Pete Grymkowski: All Drugs?

[honest]

Grymo, has always been known to exaggerate, thees no doubt he and others from that era, took a lot and a lot more orals than todays guys other than pre contest. But i always found his stories to be ridiculous.

I agree with van on Kerr his statements are similar to Petes fabricated.

[Van_Bilderass]

well, you "can" shoot a lot of shit IV, provided it's water based (or even either PG/PPG? like valium is i believe? too lazy to check, but anyways)... in theory you could run test suspension or winstrol IV if it's filtered/diluted enough... technically, at least it's possible. even i don't think i'd risk the chance of an embolism. hell, back when i was kicking Nubain in 01, i was breaking open Benedryl capsules "cooking" 2 into about a cc of water, drawing up and injecting IV (without even filtering... i didn't even know about using a little balled up cotton swab to filter at that point), youd be surprised at when you can put in a vein and not just die straight away, kidneys gotta filter that shit though.

gotta consider a lot of what people believe about anabolics is just myth, still. so when guys like Bostin came out and talked about using 13g/wk people called him a liar and said he should be dead. same has gone for anadrol dosages. for years guys believed that if you took more than 100mg anadrol for any longer than 6 wks your liver would fail. Had ANY of them actually done any research, they'd find that 80lb anemic children can be prescribed 300-450mg/day for a MIN of 6-9months (yet underground bbing myth will have a healthy 220lb male bbers liver failing at 100mg for any longer than 6 wks.)

i dont doubt pete used a lot more than a lot of others, but i also dont think guys were as "scientific" with dosages back then. you'd always hear about Arnold saying "we'd debate taking 2 dbol tabs or 3"... dunno if i believe that shit, cuz guys like me or bostin or a thousand others where are curious and not really afraid of side effects (or just reckless) have been around forever and i'm sure Pete isn't the only guy who took anabolics by the "bottle" and not by the "milligram".... however i doubt he took "grams" of something like anadrol (was drol even around in the 70s??) 500mg/day sure, i can believe that... even a gram if he could stand it (some guys fuck up their appetites/stomachs/blood pressure)

I know what the PDR says about the dosages of Anadrol but
I kind of doubt your hypothetical girl would be getting anywhere near that in practise. If you look at BB's post her dosage could be as low as about 35mg a day.

The liver rarely fails outright from anabolics and even cholestasis and jaundice are rare. There is the possibility of peliosis hepatitis, blood filled cysts in the liver, which may cause no symptoms unless they rupture. I've seen a number of guys on forums who had them. Munzer had them. Some of us might have them without knowing.

[pamith]

Why can't people simply be natty like me, gosh

[Matt]

I know what the PDR says about the dosages of Anadrol but
I kind of doubt your hypothetical girl would be getting anywhere near that in practise. If you look at BB's post her dosage could be as low as about 35mg a day.

The liver rarely fails outright from anabolics and even cholestasis and jaundice are rare. There is the possibility of peliosis hepatitis, blood filled cysts in the liver, which may cause no symptoms unless they rupture. I've seen a number of guys on forums who had them. Munzer had them. Some of us might have them without knowing.

I recall reading that someone was on Dianabol for a LONG time - either months or, perhaps I'm thinking Acetaminophen, and only some minor reversible liver damage took place.  That's fascinating, how resilient the liver is.

I think Pete is 73 this year.

[Van_Bilderass]

I recall reading that someone was on Dianabol for a LONG time - either months or, perhaps I'm thinking Acetaminophen, and only some minor reversible liver damage took place.  That's fascinating, how resilient the liver is.

I think Pete is 73 this year.

Some drugs are thought to be very safe, such as acetaminophen. The toxicity is dosage related, it's when someone takes about 4 grams or more in a single dosage that the liver can suddenly fail leading to a horrible death (unless treatment is quickly given).
Friend of mine got hepatitis and jaundice after a trip to Greece and docs said apap was fine to take.

At about 21 yrs old I took Dbol for a year straight, a month or two off and then almost a year on again. Very stupid of me but I had no signs of liver stress.

[honest]

Biggest issue i see with high dose orals from that era or even with orals today is that they destroy your HDL profile, allowing your arteries to harden prematurely, in saying that cardiologists believe this hardening differs from traditional lifestyle plaque type hardening as there seems to be a lack of supporting heart disease factors with high calcium score tests related to ex users. University of california did some great work on the subject many years ago and a lot of the old timers living a lot longer than other more modern bodybuilders would support that. 70 isn't old for everyone but it is for guys like Arnold, Lou, who many predicted to die prematurely from steroids, argument could be made they would have made it ten years longer without maybe.
Liver disease and death was as exaggerated as climate change, sure theres a toxic reaction but it won't destroy your liver in nearly all cases, but pre hardening of the arteries in the heart is certainly a side effect of use, like all thinks worse in those with bad heart genes.

[Humble Narcissist]

Some drugs are thought to be very safe, such as acetaminophen. The toxicity is dosage related, it's when someone takes about 4 grams or more in a single dosage that the liver can suddenly fail leading to a horrible death (unless treatment is quickly given).
Friend of mine got hepatitis and jaundice after a trip to Greece and docs said apap was fine to take.

At about 21 yrs old I took Dbol for a year straight, a month or two off and then almost a year on again. Very stupid of me but I had no signs of liver stress.

How much Dbol did you take per day?

[Van_Bilderass]

How much Dbol did you take per day?

I went up and down, from 10mg to 100mg. Most of the time 50mg. I threw in some Winstrol and Proviron at times and there were a few weeks with a 100mg Anadrol add-on as well. I didn't check but I'm sure liver enzymes would have been elevated. However, after being off a few weeks enzymes were within range.

[Humble Narcissist]

I went up and down, from 10mg to 100mg. Most of the time 50mg. I threw in some Winstrol and Proviron at times and there were a few weeks with a 100mg Anadrol add-on as well. I didn't check but I'm sure liver enzymes would have been elevated. However, after being off a few weeks enzymes were within range.

If you only took 10-50 mg's a day you probably never would have any liver problems at all.

[harmankardon1]

They were, are, great. I think he means the Danabol DS. Anabols were fantastic too, and there was Methandon out of Thailand as well that were top notch.

I have used thousands of each of these as well as half a dozen other Dianabols over 25 years and I'm still alive and liver values are in range. But I never tried 1500 tabs a day, not even a measly 100 tabs 

YUM!!! 

[harmankardon1]

Some drugs are thought to be very safe, such as acetaminophen. The toxicity is dosage related, it's when someone takes about 4 grams or more in a single dosage that the liver can suddenly fail leading to a horrible death (unless treatment is quickly given).
Friend of mine got hepatitis and jaundice after a trip to Greece and docs said apap was fine to take.

At about 21 yrs old I took Dbol for a year straight, a month or two off and then almost a year on again. Very stupid of me but I had no signs of liver stress.

The main concerning effect from the long term use of an oral like imo is on the cardiovascular system long term Hdl at near or zero. Not the liver imo especially a young guy.

The good thing is it was dbol the aromatisation makes it a bit easier on the lipids than winny and Halo etc.

[harmankardon1]

Biggest issue i see with high dose orals from that era or even with orals today is that they destroy your HDL profile, allowing your arteries to harden prematurely, in saying that cardiologists believe this hardening differs from traditional lifestyle plaque type hardening as there seems to be a lack of supporting heart disease factors with high calcium score tests related to ex users. University of california did some great work on the subject many years ago and a lot of the old timers living a lot longer than other more modern bodybuilders would support that. 70 isn't old for everyone but it is for guys like Arnold, Lou, who many predicted to die prematurely from steroids, argument could be made they would have made it ten years longer without maybe.
Liver disease and death was as exaggerated as climate change, sure theres a toxic reaction but it won't destroy your liver in nearly all cases, but pre hardening of the arteries in the heart is certainly a side effect of use, like all thinks worse in those with bad heart genes.

I just saw your post after I posted same thing.... Agree 100%

[Van_Bilderass]

The main concerning effect from the long term use of an oral like imo is on the cardiovascular system long term Hdl at near or zero. Not the liver imo especially a young guy.

The good thing is it was dbol the aromatisation makes it a bit easier on the lipids than winny and Halo etc.

Yes I know. Though we don't know the magnitude of potential damage from periods of low HDL due to steroid use.

For example, see this from a paper on TRT and CVD risk:

HDL particles perform myriad functions, including immunomodulatory roles, the regulation of endothelial cell function and removal of cholesterol from the artery wall through reverse cholesterol transport [52]. HDL particles facilitate reverse cholesterol transport by accepting cholesterol from lipid-laden macrophages in peripheral tissues and transporting it to the liver for excretion in bile. This prevents the deposition of cholesterol in the arterial wall and thereby protects against atherogenesis. Interestingly, in-vitro findings suggest that T could accelerate reverse cholesterol transport [53], and it has been suggested that reductions in HDL-c caused by TRT actually could reflect this accelerated process [54]. This raises the possibility that these reductions in HDL-c do not confer increased CVD risk at all and conceivably could reflect a protective effect 

So the HDL reductions from androgens might not be as damaging as we might think. The picture isn't completely clear.

[joswift]

Biggest issue i see with high dose orals from that era or even with orals today is that they destroy your HDL profile, allowing your arteries to harden prematurely, in saying that cardiologists believe this hardening differs from traditional lifestyle plaque type hardening as there seems to be a lack of supporting heart disease factors with high calcium score tests related to ex users. University of california did some great work on the subject many years ago and a lot of the old timers living a lot longer than other more modern bodybuilders would support that. 70 isn't old for everyone but it is for guys like Arnold, Lou, who many predicted to die prematurely from steroids, argument could be made they would have made it ten years longer without maybe.
Liver disease and death was as exaggerated as climate change, sure theres a toxic reaction but it won't destroy your liver in nearly all cases, but pre hardening of the arteries in the heart is certainly a side effect of use, like all thinks worse in those with bad heart genes.

drugs may knock ten years off your life but they are the worst ten....

[IroNat]

Some drugs are thought to be very safe, such as acetaminophen. The toxicity is dosage related, it's when someone takes about 4 grams or more in a single dosage that the liver can suddenly fail leading to a horrible death (unless treatment is quickly given).
Friend of mine got hepatitis and jaundice after a trip to Greece and docs said apap was fine to take.

At about 21 yrs old I took Dbol for a year straight, a month or two off and then almost a year on again. Very stupid of me but I had no signs of liver stress.

And you had bloodwork done then at age 21?  That's unusual.

[IroNat]

drugs may knock ten years off your life but they are the worst ten....

Which ten? From 50 to 90?

[IroNat]

I just saw your post after I posted same thing.... Agree 100%

Haven't most had serious heart complications including Grymko?  How many of these guys are on lifetime hormone replacement because of hypogonadism so that it they couldn't get their prescription they'd be screwed?

[Humble Narcissist]

Haven't most had serious heart complications including Grymko?  How many of these guys are on lifetime hormone replacement because of hypogonadism so that it they couldn't get their prescription they'd be screwed?

All of them.

[joswift]

Which ten? From 50 to 90?

the last ten...they are always the worst

[oldtimer1]

The drugs of the past obtained from a pharmacy made in an American pharmaceutical lab were powerful. The stuff they say is Dianabol or Anadrol 50 sold from the trunk of a car in the gym parking lot is counterfeit. Probably from China. They are great a counterfeiting the packaging right down to the paper work insert inside the box. The only problem is that they are not authentic. More likely just testosterone. Using just one Anadrol 50 with no other drug had guys blowing up in 4 weeks. Guys that took two had even more drastic results. Guys that took three had the whites of their eyes turn yellow. Today I hear guys popping 4 and 5 pills seeing modest results. Nope, counterfeit.

[joswift]

The drugs of the past obtained from a pharmacy made in an American pharmaceutical lab were powerful. The stuff they say is Dianabol or Anadrol 50 sold from the trunk of a car in the gym parking lot is counterfeit. Probably from China. They are great a counterfeiting the packaging right down to the paper work insert inside the box. The only problem is that they are not authentic. More likely just testosterone. Using just one Anadrol 50 with no other drug had guys blowing up in 4 weeks. Guys that took two had even more drastic results. Guys that took three had the whites of their eyes turn yellow. Today I hear guys popping 4 and 5 pills seeing modest results. Nope, counterfeit.

This

I hear guys now taking a gram of Tren, the old Parabolin from the 90s was 76,mgms in 1.5ml of oil, two a week and you were an emotional wreak with low back pumps that stopped you training

[Humble Narcissist]

The drugs of the past obtained from a pharmacy made in an American pharmaceutical lab were powerful. The stuff they say is Dianabol or Anadrol 50 sold from the trunk of a car in the gym parking lot is counterfeit. Probably from China. They are great a counterfeiting the packaging right down to the paper work insert inside the box. The only problem is that they are not authentic. More likely just testosterone. Using just one Anadrol 50 with no other drug had guys blowing up in 4 weeks. Guys that took two had even more drastic results. Guys that took three had the whites of their eyes turn yellow. Today I hear guys popping 4 and 5 pills seeing modest results. Nope, counterfeit.

Anadrol 50 created the majority of problems we here bodybuilders had like hair loss, flacid pee pee, and heart problems.

[Van_Bilderass]

The drugs of the past obtained from a pharmacy made in an American pharmaceutical lab were powerful. The stuff they say is Dianabol or Anadrol 50 sold from the trunk of a car in the gym parking lot is counterfeit. Probably from China. They are great a counterfeiting the packaging right down to the paper work insert inside the box. The only problem is that they are not authentic. More likely just testosterone. Using just one Anadrol 50 with no other drug had guys blowing up in 4 weeks. Guys that took two had even more drastic results. Guys that took three had the whites of their eyes turn yellow. Today I hear guys popping 4 and 5 pills seeing modest results. Nope, counterfeit.

No that's BS.

There is an absolute shitton of prime hormones coming from China. What's creating these opinions is old guys having poor memories. What you thought of  as "blow up" and "jacked" wasn't as great as you remember. At that time you thought such and such guy was so amazing but if you looked at your photo album from the good old days you'd realise it wasn't that marvelous.
Go watch Pumpin Iron, apart from the crazy aesthetics of the top guys the muscularity is pathetic compared to today. If anyone was using fake drugs it would be the guys in the 70s. No they were using real stuff of course, they just didn't use enough and didn't have as many drugs as today - which come from China!

Secondly, some feel the drugs aren't working as well for them as they once did so the drugs must be fake. What they forget is that they are 20 or 30 years older! They are simply past their prime.

You have made this claim about it all being just being crappy test. This is so retarded on many levels, if you think this is the case you don't know shit. Are you aware that Law Enforcement often test black market steroids when building cases against dealers? You think governments and LE fakes the tests? Are they always dropping cases against dealers because the drugs were fake? If a homebrewer's powders from China are caught at customs are they let off because the powders didn't contain any steroids? Think!

Thirdly, there are still pharma drugs available so guys can compare. I've used Anadrol from pharmacies in Greece and Turkey. I've also used Chinese Anadrol. Guess what, both worked great. I've used many pharma testosterones and many UG labs. Same thing.

Fourth, look at the Mr O lineup. Do they look like they are not on real steroids? Guess what, they use mostly Chinese black market steroids, the same exact shit any kid can buy off the net.

Do you really think the Chinese can't make real hormones? Do you think there's a huge incentive in selling inert stuff?

Yes, some labs cut corners and occasionally sell crap but the fact of the matter is that real hormones is a huge market and real hormones are made.

Do you happen to have any pics of a guy who "blew up" from one Anadrol for a month? Must have been real monsters putting today's pros to shame. Let's see it.

[Van_Bilderass]

Anadrol 50 created the majority of problems we here bodybuilders had like hair loss, flacid pee pee, and heart problems.

Nah that makes it sound like Anadrol is widely abused. No, lots of bodybuilders don't care for that stuff at all, few do it for long periods of time. And I think Anadrol is rather mild in several aspects compared to some other anabolics.

[Van_Bilderass]

One pic is guys using real hormones and one is guys on fake shit, just watered down testosterone. Guess which is which.
Man, Arnold's and Zane's legs really blew up. Must have been that real pharma Anadrol. They look like they are about to pop!