Author Topic: The Covid Emergency is Over  (Read 48047 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #375 on: Today at 02:19:04 PM »

YES - just doing what you always do when you  reply  😊  👍🏻

Yes - just doing what you always do when you reply. If I do it, I learned it from you.

illuminati

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #376 on: Today at 02:25:19 PM »
Yes - just doing what you always do when you reply. If I do it, I learned it from you.


Pathetic & lame reply.
  ::)

Primemuscle

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #377 on: Today at 02:30:34 PM »

Pathetic & lame reply.
  ::)

As is yours.

illuminati

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #378 on: Today at 02:37:25 PM »
As is yours.


Ahhh yes of course  ::)  Not very good at coming up with your own
Original replies, you have to nigh on copy mine.

Primemuscle

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #379 on: Today at 03:00:29 PM »

Ahhh yes of course  ::)  Not very good at coming up with your own
Original replies, you have to nigh on copy mine.

Copying your replies is less of a waste of my time.

Necrosis

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #380 on: Today at 03:46:47 PM »
What are you babbling about?

Providing you with facts and logic. I would like to help you with philosophy as well. PM if interested.

Necrosis

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #381 on: Today at 04:04:19 PM »
Honest questions:

How does a study like this guarantee all participants are given the drug during the "early stage window" which is hypothesized when Ivermectin's viral disrupting mechanism is effective?

Was the dosage consistent across all these studies?  I have read where the dosages were suboptimal in certain cases.

Do you put any validity into real world evidence provide by doctors who treated thousands of patients successfully utilizing ivermectin and other methods - steroids, etc?

Ivermectin has one the best safety profiles in terms of risk.  Why were pharmacies not filling scripts for it even before all these studies were done?  It's a "free shot", and doctors are supposed to try off label uses when other remedies are failing.

So this study isn't really a study, its a meta analysis which is a pooling of all the relevant studies, so basically everything that has been properly researched.

the type of studies were using the same methodology which found ivermectin to be effective as  an anti-parasite medication amongst some other applications. The same method used to show its efficacy vs parasites has been found to show it's inefficacy against viruses. This would make sense of course as these invaders have different replication, agency, replication etc just like an antibiotic doesn't really help virus's.. you can't take penicillin for hiv.

This review is a special type thogh, its the pinnacle of meta analysis for several reasons, one being its very stringent on inclusion criteria and statistical methods used, its more thorough.

The dosage changes, as they do in all studies.


I do put validity into real world application, however, I am very aware of bias and placebo. Placebo can cause massive changes, it's that strong. It can alter stress hormones, immunological function, subjective wellness etc.. it appears when they control for this stuff in the studies, the real benefit of ivermectin is no better than placebo. That's the real benefit of studies like this, if you aren't a science guy, they control independent variables (like placebo by blinding etc), age, dosage to make sure the dependent variable (the actual efficacy of ivermectin) is clear. Even the best of studies can't completely control for things. That's where stats come in. Using statistical analysis studies usually have an alpha level of .01 or .05. What this means is using this mathematical formula the chance of getting the result you got, say ivermectin does work, would be a false positive at a 1 percent or 5 percent rate.

So you can say its highly likely this result, ivermectin works is true and it wasn't something we didnt control like the weather etc. Then you do 25 more studies and if you get the same result consistently your odds go up until its pretty much certain you measured what you think you measured. So in a field where suggestion causes monstrous changes on outcome, in fact like no other field (as we have a mind-body connection) real world results are actually less reliable then science. Vs a craft like carpentry- no amount of belief that wall is level will make it so.

To your last point. There are risks with using off label things in people. Say that person has covid, you give him ivermectin (which I agree is quite safe) he dies (because covid not ivermectin) you just opened yourself up to a malpractice lawsuit and loss of license. So in the absence of evidence even if its safe it's not standard care. That would be the pragmatic answer.

I wish it did work, it would be easy, way fucking cheaper then way pfizer has and a long history to bank on.




Grape Ape

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #382 on: Today at 07:44:31 PM »
So this study isn't really a study, its a meta analysis which is a pooling of all the relevant studies, so basically everything that has been properly researched.

the type of studies were using the same methodology which found ivermectin to be effective as  an anti-parasite medication amongst some other applications. The same method used to show its efficacy vs parasites has been found to show it's inefficacy against viruses. This would make sense of course as these invaders have different replication, agency, replication etc just like an antibiotic doesn't really help virus's.. you can't take penicillin for hiv.

This review is a special type thogh, its the pinnacle of meta analysis for several reasons, one being its very stringent on inclusion criteria and statistical methods used, its more thorough.

The dosage changes, as they do in all studies.

I understood this was an aggregate of studies for sure.  That's what led me to believe there would not be consistency between all of them.  But I legit don't know, hence the question.  I'm still not sure how it could be, or how they got everyone during "the window".......seems impossible.

I do put validity into real world application, however, I am very aware of bias and placebo. Placebo can cause massive changes, it's that strong. It can alter stress hormones, immunological function, subjective wellness etc.. it appears when they control for this stuff in the studies, the real benefit of ivermectin is no better than placebo. That's the real benefit of studies like this, if you aren't a science guy, they control independent variables (like placebo by blinding etc), age, dosage to make sure the dependent variable (the actual efficacy of ivermectin) is clear. Even the best of studies can't completely control for things. That's where stats come in. Using statistical analysis studies usually have an alpha level of .01 or .05. What this means is using this mathematical formula the chance of getting the result you got, say ivermectin does work, would be a false positive at a 1 percent or 5 percent rate.

100% agree on placebo

I was referring to docs who used Ivermectin in large sample sizes and had success/survival rates above the norm.  I don't doubt the studies, however I cannot dismiss this.  I think there needs to be more research.  And, mind you, I'm not this huge "ivermectin surely works" guy, because how the fuck would I know.  I just know there are plenty of real doctors who swear the opposite, and they don't have an agenda.

So you can say its highly likely this result, ivermectin works is true and it wasn't something we didnt control like the weather etc. Then you do 25 more studies and if you get the same result consistently your odds go up until its pretty much certain you measured what you think you measured. So in a field where suggestion causes monstrous changes on outcome, in fact like no other field (as we have a mind-body connection) real world results are actually less reliable then science. Vs a craft like carpentry- no amount of belief that wall is level will make it so.

There are always studies that contradict studies.  And there are studies funded by certain entities to get the results they paid for.  It's why I put no stock in anyone who says "studies show" and don't provide links.  What you posted does seem to be a reasonable sample but like I said earlier, there are plenty of legit docs who say otherwise.


To your last point. There are risks with using off label things in people. Say that person has covid, you give him ivermectin (which I agree is quite safe) he dies (because covid not ivermectin) you just opened yourself up to a malpractice lawsuit and loss of license. So in the absence of evidence even if its safe it's not standard care. That would be the pragmatic answer.

I wish it did work, it would be easy, way fucking cheaper then way pfizer has and a long history to bank on.

Doctors take an oath to provide care at all costs to save a patient.  Fear of lawsuit for use of ivermectin goes against that.

Regardless, pharmacists had no right to deny a doctor prescribing it, and that actually happened.

And that's not why it was vilified.  It was vilified because they needed emergency use exception, and the government really wanted everyone to take the vaccine.
Y

Coach is Back!

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #383 on: Today at 09:16:02 PM »
This is fucked up. The Biden administration made up a law and sued this Doctor for $580 BILLION

https://fb.watch/EVlcm6ZKLi/?mibextid=wwXIfr&fs=e

Dos Equis

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Re: The Covid Emergency is Over
« Reply #384 on: Today at 09:17:17 PM »
Providing you with facts and logic. I would like to help you with philosophy as well. PM if interested.

I'm open-minded and always willing to learn, even from trolls like you.  I will let you know if and when that happens.