadism is present there, is testament to the dark depths of your delusion. You have already defended his right to wipe out unbelievers, to sacrifice animals and to kill children:

 "God takes kids lives for many reasons which are both righteous and just.  I couldn't begin to understand them all."

And given that you stated that God held the Israelites to a higher standard than everyone else, and ordered them to kill each other if they didn't meet those standards -  until Jesus came along to change that, then i would say that "capricious" would be the most accurate definition of his demands.

When I first read your reply I was admittedly confused by it, but I then I understood how you could draw out of it what you did.  

My burning building example wasn't an analogy or metaphor for something else.  The building doesn't represent "x" and God doesn't represent "y" and the fire doesn't represent "z".  It was just an example of something bad happening to someone and someone else with the ability to help standing by and doing nothing but letting it happen and how terrible that is.  You've read a lot more into the example that simply wasn't intended, but I understand your interpretation.  I don't know who started the fire.  I don't know if anyone started the fire.  I don't know why the fire started.  There was just a fire.  You could change the example to a tornado or financial disaster or a freak billiards accident.

Now again, God didn't force you or anyone to break his laws.  People made choices...that simple.  And God's moral law is written upon everyone's hearts....they already know it and act upon it whether they suppress God as the source or not.

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them

No, I defend his passing judgment upon the evil and reprobate.  

Why do you casually ignore the evil of these folks?  Why do you defend/ignore their evil?  

Well, the answer is easy.  If you ignore their evil acts it it makes your argument stick a bit better.  The way you portray the situation is completely flawed and deceptive.  God didn't randomly eliminate a bunch of sweet old grandparents working their flower gardens and dancing with their grandchildren.  No, he passed judgment upon the reprobate and fully evil.  Generation after generation of folks lead by the former evil generation into partaking in despicable acts separating them from God.  God comes in and eliminates the evil pagan folks and takes their small children with him to his heaven so that they can exist with him and be free from the twisted evil of their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc....and not be left alone to fend for themselves.  He showed them grace, mercy and love.

But here's the rub, you acknowledge God passing judgment (but only in the form of outright murder with no cause), but ignore the abhorrent evil of the folks judgment was passed upon and then deny any afterlife with God for the children he took to be with him.  You focus on God's actions (which you portray as murder with no cause) and the finality of death with no afterlife...it's smoke and mirrors.

You both understand and don't understand at the same time.   God's laws for the Israelites were designed so that they would be his holy and righteous representatives and these laws were in place for centuries, but you can call that "capricious" if you want.....you'll define it however best makes your argument so it really doesn't matter (and SF will be right there with his pom poms to cheer you on).

[Necrosis]

You can't hide behind god brah, you are claiming that you have the answers to all, where we came from, whywe are here, what happens when you die, you have all the answers!!

[Man of Steel]

You can't hide behind god brah, you are claiming that you have the answers to all, where we came from, whywe are here, what happens when you die, you have all the answers!!

No, I don't have all the answers and I'm clearly not hiding behind God....I'm waaaaay out in the open.  God is simply the source I trust in...and this confidence in God infuriates some.  I make ZERO apologies.

And yes I do know where we came from and why we are here, but I don't know exactly what happens when we die....I just know where we end up.  But here's the thing....you know too so chin up!

[Necrosis]

In your analogy, the building is burning and those inside are oblivious to the impeding inferno. The denial of accountability comes when you refuse to acknowledge who started the fire and why. It is you doing the contorting by suggesting that god didn't force anyone to break his laws - yet he wrote the laws and set the penalty for disobeying them. You claim you wish to spare them this punishment, but hold them accountable for breaking the laws that they had no awareness of, rather than condemn the one who built the bonfire. You are a masochist defending a sadist.


We have a winner, god creates us sick and forces us to be well under threat of eternal torture, it's obviously fake, obviously man made and obviously for control

As for the second part of your post, It makes no sense. People cannot hate sin if they are, as you say, unaware of it; not only can't they hate it, but they cannot "replace it with god’s demands" either, as it is god’s demands, or "laws", as you put it, which created the sin in the first place. We have already engaged in a parsing of scripture earlier in this thread, so for you to say that the exact opposite of God's sadism is present there, is testament to the dark depths of your delusion. You have already defended his right to wipe out unbelievers, to sacrifice animals and to kill children:

 "God takes kids lives for many reasons which are both righteous and just.  I couldn't begin to understand them all."

And given that you stated that God held the Israelites to a higher standard than everyone else, and ordered them to kill each other if they didn't meet those standards -  until Jesus came along to change that, then i would say that "capricious" would be the most accurate definition of his demands.

Human sacrifice was the only way to get through to people, he sent himself to absolve those of sins they committed based on the rules he set up knowing the future? WTF. it's OBVIOUSLY a lie, anyone who can't see how it's clear as day bullshit are delusional. How could anyone believe in such preposterous ideas?

God wants to change things and completely fucks the message up, unsure of how to reach everyone, he kills himself, not quite himself, not obviously himself  another brilliant move.

The only thing better was if he put made our genitals both a waste processing plant and reproductive organ! that makes perfect fucking sense!

[Necrosis]

No, I don't have all the answers and I'm clearly not hiding behind God....I'm waaaaay out in the open.  God is simply the source I trust in...and this confidence in God infuriates some.  I make ZERO apologies.

And yes I do know where we came from and why we are here, but I don't know exactly what happens when we die....I just know where we end up.  But here's the thing....you know too so chin up!

You know the answers to the biggest questions of humanity, why we are here, where we came form and where we end up. You don't know these things, you HOPE they are true, if you knew, you could easily convert people, demonstrate things and otherwise know things others do not. Since you are a human, same as  me, I KNOW you do not know these things, I am weary of people who claim it so.

It doesn't infuriate me, perhaps some, I honestly could care less, it's a lie, my only concern is trying to save you from wasting your one life, I know it feels good but it can't be true, if the bible is, I am afraid we are already in hell.

[Man of Steel]

You know the answers to the biggest questions of humanity, why we are here, where we came form and where we end up. You don't know these things, you HOPE they are true, if you knew, you could easily convert people, demonstrate things and otherwise know things others do not. Since you are a human, same as  me, I KNOW you do not know these things, I am weary of people who claim it so.

It doesn't infuriate me, perhaps some, I honestly could care less, it's a lie, my only concern is trying to save you from wasting your one life, I know it feels good but it can't be true, if the bible is, I am afraid we are already in hell.

www.biblegateway.com

Read it and do what Christ says...simple.

Then you'll know too!!