Gym Etiquette - Was I Wrong Here?

[Matt]

Great BDB there by MattC

Thank you!

The BDB is my one solid pose - I really hope I can bring it up a level from a cycle. To the point that People seeing it would confuse me for maybe a physique guy off-season.

I'm not saying I'd look like one - but just improve enough where normal people may think I compete.

I have some specific goals for the cycle:

Seated overhead dumbbell presses with 110-lb per hand, for reps, would be one of them.

 

[bhank]

Thank you!

The BDB is my one solid pose - I really hope I can bring it up a level from a cycle. To the point that People seeing it would confuse me for maybe a physique guy off-season.

I'm not saying I'd look like one - but just improve enough where normal people may think I compete.

I have some specific goals for the cycle:

Seated overhead dumbbell presses with 110-lb per hand, for reps, would be one of them.

 

Well it is Sunday you doing this shit or not

[IroNat]

Thank you!

The BDB is my one solid pose - I really hope I can bring it up a level from a cycle. To the point that People seeing it would confuse me for maybe a physique guy off-season.

I'm not saying I'd look like one - but just improve enough where normal people may think I compete.

I have some specific goals for the cycle:

Seated overhead dumbbell presses with 110-lb per hand, for reps, would be one of them.

 

The reality is that people are self-centered and do not care a whit about you.

They are not thinking about you at all.

[Matt]

Well it is Sunday you doing this shit or not

Yep! Just acquired the needles today.

So I will now out of this thread, and post a cycle update thread at some point in the next 28 days.

Can't wait.

[Matt]

The reality is that people are self-centered and do not care a whit about you.

They are not thinking about you at all.

Very true. I'm just looking to do a one-off cycle, and leave it alone for years - if not forever.

Back double biceps picture [flash-off, flash-on] from 40 minutes ago, after my chest workout from tonight:

[webstar]

Matt, what will your diet be for this cycle?

Will it still be the extreme low calories/ ketosis?

How will you get to 185-190 in a deficit?

[Flexacon]

So Matt complained about some thyroid issues or something not too long ago and rather then deal with that first, he plans on jumping on a one off cycle?

This is gonna end well

[Matt]

Matt, what will your diet be for this cycle?

Will it still be the extreme low calories/ ketosis?

How will you get to 185-190 in a deficit?

Roughly 200g protein, 200g carbs, and 75g fats to start.

That's 2,275 total calories - which doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that is 2x my current caloric intake [EDIT].

I will be drinking one gallon a day to start. I'll check the colour of my urine, and ensure I am always drinking enough water to be fully hydrated.

As the cycle goes on, I can ramp up both water and protein/overall calories as I adjust to it.

Presumably, I will be out of ketosis - and hopefully my slow thyroid will correct itself, due to eating more.

[Matt]

So Matt complained about some thyroid issues or something not too long ago and rather then deal with that first, he plans on jumping on a one off cycle?

This is gonna end well

My slow thyroid was determined by high TSH:



So my doctor followed that up by giving me a full thyroid panel to rule out autoimmune disorders, such as Hashimoto's thyroiditis:



The full result proved as a medical certainty that my slow thyroid was exclusively caused by my caloric restriction - and will reverse itself if I just eat more. My doctor suggested +300 calories daily, but I intend to go much higher than that, for the purposes of this cycle.

I hate eating. But I'll do it for this cycle.

A caloric deficit will definitely slow your thyroid down in a matter of weeks

^ Rambone was right.

B. Hank was also right - I don't have a slow thyroid - it just slowed from caloric restriction.

[Matt]

So Matt complained about some thyroid issues or something not too long ago and rather then deal with that first, he plans on jumping on a one off cycle?

This is gonna end well

I dealt with it by getting a second blood test full thyroid panel, and determining that I have no thyroid issues. 

I just don't eat enough - so my thyroid will get back up to normal speed if I just start eating like a normal person.

Which I hate, but...I'll do that for the 16 week course of this cycle.

 

[webstar]

Very true. I'm just looking to do a one-off cycle, and leave it alone for years - if not forever.

Back double biceps picture [flash-off, flash-on] from 40 minutes ago, after my chest workout from tonight:

Feel free to use this and adjust the macros.

I used this when I was under Dennis James’s tutelage.

Supplements:
Multivitamins and Minerals 2 x aday with M#1 and M#6.
100mg sustained release B-Complex with breakfast only.
1000mg vitamin C,  with M#1 and M#6.
400IU vitamin E, with M#1 and M#6.
Q10, 50mg with M#1 and M#6. 

 off season diet and supps start September 10th 2017

Diet:
6-6.30am upon rising do 2 units of GH and 1000mg HMB when taken GH
40g whey isolate plus 1 banana.

3 days a week have 1 black coffee, 1 baby aspirin, 5gr Bcaas and 5g Glutamine with the whey isolate but without the banana. Wait 30min and so 30min high intensity cardio.


10min before meal 1
2000mg CLA
1000mg L Carnitine

1.   8am  6oz chicken  2 whole eggs, 1 1/2cups Oatmeal with some raisins
1glass any juice you like.
Digestive enzymes.


9am Training
Intra workout ( during training)have 15g bcaa's and 35g vitargo

2.   10.30-11am Immediately after training have 60g whey isolate, 10g Glutamine, 5gr creatine and 50g vitargo


Between meal 2 & 3
5grams of Leucine
5000mg L-Arginine
600mg NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine


3.   12pm  8oz chicken, 2cups white rice ( cooked)
2000mg CLA
1000mg L-Carnitine
Digestive enzymes

4.   3pm 8oz chicken, 12oz potato, 1 cup veggies( anything green like asparagus, broccoli,green beans, spinach or salad)
1 tablespoon MCT oil


10min before meal 5
2000mg CLA
1000mg L Carnitine
 

5.    6pm  8oz steak, 1 1/2cups brown rice
Digestive enzymes


Between meal 5 & 6
5grams of Leucine
5000mg L-Arginine
600mg NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine

do 2 units of GH and 1000mg HMB when taken GH



6.    9pm  10oz white fish, 8oz potato, 1 cup veggies
Digestive enzymes



Gear:
Sustanon  250mg Monday, Wednesday and Friday


EQ  200g  Mo, Wed and Friday

Dbol 10mg with meal 1/2/3/4/5

1 tab 25mg Proviron with meal 1

1 tab 1/2mg Arimidex  every other day with meal 5

GH 2iu's first thing in the morning and 2i.u's between meal 5&6



Supplements:
Multivitamins and Minerals 2 x aday with M#1 and M#6.
100mg sustained release B-Complex with breakfast only.
1000mg vitamin C,  with M#1 and M#6.
400IU vitamin E, with M#1 and M#6.
Q10, 50mg with M#1 and M#6. 




Disclaimer:
In the e-mail above, I'm only stating my opinions from my personal experience as a professional bodybuilder. I do not, in any way, shape or form use, encourage, nor condone the use of any illegal or controlled substances. If you decide to use any please consult a licensed practitioner before you do so.


The Menace Enterprises, Inc

President
Dennis James

[Matt]

Feel free to use this and adjust the macros.

I used this when I was under Dennis James’s tutelage.

Supplements:
Multivitamins and Minerals 2 x aday with M#1 and M#6.
100mg sustained release B-Complex with breakfast only.
1000mg vitamin C,  with M#1 and M#6.
400IU vitamin E, with M#1 and M#6.
Q10, 50mg with M#1 and M#6. 

 off season diet and supps start September 10th 2017

Diet:
6-6.30am upon rising do 2 units of GH and 1000mg HMB when taken GH
40g whey isolate plus 1 banana.

3 days a week have 1 black coffee, 1 baby aspirin, 5gr Bcaas and 5g Glutamine with the whey isolate but without the banana. Wait 30min and so 30min high intensity cardio.


10min before meal 1
2000mg CLA
1000mg L Carnitine

1.   8am  6oz chicken  2 whole eggs, 1 1/2cups Oatmeal with some raisins
1glass any juice you like.
Digestive enzymes.


9am Training
Intra workout ( during training)have 15g bcaa's and 35g vitargo

2.   10.30-11am Immediately after training have 60g whey isolate, 10g Glutamine, 5gr creatine and 50g vitargo


Between meal 2 & 3
5grams of Leucine
5000mg L-Arginine
600mg NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine


3.   12pm  8oz chicken, 2cups white rice ( cooked)
2000mg CLA
1000mg L-Carnitine
Digestive enzymes

4.   3pm 8oz chicken, 12oz potato, 1 cup veggies( anything green like asparagus, broccoli,green beans, spinach or salad)
1 tablespoon MCT oil


10min before meal 5
2000mg CLA
1000mg L Carnitine
 

5.    6pm  8oz steak, 1 1/2cups brown rice
Digestive enzymes


Between meal 5 & 6
5grams of Leucine
5000mg L-Arginine
600mg NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine

do 2 units of GH and 1000mg HMB when taken GH



6.    9pm  10oz white fish, 8oz potato, 1 cup veggies
Digestive enzymes



Gear:
Sustanon  250mg Monday, Wednesday and Friday


EQ  200g  Mo, Wed and Friday

Dbol 10mg with meal 1/2/3/4/5

1 tab 25mg Proviron with meal 1

1 tab 1/2mg Arimidex  every other day with meal 5

GH 2iu's first thing in the morning and 2i.u's between meal 5&6



Supplements:
Multivitamins and Minerals 2 x aday with M#1 and M#6.
100mg sustained release B-Complex with breakfast only.
1000mg vitamin C,  with M#1 and M#6.
400IU vitamin E, with M#1 and M#6.
Q10, 50mg with M#1 and M#6. 




Disclaimer:
In the e-mail above, I'm only stating my opinions from my personal experience as a professional bodybuilder. I do not, in any way, shape or form use, encourage, nor condone the use of any illegal or controlled substances. If you decide to use any please consult a licensed practitioner before you do so.


The Menace Enterprises, Inc

President
Dennis James

^ What is the total protein and total calories there?

Right now, I should be making a 60g protein shake...I can honestly say I'd rather work twice as long in the gym than eat so much...but I want to maximize my cycle gains, so...I'm ALL IN.

[bhank]

^ What is the total protein and total calories there?

Right now, I should be making a 60g protein shake...I can honestly say I'd rather work twice as long in the gym than eat so much...but I want to maximize my cycle gains, so...I'm ALL IN.

Did you take a shot yet or not?

[MCWAY]

Do you think someone can attain a physique like this without generally knowing the necessary tricks and tips to make progress in the gym?:



Do you think a person could bench press 315 for reps without having a solid understanding of how to work out, and what their generic potential may be, etc?

The literature is pretty clear that progressive is maximized on roughly 1g of protein per 1-lb of lean body mass. So at ~180, I probably have 145-lb of LBM. Maybe more - maybe a bit less.

That means I would need 160g of protein daily to make progress. Let's call it 200g daily JUST TO BE SURE.

Also, consider that protein can only be synthesized at a certain rate, and only up to around 48g of protein can be synthesized from one meal.

Which means I would want to be having AT LEAST four meals a day with ~50g of protein per meal, if not more meals, with slightly less protein per meal to both get that target quantity of protein AND to synthesize it.

Next, I would want to focus on slow and controlled reps, the mind-muscle connection, and other principles of bodybuilding/hypertrophy training, rather than focus on strength or anything else.

^ THAT nutrition and training outline will roughly maximize ANY natural's bodybuilding potential, MCWAY. The literature is exceedingly clear on this point, and my experience tells me the literature is right, as I just gain fat if I attempt to eat more protein than that.

Take that "literature"; toss it in a corner; pour gasoline on it; and set it on fire, because it is utter BULL.....as far as you and I are concerned.

Some of you have heard this account from me years ago:

When I replicated my high school science project (which was eating to gain weight and build muscle) in college, I bumped up my calories and protein significantly. The goal was to reach 200 lbs by the end of spring semester, starting at 189. Protein-wise, it was 1.5 g per lb of bodyweight and 4500-5000 calories, overall.

Outside of regular food, it was just Mega Mass 2000 and GNC Milk & Egg or Soy protein (whichever was cheaper at the time). I exceeded my goal. I wanted 200 lbs. I hit that on March 20, 1996.....a day I will never forget . But, I still had a month and half to go before semester's end.

When I left for summer break.....I was 210 lbs. And speaking of benching 315 for reps, I started to do that after just a year earlier barely being able to budge 300 even.

So, whoever told you that maximum potential is realized eating 1 g or protein per lean pound of bodyweight, I believe he needs to suffer the same fate as the guy who started separating egg whites from the yolks.

I exceeded my expectations, no needles required.

But here's the thing: I HAVE APPLIED THOSE PRINCIPLES RELIGIOUSLY FOR MONTHS ON END. Over a year, really. I have never stayed on those principles for YEARS [plural], because I know EXACTLY how LITTLE muscle I gain by doing so, and I saw NO benefit to working so hard for such little progress because, as I said, natural bodybuilding SUCKS!

Again, change your "principles", because those SUCK. You don't get brownie points for "working so hard" or "religiously", if you continue to do things that are no longer effective. Had you changed your diet, your results may have come much faster.

MCWAY - did you ever stop and wonder why EVERYONE WHO IS SERIOUSLY DEDICATED TO BODYBUILDING IS ON JUICE??

NOBODY, even at my level of Strongman, is clean. Even the 176-lb'er's are on juice! Probably 80% of them. At EVERY LOCAL CONTEST I competed in - everyone was on juice! Maybe one guy wasn't [check YouTube for Jeff Nason - supposedly, he's clean].

And you know DAMN WELL that I know what I'm doing well enough to MAXIMIZE my cycle results. So why are you talking me out of it?

No, you don't know what you're doing. Even the guys here who use anabolics have told you that on more than one occasion. They have stated, as have I, that you need to dot your I's and cross your "T's with your training and nutrition, first and foremost. This way, you can make progress while you await the oh-so-sacred-stack-of steroids. Then, you can make even better gains afterwards.

Some juicers don't want me to use because they know DAMN WELL that steroids are massive, and they would rather me think that they are genetic freaks or have a better work ethic - or BOTH - and know that I will realize they are frauds if I juiced and saw for myself how much they help.

But why do you as a clean athlete want me to not use? Is it because you think it lends credibility to your own decision not to juice? If not, why? Is it because you think steroids are dangerous? They are STEROIDS, MCWAY. NOT diuretics! Not some other shady industry chemical agent. STEROIDS - TRIED, TESTED, AND TRUE.

Sustanon and Anadrol have been around for DECADES. And there is no reason to worry about the danger of either, given how much knowledge we have on both.

So what exactly is your concern? I told you - I'm not going to spend over a YEAR training and eating perfectly to get the same outcome this cycle could bring me in four months, because:

[1] It will take at least 18 months.
[2] Even THEN, the results won't be as good!
[3] I don't have the motivation to partake in the mundane monotony of eating 4-6 bodybuilding meals a day for 18 months. Most people can't handle the TRAINING to be a bodybuilder. I have OBVIOUSLY PROVEN I can handle the training. What I can't handle is the eating - eating ENOUGH. And I have no interest in following a BB diet for YEARS - which you are saying may not even work even if I do everything right. WHICH I AGREE WITH - BECAUSE I HAVE APPLIED THOSE PRINCIPLES COUNTLESS TIMES, AND I KNOW THE PROGRESS SUCKS.

Again, it's the Randy-Orton voices in your head that make you think some secret cabal is trying to deny you of your precious 'roids.

Listen to what you just posted on #3. You're not making a lick of sense. One minute, you're bragging about strong you are and how good of a strongman you can be without steroids. But, to be a bodybuilder, you don't have a clue or you keep stubbornly/foolishly following a failed strategy.

You can't handle "eating enough"? Neither could I....at first. That's why we have BLENDERS. That diet of my from college in 1996 consisted of a dozen eggs and at least a quart of milk per day. Boiling the eggs stunk up my room; scrambling them (and not eating them immediately) became unbearable. So, it was six eggs and two cups of milk for one shake; the other six eggs and two cups of milk before bed.

And that's EXACTLY why I am going to CHEAT by TAKING STEROIDS. Because I don't want to put the time in EATING. In the end, it will just be a faster way to get to the same physique level. Again, I have ZERO INTEREST in even spending eight months to make the same gains as I will from four months of juice.

And I will NOT make the same progress in eight months naturally.
 
Then post a picture. *I* have proven ALL of my lifts/claims.

Only when I got to #18 in my weight class in Canada on my first try did I realize how utterly full of shit people. Yet for years, I was reading comments making it sound like anyone at my level is some common thing. Even those not being critical. You aren't being critical - but reading your comments, I should spend the next five years "building a base" before juicing, when in reality, I'm UNQUESTIONABLY in the top 1% of strength and physique aesthetics as it is.

IF SOMEONE IN THE TOP 1% OF GYM GOERS SHOULDN'T USE STEROIDS, THEN WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK SHOULD USE IT?

I've just spent two fucking years dealing with my government breaking the law over a 99.9% survivable virus, with gyms here closed for 500+ days. I spent 6.5 months of last year in legal action communication with the police, and had the longest layoff from the gym in my life.

I have NO INTEREST in natural training. I have been feeling vastly improved since the gym has reopened, and after living through the darkest period of my life, I will NOT let the momentum die off.

Juice will keep it going, and keep my motivation to feel alive.

I don't want to make progress naturally right now when I could do everything you say and make 3x that progress while on steroids.

I have NO MOTIVATION to do this naturally. Before the gyms closing again in January, my gym owner allowed me to train without a "vaccine passport". I spent my first six months back eating PERFECTLY. Six months is not nothing, MCWAY. And I've done that many times before.

So I know DAMN WELL how little muscle I would gain doing this naturally. I know DAMN WELL how slowly I would make those gains.

And THAT is why I'm not doing that!

I got off my "bro" diet in January, because the fucking gyms closed again. 

But even if gyms did not close, I don't even have motivation to keep doing everything perfectly, because the gains suck! My motivation to EAT ENOUGH always dwindles after so many months for this reason.

And THAT is why I'm a natural STRONGMAN, MCWAY.

NOT a bodybuilder.

Because I HATE the nutrition / eating enough part.

MCWAY - did you know I am on under 100g carbs daily? Not temporarily - ALWAYS.

I am ALWAYS in ketosis, MCWAY.

See the results below - proof that I am just SLIGHTLY in ketosis, as determined by the ketones in my urine.

So CLEARLY I have proven I can follow a highly strict diet. In fact, my thyroid SLOWED from eating so little!

It's eating ENOUGH that I hate. I hate the shopping, I hate the cooking, and I hate the eating. I hate ALL of it! And for natural gains - it's unbearable!

But can I handle doing everything right for 16 weeks?

Absolutely!

And - I have 176-lb Strongman contests to compete in, in the fall or new year. So I'm not bulking up naturally, because I need to make weight by then.

I have NO INTEREST in natural bodybuilding, MCWAY.

You also seem to think I want to look like this long-term. I don't. I mean - maybe if I like how I look, I may just ramp up my nutrition post-cycle, to look the same. But I don't want to go up a weight class.

If I DO like how I look - then maybe I WILL do the natural nutrition techniques you speak of. But maybe I didn't make it clear that I don't want to look like this. Just for her summer.

You know - it goes to -40°F here in the winter! So since I'll be covered up all winter, I just want to look like this in the summer.

I don't believe I can achieve what I want in any less than a year. And I have a u-80kg Strongman contest in January. And that's why ANYONE uses steroids, MCWAY - to get to a particular physique level FASTER or MORE EFFICIENTLY than they otherwise could.

Anyway, you have never proven your strength OR shown your physique level on here. If you are natural, my guess is that you more or less suck.

I could walk into any gym in my city every hour on the hour for the next five years, and I'd be the strongest person in any of them 90% of the time. And those aren't normal people - those are the ones who TRAIN.

People are massively full of shit on message boards.

And EVERYONE in an industry that benefits from steroids, is on steroids. Certainly under 20% of people training at my level regularly have never used.

My physique has nothing to do with you; nor does yours have anything to do with me.

But, you've validated what I suspected from the start: You want the syringe to compensate for a sorry diet and haphazard training.

Exhibit A:

Roughly 200g protein, 200g carbs, and 75g fats to start.

That's 2,275 total calories - which doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that is 3x my current caloric intake.

I will be drinking one gallon a day to start. I'll check the colour of my urine, and ensure I am always drinking enough water to be fully hydrated.

As the cycle goes on, I can ramp up both water and protein/overall calories as I adjust to it.

Presumably, I will be out of ketosis - and hopefully my slow thyroid will correct itself, due to eating more.

By my math, that's about 750 calories a day that you currently consume. Hmmm!! I wonder why you're struggling.

For all your talk about how many bodybuilders use steroids, you conveniently left out those same bodybuilders routinely eat enough to feed a family of 5 (with leftovers to spare) on a daily basis. But, don't take my word for it:

That's what I learned. Anabolics or no anabolics, if you want SIZE, you have to pack away the groceries.....PERIOD.

Or, to borrow from the aforementioned 8-time Mr. O, "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder; but don't nobody wanna EAT no HEAVY-@$$ FOOD!!"

Thank you!

The BDB is my one solid pose - I really hope I can bring it up a level from a cycle. To the point that People seeing it would confuse me for maybe a physique guy off-season.

I'm not saying I'd look like one - but just improve enough where normal people may think I compete.

I have some specific goals for the cycle:

Seated overhead dumbbell presses with 110-lb per hand, for reps, would be one of them.

 

Been there; done that! Save your joints for the strongman stuff. Barbells are safer, such as seated barbell presses 225-230 (which I do now). Jacking the dumbbells in the launch position (as it were) is a pain....figurately and sometimes LITERALLY!!

[Matt]

Take that "literature"; toss it in a corner; pour gasoline on it; and set it on fire, because it is utter BULL.....as far as you and I are concerned.

Some of you have heard this account from me years ago:

When I replicated my high school science project (which was eating to gain weight and build muscle) in college, I bumped up my calories and protein significantly. The goal was to reach 200 lbs by the end of spring semester, starting at 189. Protein-wise, it was 1.5 g per lb of bodyweight and 4500-5000 calories, overall.

Outside of regular food, it was just Mega Mass 2000 and GNC Milk & Egg or Soy protein (whichever was cheaper at the time). I exceeded my goal. I wanted 200 lbs. I hit that on March 20, 1996.....a day I will never forget . But, I still had a month and half to go before semester's end.

When I left for summer break.....I was 210 lbs. And speaking of binching 315 for reps, I started to do that after just a year earlier barely being able to budge 300 even.

So, whoever told you that maximum potential is realized eating 1 g or protein per lean pound of bodyweight, I believe he needs to suffer the same fate as the guy who started separating egg whites from the yolks.

I exceeded my expectations, no needles required.

Again, change your "principles", because those SUCK. You don't get brownie points for "working so hard" or "religiously", if you continue to do things that are no longer effective. Had you changed your diet, your results may have come much faster.

No, you don't know what you're doing. Even the guys here who use anabolics have told you that on more than one occasion. They have stated, as have I, that you need to dot your I's and cross your "T's with your training and nutrition, first and foremost. This way, you can make progress while you await the oh-so-sacred-stack-of steroids. Then, you can make even better gains afterwards.

Again, it's the Randy-Orton voices in your head that make you think some secret cabal is trying to deny you of your precious 'roids.

Listen to what you just posted on #3. You're not making a lick of sense. One minute, you're bragging about strong you are and how good of a strongman you can be without steroids. But, to be a bodybuilder, you don't have a clue or you keep stubbornly/foolishly following a failed strategy.

You can't handle "eating enough"? Neither could I....at first. That's why we have BLENDERS. That diet of my from college in 1996 consisted of a dozen eggs and at least a quart of milk per day. Boiling the eggs stunk up my room; scrambling them (and not eating them immediately) became unbearable. So, it was six eggs and two cups of milk for one shake; the other six eggs and two cups of milk before bed.

My physique has nothing to do with you; nor does yours have anything to do with me.

But, you've validated what I suspected from the start: You want the syringe to compensate for a sorry diet and haphazard training.

Exhibit A:

By my math, that's about 750 calories a day that you currently consume. Hmmm!! I wonder why you're struggling.

For all your talk about how many bodybuilders use steroids, you conveniently left out those same bodybuilder routinely eat enough to feed a family of 5 (with leftovers to spare) on a daily basis. But, don't take my word for it:

Been there; done that! Save your joints for the strongman stuff. Barbells are safer, such as seated barbell presses 225-230 (which I do now). Jacking the dumbbells in the launch position (as it were) is a pain....figurately and sometimes LITERALLY!!

I made a slight error, that I corrected/edited in my previous post - 2,275 calories is roughly 2x my current intake.

Again, my cycle diet will comprise:

200g protein, 200g carbs, and 75g fats daily, to start.

I hate eating, and I have no interest in eating that much in the long term. I will do it solely for this cycle.

You seem to think that I don't know how I need to eat to maximize natural gains - I know how...it's that I HATE IT. And I'm not going to eat that much and make gains at a snail's pace. That's why I'm a competitive lightweight Strongman, because I didn't need to shove protein and calories down my throat to make gains.

Again - it's not that I don't know what I need to eat - it's that I don't WANT to be a natural bodybuilder. I want to just to this cycle, and maximize all my nutrition EXCLUSIVELY for this cycle.

And then go back to eating like a bird, and be ready to compete at u-80kg for the Fall or new year Strongman season.

I have no interest in spending a year making the gains you say I can get doing this naturally, because I have lightweight Strongman contests to compete in, during the time that I would be natural bulking, on your plan.

I'm not a bodybuilder, MCWAY. I'm just doing this for the summer. The. It's back to lightweight Strongman competition, which I've done for years.

Perhaps you are forgetting that I'm not a bodybuilder, nor do I want to be - it's just for this summer. And I can't do it on that timeline without PED's.

I'm not wasting a year on this project.

[Matt]

Matt,
Are you interested in natural training and what are your reasons either way?

Every time I saw a bodybuilder with 20 years of sauce in him, go back to looking like he never picked up a weight in his life, literally within 1-3 years of getting off the juice completely, I realized how fake bodybuilding was.

If it was just a matter of training hard and consistently, I'd have no problem with that - but, IMO, the nutrition requirements are twice as much work. On top of that, even if you do everything right as a natural, you won't go very far.

I have ways primarily been interested in natural training. I don't want to train on juice as a regular thing - just as a one-off cycle to confirm what I know, about how much bigger and leaner I will be while using them.

That will just confirm the potential I had, HAD I opted to juice. Once I have that confirmation, I will just go back to training naturally.

Think about this - I look like this, and have bench pressed 315x8, having never training as a bodybuilder, and did so only eating around 1,000 calories a day.

I ate so little, that my thyroid slowed down - and this is still how Iooked - I strongly suspect I would have looked much better eating 2-3x that many calories, and using juice while training like a bodybuilder, using slow and controlled repetitions.

I'm quite confident about that. And this cycle will prove that.

Since my start weight is 183, I'm thinking of hitting 213. A 30-lb gain is pretty standard for a quality first cycle. And since it's been over half a decade since I even touched an oral, my receptors are very fresh.

I'm looking forward to the outcome. 

[Matt]

Regarding protein, I think you need to look at Milos training log again.  Pay attention to how many calories and how many grams of protein he's eating in a day.  The body can synthesize much more that 50g of protein per meal.

Regarding your training, you've picked up some bad habits.  The form you're using on some of your lifts is just asking for injury.  The nice thing about bodybuilding is the risk of injury is much lower than power lifting or strong man.

On your Instagram you show that you can bench 250-lb bench press for 18 reps, which is impressive and I could not do the same.  My chest is probably my weakest body part muscular development wise, but it's probably better than yours mainly because my training is purely focused on building muscle.  I do two different angles of incline bench on the smith machine and usually do a drop set.  I use the dip machine for lower pec. 

I'm always amazed when I see people in the gym who are stronger than me but don't have the build I have.  For example, there's a guy at my gym that can squat three plates a side on the smith machine for six reps, which I don't think I could do, but my legs are better than his because I'm training and dieting smarter. 

You train hard and heavy, but you don't train smart.  You're diet was holding you back, but your training style was too. 

Do I think someone can attain a physique like Yours without generally knowing the necessary tricks and tips to make progress in the gym?  Yes.  You are proof of that. 

On Instagram you show a two rep leg press with eight plates a side.  Let's see the 12 rep and 15 rep with a lower weight.

https://www.instagram.com/matthew_thunderbay/?hl=en

You're biggest problem is you ego lift and care how much weight your moving.  Try training without the ego.  Build, don't lift. 

Take note on Robcguns workouts.  Note the reps and the sets.  You don't have to train with that kind of crazy volume, but you would be amazed at the results if you did.

Thank you, Palumboism.

My normal workout is 12 total sets, comprising three exercises.

For each of the three exercises, I do two warmup sets, and two heavy sets.

Now I've decided that I'm going to adjust that training program, to make it strictly in the bodybuilding/hypertrophy rep range of 8-12+.

I WILL allow myself *one* heavy set per workout. So I'll pick an exercise, and on my last set, I'll make it heavy - but even then, it will be in the bodybuilding range:

The go will be to lift my heaviest set for eight reps, selected in a way that I may not be able to get all eight reps. So if I can only get 5-6-7 to total failure, that's fine.

But EVERYTHING else must be 8-12+ reps with perfect, slow and controlled form. All bodybuilding.

For example, today, I did the pec deck fly machine for chest, as my final exercise. For my final set of flies, I did the whole stack [200-lb]. But as you can clearly see, my form went downhill, and I had to use Body English to get the last couple of reps:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ceu2iJgAyiP/

^ So next time if I do that same exercise as my one heavy set, it will probably be with 180-lb, and eight reps with perfect, controlled form.

I think it's going to take me a solid two weeks of adjusting to bodybuilding-style training - but once I reprogram my muscle memory...I think it will be cake from there. 

[Matt]

That's right Shiz, you're a pure bottom. Don't let these guys straighten you out one inch.

What's the backstory with King Shizzo? Is King Shizzo the eminent classic Getbigger Alex23 - one of the biggest guys on Getbig around 8-12 years ago!

[Matt]

I don't really need to say more. The ego on this autistic fruitcake to think anyone wants to read paragraphs and paragraphs of his  posts from here.

ChristopherA [Chris] - my affinity towards detail has been noted. I'll work on a solution to keep a grip on it. I'm making an exception here because this is a once in a decade thing for me - and I don't want to mess anything up. I want to maximize all gains here.

As for any beef you have for me - just know it's one sided my man. If you want to carry on, that's fine. But my suggestion would just be to squash it - and I will try to reduce post-count moving forward.

Frankly, I just want the resident board knowledgeable freaks to help me maximize this cycle. I'm literally getting the best advice possible here - and I'm getting it for free. Can't beat that.

[bhank]

Answer the question did you start the cycle yet YES or NO?

[GymnJuice]

Answer the question did you start the cycle yet YES or NO?

Which will happen first? Matt answers a question with a simple yes or no? Or you squat 405 lbs?

[wes]

Answer the question did you start the cycle yet YES or NO?

You better get off the board before you`re late for work.....don`t forget the nutrient rich Gatorade which contributes to your water weight, cuz you`ll be shrinking by the week without it........ it`s,not like you`re a mass monster anyway.  LOL 

Now get to work....hurry........... RUN FORREST RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111  LOL 

[Rambone]

100 pages easily

[Gym-Rat]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ceu2iJgAyiP/

Matt, they let people train in the gym w/ out a shirt?

Some HS kids came in recently, took off their shirts, etc. Owner came over, told them to put them back on. (dudes weighed about a buck-20)...
And then he hung some signs in the gym about wearing them at all times.   (Just curious).

[Grape Ape]

only 3 more back shots on this page today