Author Topic: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear  (Read 15818 times)

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2018, 03:56:47 PM »
He just flings poop at his patients. (Andhis Mom) shes right here and told me so...

Thing is, I’m probably more on top of my heath than he is.

Powerlift66

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2018, 03:59:34 PM »
Thing is, I’m probably more on top of my heath than he is.

Thats why trolls attack, jealousy...

dr.chimps

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2018, 04:15:30 PM »
Thing is, I’m probably more on top of my heath than he is.
You, mean me? Un-ripped-off? Perfect health? Sure, I'll call you.  ::)

pellius

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2018, 10:07:52 PM »
Thing is, I’m probably more on top of my heath than he is.

When you consider how bitter and angry Chimps has gotten over the years you can be sure things are not going well. This is not a happy man.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2018, 11:32:11 PM »
Higher reps with lighter (much lighter) will allow greater blood flow to the area. As far as not isolating, I don't want closed chain anything on a machine, Using free weight in the way of more dumbbell work allows me to recruit more of the surrounding muscle groups and stabilizers.

Everyone is an expert on Getbig. Broscience is rampant here. Anecdotal experience is all one needs to be an expert.  ::)

pellius

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2018, 02:42:12 AM »
Everyone is an expert on Getbig. Broscience is rampant here. Anecdotal experience is all one needs to be an expert.  ::)

Yes, I didn't think blood flowed through tendon and ligaments as in the case with muscles. I remember going through a treatment for my knees called Prolotherapy where they injected a substance into the tendons to cause inflammation that stimulates your body's healing mechanism producing collagen and stimulating the growth of new tendon fibers.

I also am not clear on this notion of stabilizing muscles. All muscles in a sense act as stabilizers but is there a special class of stabilizing muscles?
No doubt you are using more muscles to control a dumbbell press than you would a barbell press and even less so using a machine where everything is "stabilized" for you. But is training in an unstable environment a good thing in regard to strengthening the target muscle?
It seems to me that one must develop a skill, in this case balancing and keeping stable, to perform with a dumbbell then on a Nautilus machine.
That's why a beginner doing dumbbell presses will start to increase resistance rapidly but not because he is getting stronger but because he is getting better at balancing those dumbbells.

If an unstable environment was conducive and more effective to increasing muscle size and strength then wouldn't it follow that the more unstable the environment the better? Of course, it is harder but is it better for muscle hypertrophy?  Squatting on a Swiss ball is much harder than on a solid floor but because of it's unstable environment you simply can't tax your quads to the extent that you can on a solid floor due to the unstable environment. You are developing a skill, coordinating your muscles, balancing -- stabilizing as it were -- to squat on a Swiss ball which does not necessarily translate into putting the target muscle, presumably the quads, under maximum load.

Sure you use more of everything to balance those dumbells but whatever muscles you are using to develop that skill could it not be addressed more effectively by targeting those muscle specifically? And it would also seem that the more unstable the environment that more likely you are to hurt yourself as the margin of error is greater. The "bar" or plane of resistance will always be consistent with say a Hammer Press than with a Bench Press where you might deviate from the left or right or up or down as you begin to fatigue or simply get sloppy.   
   

dr.chimps

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2018, 05:00:04 AM »
Yes, I didn't think blood flowed through tendon and ligaments as in the case with muscles. I remember going through a treatment for my knees called Prolotherapy where they injected a substance into the tendons to cause inflammation that stimulates your body's healing mechanism producing collagen and stimulating the growth of new tendon fibers.

I also am not clear on this notion of stabilizing muscles. All muscles in a sense act as stabilizers but is there a special class of stabilizing muscles?
No doubt you are using more muscles to control a dumbbell press than you would a barbell press and even less so using a machine where everything is "stabilized" for you. But is training in an unstable environment a good thing in regard to strengthening the target muscle?
It seems to me that one must develop a skill, in this case balancing and keeping stable, to perform with a dumbbell then on a Nautilus machine.
That's why a beginner doing dumbbell presses will start to increase resistance rapidly but not because he is getting stronger but because he is getting better at balancing those dumbbells.

If an unstable environment was conducive and more effective to increasing muscle size and strength then wouldn't it follow that the more unstable the environment the better? Of course, it is harder but is it better for muscle hypertrophy?  Squatting on a Swiss ball is much harder than on a solid floor but because of it's unstable environment you simply can't tax your quads to the extent that you can on a solid floor due to the unstable environment. You are developing a skill, coordinating your muscles, balancing -- stabilizing as it were -- to squat on a Swiss ball which does not necessarily translate into putting the target muscle, presumably the quads, under maximum load.

Sure you use more of everything to balance those dumbells but whatever muscles you are using to develop that skill could it not be addressed more effectively by targeting those muscle specifically? And it would also seem that the more unstable the environment that more likely you are to hurt yourself as the margin of error is greater. The "bar" or plane of resistance will always be consistent with say a Hammer Press than with a Bench Press where you might deviate from the left
or right or up or down as you begin to fatigue or simply get sloppy.   
   
WHAT A loud mouth.

/shut the fuck up, and let me treat you

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2018, 08:06:48 AM »
Everyone is an expert on Getbig. Broscience is rampant here. Anecdotal experience is all one needs to be an expert.  ::)

Shut up Vince. Stick to what you know whatever that may be. This clearly isn’t it

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2018, 09:34:33 AM »
Everyone is an expert on Getbig. Broscience is rampant here. Anecdotal experience is all one needs to be an expert.  ::)

haha, this is the funniest thing you have ever written.

Can you please provide me with peer-reviewed journals regarding your Bicep Supination Machine and hypertrophy theory?

Or, do you just rely on anecdotal evidence?  :D :D :D

You are a major hypocrite.
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Thin Lizzy

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2018, 01:45:46 PM »
haha, this is the funniest thing you have ever written.

Can you please provide me with peer-reviewed journals regarding your Bicep Supination Machine and hypertrophy theory?

Or, do you just rely on anecdotal evidence?  :D :D :D

You are a major hypocrite.

All of the bro science from the 1970s regarding training and diet turned out to be right. Now, you have all these ex personal trainers getting their PhD’s and writing papers confirming what has already been known for 50 years.

Here’s some more anecdotal. In my estimation, older bodybuilders would be better off eschewing heavy chest work and making the overhead press their primary strength movement. Way too many of these pec tears for it to be worthwhile. Better to keep the chest training light.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2018, 01:53:36 PM »
All of the bro science from the 1970s regarding training and diet turned out to be right. Now, you have all these ex personal trainers getting their PhD’s and writing papers confirming what has already been known for 50 years.

Here’s some more anecdotal. In my estimation, older bodybuilders would be better off eschewing heavy chest work and making the overhead press their primary strength movement. Way too many of these pec tears for it to be worthwhile. Better to keep the chest training light.

That may be true, but that in no way provides evidence for Basile's supposedly original hypertrophy theory. I have no problem accepting any theory from the 70's or any other time, as long as there is evidence behind it. Basile's "original" ideas = no evidence. Just because an idea is from a certain time period in no way assumes that it's true.

Maybe getbig can start a gofundme and get Basile's Supination Machine shipped to Caltech so they can run some studies on its effectiveness.
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Thin Lizzy

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2018, 01:58:14 PM »
That may be true, but that in no way provides evidence for Basile's supposedly original hypertrophy theory. I have no problem accepting any theory from the 70's or any other time, as long as there is evidence behind it. Basile's "original" ideas = no evidence. Just because an idea is from a certain time period in no way assumes that it's true.

Maybe getbig can start a gofundme and get Basile's Supination Machine shipped to Caltech so they can run some studies on its effectiveness.

I’ve been coming to this site since about 2001 and I’ve yet to hear  Basile’s theory. Apparently it exists but he’s never shared it.🤔

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2018, 02:03:28 PM »
I’ve been coming to this site since about 2001 and I’ve yet to hear  Basile’s theory. Apparently it exists but he’s never shared it.🤔

He claims its his hypertrophy theory.

I am not into the scientific aspects of training, so I have no idea how original it is. He just claims to have a theory of hypertrophy. Funny thing, it really is just a hypothesis until it becomes a theory.

Vince Basile:

"To the students of hypertrophy out there. Here is a simple experiment you can do to test my theory. If you don't grow rapidly....and are eating sufficient food....then my theory is false and must be

discarded. Okay, here is what you do. Select whatever exercise you want for biceps. Train in any fashion you want using reasonably heavy resistance but you must generate severe soreness in your biceps that

lasts several days. Retrain on the 3rd day even if still sore. After a few sets things will be fine. Keep the muscle sore. That is the key to rapid hypertrophy. Once you get to your maximum resistance then stay

there for many sets. If you can't generate soreness then choose another exercise or do more maximum sets or both. If you cannot generate soreness you will NOT grow rapidly."

X

pellius

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2018, 02:05:19 PM »
WHAT A loud mouth.

/shut the fuck up, and let me treat you

LOL! You went through all the trouble of reading and striking out the context. God, I am so in your head.

You've become such a miserable little old man. Everything bothers you. You just reek of bitter unhappiness.

You're losing at life old man. Everyone sees it.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2018, 02:21:29 PM »
All of the bro science from the 1970s regarding training and diet turned out to be right. Now, you have all these ex personal trainers getting their PhD’s and writing papers confirming what has already been known for 50 years.

Here’s some more anecdotal. In my estimation, older bodybuilders would be better off eschewing heavy chest work and making the overhead press their primary strength movement. Way too many of these pec tears for it to be worthwhile. Better to keep the chest training light.

I don't know about that, Muscle "confusion" was debunked about 20+ years ago..lol. As far as older bodybuilders and chest work, we're not necessarily talking about strength. As an older bodybuilder, even though I don't, I would stay away from most OH movements but only in certain cases. Not everyone is going to get a tear, it depends on past injury history.

pellius

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2018, 02:35:12 PM »
I think Vince's theory that you have to be sore all the time is extremely flawed. Soreness indicates that a muscle has not fully recovered and to continue to break it down when it is already in a broken down state just does not comport with common sense. You have to wait until your muscle has completely recovered from the stress you put on it and then allow additional time to overcompensate from that stress.

One person that I pay attention to is John Meadows. He's very intelligent with a very successful career outside of bbing. He has decades of real-world experience actually training and competing on a world class level (Vince hasn't trained seriously in decades). He also has had to overcome some very serious physical setbacks.

This is what John has to say about muscle soreness beginning at 4:22.


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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2018, 03:11:46 PM »
I don't know about that, Muscle "confusion" was debunked about 20+ years ago..lol. As far as older bodybuilders and chest work, we're not necessarily talking about strength. As an older bodybuilder, even though I don't, I would stay away from most OH movements but only in certain cases. Not everyone is going to get a tear, it depends on past injury history.

 I’m talking about the basic principles: sets and reps, recovery time.

You are a guy who has devoted his entire life to weightlifting and you tore a pec. It would stand to reason that people without your knowledge would also do so.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2018, 03:20:01 PM »
I’m talking about the basic principles: sets and reps, recovery time.

You are a guy who has devoted his entire life to weightlifting and you tore a pec. It would stand to reason that people without your knowledge would also do so.

Can you try this and report back to us with your results.


"To the students of hypertrophy out there. Here is a simple experiment you can do to test my theory. If you don't grow rapidly....and are eating sufficient food....then my theory is false and must be

discarded. Okay, here is what you do. Select whatever exercise you want for biceps. Train in any fashion you want using reasonably heavy resistance but you must generate severe soreness in your biceps that

lasts several days. Retrain on the 3rd day even if still sore. After a few sets things will be fine. Keep the muscle sore. That is the key to rapid hypertrophy. Once you get to your maximum resistance then stay

there for many sets. If you can't generate soreness then choose another exercise or do more maximum sets or both. If you cannot generate soreness you will NOT grow rapidly."
X

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2018, 04:18:10 PM »
I will pay to have Vince’s machine shipped to Cal Tech.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2018, 04:23:06 PM »
I will pay to have Vince’s machine shipped to Cal Tech.

Not a good idea. I stand corrected.

The Bicep Supination Machine cannot be shipped. It must be in someone's possession at all times.

Irongrip, I suggest you and I, go to Australia and get a hold of the bicep supination machine. We will bring it back by boat, plane, car, etc, etc. However, it must never leave our possession at any time. It's like the Mona Lisa.
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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2018, 04:41:42 PM »
There will always be a lot of interest in improving ways to make muscles grow. Pellius adheres to the principles in the book The Stress of Life by Dr Hans Selye. Those principles have been around since about 1960. Pellius concludes than any departure from stimulus - rest - recovery is not optimal re hypertrophy. How would he know if he hasn’t tried the every 3rd day even though sore? Also, please explain why most swimmers and track athletes train almost daily and still improve?

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2018, 04:51:23 PM »
Anecdotal evidence that Vince's Bicep Supination Machine and Hypertrophy Theory are correct:

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Vince B

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2018, 04:56:18 PM »
Shut up Vince. Stick to what you know whatever that may be. This clearly isn’t it

Reminds me of a personal trainer who worked in my gym. One day she boasted that she knew more about training than I did. Imagine my surprise when she tore an ab muscle doing leg raises with straight legs. I warned her that keeping the legs bent was safer. What did I know? Coach is another know it all who is rather ignorant of lots of things from business to training. He literally can’t be helped because he doesn’t listen.

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2018, 05:00:26 PM »
There will always be a lot of interest in improving ways to make muscles grow. Pellius adheres to the principles in the book The Stress of Life by Dr Hans Selye. Those principles have been around since about 1960. Pellius concludes than any departure from stimulus - rest - recovery is not optimal re hypertrophy. How would he know if he hasn’t tried the every 3rd day even though sore? Also, please explain why most swimmers and track athletes train almost daily and still improve?

1960....think about that Vince 🙄

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Re: 6 Weeks Post Pec Tear
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2018, 05:01:21 PM »
There will always be a lot of interest in improving ways to make muscles grow. Pellius adheres to the principles in the book The Stress of Life by Dr Hans Selye. Those principles have been around since about 1960. Pellius concludes than any departure from stimulus - rest - recovery is not optimal re hypertrophy. How would he know if he hasn’t tried the every 3rd day even though sore? Also, please explain why most swimmers and track athletes train almost daily and still improve?

You’re saying you can train sore and still get a decent workout?