Extra 50K - What do you guys think?

[240 is Back]

The problem with that assessment is that they still offered lower prices than the competition. If they didn't, others could come in and take market share.

No- they blackmailed suppliers and supply systems and threatened to drop them if they worked with any other companies.  Competitors were dry and paralyzed.

Were forgetting one thing here boys...

supply and demand...the very foundation of business.

When there aren't enough customers (fans) to support Wal-mart and Target...guess what happens to the stock boys...they get LAID OFF.

I disagree.  During times of recession, required consumer goods like food do not go down much.  Only elective purchases like jewelry and high end electronics take a big hit.  Ppl need to eat.

And lucky for all of us- the BBing industry is never going to run out of kids who want muscles and ppl who enjoy BBing shows.  Strength & muscle shows were big decades before the web, and will continue to be.  

So the demand is there! But the prob is that the IFBB is strangling the SUPPLY!  No variety where aesthetics beat guts.  No unpredictablility- we allk now Ronnie always wins!  No high-quailty shows where IFBB really pulls out all the stops.  The quality of the product is poor.

[AVBG]

I agree it's the stockboy's choice, and this IFBB/PDI battle is free market capitalism at it's finest- I LOVE IT!

And if the PDI wins and IFBB closes, you'd better believe I'd be hyping Manion's next project to take on the PDI!  Competition is good for everyone except the owners, and keeps em honest.

However, when an athlete tries to appear neutral- and say he represents the interest of stockboys, and NOT Walmart- but then publicly disses Target and makes long speeches about how 'Maybe Target isn't in the best interest of WMT Stockboys!" he is not doing his job ethically.

240, there is no way that PDI could shut out the IFBB. PDI will have its place a niche so to speak, they cant compete with the Juggernaut that is the IFBB.

[Chick]

Were forgetting one thing here boys...

supply and demand...the very foundation of business.

When there aren't enough customers (fans) to support Wal-mart and Target...guess what happens to the stock boys...they get LAID OFF.

[LuciusFox]

No- they blackmailed suppliers and supply systems and threatened to drop them if they worked with any other companies.  Competitors were dry and paralyzed.

I disagree.  During times of recession, required consumer goods like food do not go down much.  Only elective purchases like jewelry and high end electronics take a big hit.  Ppl need to eat.

And lucky for all of us- the BBing industry is never going to run out of kids who want muscles and ppl who enjoy BBing shows.  Strength & muscle shows were big decades before the web, and will continue to be.  

So the demand is there! But the prob is that the IFBB is strangling the SUPPLY!  No variety where aesthetics beat guts.  No unpredictablility- we allk now Ronnie always wins!  No high-quailty shows where IFBB really pulls out all the stops.  The quality of the product is poor.

 But they still offered lower prices than their former competitors did, which was my point in the first place.

[240 is Back]

I see what you are saying, but it's also not ethical to act against the interests of your own company if they employ you. It's really a lose/lose situation at times.

Ahhh - that is the BEAUTY of the Rep position- he doesn't work for Walmart.  he works for the independent body of stockboys.  WMT has no influence on him, and won't even let him on the property!  WMT tells employees to stay away from him!   "He will limit your opportunities!" they say.

Bob is either the Pro BBing rep, or the IFBB liason.  There is the biggest problem.  His position is unclear and we need it clarified.

There is no such thing as Walmart employee's rep- he is a walmart HR employee.  A man who works ONLY for the athletes is not influenced by walmart, and would lose his job in a minute for playing golf with the Waltons.

[thisiskeith12]

I see what you are saying, but it's also not ethical to act against the interests of your own company if they employ you. It's really a lose/lose situation at times.

If there is a better opportunity, why not take it? My opinion is that the PDI is just a concept of what the IFBB should be. If the IFBB wakes up, the PDI is gone. The IFBB has so many tools to help generate more money around it, but it seems like no one is working on that. All it does is collect money from athletes and promoters. In the NFL, they don't take money from the players in order to be called an NFL Player, they talk to incoming players about generating income, managing money, how to deal with the media/fans, about being investive and even entreprenual. They have a prerequisite on incoming players to have at least 2 years of college completed.

[Ron]

The IFBB gives their members NOTHING.  If I am wrong here and the IFBB does give the pros something I am not aware of please tell me and I will be sorry for saying this.

OK - well - the IFBB, being the dominant bodybuilding organization and through its promoters, gives the athletes a place and venues to compete in order to win prize monies. With that, the IFBB also gives us the place to have expos related to bodybuilding and supplements, and in turn, provides many people with jobs, and the means to advertise a product, which brings in revenue, which lets the supplement companies or another other type of related company offer a contract to the athlete. Being in the IFBB increases the value for these athletes, and perhaps can (but not always) open the doors for more endorsements, prize money, guest posing, and a bigger fan base. The IFBB does not give back in monetary means, but just being at an IFBB show provides many people with a sense of focus, a means to make money, etc.

Now, I am not using other federations don't do the same thing, or the PDI won't, but at the moment, that is an answer to your question.

No- they blackmailed suppliers and supply systems and threatened to drop them if they worked with any other companies.  Competitors were dry and paralyzed.

No - they didnt. They said that if you want your product in their stores, then they need to be guaranteed the lowest price available, and first basis of the product availabilty. It is your choice whether or not you want to be in Wal-Mart. They don't blackmail anyone. As a supplier, you choose what where you want to be.

[thisiskeith12]

OK - well - the IFBB, being the dominant bodybuilding organization and through its promoters, gives the athletes a place and venues to compete in order to win prize monies. With that, the IFBB also gives us the place to have expos related to bodybuilding and supplements, and in turn, provides many people with jobs, and the means to advertise a product, which brings in revenue, which lets the supplement companies or another other type of related company offer a contract to the athlete.

Doesn't the promoter provide that? The promoters provide pretty much the venue and cooridinate all events circling the contest, including the expo. Also including promotions locally.

[onlyme]

 

An NFL player cannot play in Arena Football, or CFL, or European League, etc. Simple as that.  The NFL does not pay the athletes. The teams pay them. And the teams can cut you real quick if you are not good enough either. But bodybuilding is different - you compete for money - it isn't a team sport. Try something with an individual sport to compare.

True about the football thing they cannot play for another organization.  But also true is the NFL and others pay their members allot of money.  The teams pay them and so does the NFL.  And when you are cut you have a contract and the team has to pay that contract off or find a team that will take it over.  In all pro sports you comepte for money.  Boxing is an individual sport.  Boxers box in other federations all the time.  In fact they unify the belts from all the major federations.  What determines where a fighter is going to fight is the promoter and the money.  They can basically go anywhere they want.  

How about an IFBB pro guest posing at a PDI event.  No way in the world can the IFBB stop this.  They wuld be in court in a heartbeat and lose their ass off.  That is a fact.  They could no way stop that.

[LuciusFox]

Ahhh - that is the BEAUTY of the Rep position- he doesn't work for Walmart.  he works for the independent body of stockboys.  WMT has no influence on him, and won't even let him on the property!  WMT tells employees to stay away from him!   "He will limit your opportunities!" they say.

Bob is either the Pro BBing rep, or the IFBB liason.  There is the biggest problem.  His position is unclear and we need it clarified.

There is no such thing as Walmart employee's rep- he is a walmart HR employee.  A man who works ONLY for the athletes is not influenced by walmart, and would lose his job in a minute for playing golf with the Waltons.

 But he is the IFBB athletes rep. He is supposed to help IFBB bodybuilders, not PDI bodybuilders.

[thisiskeith12]

True about the football thing they cannot play for another organization.  But also true is the NFL and others pay their members allot of money.  The teams pay them and so does the NFL.  And when you are cut you have a contract and the team has to pay that contract off or find a team that will take it over.  In all pro sports you comepte for money.  Boxing is an individual sport.  Boxers box in other federations all the time.  In fact they unify the belts from all the major federations.  What determines where a fighter is going to fight is the promoter and the money.  They can basically go anywhere they want. 

How about an IFBB pro guest posing at a PDI event.  No way in the world can the IFBB stop this.  They wuld be in court in a heartbeat and lose their ass off.  That is a fact.  They could no way stop that.

Actually in the NFL it's just the team owners cutting the players their checks. However, league revenue is divided amongst all teams to their owners.

[thisiskeith12]

But he is the IFBB athletes rep. He is supposed to help IFBB bodybuilders, not PDI bodybuilders.

and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.

[240 is Back]

If the IFBB wakes up, the PDI is gone. The IFBB has so many tools to help generate more money around it, but it seems like no one is working on that. All it does is collect money from athletes and promoters.

Point of the year here!  Bravo!

Is the IFBB listening, or will they just pay some lip service that "We respect the fans and will work to make this year's O the best ever blah blah..."?

[LuciusFox]

and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.

 Exactly, the bodybuilders need a united front!

[Ron]

How about an IFBB pro guest posing at a PDI event.  No way in the world can the IFBB stop this.  They wuld be in court in a heartbeat and lose their ass off.  That is a fact.  They could no way stop that.

Now that is interesting. If an IFBB pro guest poses at another event, and wears the IFBB sweatshirt with IFBB sweatpants, and is clearly promoting the IFBB, can he get in trouble for that? Not sure.

and he needs more support to help voice the overall opinions of all competitors.

No. Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. He cannt represent other federations, not Nabba, not Natural bodybuilders, not whoever.  It is not his position. He can advise to them, but he is the IFBB Athletes rep. I thought that was pretty clear, considering he is in the IFBB.

Actually in the NFL it's just the team owners cutting the players their checks. However, league revenue is divided amongst all teams to their owners.

Which is why it is better to compare bodybuilding with individual athlete competitions.

[thisiskeith12]

Point of the year here!  Bravo!

Is the IFBB listening, or will they just pay some lip service that "We respect the fans and will work to make this year's O the best ever blah blah..."?

I just saw on ABC the other day a report about how weight loss supplements ALONE generate over $1.6 Billion a year, now add other supplements to that, plus the magazine sales of Flex M&F and MD, and you should have a fairly large number. A number that if distributed to benefit all, would not only grow the sport as a whole, but also you can bank on a damn good investment you are making. Money talks...

[240 is Back]

I can't believe how many professional Bbers- who work harder than many other athletes in other sports- scrimp to get by.  I am a businessman and I talk to them all the time.  They're all looking for answers, for sponsors, for some crumbs.  As much as I am an internet troll, I might easily out-earn many of them, as do many of us here.  It's really sad. 

There is zero profit sharing.  And there should be.

[thisiskeith12]

No. Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. He cannt represent other federations, not Nabba, not Natural bodybuilders, not whoever.  It is not his position. He can advise to them, but he is the IFBB Athletes rep. I thought that was pretty clear, considering he is in the IFBB.

Which is why it is better to compare bodybuilding with individual athlete competitions.

I mean IFBB athletes. But he needs more support. Ron, do you think you could face the heads of the IFBB alone? No. And neither can Bob. He needs more support.

I understand bodybuilding is an individual sport, but why not get a few select cities that have a high volume of fans, and make this cities focal points of contests. Get rid of the Toronto Pros, which I know they did, and any others that aren't generating enough attention nor attendance nor excitement.

[kmhphoto]

COrrect- BUT it's not being run correctly and no change seems to be coming.  Most of the guys in this multi-million dollar industry are living on the edge of the law and check to check.  They are not being rewarded for their sacrifices.

You have to seperate professional bodybuilding from the multi-million dollar supplement industry. The vast majority of people who train and take supplements have absolutely no interest in pro bodybuilding. I know a hardcore gym with over 1000 members in London that was not able to sell 20 tickets to the British GP held 10 miles away.

As much as I'd like to see the sport grow, in it's current state it's reached it's peak, and you only have to look at the falling attendance and failure of shows to see that the interestest is falling.

The Arnold Weekend has grown into one of the largest sporting events in the world but the bodybuilding event only attracts the same number of people as it did 10 years ago. If Arnold can't pull them in, nobody can.

Competiotion between Walmart and Target is good for employees and consumers because the profit margins are so huge that the companies can absorb increased costs. Show promoters do not have that luxury. Limited demand from fans, means limited support from sponsors.

The majority of people who read bodybuilding magazines are not interested in the competions thenselves only the athletes physiques.

The Ironman Show is held in the body image capital of the world but can't sell out despite it being an established show and recieveing plenty of advertising.

A proliferation of new federations is not going to improve the financial earning capacity of the athletes because it't not going to put more fans on seats.

[LuciusFox]

I can't believe how many professional Bbers- who work harder than many other athletes in other sports- scrimp to get by.  I am a businessman and I talk to them all the time.  They're all looking for answers, for sponsors, for some crumbs.  As much as I am an internet troll, I might easily out-earn many of them, as do many of us here.  It's really sad. 

There is zero profit sharing.  And there should be.

 It would be interesting to know how important sponsored bodybuilders are to supplement sales.

[240 is Back]

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!

[thisiskeith12]

The majority of people who read bodybuilding magazines are not interested in the competions thenselves only the athletes physiques.

The readers of these magazines don't get the stories, they don't hear these guys talking, and they don't see them interacting or at shows. Some still picture isn't going to make them want to go to a competition, you gotta sell a little harder than that.

[LuciusFox]

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!

  But that is unfortunately where bodybuilding is at

[thisiskeith12]

The shows should be put on by the federations.  Period.

There should be one man who is hired to coordinate 5 to 15 shows a year.  Give him a small staff and a company account.

IFBB runs all IFBB events.  PDI runs all PDI events.  When money is tight, the company takes the hit.  When there's a big payoff, they get their due back.

And if not, get ONE supp company to do a show, and hold them contractually accountable to be fiscally responsible.  Cancelling the Toronto Pro 4 weeks out- that's just mickey mouse, mate!

Get supplement companies to pay for ads just like the NFL gets ad revenue, and use it to better the league division or federation or whatever you want to call it. Use the money for prettier stage setups, put it back into the system and eventually it will start running like a well oiled transmission and you can ride the wave.

[240 is Back]

Also, fewer shows would benefit things. We have what, 14 or 16 IFBB events this year?  

All parties would be better served with FOUR BIG EVENTS each year on par with the O/ASC, and put a wildcard qualifier the night before

Top 3 from friday night get in.  Then the top guys go at it on Sat night.  Do it 4 times a year.  Show would be top notch, a big event, in varied places, and costs would be minimal because they'd score better costs as they're planning ahead and buying in bulk.