god wants the world to be ruled by evil because

[FREAKgeek]

To "know god"?  Not sure I follow, about the atheists you mention who study toward doing that.

Well, to know that god indeed exists.

[Man of Steel]

I find that ironic, cause, some of the greatest desires to study and know god are from atheists.

Share any of those studies. 

[Las Vegas]

Well, to know that god indeed exists.

You mean, somehow, they attempt to demonstrate, or to prove, or to "show" in some way, to the rest of us that God does not exist?

Is that what you're saying?

[AbrahamG]

God?  LMFAO!

[Man of Steel]

God?  LMFAO!

hit and run coward....you need Jesus....he's the only way

[FREAKgeek]

Share any of those studies. 

You're missing my point.

You're saying all atheists or agnostics have never read the Bible or took it seriously and open minded at one point? I think you believe that they all just don't care to.

Or

Do you really think that they all secretly believe and deny it due to some sort of hate or jealousy towards god? Lol. Please tell me you aren't that naive.

[FREAKgeek]

You mean, somehow, they attempt to demonstrate, or to prove, or to "show" in some way, to the rest of us that God does not exist?

Is that what you're saying?

You're sounding like a lawyer.

I would say some try to, definitely. But, the correct position is to demonstrate that it's unjustified.

[Man of Steel]

You're missing my point.

You're saying all atheists or agnostics have never read the Bible or took it seriously and open minded at one point? I think you believe that they all just don't care to.

Or

Do you really think that they all secretly believe and deny it due to some sort of hate or jealousy towards god? Lol. Please tell me you aren't that naive.

And you're again avoiding mine and adopting a straw man that you can defend a bit easier.

Another straw man.  People suppress God in their unrighteousness because they love their sin, hate accountability and are haters of God that spend their energy suppressing the truth of God's judgment for a another round of pornography, partying, adultery, fornication, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, violence, stealing, materialism, idolatry.....and on and on.

[Las Vegas]

You're sounding like a lawyer.

I would say some try to, definitely. But, the correct position is to demonstrate that it's unjustified.

But isn't it true that the most they could hope for, is to make a convincing attack on organized religion?  That's just another (often deserved) attack on man, though.

[FREAKgeek]

And you're again avoiding mine and adopting a straw man that you can defend a bit easier.

Another straw man.  People suppress God in their unrighteousness because they love their sin, hate accountability and are haters of God that spend their energy suppressing the truth of God's judgment for a another round of pornography, partying, adultery, fornication, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, violence, stealing, materialism, idolatry.....and on and on.

What am I avoiding? Please rephrase.

[FREAKgeek]

But isn't it true that the most they could hope for, is to make a convincing attack on organized religion?  That's just another (often deserved) attack on man, though.

That's another ball of wax .

[Man of Steel]

What am I avoiding? Please rephrase.

I just asked for two examples of the many studies you noted.

[FREAKgeek]

I just asked for two examples of the many studies you noted.

How about the known works of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, etc.

Does this mean they secretly agree with you but are out to put it down?

[Man of Steel]

How about the known works of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, etc.

Does this mean they secretly agree with you but are out to put it down?

They have published books where they give their opinions about religion (mostly philosophical in nature....Dawkins introduces a bit of genetics), but I'm not aware of religious studies they've conducted in which they attempt to study and know God.  They begin with their presuppositions and expand their subjectivity from there.  They aren't looking for truth they're looking to stand at odds.   A study would be more controlled, as free from bias as possible and would exhaust source material (ex: biblical scripture that provides definite guidance on coming to know God).

Now I may have misunderstood what you meant by study and you were being more general in what you were suggesting as a study (which is fine).  That said, technically 3 of the 4 horsemen have done a study of religion to some extent.   So in that regard I may have misunderstood your intent.

So I'll just leave the studies piece out there for now.

[FREAKgeek]

Come on dude, they all read the Bible and took it seriously. 

[Las Vegas]

FREAKgeek - are you saying that, by reading a Bible and "taking it seriously" but nonetheless finishing it without being moved toward it, should show something?  If so, I believe you raise some interesting questions with that.

[FREAKgeek]

FREAKgeek - are you saying that, by reading a Bible and "taking it seriously" but nonetheless finishing it without being moved toward it, should show something?  If so, I believe you raise some interesting questions with that.

You can easily be "being moved toward it" and it's nothing more than emotional, wishful thinking.

[Las Vegas]

You can easily be "being moved toward it" and it's nothing more than emotional, wishful thinking.

What might a person be wishing for, would you say?

[FREAKgeek]

What might a person be wishing for, would you say?

How about an easy solution to life's problems

[Las Vegas]

How about an easy solution to life's problems

In what way might it be seen as a solution?

Btw, just to be 100% clear, not trolling anyone in this thread, not baiting anyone -- nothing like that, at all.  This stuff isn't discussed nearly enough in this world and I can't think of a topic which deserves more respect.

[FREAKgeek]

In what way might it be seen as a solution?

People pray for all sorts of things - health, financial well being, safety, etc. Who wouldn't want a friendly god on your side concerned about your affairs?

[Las Vegas]

People pray for all sorts of things - health, financial well being, safety, etc. Who wouldn't want a friendly god on your side concerned about your affairs?

You mean to say for selfish reasons?  Like maybe a "long shot" sort of thing.

[FREAKgeek]

You mean to say for selfish reasons?  Like maybe a "long shot" sort of thing.

Well if you pray for your own well being, by definition it's selfish. But this isn't necessarily a negative connotation. I'm generalizing.

[Las Vegas]

Well if you pray for your own well being, by definition it's selfish. But this isn't necessarily a negative connotation. I'm generalizing.

Yes, I understand what you mean.  And now that you mention it, I'd bet it's probably the most discouraging factor to be found.

But if self-centeredness, as a whole, is a main symptom of our diseased world, then maybe it looks like the person's praying to make it worse without even realizing it.

[Man of Steel]

Come on dude, they all read the Bible and took it seriously. 

And I believe they have....not in question for me.  Although reading scripture and actually doing what it says to do is the difference.  In the simplest terms they read the bible in an effort to find reasons not to follow it.  The great irony written in scripture being that those nonbelievers (with hardened hearts) can't discern scripture yet know the truth of God's reality revealed to them in God's creation.  Yet they suppress that divinely provided truth in their unrighteousness.