Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 an hour

[cephissus]

Instead of I that I go through all this trouble writing this and not meaning it. That I just make it up for fun . Why don't you address the argument and debate and offer a counter point? Give an example where it's not true. And just to be clear, I mean advances that made it to the market. There are many ideas that are tried and failed but those technology advances that actually did produce always resulted in more and better jobs producing better and cheaper products.

Once upon a time, twenty chair makers lived in the same city. Each knew how to make an entire chair. Then came the chair factory, which makes a chair in five steps. Each step requires someone to do a unique, tiny, and trivial job. The factory can make enough chairs for the whole city.

Instead of 20 jobs, we have five. Instead of a satisfying job, we have an extremely boring and degrading job. I'll grant that the jobs are "new" at least...

[TheGrinch]

Once upon a time, twenty chair makers lived in the same city. Each knew how to make an entire chair. Then came the chair factory, which makes a chair in five steps. Each step requires someone to do a unique, tiny, and trivial job. The factory can make enough chairs for the whole city.

Instead of 20 jobs, we have five. Instead of a satisfying job, we have an extremely boring and degrading job. I'll grant that the jobs are "new" at least...

All 1000000% due to pure greed of the 1%... thus the need for a salary cap

[Dave D]

Once upon a time, twenty chair makers lived in the same city. Each knew how to make an entire chair. Then came the chair factory, which makes a chair in five steps. Each step requires someone to do a unique, tiny, and trivial job. The factory can make enough chairs for the whole city.

Instead of 20 jobs, we have five. Instead of a satisfying job, we have an extremely boring and degrading job. I'll grant that the jobs are "new" at least...

Once upon a time we all depended horses for transportation and a life was spent in the village or town you were born.

20 chair makers were chair makers because their fore fathers were. That didn't mean it was a satisfying or fulfilling job, it meant they were born into that life. Today they can pursue any dream or desire they have.

The old ways weren't always better, nor are the new. The past is romanticized by people who weren't there to live it, just like the future is imagined by those in the present. We live in the now

[Parker]

All 1000000% due to pure greed of the 1%... thus the need for a salary cap

And has this been proven to work, when it comes to how much an owner of a business or CEO can make?

[cephissus]

20 chair makers were chair makers because their fore fathers were. That didn't mean it was a satisfying or fulfilling job, it meant they were born into that life. Today they can pursue any dream or desire they have.

The old ways weren't always better, nor are the new. The past is romanticized by people who weren't there to live it, just like the future is imagined by those in the present. We live in the now

Anyone can pursue their dream. I was reading Herodotus' histories and learned about many people who risked everything and succeeded. Some impersonated the king and took his throne, some incited rebellion and came out on top, some founded new communities, etc.

I'm not saying the past was better, but are people really more free? It depends if they realize their dreams more or less often than they used to, and what those dreams are.

[Dave D]

Anyone can pursue their dream. I was reading Herodotus' histories and learned about many people who risked everything and succeeded. Some impersonated the king and took his throne, some incited rebellion and came out on top, some founded new communities, etc.

I'm not saying the past was better, but are people really more free? It depends if they realize their dreams more or less often than they used to, and what those dreams are.

Your points are  valid and I don't have an answer if people experience more freedom. I do think we live in the most exciting time with the most opportunity to live a best life.

Bezos was a regular human who built a conglomeration. I like to believe that anyone can chase there dream and succeed.

[TheGrinch]

Once upon a time we all depended horses for transportation and a life was spent in the village or town you were born.

20 chair makers were chair makers because their fore fathers were. That didn't mean it was a satisfying or fulfilling job, it meant they were born into that life. Today they can pursue any dream or desire they have.

The old ways weren't always better, nor are the new. The past is romanticized by people who weren't there to live it, just like the future is imagined by those in the present. We live in the now

and everyone lived off one salary.. the man worked.. woman took care of the house/kids....

THATS the way the economy and life is supposed to work..

[Dave D]

and everyone lived off one salary.. the man worked.. woman took care of the house/kids....

THATS the way the economy and life is supposed to work..

I'm not arguing that at all.

[cephissus]

Your points are  valid and I don't have an answer if people experience more freedom. I do think we live in the most exciting time with the most opportunity to live a best life.

Bezos was a regular human who built a conglomeration. I like to believe that anyone can chase there dream and succeed.

Yeah, it's cool. I just learned to see things differently during my time at Amazon. For over five years I worked a degrading job, becoming stupider by the day while making a killing. The work was so boring and pointless I started to wonder if they just pay people to keep them stupid. There's no way more than 5% of what went on in my department was of any real value to anyone.

At the same time I love using Uber, which probably would be a much shittier service without AWS (or one of its competitors) -- if it could exist at all without them. I don't order many packages, but of course I like getting them the next day. I couldn't give a shit about 99% of the worthless apps that flood onto my screen, but I like having my music library with Amazon, streaming in anytime, anywhere, to any device.

Are all these things worth it? Before working at Amazon, I would have said "yes" without hesitation. But the longer I worked there, the more I started to question myself.

I felt less "human" every day. What did it matter if I could get movies on demand, when I couldn't stop thinking about some annoying conflict at work long enough to enjoy one? Why did I cares about news, books or any cultural material? Every nose-to-monitor day, I forgot more and more of the real-world and historical context needed to understand and enjoy them in the first place. I liked buying expensive clothes with my big paychecks, but they just gathered dust, since I never went anywhere but the office and gym.

In short, I started to comprehend the common paranoia about "consumerism" after seeing firsthand the gross overpayment for pointless services rendered by a rapidly-dehumanized, disposable, and quickly-restocked immigrant workforce, all perpetuated to ensure that 99.999% uptime, 4.98 star service, 14.7 minute delivery window, and burgeoning, bursting catalogue we call progress. Wanton waste disguised as "efficiency" -- who really pays the price for those competition-crushing savings if not -- you, the worker?

Sorry, sort of tangential rant, not really directed at you.

[pellius]

Once upon a time, twenty chair makers lived in the same city. Each knew how to make an entire chair. Then came the chair factory, which makes a chair in five steps. Each step requires someone to do a unique, tiny, and trivial job. The factory can make enough chairs for the whole city.

Instead of 20 jobs, we have five. Instead of a satisfying job, we have an extremely boring and degrading job. I'll grant that the jobs are "new" at least...

Ok, so you can't think of a single example. Neither can I but I'm sure there are some. Nothing has a 100 percent success rate.

[Dave D]

Yeah, it's cool. I just learned to see things differently during my time at Amazon. For over five years I worked a degrading job, becoming stupider by the day while making a killing. The work was so boring and pointless I started to wonder if they just pay people to keep them stupid. There's no way more than 5% of what went on in my department was of any real value to anyone.

At the same time I love using Uber, which probably would be a much shittier service without AWS (or one of its competitors) -- if it could exist at all without them. I don't order many packages, but of course I like getting them the next day. I couldn't give a shit about 99% of the worthless apps that flood onto my screen, but I like having my music library with Amazon, streaming in anytime, anywhere, to any device.

Are all these things worth it? Before working at Amazon, I would have said "yes" without hesitation. But the longer I worked there, the more I started to question myself.

I felt less "human" every day. What did it matter if I could get movies on demand, when I couldn't stop thinking about some annoying conflict at work long enough to enjoy one? Why did I cares about news, books or any cultural material? Every nose-to-monitor day, I forgot more and more of the real-world and historical context needed to understand and enjoy them in the first place. I liked buying expensive clothes with my big paychecks, but they just gathered dust, since I never went anywhere but the office and gym.

In short, I started to comprehend the common paranoia about "consumerism" after seeing firsthand the gross overpayment for pointless services rendered by a rapidly-dehumanized, disposable, and quickly-restocked immigrant workforce, all perpetuated to ensure that 99.999% uptime, 4.98 star service, 14.7 minute delivery window, and burgeoning, bursting catalogue we call progress. Wanton waste disguised as "efficiency" -- who really pays the price for those competition-crushing savings if not -- you, the worker?

Sorry, sort of tangential rant, not really directed at you.

I totally understand and I can relate from where you're coming from. I forgot you worked for Amazon so you have a better perspective and insight than the crap I was spewing.

I was also "trapped" in a good paying job that left me depressed, feeling worthless and miserable. No amount of money, or at least what I was making, can overcome that.

[cephissus]

Ok, so you can't think of a single example. Neither can I but I'm sure there are some. Nothing has a 100 percent success rate.

[IroNat]

Amazon is going to pay $15/hr but they are taking away bonus and stock options.

Probably works out to a wash for them.

[pellius]

Amazon is going to pay $15/hr but they are taking away bonus and stock options.

Probably works out to a wash for them.

Which would you prefer?

[Kwon3]

Which would you prefer?

Let it go, man. Some people just don't see the issue through the prism of the average Amazon hourly worker. I've talked to a few since making this thread and they couldn't care less about stock options. They just want enough money to pay their rent.

[illuminati]

Yeah, it's cool. I just learned to see things differently during my time at Amazon. For over five years I worked a degrading job, becoming stupider by the day while making a killing. The work was so boring and pointless I started to wonder if they just pay people to keep them stupid. There's no way more than 5% of what went on in my department was of any real value to anyone.

At the same time I love using Uber, which probably would be a much shittier service without AWS (or one of its competitors) -- if it could exist at all without them. I don't order many packages, but of course I like getting them the next day. I couldn't give a shit about 99% of the worthless apps that flood onto my screen, but I like having my music library with Amazon, streaming in anytime, anywhere, to any device.

Are all these things worth it? Before working at Amazon, I would have said "yes" without hesitation. But the longer I worked there, the more I started to question myself.

I felt less "human" every day. What did it matter if I could get movies on demand, when I couldn't stop thinking about some annoying conflict at work long enough to enjoy one? Why did I cares about news, books or any cultural material? Every nose-to-monitor day, I forgot more and more of the real-world and historical context needed to understand and enjoy them in the first place. I liked buying expensive clothes with my big paychecks, but they just gathered dust, since I never went anywhere but the office and gym.

In short, I started to comprehend the common paranoia about "consumerism" after seeing firsthand the gross overpayment for pointless services rendered by a rapidly-dehumanized, disposable, and quickly-restocked immigrant workforce, all perpetuated to ensure that 99.999% uptime, 4.98 star service, 14.7 minute delivery window, and burgeoning, bursting catalogue we call progress. Wanton waste disguised as "efficiency" -- who really pays the price for those competition-crushing savings if not -- you, the worker?

Sorry, sort of tangential rant, not really directed at you.

Very good post
And insight.

Working conditions / pay etc have gone backwards in most jobs here in the U.K.
Since the late 90’s if not before.

[Kwon3]

Very good post
And insight.

Working conditions / pay etc have gone backwards in most jobs here in the U.K.
Since the late 90’s if not before.

Doesn't help a growing Muslim subgroup (benefits scroungers) have elbowed aside the old White Trash in council flats so parodied in the 80s-90s on TV and taken their place, expect they make a lot more children and preach hatred for the country. You can't go to any shopping mall or Tesco in big cities and not see like 20 ragheads pushing shopping carts with four kids in them. Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and Cameron ruined the country. I hope to see the day every shaven-headed soccer hooligan and pub regular in a football shirt with broken teeth and gold earrings goes out with cricket bats and brass knuckles and beats the living shit out of the police and trashes their local MPs office on live TV. The Irish had two deadly paramilitary forces that still exist and shot each other and English soldiers whenever they had to blow off some steam. The UK and Scotland needs the same. Let's get the Neds out there too, put the buckfast and fags done and go fucking kill people.

[Kwon3]

^^^^ this is what they brought into Great Britain. How riots didn't occur against it after it happened is beyond me. My guess is English women came out with their whole "all muslims aren't terrorists" and "we're a welcoming country, we're better than judging all people on the actions of a few" bullshit. So I guess you can conclude the triggered, frothing protesters in DC right now as basically the same as the shitbags in England. Same delusions. Same self-destructive tendencies.

[illuminati]

Doesn't help a growing Muslim subgroup (benefits scroungers) have elbowed aside the old White Trash in council flats so parodied in the 80s-90s on TV and taken their place, expect they make a lot more children and preach hatred for the country. You can't go to any shopping mall or Tesco in big cities and not see like 20 ragheads pushing shopping carts with four kids in them. Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and Cameron ruined the country. I hope to see the day every shaven-headed soccer hooligan and pub regular in a football shirt with broken teeth and gold earrings goes out with cricket bats and brass knuckles and beats the living shit out of the police and trashes their local MPs office on live TV. The Irish had two deadly paramilitary forces that still exist and shot each other and English soldiers whenever they had to blow off some steam. The UK and Scotland needs the same. Let's get the Neds out there too, put the buckfast and fags done and go fucking kill people.

Very well said
Totally agree with you.
And the Traitorous politicians have the idiot Liberal Leftist Thought Police
Listening & Watching Everyone To report them should they dare to Speak
Out Against the Filthy Scumbag Muslims.

Seriously I’m looking forward to the Revolt
At 58 May I live long enough to see & join in.

[illuminati]

^^^^ this is what they brought into Great Britain. How riots didn't occur against it after it happened is beyond me. My guess is English women came out with their whole "all muslims aren't terrorists" and "we're a welcoming country, we're better than judging all people on the actions of a few" bullshit. So I guess you can conclude the triggered, frothing protesters in DC right now as basically the same as the shitbags in England. Same delusions. Same self-destructive tendencies.

And you have the likes of Howard / Prime / Straw etc etc the Liberal Leftists
That cannot & will not see The Truth & Facts Going on Right Before Their Eyes
FFS this Liberalism is Some form Of Brainwashed Mental Illness.