Author Topic: Trump: the implosion continues  (Read 47172 times)

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2016, 03:37:34 PM »
I'm confused. Are you suggesting he can continue to farm out his manufacturing and Real Estate business, hide his supposed wealth in foreign banks to avoid paying taxes while tightening up the same opportunities he enjoys? If he can pull this off without pissing most of the country off, he's genius.

That's on him.  We'll see how he handles it, if he wins, because I'm sure he will take a non-stop beating over it otherwise. 

Just the fact that he states he wants to fix these issues as a whole, is good enough for me, for now.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2016, 04:19:16 PM »
Trump is the man selling the elixir that cures all disease.  

Uneducated non-minoroties over 30 love the shit

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2016, 06:19:06 PM »
Trump is the man selling the elixir that cures all disease.  

Uneducated non-minoroties over 30 love the shit

I'm willing to gamble, because it's the safest bet.  And if that doesn't say what terrible shape we're in, I really don't know what could.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2016, 07:53:36 PM »
I'm willing to gamble, because it's the safest bet.  And if that doesn't say what terrible shape we're in, I really don't know what could.

nothing 6 coinflips can't fix

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2016, 10:06:23 PM »
That's on him.  We'll see how he handles it, if he wins, because I'm sure he will take a non-stop beating over it otherwise.  

Just the fact that he states he wants to fix these issues as a whole, is good enough for me, for now.

I have property in Florida that's a real bargain. I would give you a great deal on it because you're my buddy. It's beautifully unspoiled.  ;)

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2016, 10:44:12 AM »
I have property in Florida that's a real bargain. I would give you a great deal on it because you're my buddy. It's beautifully unspoiled.  ;)

I'll have it assessed.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2016, 10:50:09 AM »

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2016, 04:30:01 PM »
Trump backer Mark Burns’s painfully bad attempts to defend his inflated resume
by Aaron Blake

Mark Burns's very bad week just got much worse.

Days after the top Trump backer and Republican convention speaker was forced to apologize for tweeting a cartoon of Hillary Clinton in blackface, CNN did some digging into his apparently inflated bio claims.

The televangelist on Friday night admitted to overstating some of his claims on his Facebook page. Then, on Saturday morning, CNN aired this brutal interview with Burns, in which he struggles to explain his readily apparent résumé inflation.

It gets tough to watch at certain points.

Here's a recap:

1. Confronted with an apparently bogus claim that he was a member of the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity, Burns initially says he "started the process" of joining the fraternity. Then he argues that such facts were added to his bio by a hacker. "Obviously this has been manipulated or either hacked or added," Burns says. So a hacker altered his bio and just happened to use the same fraternity that Burns began the process of joining?

2. When asked about the bio's claim that he served six years in the Army Reserve, Burns says he did. When confronted with records that indicate he was actually in the National Guard, Burns says, "It is Reserves. The Army South Carolina National Guard is Reserves." If you want to know the difference between the two, see here.

3. When confronted with his claim to have graduated with a bachelor of science degree from North Greenville University, Burns tries to argue that the interview was and had been off the record.

    BURNS: I asked you just a moment ago, as we opened up this — and first of all, I said we were off the record.

    VICTOR BLACKWELL: I didn't agree to that.

    BURNS: Yeah, but I did. I did.

    BLACKWELL: We're still rolling. I'm still asking you questions on the record.

    BURNS: I'm off the record. I'm off the record, because I think this is not fair that you — this is not fair at all. This is not what I agreed to. I thought we were doing a profile, and all the sudden you're here to try and destroy my character.

Note to any future interview subjects: You are not off the record unless the journalist agrees to it. And if you are on camera and you'd prefer to be off the record, you had better make sure it's not rolling.

4. Asked about his claim to be pursing a master's degree from Andersonville Theological Seminary, where he enrolled in 2008 but hasn't advanced, Burns's explanation shifts. Now standing and swaying, he explains: "Do you know how old this [bio] is? This hasn't been updated — I think there's an updated profile on me that's on the website."

So asked whether the information is simply old or had been tampered with, Burns says: "These are old information. This is extremely, extremely old information."

Then, perhaps predictably, Burns walks away, mid-interview.

He later posted this statement on his Facebook page:

   As a young man starting my church in Greenville, South Carolina, I overstated several details of my biography because I was worried I wouldn’t be taken seriously as a new pastor. This was wrong, I wasn’t truthful then and I have to take full responsibility for my actions. Since that time I should have taken steps to correct any misrepresentations of my background. We all make mistakes, and I hope that the measure of my character and the quality of my works speak for what kind of person I am.

    I do also want to set the record straight about why this attack is happening — because I am a black man supporting Donald Trump for President. For too long, African-American votes have been taken for granted by Democratic politicians, and enough is enough. It’s a shame that the political insiders and the media choose to attack me because I’m not going to stay silent about Hillary Clinton’s pandering to our community. Instead, I’m going to tell people that there is another option — an option that represents a positive vision that will unify our country. That’s why I have and will continue to tirelessly support Mr. Trump.

    -- Pastor Mark Burns


[ Invalid YouTube link ]

 ::)

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2016, 03:20:44 PM »
After convention stumble, Melania Trump has largely vanished from campaign
By Mary Jordan and Stephanie McCrummen

It was late July when voters last heard from the potential first lady of the United States. Melania Trump delivered her speech at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, and then later stood with her husband, balloons dropping, waving to the crowd in what is starting to feel like a premature farewell to the campaign trail.

Since then, she has not spoken publicly and has largely vanished from view, leaving a trail of questions and voids in her personal biography.

It was only Wednesday night — after a seven-week absence — that Melania Trump appeared at a campaign event, sitting in the audience as her husband addressed a national security forum.

Her long silence followed the fiasco over her convention speech, parts of which turned out to have been plagiarized. Then she took her website down after revelations that there was no record she had obtained a college degree, as her site had claimed. And while the issue of illegal immigration is central to her husband’s platform, neither Melania Trump nor the Trump campaign has produced documentation to prove how the Slovenian immigrant got a visa to work in the United States or how she obtained her green card in 2001. Melania Trump has said she has been “at all times in full compliance” with immigration laws; Donald Trump has said his wife is “so documented.”

Even as the campaign declines to fill in details of her life story, Melania Trump has deployed an attorney to beat back news reports probing her past. Last week, the former fashion model filed a libel suit against a blogger and a British newspaper for reports, since retracted, suggesting that she once worked as an escort.

Otherwise, the woman who could oversee a White House staff and command a global platform on behalf of the United States has said almost nothing. A news conference at which her husband promised to address immigration questions has yet to happen. And there is no sign that Melania Trump will play a significant role in the final stretch of her husband’s campaign — a striking departure from tradition in which candidates’ spouses serve as key surrogates in the effort to turn out voters.

The Trump campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment, nor did it respond to specific questions about her past, or her future involvement in the campaign.

In many ways, Melania Trump’s approach to campaigning is in keeping with a paradoxical pattern in her life — one in which she has both sought the spotlight and recoiled from its glare. The 46-year-old has been comfortable with public exposure on her own terms, posing nude at times and once even talking on Howard Stern’s radio show about her sex life with Donald Trump. And yet, as a model and as a political spouse, she has also remained private to the point of reclusiveness.

Her official Twitter account — once a stream of Manhattan sunrises, Dover sole lunches at the Ralph Lauren Polo Club, and Melania lounging on a piano, a beach or a private jet — has become a series of statements pushing back against what is being written about her.

“Not a lot of people know me,” she told The Washington Post in an interview in April. “Only I know my story, and I see people who want to have maybe five, 15 minutes of fame, and they say, ‘Oh, I met her for five minutes.’ . . . I read a lot of stories, and they are not correct stories.”

Several people who have known Melania over the years say she has often been a solitary figure, cultivating few close friendships outside of her immediate family as she moved from the concrete apartment blocks of the former Yugoslavia in the late 1980s to Trump’s gold-leafed penthouse in Manhattan in the late 1990s.

She left Slovenia as communism was crumbling, joining a wave of young Eastern European women headed for Milan and Paris. It was a startling change for many young women who grew up in small and rural areas, according to people who worked in fashion.

“It was like, ‘Wow!’ It was a chance to go out with a guy with a Porsche,” said Vincenzo Di Sarli, an Italian working in the international fashion business. “Many of them got married with these guys.”

Melania, born Melanija Knavs, began calling herself Melania Knauss as she started her modeling career. She kept trying to make a name for herself, albeit with limited success at first, according to people familiar with her career at the time.

Bernarda Jeklin, who ran a Slovenian women’s magazine, met Melania when she was 22 and entered the magazine’s Face of the Year contest. Jeklin said Melania did not stand out in the crowd of so many promising models.

“She was really quite anonymous,” said Jeklin. “She was very, very introverted. She didn’t talk to other competitors. She preferred to be in her own world.”

Melania placed as a runner-up, which helped her get more work when she returned to Milan. For several years, she modeled for catalogues and walked runways in Paris and other European capitals. During that time, she also met a wealthy Italian businessman, Paolo Zampolli, who said he saw enough potential in Melania to invite her to join a modeling agency he was financing in New York. Zampolli said he arranged Melania’s work visa and she said she moved to New York in 1996.

By then, she was 26 and stood out from other recruits, who were typically 18- or 19-year-olds dressed in jeans and T-shirts, according to others who worked at Zampolli’s Metropolitan agency. By contrast, Melania showed up at the agency already polished, always dressed exquisitely and expensively and carrying herself with a certain remove.

Michele August, a former booking agent for Metropolitan, said that Knauss was a “very kind, gentle soul” and was “nothing but professional.” Still, August said, it was difficult to re-book her because she was “kind of icy looking, not approachable.”

“She was sexy, she wasn’t high fashion,” August said. “You didn’t book her for Vogue. She was more commercial lingerie.”

The 1990s nightlife of New York models was full of parties and invitations to nightclub openings where booze, cocaine and wealthy men were plentiful. According to August and others who worked at Metropolitan at the time, Melania was ambitious about making a name for herself but largely stayed away from the party scene. Her roommate from those days said that Melania often just stayed home.

“She would come out in her bathrobe and her glasses and slippers and watch ‘Friends,’ ” said Matthew Atanian, a photographer who shared a Union Square apartment with her in Manhattan. “She kept pretty quiet and to herself,” he added. He also said she talked by phone to her mother and sister in Slovenia every day.

An exception came in 1998, when she attended a Fashion Week event hosted by Zampolli — and met Donald Trump.

The same year, when she was 28, Melania made another leap into the spotlight by holding her own news conference in Paris. Journalists from Slovenia were flown in for free for the day to meet her, according to two of the journalists who made the trip.

The journalists said they had never heard of Melania Knauss before, but Dusan Nograsek, one of the journalists at that meeting, recalls her describing herself as one of the world’s top 50 international models.

“It was very unusual for models to do such a thing,” said Nograsek, who, along with others, wrote about Melania. “She was beautiful, likable, nice, natural. She acted as if she’d be standing on the red carpet in no time.”

At the same time, Melania’s association with Trump was leading to higher-profile assignments, including the January 2000 cover of British GQ, where she famously posed nude on a fur rug in a photo shoot on Trump’s plane. She was in the 2000 swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated, and when she married Trump in 2005, she was photographed wearing a $200,000 gown on the coveted cover of Vogue.

The transition to political wife was clearly not easy.

Earlier this year, Melania Trump had seemed willing to give campaigning a try — and got good reviews. In February, she surprised people when she took the microphone at a primary victory party in South Carolina and told cheering supporters in her accented English that her husband “will be the best president.”

She went on MSNBC and CNN and addressed a crowd in Milwaukee after Donald Trump heralded the “exciting” presence of his wife on the campaign trail, saying, “She’s never done this before.”

At the same time, she seemed reluctant, telling The Post in April, “I am not part of the campaign” and that her 10-year-old son, Barron, was her main priority.

Recently, Melania Trump’s absence has become conspicuous enough to spawn such Twitter hashtags as #WhereisMelania and #FreeMelania as people try to figure out where she was and how she was doing.

On Wednesday night, she finally appeared, sitting in the crowd at the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum in New York as her husband spoke at an NBC forum. Television viewers could only catch glimpses of her as cameras panned across the audience.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2016, 05:50:49 PM »
Lying about college degree, the Q about the possible earlier marriage, working before she had a work visa, stealing a speech from the most hated non-hilary woman on the planet...


Trump's #1 issue being immigration, it's like they went out of their way to be stupid on this one.

BayGBM

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2016, 04:55:49 AM »
If she came here legally (I am all but certain she did not) why not show the documentation to prove it and end the controversy?  What type of visa did she have?  When did she get it?  How could she "work" as a model if she did not have the correct visa type?  She is a liar plain and simple.  In 2016, the first lady should have a college degree.  I don't care how confused you are or what language you speak, you KNOW whether or not you graduated from college.  Melania's website (since taken down) claimed she had a bachelor's degree from University of Ljubljana.  She does not.  

She will forever be associated with the quote, "I wrote it myself... with as little help as possible."   ::)

Pathetic. 

Like children, trophy wives should be seen--and not heard.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2016, 05:49:53 AM »
If she came here legally (I am all but certain she did not) why not show the documentation to prove it and end the controversy?  What type of visa did she have?  When did she get it?  How could she "work" as a model if she did not have the correct visa type?  She is a liar plain and simple.  In 2016, the first lady should have a college degree.  I don't care how confused you are or what language you speak, you KNOW whether or not you graduated from college.  Melania's website (since taken down) claimed she had a bachelor's degree from University of Ljubljana.  She does not.  

She will forever be associated with the quote, "I wrote it myself... with as little help as possible."   ::)

Pathetic. 

Like children, trophy wives should be seen--and not heard.

You'll need to ask Bill Clinton, since he was in charge at the time.

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2016, 06:57:17 AM »

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2016, 09:01:40 AM »
If she came here legally (I am all but certain she did not) why not show the documentation to prove it and end the controversy?  What type of visa did she have?  When did she get it?  How could she "work" as a model if she did not have the correct visa type?  She is a liar plain and simple.  In 2016, the first lady should have a college degree.  I don't care how confused you are or what language you speak, you KNOW whether or not you graduated from college.  Melania's website (since taken down) claimed she had a bachelor's degree from University of Ljubljana.  She does not.  

She will forever be associated with the quote, "I wrote it myself... with as little help as possible."   ::)

Pathetic. 

Like children, trophy wives should be seen--and not heard.

How could Killary be president if she can't remember almost anything, bleach bit classified emails, not know what the "C" stood for in emails. smash blackberry's and other devices with hammers, etc?

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2016, 09:16:02 AM »
How could Killary be president if she can't remember almost anything, bleach bit classified emails, not know what the "C" stood for in emails. smash blackberry's and other devices with hammers, etc?

To be clear - you're telling us Trump is good, or just sticking with "Trump isn't as bad as Hillary"?

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2016, 08:38:48 AM »
After Trump’s reversal, prominent birthers want to move on
By David Weigel

A few hours after Donald Trump's announcement that he had renounced "birtherism," Andy Martin was pleased with how it went.

"He handled it as well as he could," said Martin, a lawyer, writer and frequent candidate who began asking questions about Barack Obama's birth certificate in 2004. "His supporters don't really care about the issue any more, but the Democrats -- did you see the Congressional Black Caucus press conference today? The Democrats are losing their minds. This may be a case where Trump profits off the backlash."

Orly Taitz, a dentist and lawyer who long ago surpassed Martin as the face of birtherism, took a similar position on Trump's reversal. "The media is attacking Trump on the birther issue and many conservatives and my supporters are attacking him from the other side on the same issue," she wrote on her blog. "My word to my supporters: let Trump win the election. There are only 8 weeks left. Now is not the time to talk about Obama, he is not running for president, Clinton is."

All day Friday, Taitz updated her blog as journalists called her and dutifully reported on the pass she was giving the Republican nominee.

With four months to go before President Obama leaves the White House, the movement to prove that he lied about his birth -- by hiding his true paternity, by posing as a foreign student to get into college -- had already petered out. Philip J. Berg, a Pennsylvania attorney who filed the first high-profile suits against Obama, quit his law practice to avoid being disbarred. Wiley Drake, a California pastor who amplified the coverage of the lawsuits, was focused on his fringe candidacy for president. Larry Klayman, the legal gadfly who had filed petitions for the president to be deported, was focused on uncovering the "truth" about Hillary Clinton's health. Jerome Corsi, the author of "Where's the Birth Certificate?," gruffly told a radio interviewer that he was "not getting into it" and "not weighing in."

Trump's fitful five-year quest to prove that something was amiss with the president's citizenship, something he admitted he was doing to curry conservative favor, ended with no apparent backlash from the right or the fringes. Breitbart, the conservative site that gave Trump's campaign its current CEO, covered Trump's Friday press conference with a gleeful story about the media getting played. (For several hours, the story was illustrated with an unexplained photo of a gorilla.)

Four years earlier, in its Obama series titled "The Vetting," Breitbart had uncovered an old publisher's note that described a young author, Barack Obama, as "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia." The site's editors were careful to say that the story was not that Obama may have been foreign, but that his persona had shifted over time. While some members of the "birther" movement maintained a desire to force the president from office, their greatest relevance really came in the weeks before and after the 2008 election, when they thought they'd found a loophole to save the country from Obama. For the seven years following, they were focused more on what's now termed "trolling" -- getting under the skin of liberals.

Trump's press conference did not end the movement, so much as it asked for a pivot. In his crisp statement, Trump insisted that "Hillary and her campaign" were the authors of birtherism, then dropped the topic with no questions. This is untrue -- Martin was raising questions about Obama's birth certificate in 2004. Since then, even some conservatives who winced at the birthers have latched onto the story that Clinton hanger-on Sid Blumenthal, who for a while in 2008 was an unpaid "senior adviser" to the campaign, told an editor at McClatchy to pursue the rumor that Obama was born in Kenya.

Blumenthal has denied this. Given when the meeting took place, it's impossible to credit "the Clinton campaign" with a rumor that had boiled online for years. (Previously, the fact that Phil Berg had supported Clinton in the 2008 primary was cited as evidence that Clintonworld started the rumor.) But most Trump's defenders are on board for the new story line -- that birtherism does not matter anymore, and that to the extent it does, it is Hillary Clinton's fault.

"Hillary was the first birther," Corsi insisted Friday.

"I at no time said Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii," said Martin, noting that he was more interested in whether the Communist writer Frank Marshall Davis was the president's real father.

Taitz, who Martin dismissed as a "crazy," was the only prominent birther still raising questions. In a rundown of the interviews she'd done on Friday, Taitz repeated the eight questions she had about the fraud the president might have committed.

"When media is corrupt, when the Department of Justice is corrupt, the country becomes a banana republic or even worse, a tyranny," she wrote. "For now, let’s concentrate on the election, let’s help Trump get elected, we’ll renew this conversation later."

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »
Donald Trump Clung to ‘Birther’ Lie for Years, and Still Isn’t Apologetic
By MICHAEL BARBARO

It was not true in 2011, when Donald J. Trump mischievously began to question President Obama’s birthplace aloud in television interviews. “I’m starting to think that he was not born here,” he said at the time.

It was not true in 2012, when he took to Twitter to declare that “an ‘extremely credible source’” had called his office to inform him that Mr. Obama’s birth certificate was “a fraud.”

It was not true in 2014, when Mr. Trump invited hackers to “please hack Obama’s college records (destroyed?) and check ‘place of birth.’”

It was never true, any of it. Mr. Obama’s citizenship was never in question. No credible evidence ever suggested otherwise.

Yet it took Mr. Trump five years of dodging, winking and joking to surrender to reality, finally, on Friday, after a remarkable campaign of relentless deception that tried to undermine the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president.

In fact, it took Mr. Trump much longer than that: Mr. Obama released his short-form birth certificate from the Hawaii Department of Health in 2008. Most of the world moved on.

But not Mr. Trump.

He nurtured the conspiracy like a poisonous flower, watering and feeding it with an ardor that still baffles and embarrasses many around him.

Mr. Trump called up like-minded sowers of the same corrosive rumor, asking them for advice on how to take a falsehood and make it mainstream in 2011, as he weighed his own run for the White House.

“What can we do to get to the bottom of this?” Mr. Trump asked Joseph Farah, an author who has long labored on the fringes of political life. “What can we do to turn the tide?”

What he could do — and what he did do — was talk about it, uninhibitedly, on social media, where dark rumors flourish in 140-character bursts and, inevitably, find a home with those who have no need for facts and whose suspicions can never be allayed.

And he mused about it on television, where bright lights and sparse editing ensure that millions can hear falsehoods unchallenged by fact-checking.

“Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?” Mr. Trump asked on ABC’s “The View.” “I want to see his birth certificate,” he told Fox News’s “On the Record.”

And so it went.

The essential question — Why promote a lie? — may be unanswerable. Was it sport? Was it his lifelong quest to court media attention? Was it racism? Was it the cynical start of his eventual campaign for president?

It might not matter. He kept doing it, even as his most senior aides assured the public that he had long since abandoned the fallacy.

He had not. He was disingenuous until the very end, telling a Washington Post reporter just 72 hours before that he was unready to concede the president’s place of birth. But he treated the weighty topic, as he does so much else, like a television cliffhanger, promising a major declaration on Friday.

And then, around 11 a.m. Friday in Washington, he gave up the lie. But he conjured up a bizarre new deception, congratulating himself for putting to rest the doubts about Mr. Obama that he had fanned since 2011. “I finished it,’’ he declared, unapologetically. “President Obama was born in the United States — period.’’

Surrounded by, and in many ways shielded by, decorated veterans in his new Washington hotel, he could not resist indulging in another falsehood — that his opponent, Hillary Clinton, had started the so-called birther movement. She did not.

Much has been made of Mr. Trump’s casual elasticity with the truth; he has exhausted an army of fact-checkers with his mischaracterizations, exaggerations and fabrications. But this lie was different from the start, an insidious, calculated calumny that sought to undo the embrace of an African-American president by the 69 million voters who elected him in 2008.

In the end, it seemed, Mr. Trump’s plot to diminish Mr. Obama did not succeed. On Friday, the president of the United States seemed much bigger.

“I was pretty confident about where I was born,” Mr. Obama said from the White House, a wry smile crossing his face. “I think most people were as well.’’

And the president had this to say about the myth heedlessly spread by the man seeking to replace him: “My hope would be that the presidential election reflects more serious issues than that.”

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2016, 03:31:27 PM »
fU apologize.  O fag shoulda released his bc years ago


Donald Trump Clung to ‘Birther’ Lie for Years, and Still Isn’t Apologetic
By MICHAEL BARBARO

It was not true in 2011, when Donald J. Trump mischievously began to question President Obama’s birthplace aloud in television interviews. “I’m starting to think that he was not born here,” he said at the time.

It was not true in 2012, when he took to Twitter to declare that “an ‘extremely credible source’” had called his office to inform him that Mr. Obama’s birth certificate was “a fraud.”

It was not true in 2014, when Mr. Trump invited hackers to “please hack Obama’s college records (destroyed?) and check ‘place of birth.’”

It was never true, any of it. Mr. Obama’s citizenship was never in question. No credible evidence ever suggested otherwise.

Yet it took Mr. Trump five years of dodging, winking and joking to surrender to reality, finally, on Friday, after a remarkable campaign of relentless deception that tried to undermine the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president.

In fact, it took Mr. Trump much longer than that: Mr. Obama released his short-form birth certificate from the Hawaii Department of Health in 2008. Most of the world moved on.

But not Mr. Trump.

He nurtured the conspiracy like a poisonous flower, watering and feeding it with an ardor that still baffles and embarrasses many around him.

Mr. Trump called up like-minded sowers of the same corrosive rumor, asking them for advice on how to take a falsehood and make it mainstream in 2011, as he weighed his own run for the White House.

“What can we do to get to the bottom of this?” Mr. Trump asked Joseph Farah, an author who has long labored on the fringes of political life. “What can we do to turn the tide?”

What he could do — and what he did do — was talk about it, uninhibitedly, on social media, where dark rumors flourish in 140-character bursts and, inevitably, find a home with those who have no need for facts and whose suspicions can never be allayed.

And he mused about it on television, where bright lights and sparse editing ensure that millions can hear falsehoods unchallenged by fact-checking.

“Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?” Mr. Trump asked on ABC’s “The View.” “I want to see his birth certificate,” he told Fox News’s “On the Record.”

And so it went.

The essential question — Why promote a lie? — may be unanswerable. Was it sport? Was it his lifelong quest to court media attention? Was it racism? Was it the cynical start of his eventual campaign for president?

It might not matter. He kept doing it, even as his most senior aides assured the public that he had long since abandoned the fallacy.

He had not. He was disingenuous until the very end, telling a Washington Post reporter just 72 hours before that he was unready to concede the president’s place of birth. But he treated the weighty topic, as he does so much else, like a television cliffhanger, promising a major declaration on Friday.

And then, around 11 a.m. Friday in Washington, he gave up the lie. But he conjured up a bizarre new deception, congratulating himself for putting to rest the doubts about Mr. Obama that he had fanned since 2011. “I finished it,’’ he declared, unapologetically. “President Obama was born in the United States — period.’’

Surrounded by, and in many ways shielded by, decorated veterans in his new Washington hotel, he could not resist indulging in another falsehood — that his opponent, Hillary Clinton, had started the so-called birther movement. She did not.

Much has been made of Mr. Trump’s casual elasticity with the truth; he has exhausted an army of fact-checkers with his mischaracterizations, exaggerations and fabrications. But this lie was different from the start, an insidious, calculated calumny that sought to undo the embrace of an African-American president by the 69 million voters who elected him in 2008.

In the end, it seemed, Mr. Trump’s plot to diminish Mr. Obama did not succeed. On Friday, the president of the United States seemed much bigger.

“I was pretty confident about where I was born,” Mr. Obama said from the White House, a wry smile crossing his face. “I think most people were as well.’’

And the president had this to say about the myth heedlessly spread by the man seeking to replace him: “My hope would be that the presidential election reflects more serious issues than that.”

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2016, 05:25:06 PM »
Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate
By James Hohmann

The consensus that Donald Trump badly lost the first debate gelled overnight. Liberals predictably panned the GOP nominee’s performance on Long Island, but some of the harshest reviews are coming from conservative thought leaders who had been starting to come around.

-- Instant reaction:

Republican pollster Frank Luntz conducted a focus group of undecided voters in Pennsylvania. Sixteen said Hillary Clinton won. Five picked Trump, per CBS News.

In a Florida focus group organized by CNN, 18 of 20 undecided voters picked Clinton as the winner.

Not one of 29 undecided voters in an Ohio focus group organized by Park Street Strategies thought Trump prevailed, while 11 picked Clinton and the rest said neither. By a two-to-one margin, the group thought Clinton had the better tone and, by a three-to-one margin, they thought she came across as more knowledgeable candidate on the issues.

A CNN/ORC flash poll found that 62 percent said the Democrat won, compared to 27 percent who picked Trump. That’s on par with 2012, when Mitt Romney was seen as the winner of the first debate.

In a separate instant-poll from the Democratic firm Public Policy Polling, 51 percent said Clinton won and 40 percent picked Trump.

Eight in 10 insiders in the key battleground states thought Clinton performed better, including 57 percent of Republicans, according to the Politico Caucus survey.

-- Trump’s surrogates in the spin room were downbeat, and the candidate himself has already begun making excuses: “They gave me a defective mic,” he complained to reporters during a gaggle. “Did you notice that? My mic was defective within the room. I wonder, was that on purpose?” There was no clear problem with his microphone during the debate, Jose DelReal notes.

Trump was supposed to stop by the Nassau County Republican Committee’s watch party on his way home. He skipped it. Clinton, meanwhile, celebrated with hundreds of supporters in Westbury.

And Rudy Giuliani, a top Trump surrogate, even suggested that Trump should skip the next two debates unless he gets concessions. “If I were Donald Trump I wouldn’t participate in another debate unless I was promised that the journalist would act like a journalist and not an incorrect, ignorant fact checker,” he said.

    Trump brought 20 minutes of material to a 90 minute show.
    — stuart stevens (@stuartpstevens) September 27, 2016

From the chief strategist of John Kasich’s 2016 campaign:

    I have never seen a more unprepared candidate in a major moment. #Malpractice
    — John Weaver (@JWGOP) September 27, 2016

Trump’s web site was not even ready for the deluge of traffic. It crashed.

-- Trump got worse with each passing exchange. “In the early stages, Clinton and Trump seemed evenly matched, but the longer it went on, the more she was able to score against him,” writes Dan Balz, The Post’s chief correspondent.

Trump took the stage subdued, trying to show he’s serious, but he became peeved as he allowed Clinton’s attacks to get under his skin. “Within minutes of the opening bell, Clinton’s attacks forced domesticated Donald to go feral – he bellowed, interrupted her repeatedly, grunted, and toward the bedraggled end, became muted and pouty,” writes Politico’s Glenn Thrush.

“’I did not! I did not! I do not say that,’ he shouted as Clinton accused him of calling climate change a hoax, which he has said on numerous occasions,” Jenna Johnson recounts. “‘Facts!’ he yelled as Clinton began to question the accuracy of his assertions. ‘Wrong! Wrong!’ he said as Clinton stated that he initially supported the Iraq War, which he had. ‘Where did you find it? Oh really?’ Trump said as Clinton referred to a beauty pageant contestant who has accused Trump of calling her ‘Miss Housekeeping’ because she is Latina.”

“Trump needed to conceal his temper … and appear ready to be president. He didn’t,” writes conservative blogger Jennifer Rubin. “There were too many instances in which the real Donald showed through. Clinton wasn’t emotive, but she was cool and efficient in drawing blood.”

“If her goal was to get under Trump’s skin — you know, sniff out his weakness, and bait him into losing his temper — it worked,” adds conservative columnist Matt Lewis. “She got under that thin skin by talking about his inherited wealth and questionable status as a billionaire.”

-- Trump played to his base. He did nothing to win over fresh converts or reassure recalcitrant Republicans. Sean Hannity’s audience is not who he needs to win over.

“Unpersuaded college educated white women didn’t come away from this debate — at least not in large numbers — feeling reassured by Trump,” conservative Jonah Goldberg writes in National Review. “Clinton was narrowcasting at the voters she needs. Trump was broadcasting to the voters he already has. … If you’re truly pro-Hillary or pro-Trump it doesn’t matter what you thought tonight. Your vote is baked in. But if you’re on the fence or thinking about not voting at all, your impression matters — a lot. And in this regard, I think Clinton was the winner.”

“Hillary was well-informed and unflappable; Trump got across his major themes but was probably too Trump to widen support,” National Review executive editor Rich Lowry concludes. “I thought Trump might save a weak substantive performance with some big moments, but he didn't have any that cut his way.”

“It is hard to imagine that there was a single moment in the debate that would have convinced a wavering college-educated woman in the Philadelphia or Cincinnati suburbs to vote for Trump,” writes Roll Call columnist Walter Shapiro. “In fact, Trump seemed to be debating with the single-minded goal of turning his gender gap into a canyon. … In 1973, a trash-talking, over-age self-described ‘chauvinist pig’ named Bobby Riggs took on Billie Jean King in a tennis match in the Houston Astrodome that was billed as The Battle of the Sexes. King won in straight sets. History repeated itself Monday. … Clinton defeated Trump in straight sets.”

-- Clinton’s performance, in contrast, will excite her base and put a pause to some of the recent bedwetting about a tightening race.

“Clinton’s calm dissection of her foe reassured jittery supporters,” writes liberal Post columnist E.J. Dionne. “Clinton shifted the contest her way during her party’s convention. She did it again during Monday night’s debate.”

“Clinton was not great at times; her language was occasionally stilted; she missed some obvious moments to go in for the kill; but she was solid and reassuring and composed,” New York Magazine’s Andrew Sullivan concludes. “I was afraid that Trump’s charisma and stage presence and salesmanship might outshine Hillary Clinton’s usually tepid and wonkish instincts. I feared that the facts wouldn’t matter; that a debate would not take place. And it is to Clinton’s great credit that she prepared, and he didn’t, and that she let him hang himself.”

“The contrast between an obviously and eminently qualified public servant and a ranting bully was as stark as any presidential debate in American history,” adds Jonathan Chait, his colleague at the magazine.

Trump’s failure to offer an improved explanation for his years challenging Barack Obama’s legitimacy could also help galvanize African American voters. “He has a long record of engaging in racist behavior, and the birther lie was a very hurtful one,” Clinton said during the debate, twisting the knife. “Barack Obama is a man of great dignity, and I could tell how much it bothered him and annoyed him that this was being touted and used against him.”

-- The Republican nominee also made a series of demonstrably untrue claims, which will make it harder for him to credibly prosecute the case that Clinton is not trustworthy.

“Trump repeatedly relied on troublesome and false facts that have been debunked throughout the campaign,” The Post’s Fact Checkers, Glenn Kessler and Michelle Ye Hee Lee, conclude. “Clinton stretched the truth on occasion, such as when she tried to wiggle out of her 2012 praise of the Trans Pacific Partnership as a ‘gold standard.’ But her misstatements paled in comparison to the list of Trump’s exaggerations and falsehoods. Trump once again asserted that the 2008 Clinton campaign was responsible for spreading the myth that President Obama was born in Kenya, when that is false. He claimed that ‘thousands’ of American jobs will leave the country when Ford shifts small-car manufacturing to Mexico, but no one here will lose their jobs. He also falsely claimed that he was against the Iraq War, when all available evidence demonstrates that he supported it until the rest of the country began to turn against it in 2004. He also once again falsely said he started his business with a ‘small loan’ from his father.”

The biggest whopper was when, despite all evidence to the contrary, Trump vehemently denied that he had supported the Iraq War at the outset. Peter Wehner, who has served in three Republican administrations, said Trump “self-destructed” as he baldly lied about his opposition to the invasion. “Mr. Trump not only denied reality; he denied reality that was captured on tape, meaning it’s indisputable,” Wehner writes in the Times. “No matter. He lives in his own make believe world. [And] for Trump to then follow up his tirade by insisting that he has the right temperament to be president shows you how unbalanced he is. The unmasking continues.”

-- Influential journalists in key battleground states are covering the debate as a loss for Trump. Three examples:

“Experts: Round 1 to Clinton” is the headline in the Des Moines Register. “He was loose with facts, short on details and exactly the sort of undisciplined non-politician that helped him win the GOP nomination,” writes Register columnist Kathie Obradovich.

“He had his best moments in the opening minutes, when he emphasized his opposition to foreign trade deal,” Henry J. Gomez writes in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “Clinton turned the one portion of the evening that could have turned into a disaster for her – a question about her irresponsible email practices while secretary of state – into a quick moment of contrition. And that was the end of it. She frequently had Trump on the defensive.”

“I thought Trump started out pretty well, but gradually got worse throughout the debate,” writes Reno Gazette-Journal columnist Jon Ralston, the dean of the Nevada press corps. “By the end, he was sputtering about Rosie. Clinton killed him on taxes, birtherism and misogyny. And he was so rattled, he didn't bring up her weaknesses very much. Clinton clearly won.”

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2016, 05:34:21 PM »
Trump BROUGHT UP the miss piggy thing on FOX morning news today.  THis is what he said THIS MORNING on tv:

"She was the worst we ever had.  She gained a massive amount of weight.  We had a real problem"

WTF... Almost 40% of Americans are overweight.   Unreal.   He's shitting on a woman, a latina, and on overweight people - all at once.

Clinton had a slick commerical produced and ready.  Trump walked right into it - and then went on TV to give it traction.  If he's not working for her, then he's the easiest person to manipulate in the history of politics.  He brought the shit up!!

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2016, 06:29:44 PM »
So, since the start of this thread, August 17, how have the polls trended?


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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2016, 06:54:21 PM »
So, since the start of this thread, August 17, how have the polls trended?

Trump is right around the highs he had in July of this year.

National average of 44.1% for Trump, and 47.6% Hilary.

He's closed the gap, but he is still only at 44%, and I don't think he's hit a 45% average EVER. 

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2016, 07:00:56 PM »
Trump is right around the highs he had in July of this year.

National average of 44.1% for Trump, and 47.6% Hilary.

He's closed the gap, but he is still only at 44%, and I don't think he's hit a 45% average EVER. 
Probably going to drop down after being so disrespectful and not shaking Lester's hand, right?

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Re: Trump: the implosion continues
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2016, 07:03:43 PM »
Probably going to drop down after being so disrespectful and not shaking Lester's hand, right?

probably going to drop because he let hillary off the hook.

he's talking about Rosie, but doesn't bring up the wall, clinton foundation, etc.