Interesting discussion. Some really good points, especially about his back, which hd recognized in the late 70s and started doing power cleans and deadlifts, along with heavy machine shrugs. Like in his pecs, he just didn't have the fiber density, that he had in his delts, arms, and legs. He had good traps from the front, his MM pose was freaky. He was more gifted in the limbs than in the torso, by his own admission, though he gained evenly when I asked him. The drug thing is right and wrong. He started using at 19 when he first competed in the Mr. America contest. He used Deca, though not in those doses, that figure came from Viator when he was high. Mike used d Decadurabolin, Durabolin and Dianabol. He found with more modest doses, he had less water retention issues. Was big on going up on his roof, and sweating out the water. Interesting story about Casey when he trained with Mike, Mike told me that Casey was so 'luded out which spotting Mike doing Universal Incline presses with the stack plus a 45 lb plate, that Mike told him, if you're not into this, then we shouldn't train together, this is important to me. He would say the same thing when training clients, including me. Made a study of motivation, used to attend classes given by Rex Dante, Mike said he'd get so excited going, he'd almost pee his pants lol. The amphetamines were pretty much his downfall, along with unresolved psychological issues, which he admitted fed of each other. In the 90s, he was doing well financially, had a great place in Marina Del Rey, and later in Playa which was even cooler, split 3 level condo, guy had good taste. Bought a Jag around that time, but drove a crappy black station wagon before that. He was only psychotic sounding one time when I talked to him, we used to have 3 hour phone convos the night of the 94 O, he was Dorian was going to win, but that the biceps tear wouldn't hurt him, probably add more peak if anything, well he was partly right. Now he was seeing dead people, that night, I escaped that call when I could lol. I do miss the guy, he was always a good friend.