Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Gino30]

let this thread fucking die for once and all

[WillGrant]

You know what's horrible judging?

Giving that downright disgusting collection of overblown bodyparts they call Ronnie Coleman the sandow all those years.
The Mr.Olympia competition used to be about aesthetics, symmetry, AND muscle.
Ronnie has great biceps; I'll give you that; however, he's just too unbalanced to be considered symmetrical.
Since aesthetics, as I explained, are partly based on symmetry and proportion, he can't be considered aesthetic either.

So what does that leave?
He has no symmetry, no aesthetic appeal...
He has muscle; that's it!

This is precisely the reason that modern "freaks" like Yates are still discussed on serious bodybuilding forums like Iron Age,
and the "freaks" like Ronnie Coleman are not. You see, unlike Coleman, Yates was a complete package.
NOBODY saw a physique so complete until Dorian Yates reached his peak. When Dorian hit the stage,
everyone immediately realised they were battling for second place;
indeed, they knew right away who the daddy was.

Complete dominance was had by Dorian, and in an era of greater competition.
Most of the top guys now would look second tier if they stepped on the Olympia stage during the reign of king Doz.

The darkside i sense is strong in this one master..

For a young fulla JP talks the truth..Ronnie was a mess,earlier on he was amazing once he uped the dose then he began to resemble horse shit...

Giving that downright disgusting collection of overblown bodyparts they call Ronnie Coleman the sandow all those years.
The Mr.Olympia competition used to be about aesthetics, symmetry, AND muscle.
Ronnie has great biceps; I'll give you that; however, he's just too unbalanced to be considered symmetrical.
Since aesthetics, as I explained, are partly based on symmetry and proportion, he can't be considered aesthetic either

All Truth 

[RocketSwitch625]

Chris Lund must've taken one look at Ronnie Coleman and said "Wow, best developed calves of all time". LOL

[Hulkster]

Chris Lund must've taken one look at Ronnie Coleman and said "Wow, best developed calves of all time". LOL

and he must have looked at dorian's whole front side and said "Wow, worst developed Mr. Olympia of all time" LOL

[RocketSwitch625]

and he must have looked at dorian's whole front side and said "Wow, worst developed Mr. Olympia of all time" LOL

You should've posted this shot instead. It's from 94 and it shows why Dorian Yates won with ease every year. Absolutely flawless unlike your water logged baldy hero.

[NeoSeminole]

[RocketSwitch625]

The sad thing is your baldy hero gets killed in the ab and calf department by Kamali.

LOL

[Bear]

Ronnie at 247 lbs holding his own in the size department with a heavier Dorian. So much for the nuthuggers saying Dorian would make 01 ASC Ronnie look small.

Quite. The beginnings of my own argument stem form similar roots, in that my initial impulse when first getting into bodybuilding was that Ronnie simply appears MORE MUSCULAR, with full muscle bellies, not super hard/dry/flat looking muscles. I now know that what's pleasing to the eye doesn't always mean that much.

Ayway enough postulating, just look at this!




Alreacy posted I know, but surely pretty definitive evidence that Dorian would not make Ronnie look small.

Look at Kevin compared to Ronnie, then look at Kevin compared to Dorian!

[IceCold]

You should've posted this shot instead. It's from 94 and it shows why Dorian Yates won with ease every year. Absolutely flawless unlike your water logged baldy hero.

hulkster ownded as usual.

[NeoSeminole]

Answer: No

[suckmymuscle]

Ronnie >>> Dorian

Peter McGough - Flex, April 2002

"[Ronnie Coleman] bounced back to win the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic with a physique that may have been the best ever seen."

Milos Sarcev - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

"Ronnie Coleman is absolutely phenomenal, and I really mean that. I would also agree with all the experts who believe that he is the best bodybuilder of all time. However, I don’t think he has the most aesthetic body of all time, but having said that, he certainly is the best (for IFBB pro judges) in bodybuilding."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0

Raymond Cassar – Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

  None of these quotes are from I.F.B.B judges. So it doesen't matter.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

None of these quotes are from I.F.B.B judges. So it doesen't matter.

wrong, the quotes do matter. The judges have 2 eyes and a brain just like anyone else, and they follow the same IFBB judging criteria for everyone to see. They don't have special powers that nullify the opinions of bodybuilding experts as you would have us believe. Furthermore, the judges aren't always in agreement with one another. Dorian Yates had Jay Cutler in 4th place at the Mr. Olympia. However, Jay got 2nd. This goes to show that even the judges can disagree with one another.

[suckmymuscle]

wrong, the quotes do matter. The judges have 2 eyes and a brain just like anyone else, and they follow the same IFBB judging criteria for everyone to see. They don't have special powers that nullify the opinions of bodybuilding experts as you would have us believe. Furthermore, the judges aren't always in agreement with one another. Dorian Yates had Jay Cutler in 4th place at the Mr. Olympia. However, Jay got 2nd. This goes to show that even the judges can disagree with one another.

  Since only I.F.B.B judges judge I.F.B.B contests, and since I'm assuming that the hypothetical Dorian at his best vs Ronnie at his best debacle would take place at an I.F.B.B stage, then ergo, only the opinions of proper I.F.B.B judges ultimately matter.     

  And judges disagree with each other, so what? That's why they vote and the bodybuilder with the most votes(points) wins. My point, though, is that the opinion of an I.F.B.B judge stating that either Dorian or Ronnie at their respective bests would win has weight, whilst that of an expert doesen't. Dorian Yates is an I.F.B.B judge and he stated that himself in his prime vs Ronnie in his prime could go either way. Until the opinion of another judge is presented stating that Ronnie would win, we must accept this preliminary assesment as the most likely scenario. Since judges disagree then we would need an answer from all of them and the winner would be the one with the most votes. Until then, we must accept the statement of the one I.F.B.B judge who spoke on the matter, that it could go either way, as the most likely scenario.

SUCKMYMUSCLE                                                                                                       

[IceCold]

no, thats the definition of horrible judging..

no.

that would be 2001 when ronnie lost the prejudging, signaled to the crowd he was going to get 2nd and some how won.

[NeoSeminole]

Since only I.F.B.B judges judge I.F.B.B contests, and since I'm assuming that the hypothetical Dorian at his best vs Ronnie at his best debacle would take place at an I.F.B.B stage, then ergo, only the opinions of proper I.F.B.B judges ultimately matter.

ultimately matter in a contest? Yes, since the winner is declared after the judges tally their scorecards. However, this doesn't mean the words of bodybuilding experts don't matter. Usually their opinions coincidence with, or at least come close to, the judges' decisions. The only difference is the latter determines placings. As far as I'm aware, there is no IFBB school where they send people to learn how to judge contests. Dorian Yates used to be a bodybuilding expert before he became a judge. Are you saying he wasn't qualified before and suddenly learned everything he needed to know when the IFBB made him a judge?

And judges disagree with each other, so what? That's why they vote and the bodybuilder with the most votes(points) wins.

tsk tsk, "so what?" Don't you get it? If you posted a quote from a judge saying Dorian would win, I could cancel it out with a quote from another judge saying Ronnie would win since the judges don't always agree. This leaves us right back where we started.

My point, though, is that the opinion of an I.F.B.B judge stating that either Dorian or Ronnie at their respective bests would win has weight, whilst that of an expert doesen't. Dorian Yates is an I.F.B.B judge and he stated that himself in his prime vs Ronnie in his prime could go either way.

the words of an expert does carry weight. See above. Also, Dorian admitted the judges would probably choose Ronnie in favor of his size.

[m8]

Answer: No

That's just YOUR opinion.

[NeoSeminole]

Sucky wanted the opinion of someone who mattered. How about the founding father of modern bodybuilding?

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

this coming from a guy who organized the IFBB from scratch. If anyone should know the judging criteria, it's him.

How Joe and Ben Weider Became the Founding Fathers of Bodybuilding

"The Weiders wanted a contest that was respectful of the individual and of the discipline of lifting, and so developed a sport by having competitors pose in front of judges to determine who had the most balanced muscular build."

http://www.getbig.com/articles/faq-wdr.htm

[m8]

Weiders = senile old men.

[suckmymuscle]

ultimately matter in a contest? Yes, since the winner is declared after the judges tally their scorecards. However, this doesn't mean the words of bodybuilding experts don't matter.

  They don't matter regarding what would transpire at an I.F.B.B stage, since only I.F.B.B judges actually make decisions regarding placings at I.F.B.B contests.

Usually their opinions coincidence with, or at least come close to, the judges' decisions

  Supply evidence for this. Both John Romano and Wheeler had Ronnie winning the 2006 Olympia after the pre-judging.

The only difference is the latter determines placings.

  Exactly. And this makes all the difference.

As far as I'm aware, there is no IFBB school where they send people to learn how to judge contests. Dorian Yates used to be a bodybuilding expert before he became a judge. Are you saying he wasn't qualified before and suddenly learned everything he needed to know when the IFBB made him a judge?

  No, I'm saying that his opinion was irrelevant at saying what would happen at a contest and now it isn't.  The issue is not qualification, but authority. An I.F.B.B judge has the power to influence the plachings at a contest; a mere expert doesen't.

tsk tsk, "so what?" Don't you get it? If you posted a quote from a judge saying Dorian would win, I could cancel it out with a quote from another judge saying Ronnie would win since the judges don't always agree. This leaves us right back where we started.

  And this is why I said that if we both had quotes from judges regarding the Dorian vs Ronnie issue, then we could determine who would win by who had the most votes. However, I have a quote from an actual I.F.B.B judge stating it could go either way while you don't have any quotes from actual I.F.B.B judges. My whole point is that the relative weight of my quote outweights the combined weight of your quotes because the statement from an I.F.B.B judge matters more. Understand now or must I repeat myself again?

the words of an expert does carry weight. See above. Also, Dorian admitted the judges would probably choose Ronnie in favor of his size.

  He followed that statement saying that it would be up to the judges, that he had better conditioning and balance and that it could go either way.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

They don't matter regarding what would transpire at an I.F.B.B stage, since only I.F.B.B judges actually make decisions regarding placings at I.F.B.B contests.

no shit, I already covered this.

Supply evidence for this. Both John Romano and Wheeler had Ronnie winning the 2006 Olympia after the pre-judging.

Peter McGough, Lonnie Teper, Raymond Cassar, and Milos Sarcev. I don't consider John Romano or Flex Wheeler bodybuilding experts.

Exactly. And this makes all the difference.

not really. I already explained why.

No, I'm saying that his opinion was irrelevant at saying what would happen at a contest and now it isn't.  The issue is not qualification, but authority. An I.F.B.B judge has the power to influence the plachings at a contest; a mere expert doesen't.

you're still missing the point. If 2 people arrive at the same conclusion based on their knowledge but one of them is a judge while the other isn't, it's ok to use the opinion of the person who isn't a judge.

And this is why I said that if we both had quotes from judges regarding the Dorian vs Ronnie issue, then we could determine who would win by who had the most votes. However, I have a quote from an actual I.F.B.B judge stating it could go either way while you don't have any quotes from actual I.F.B.B judges. My whole point is that the relative weight of my quote outweights the combined weight of your quotes because the statement from an I.F.B.B judge matters more. Understand now or must I repeat myself again?

repeat yourself all you want. The quote you have is from a guy who admitted Ronnie would beat him and had Jay (2nd place finisher at the 08 Mr. O) in 4th place. If you really want to argue credibility, then my quote from IFBB founder Joe Weider saying Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time trumps your Dorian quote.

He followed that statement saying that it would be up to the judges, that he had better conditioning and balance and that it could go either way.

show me where Dorian said it could go either way due to his conditioning and balance. He acknowledged the judges would lean in favor of Ronnie's size.

Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview

"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."

[Hulkster]

You should've posted this shot instead. It's from 94 and it shows why Dorian Yates won with ease every year. Absolutely flawless unlike your water logged baldy hero.

I love how you think that arms with such little detail and incredibly undersized (compare them to his calves ) is 'absolutely flawless"

LOL

oh, and you think this is waterlogged:?

 

[Hulkster]

^

as always, dorian has better calves...and nothing else LOL

[James Phoenix]

The darkside i sense is strong in this one master..

For a young fulla JP talks the truth..Ronnie was a mess,earlier on he was amazing once he uped the dose then he began to resemble horse shit...
All Truth 

I don't expect Hulkster to attempt a refutation of this; it puts the nail in Coleman's giant coffin.

It's an argument he can't win.

[Big_Tymer]

look at this: paperthin chest, peashooter arms, baseball sized delts, unsymetrical bloated gut

its a shame this abomination won as many O's as he did.  Ill give him 92 and 93, but anything after that was a gift.

[RocketSwitch625]

This is what real peashooters look like.

Uncanny Resemblance BTW: