Author Topic: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?  (Read 20170 times)

Parker

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2016, 10:02:00 AM »
Most of the world thinks the cadaver look so popular today is disgusting.  Mentzer had enough definition.  Same with Zane, Arnold and others.  
Mentzer didn't have the condition of Zane, Robby, Arnold, Serge. He had that gym rat conditon look him. Abs were somewhat defined, but looked blurry. No real intercostal-serratus definition. Look at that Robby v Mentzer pic.

Raymondo

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2016, 10:28:06 AM »
Mentzer didn't have the condition of Zane, Robby, Arnold, Serge. He had that gym rat conditon look him. Abs were somewhat defined, but looked blurry. No real intercostal-serratus definition. Look at that Robby v Mentzer pic.

Don't move the goal posts now, your post was about Mentzer's arms, specifically his triceps :)

I'd say they look pretty lean in the pics PJim posted. Arnold could only dream of such tris.

PJim

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2016, 10:40:35 AM »
Mentzer didn't have the condition of Zane, Robby, Arnold, Serge. He had that gym rat conditon look him. Abs were somewhat defined, but looked blurry. No real intercostal-serratus definition. Look at that Robby v Mentzer pic.

.

Parker

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2016, 11:15:57 AM »
.
Stand corrected, Arnold still owns him on abs---intercostals/serratus.

Disgusted

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2016, 01:04:56 PM »
Mentzer:"I took 400mg of Deca Durabolin every 10-14 days,....and no more than five Dianabol a day."

Try 2500mgs weekly and 100mg daily of orals.

dj181

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2016, 01:12:44 PM »
Try 2500mgs weekly and 100mg daily of orals.

christ, 2500 mg of deca only or 2500 mg of all injects combined?

deca's top end is 600 mg right? nearly everything i read on it basically says this

mazrim

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2016, 04:15:05 PM »
christ, 2500 mg of deca only or 2500 mg of all injects combined?

deca's top end is 600 mg right? nearly everything i read on it basically says this
That's a small dose in reality to big timers.

mazrim

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2016, 04:18:33 PM »
Try 2500mgs weekly and 100mg daily of orals.
Yep, much closer to this. They used tons of what they had/could back then.


From Casey Viator,

“Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don’t be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today.“


Submissionfytr

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2016, 07:17:18 PM »
Great thread!  I think Mike clearly had the better physique and it's represented by their placing/contest history.  Interestingly I know I've read that when Mike, Ray and Casey Viator trained together that Casey and Ray were both massively stronger on every single exercise.  Might of been an Ellington Darden book or article, but I remember Mike always appearing stronger than Hercules and how crazy it must have been to see his brother Ray (or Casey) load and extra plate or two on the bar after Mike was done for their set...

I always considered Mike's physique ideal, and nearly flawless.  Guys like Yates and then Coleman were comic book like super hero's, while Mike looked "real."  As a young boy, you could aspire or dream of looking close to Mike Mentzer (obviously a childhood fantasy when you learn about genetics and how much goes into building a champion physique) but I never heard any kids in my school say "boy I wish I looked like Ronnie Coleman." I also agree with the one post that noted Mike had almost perfect balance between being in shape and ripped without being a death-like, sucked in, walking corpse (Andreas Munzer).  And Mike's arms, especially his forearms, were perfection to me.


Submissionfytr

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2016, 07:32:53 PM »
Also meant to mention as others noted, how great of a writer he was.  I can't even read the garbage Bob Chick or Peter whoever writes.  It's boring, lame, and never inspired me in the least.  Reading a column or book by Mike Mentzer always was motivating, and thought provoking.  Later when in college when I learned about the scientific methodology and the details of theories and hypotheses, Mentzer's writings seemed more important than I had ever considered.  Once you learn and understand the scientific method and terms like validity and reliability, Mike's writings stood out as being far superior and science based than any of the pure garbage Arnold had always published.  I also found Mike's statement regarding the "science of bodybuilding" having to exist, and even if he was incorrect in his theory, it didn't invalidate that there was a scientifically provable method of best building muscle.

Not that I have anywhere near the knowledge to make a definitive statement, but it's my opinion that Mike would have benefited from better knowledge of drugs and nutrition.  Those were the 2 subjects when he wrote about that were almost dismissive.  I remember him mentioning steroids being important and that he remembers taking "boat loads" but didn't seem to think any exact combination or amount was responsible for obtaining an ideal build.  And his nutrition writings were very simplistic, he used a calorie consumption vs. expenditure explanation in one book where he was basically saying take your caloric needs and add to them to gain mass or subtract to get ripped.  Just an observation that he didn't seem to give nearly any attention to detail regarding nutrition or drugs that he did to training.

SGT BARNES

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2016, 09:23:20 PM »
mentzer wasnt shit. owned into madness by arnold for being a punk.

fredrollon

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2016, 09:36:12 PM »
From Casey Viator,

“Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don’t be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today.“



Assuming that quote is "genuine",growth hormone in the 70's?

dj181

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2016, 03:40:16 AM »
Assuming that quote is "genuine",growth hormone in the 70's?

i don't buy this quote

there's a point of diminishing returns for all roids and 2 and a half grams is way beyond deca's


oldschoolfan

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2016, 04:00:49 AM »
Also meant to mention as others noted, how great of a writer he was.  I can't even read the garbage Bob Chick or Peter whoever writes.  It's boring, lame, and never inspired me in the least.  Reading a column or book by Mike Mentzer always was motivating, and thought provoking.  Later when in college when I learned about the scientific methodology and the details of theories and hypotheses, Mentzer's writings seemed more important than I had ever considered.  Once you learn and understand the scientific method and terms like validity and reliability, Mike's writings stood out as being far superior and science based than any of the pure garbage Arnold had always published.  I also found Mike's statement regarding the "science of bodybuilding" having to exist, and even if he was incorrect in his theory, it didn't invalidate that there was a scientifically provable method of best building muscle.

Not that I have anywhere near the knowledge to make a definitive statement, but it's my opinion that Mike would have benefited from better knowledge of drugs and nutrition.  Those were the 2 subjects when he wrote about that were almost dismissive.  I remember him mentioning steroids being important and that he remembers taking "boat loads" but didn't seem to think any exact combination or amount was responsible for obtaining an ideal build.  And his nutrition writings were very simplistic, he used a calorie consumption vs. expenditure explanation in one book where he was basically saying take your caloric needs and add to them to gain mass or subtract to get ripped.  Just an observation that he didn't seem to give nearly any attention to detail regarding nutrition or drugs that he did to training.


ha funny you should mention that piece of shit bob chic

i remember on this board he said mike was and overated bodybuilder i found this quite comical coming from bob chic

mike accomplished more in his first year as a pro then bob did his whole  career. also mike actually wrote books that people bought

mike had alot of fans, bob has no fans.      just goes to show what a clown bob chic really is , that is why he cant keep a job very long either

no matter where he goes. the sup companies that sign him figure out hes a waste of money

BayGBM

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2016, 04:21:42 AM »
Bay likey Mike Mentzer!  :P

Donny

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2016, 05:13:57 AM »
.
Danny Padilla looked great in the 2nd picture.

illuminati

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2016, 03:09:20 PM »
Mike had the better physique.
Though Ray was very good, and apparently the stronger of the 2.

pellius

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2016, 12:18:49 AM »
Ray did have a more classic physique. Never reached his potential.

Mike had a more unique look. The solid muscle density was awe inspiring. I think he looked his best just standing relaxed. The way those arms just hung there so swollen in reposed was a look no one had in those days. And as someone mentioned, perfectly balanced and proportioned.

Rick Wayne was the best bber writer but, again, Mike was different. Very educated and well read. Not many bbers heard of Nietsche, Ayn Rand or William James until Mentzer.

Also, no one could sport a stache like Mike could. And he came from an era where bodybuilders still managed to keep a full head of hair.


oldschoolfan

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2016, 04:28:56 AM »
Ray did have a more classic physique. Never reached his potential.

Mike had a more unique look. The solid muscle density was awe inspiring. I think he looked his best just standing relaxed. The way those arms just hung there so swollen in reposed was a look no one had in those days. And as someone mentioned, perfectly balanced and proportioned.

Rick Wayne was the best bber writer but, again, Mike was different. Very educated and well read. Not many bbers heard of Nietsche, Ayn Rand or William James until Mentzer.

Also, no one could sport a stache like Mike could. And he came from an era where bodybuilders still managed to keep a full head of hair.




you got that right pellius mike had a great look to him

still dont get how some people on here said he had a wide waist and big gut i dont see that in any of his pics

shame he retired so young.   people also forget  weider liked mike alot he was paying  mike 200k a year back in 1980

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2016, 06:47:57 AM »
Ray:

falco

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2016, 06:55:56 AM »
Ray never knew what to do with his hair.

mazrim

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2016, 07:08:53 AM »
i don't buy this quote

there's a point of diminishing returns for all roids and 2 and a half grams is way beyond deca's


Lol, yeah keep believing that. 600 mg of deca being a high dose. Not even close.

You can believe whatever you want I guess.

Straw Man

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2016, 09:56:03 AM »
Mike died 15 years ago yesterday (June 10, 2001)

If still alive today he would have been 64.

He looked about that old in the last video where he is taking a break from shooting his training video to chain smoke while Ray is complaining he can't get a woman.


Bix

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2016, 11:17:39 AM »
He had average arms. And look at that tricep shot. No real separation. Like looking at a Sergio pic, and we know how Sergio wasn't known for conditioning. Average arms, average build. Both Mike and Ray. The only thing that made Mike famous was his system and his meltdown that was induced by Arnold. And that is what I believe colors your perception. Take that away, and he is just an average decent physique for the time.

Yes anf that is why he got a perfect score more than once ?

dj181

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Re: Who was better? Mike or Ray Mentzer?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2016, 12:30:38 PM »
lol @ Mentzer with average arms  :D :D :D