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Author Topic: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?  (Read 37861 times)
thisiskeith12
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« Reply #350 on: May 04, 2006, 11:48:50 PM »

True about the football thing they cannot play for another organization.  But also true is the NFL and others pay their members allot of money.  The teams pay them and so does the NFL.  And when you are cut you have a contract and the team has to pay that contract off or find a team that will take it over.  In all pro sports you comepte for money.  Boxing is an individual sport.  Boxers box in other federations all the time.  In fact they unify the belts from all the major federations.  What determines where a fighter is going to fight is the promoter and the money.  They can basically go anywhere they want. 

How about an IFBB pro guest posing at a PDI event.  No way in the world can the IFBB stop this.  They wuld be in court in a heartbeat and lose their ass off.  That is a fact.  They could no way stop that.

Actually in the NFL it's just the team owners cutting the players their checks. However, league revenue is divided amongst all teams to their owners.
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #351 on: May 04, 2006, 11:50:00 PM »

But he is the IFBB athletes rep. He is supposed to help IFBB bodybuilders, not PDI bodybuilders.

and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.
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« Reply #352 on: May 04, 2006, 11:50:08 PM »

If the IFBB wakes up, the PDI is gone. The IFBB has so many tools to help generate more money around it, but it seems like no one is working on that. All it does is collect money from athletes and promoters.

Point of the year here!  Bravo!

Is the IFBB listening, or will they just pay some lip service that "We respect the fans and will work to make this year's O the best ever blah blah..."?
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LuciusFox
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« Reply #353 on: May 04, 2006, 11:50:44 PM »

and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.

 Exactly, the bodybuilders need a united front!
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Ron
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« Reply #354 on: May 04, 2006, 11:53:33 PM »

Quote
How about an IFBB pro guest posing at a PDI event.  No way in the world can the IFBB stop this.  They wuld be in court in a heartbeat and lose their ass off.  That is a fact.  They could no way stop that.

Now that is interesting. If an IFBB pro guest poses at another event, and wears the IFBB sweatshirt with IFBB sweatpants, and is clearly promoting the IFBB, can he get in trouble for that? Not sure.

Quote
and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.


No. Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. He cannt represent other federations, not Nabba, not Natural bodybuilders, not whoever.  It is not his position. He can advise to them, but he is the IFBB Athletes rep. I thought that was pretty clear, considering he is in the IFBB.

Quote
Actually in the NFL it's just the team owners cutting the players their checks. However, league revenue is divided amongst all teams to their owners.

Which is why it is better to compare bodybuilding with individual athlete competitions.
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #355 on: May 04, 2006, 11:53:39 PM »

Point of the year here!  Bravo!

Is the IFBB listening, or will they just pay some lip service that "We respect the fans and will work to make this year's O the best ever blah blah..."?

I just saw on ABC the other day a report about how weight loss supplements ALONE generate over $1.6 Billion a year, now add other supplements to that, plus the magazine sales of Flex M&F and MD, and you should have a fairly large number. A number that if distributed to benefit all, would not only grow the sport as a whole, but also you can bank on a damn good investment you are making. Money talks...
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« Reply #356 on: May 04, 2006, 11:56:57 PM »

I can't believe how many professional Bbers- who work harder than many other athletes in other sports- scrimp to get by.  I am a businessman and I talk to them all the time.  They're all looking for answers, for sponsors, for some crumbs.  As much as I am an internet troll, I might easily out-earn many of them, as do many of us here.  It's really sad. 

There is zero profit sharing.  And there should be.
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #357 on: May 04, 2006, 11:57:25 PM »



No. Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. He cannt represent other federations, not Nabba, not Natural bodybuilders, not whoever.  It is not his position. He can advise to them, but he is the IFBB Athletes rep. I thought that was pretty clear, considering he is in the IFBB.

Which is why it is better to compare bodybuilding with individual athlete competitions.

I mean IFBB athletes. But he needs more support. Ron, do you think you could face the heads of the IFBB alone? No. And neither can Bob. He needs more support.

I understand bodybuilding is an individual sport, but why not get a few select cities that have a high volume of fans, and make this cities focal points of contests. Get rid of the Toronto Pros, which I know they did, and any others that aren't generating enough attention nor attendance nor excitement.
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« Reply #358 on: May 04, 2006, 11:57:50 PM »

COrrect- BUT it's not being run correctly and no change seems to be coming.  Most of the guys in this multi-million dollar industry are living on the edge of the law and check to check.  They are not being rewarded for their sacrifices.

You have to seperate professional bodybuilding from the multi-million dollar supplement industry. The vast majority of people who train and take supplements have absolutely no interest in pro bodybuilding. I know a hardcore gym with over 1000 members in London that was not able to sell 20 tickets to the British GP held 10 miles away.

As much as I'd like to see the sport grow, in it's current state it's reached it's peak, and you only have to look at the falling attendance and failure of shows to see that the interestest is falling.

The Arnold Weekend has grown into one of the largest sporting events in the world but the bodybuilding event only attracts the same number of people as it did 10 years ago. If Arnold can't pull them in, nobody can.

Competiotion between Walmart and Target is good for employees and consumers because the profit margins are so huge that the companies can absorb increased costs. Show promoters do not have that luxury. Limited demand from fans, means limited support from sponsors.

The majority of people who read bodybuilding magazines are not interested in the competions thenselves only the athletes physiques.

The Ironman Show is held in the body image capital of the world but can't sell out despite it being an established show and recieveing plenty of advertising.

A proliferation of new federations is not going to improve the financial earning capacity of the athletes because it't not going to put more fans on seats.








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LuciusFox
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« Reply #359 on: May 05, 2006, 12:00:48 AM »

I can't believe how many professional Bbers- who work harder than many other athletes in other sports- scrimp to get by.  I am a businessman and I talk to them all the time.  They're all looking for answers, for sponsors, for some crumbs.  As much as I am an internet troll, I might easily out-earn many of them, as do many of us here.  It's really sad. 

There is zero profit sharing.  And there should be.

 It would be interesting to know how important sponsored bodybuilders are to supplement sales.
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« Reply #360 on: May 05, 2006, 12:00:58 AM »

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #361 on: May 05, 2006, 12:01:08 AM »


The majority of people who read bodybuilding magazines are not interested in the competions thenselves only the athletes physiques.


The readers of these magazines don't get the stories, they don't hear these guys talking, and they don't see them interacting or at shows. Some still picture isn't going to make them want to go to a competition, you gotta sell a little harder than that.
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LuciusFox
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« Reply #362 on: May 05, 2006, 12:02:55 AM »

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!


  But that is unfortunately where bodybuilding is at Undecided
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #363 on: May 05, 2006, 12:03:23 AM »

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!

Get supplement companies to pay for ads just like the NFL gets ad revenue, and use it to better the league division or federation or whatever you want to call it. Use the money for prettier stage setups, put it back into the system and eventually it will start running like a well oiled transmission and you can ride the wave.
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« Reply #364 on: May 05, 2006, 12:04:05 AM »

Also, fewer shows would benefit things. We have what, 14 or 16 IFBB events this year?  

All parties would be better served with FOUR BIG EVENTS each year on par with the O/ASC, and put a wildcard qualifier the night before Smiley

Top 3 from friday night get in.  Then the top guys go at it on Sat night.  Do it 4 times a year.  Show would be top notch, a big event, in varied places, and costs would be minimal because they'd score better costs as they're planning ahead and buying in bulk.
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« Reply #365 on: May 05, 2006, 12:04:36 AM »

OK - well - the IFBB, being the dominant bodybuilding organization and through its promoters, gives the athletes a place and venues to compete in order to win prize monies. With that, the IFBB also gives us the place to have expos related to bodybuilding and supplements, and in turn, provides many people with jobs, and the means to advertise a product, which brings in revenue, which lets the supplement companies or another other type of related company offer a contract to the athlete. Being in the IFBB increases the value for these athletes, and perhaps can (but not always) open the doors for more endorsements, prize money, guest posing, and a bigger fan base. The IFBB does not give back in monetary means, but just being at an IFBB show provides many people with a sense of focus, a means to make money, etc.

Now, I am not using other federations don't do the same thing, or the PDI won't, but at the moment, that is an answer to your question.

 

No - they didnt. They said that if you want your product in their stores, then they need to be guaranteed the lowest price available, and first basis of the product availabilty. It is your choice whether or not you want to be in Wal-Mart. They don't blackmail anyone. As a supplier, you choose what where you want to be.

No you are wrong.  The IFBB DOES NOT have anything to do with securing a place, time (maybe cause ofscheduling) or prize money.  You have worded it so it sounds like they are doing something but in reality they do nothing.  It is the promoter who does everything.  They have NOTHING to do with setting up paying for any part of an expo.  Ron, you must be sleeping cause you are wrong on all counts

Getting your product into Walmart is interesting.  I do not know the proper wording cause I owned the company and had many others doing it for me, but in Walmart as with Target, Sears and other major chain stores the space available is premium and costs money.  If you notice not much room in allot of these strores.  So when you go see a buyer you have to convince them to make room for your product.  You have to convince them that your product is worth more on their shelves that Brand X.  A common way is incentives through lower pricing which allow a higher profit margin for the retailer, actually purchase floor or shelve space on a temporary basis for a set amount of time in which certain goals have to be reached, and another way is to provide a very good and creative advertising campaign and co-op opputunites.

Gold's Gym appraoched Macys originally to sell their t-shirts back in the early 80's.  Macy's said no.  So Golds went back to the drawing board came up with a great idea.  They will have numerous BB come to Macy's and sign autographs and take pictures with people who buy their shirts.  So Macy's set up a Saturday and the lines were around the corner.  They literally sold everything they brought, and Macy's then gave them some floor space.  This was in New York.

Your last sentance is VERY wrong.  WHen you have a product (new) unless you pay a premium you go where they put you not where you want or you won't be in that store.  We paid a huge premium to Target to be right at the front entrance of 14 Target store in California.  That premium was very HIGH.  But with our POP designs and our creative marketing that premium was paid back 10 fold.  They sold out of our product in less than 3 weeks and they did a triple 2nd order and we ended up on the shelve at eye level.  Another thing you should know to is products that are at eye level on the shelves pay a nice premium or are established products.  If you ever see a new product on the shelf at eye level they paid some great money for that.  

What does this have to do with anything.  I have no idea but I got going on typing and couldn't stop.
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #366 on: May 05, 2006, 12:05:26 AM »

Also, fewer shows would benefit things. We have what, 14 or 16 IFBB events this year? 

All parties would be better served with FOUR BIG EVENTS each year on par with the O/ASC, and put a wildcard qualifier the night before Smiley

Top 3 from friday night get in.  Then the top guys go at it on Sat night.  Do it 4 times a year.  Show would be top notch, a big event, in varied places, and costs would be minimal because they'd score better costs as they're planning ahead and buying in bulk.

Maybe a few more than 4, maybe 6 or 7. But they do need to bring the number down. More quality = more fans
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #367 on: May 05, 2006, 12:08:23 AM »

Guys like Jay Cutler, Gunter, Richard Jones, David Henry, Branch Warren, these guys are EXTREMELY MARKETABLE!! That's going on radio shows, tv shows, promoting the sport.
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« Reply #368 on: May 05, 2006, 12:10:36 AM »

The readers of these magazines don't get the stories, they don't hear these guys talking, and they don't see them interacting or at shows. Some still picture isn't going to make them want to go to a competition, you gotta sell a little harder than that.

100% correct. The solution would be a reality TV show.
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« Reply #369 on: May 05, 2006, 12:10:53 AM »

THIS is what getbig should be like.  

Not negative, but not ass-kissing either.

If anyone started "Pro XYZ is smart and right and I don't need reasons", they'd be asked out. if anyone flamed, they'd be asked out.

THIS is intelligent discussion with relveant societal examples and are great points.  \
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« Reply #370 on: May 05, 2006, 12:11:27 AM »

Guys like Jay Cutler, Gunter, Richard Jones, David Henry, Branch Warren, these guys are EXTREMELY MARKETABLE!! That's going on radio shows, tv shows, promoting the sport.

 Yes, they are, but what should bodybuilding do to take advantage of this? Huh
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« Reply #371 on: May 05, 2006, 12:12:03 AM »

Now that is interesting. If an IFBB pro guest poses at another event, and wears the IFBB sweatshirt with IFBB sweatpants, and is clearly promoting the IFBB, can he get in trouble for that? Not sure.
 

No. Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. He cannt represent other federations, not Nabba, not Natural bodybuilders, not whoever.  It is not his position. He can advise to them, but he is the IFBB Athletes rep. I thought that was pretty clear, considering he is in the IFBB.

Which is why it is better to compare bodybuilding with individual athlete competitions.

Why would they wear all that stuff.  They don't do that now.  
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« Reply #372 on: May 05, 2006, 12:12:27 AM »

THIS is what getbig should be like.  

Not negative, but not ass-kissing either.

If anyone started "Pro XYZ is smart and right and I don't need reasons", they'd be asked out. if anyone flamed, they'd be asked out.

THIS is intelligent discussion with relveant societal examples and are great points.  \

And nobody has accused me of bias in 4 posts!
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thisiskeith12
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« Reply #373 on: May 05, 2006, 12:12:43 AM »

100% correct. The solution would be a reality TV show.

Maybe not even that, why not a weekly update show? Why not satellite radio? Sirius is giving shows out left and right, they have a 3 hour show about SCUBA DIVING! You're telling me Muscle and Fitness can't fork up $1,000 for a one hour show once a week?
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« Reply #374 on: May 05, 2006, 12:13:14 AM »

And nobody has accused me of bias in 4 posts!


You're a Nikon Shill. Don't lie.  You've been holding down my HP 6.2 megapixel from minute one.

Smiley
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