Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3133470 times)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4050 on: June 11, 2006, 05:09:30 PM »
Quote
if you think Ronnie would beat Dorian who was a full 257lbs , detailed , seperated and hard as steel !!
show me some shots of dorian from 1993 that are detailed and seperated besides the lower back and abs.

show me detailed and seperated biceps, triceps, delts, quads, hams, glutes pecs...

go ahead.  This was my point that you keep ingnoring: Dorian was dry as a bone, but did not have much genetically blessed detail to show off in most bodyparts.

If you actually compared all the videos posted in this thread, you would realize this pretty quickly.
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natural al

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4051 on: June 11, 2006, 05:27:27 PM »
show me some shots of dorian from 1993 that are detailed and seperated besides the lower back and abs.

show me detailed and seperated biceps, triceps, delts, quads, hams, glutes pecs...

go ahead.  This was my point that you keep ingnoring: Dorian was dry as a bone, but did not have much genetically blessed detail to show off in most bodyparts.

If you actually compared all the videos posted in this thread, you would realize this pretty quickly.

has there been video of dorian from 93 on this thread?  I'm really asking, not trying to be a smart ass.  I've got that Olympia on video but I don't know whrer the hell it is.....
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4052 on: June 11, 2006, 05:39:47 PM »
has there been video of dorian from 93 on this thread?  I'm really asking, not trying to be a smart ass.  I've got that Olympia on video but I don't know whrer the hell it is.....

there has been a "best of" Dorian yates video with many scenes from 1993.

Also there are pics out there, like this one:


and again, we see a few striations in the chest, but really nothing special compared to Ronnie's detail. We see almost NO detail in the delts and arms, and quads that look really, really, strange with not much detail.

Here is a mm muscular comparison, with Dorian in great shape from 1992, and Ronnie from 1999:



hell, dorian was more detailed in 1992 than he was in 1993.  But again, this ililistrates the point that has been totally ignored by ND and co:  For all the dryness dorian had, he STILL did not have the level of Detail as a whole that Ronnie had. Also, muscle shape plays a  really big role as you can see.


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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4053 on: June 11, 2006, 06:02:41 PM »
there has been a "best of" Dorian yates video with many scenes from 1993.

Also there are pics out there, like this one:


and again, we see a few striations in the chest, but really nothing special compared to Ronnie's detail. We see almost NO detail in the delts and arms, and quads that look really, really, strange with not much detail.

Here is a mm muscular comparison, with Dorian in great shape from 1992, and Ronnie from 1999:


hell, dorian was more detailed in 1992 than he was in 1993.  But again, this ililistrates the point that has been totally ignored by ND and co:  For all the dryness dorian had, he STILL did not have the level of Detail as a whole that Ronnie had. Also, muscle shape plays a  really big role as you can see.



'
WoW so he has no detail in 93? lol look at this picture you can clearly see the detail in Dorian's glutes , hams , his whole back is more detailed than both Flex & Shawn

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4054 on: June 11, 2006, 06:16:22 PM »
Detail anyone?

nicorulez

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4055 on: June 11, 2006, 06:58:35 PM »
Sucky, you are truly a schmuck to the nth degree.  I enjoy this thread because it shows all the GetBiggers what a delusional, ignorant fool you are.  You continually crack on everyone, but the only one who looks poorly is you.  Winning General...of what war....the English vs the Argentines in the Falkland islands...you are one of the Argentinian generals....General Galtieri (look it up as I know you don't have a clue).  Better yet, you are like Al Gore...still think you won the Presidency.  What an idiot.  It is fun fucking with you.  BTW, internet threats are against the law assclown.  I wouldn't go to the FBI because you are not considered a national security threat...instead, it is the bane of all of America that we have to care for ignorant, low IQ individuals as yourself so you are a hindrance.  So, Dorian is the best heh?  Your GetBig poll clearly shows differently.  Videos do not lie also.  ;D  BTW, why do you always have to type in such large letters.  Are you trying to annoy everyone on this board.  If so, you have been successful.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4056 on: June 11, 2006, 07:06:09 PM »
This is a quote from eight time Mr Olympia winner Lee Haney on Dorian Yates as he appeared at the 1993 Mr Olympia

" No doubt about it , Dorian was the winner . He's gotten bigger , with even more muscularity and detail. Fantastic! Out of sight. Y'know he was over and beyond a champion. He knows his body . It'll be hard for anyone to unseat him . "


Point to note Hulkster the general consensus is pictures & video Do Not do Yates justice , he must be seen in person to be believed , so you can't gauge him on a few magazines scans and a compressed video on-line , I have the whole contest on tape and he doesn't lack any detail .

Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4057 on: June 11, 2006, 07:31:39 PM »
  No. This is exactly what you don't understand. This is exactly my point: Ronnie did NOT, at 287 lbs, have better symmetry than Dorian.

From top to bottom: Ronnie has a better V-taper, a smaller waist, and superior quad sweep.

From left to right: Dorian's biceps never matched, even before the tear.
Dorian's quadriceps have never matched.
The medial heads of his triceps are grossly out of balance.

So yes, I do understand: Ronnie's symmetry is 100% better.

Quote
Did NOT have better conditioning or separations. If we're going to ignore a MAJOR liability, like a distended belly and poor taper, than let's compare the 274 lbs Dorian from the 97 O to the 287 lbs Ronnie from 2003.

Ronnie's quadriceps have much better separation. I challenge you to find one piece of visual evidence, one photograph of Dorian, that can match the separation in his quadriceps:


Ronnie's hamstrings and glutes are miles ahead of Dorian, in terms of size and separation.
Dorian's back in contest shape is 2 dimensional in the most muscular, whereas Coleman has mounds and ridges of solid muscle in his back. Dorian's dryness cannot compensate for Ronnie's superior thickness. Don't tell me contest Yates' back was thicker and more dense, the only pictures you guys can produce that attest to any semblance of thickness are those black and white pre-season photographs, but he has such little detail at that stage of preparation its moot.

Dorian is dry, but has few striations and no vascularity. You and ND constantly overlook this.
Ronnie is not as dry but still showcases a great deal of detail, far more than Dorian.

Ronnie has a better taper than Dorian:
Smaller waist + Wider lats + Wider delts = Superior taper. Get over it.

Quote
I mean, if size and density is all that matters to you, than let's compare Ronnie to Dorian at his largest. Dorin was 266 lbs for the pre-judging of the 97 O nd then ballooned to 274 lbs by the night show. Let's compare that. At his 274 lbs form, Dorian was even fuller and denser than at this previous Olympias, while still maintaining his trademarked dryness and...still had a much smaller gut and far less distension than the 2003 Ronnie. You see, Dorian defeats Ronnie across all weight ranges, irrespective of the bodybuilding criteria you adopt.

We are comparing ONE peak form! You can't mix and match Dorian's strengths in various years and act as though he showcased all of them at one time.

You are wrong. 2003 Coleman destroys Yates in the muscularity department. 33%
Symmetry is not even close. Ronnie > Dorian. 33% + 33% = 66%

The only issue that is even a debate is muscle maturity / condition, the remaining 33%
Dorian was dry but lacked detail (striations, vascularity).
I would still hand this facet over to Ronnie, although I do acknowledge it could go either way.

Ronnie's pecs are so dense, you can just see the layers of thickly proportioned muscle.
Dorian would be heavily penalized for the minimal detail / separation in his chest and quadriceps.
Dorian would win lower-back condition and perhaps abdominals. The remainder is comparable.
Regardless, it is not nearly enough for Yates to even tie, let alone win soundly as you claim.
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Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4058 on: June 11, 2006, 07:35:45 PM »
This is a quote from eight time Mr Olympia winner Lee Haney on Dorian Yates as he appeared at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" No doubt about it , Dorian was the winner . He's gotten bigger , with even more muscularity and detail. Fantastic! Out of sight. Y'know he was over and beyond a champion. He knows his body . It'll be hard for anyone to unseat him . "

Irrelevant ... as always.


Quote
Point to note Hulkster the general consensus is pictures & video Do Not do Yates justice , he must be seen in person to be believed , so you can't gauge him on a few magazines scans and a compressed video on-line , I have the whole contest on tape and he doesn't lack any detail .

We could say the same thing for Ronnie ... what the hell is your point?
Secondly, we are to trust the testimony of an eye-witness from an event 13 years ago?  ::)

Dorian has minimal detail in his pectorals, appalling detail in his quadriceps, average detail in his hamstrings and glutes (Ronnie's premier strengths), no detail in his biceps (Ronnie's strength), etched-out triceps but devoid of striations and vascularity (Ronnie's riddled with striations).
Face it, aside from lower-back detail (and arguably abdominal detail) he has nothing on Ronnie.
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4059 on: June 11, 2006, 07:51:18 PM »
ND, the issue isn't whether or not dorian was detailed in 1993. Parts of him were (although not the arms, delts and quads).

the issue is that he was NOT as detailed as Ronnie, even though you claim he was "dryer".

And, as with P. Fenix, I don't really understand what you are saying when you say "dorian looks better in person".  And Ronnie doesn't?

So, if he doesn't look superdetailed on video and pics, but does in person, then how detailed must someone like ronnie who DOES look detailed on video and pics look?  He must look even more amazing..
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4060 on: June 11, 2006, 07:51:44 PM »
Irrelevant ... as always.


We could say the same thing for Ronnie ... what the hell is your point?
Secondly, we are to trust the testimony of an eye-witness from an event 13 years ago?  ::)

Dorian has minimal detail in his pectorals, appalling detail in his quadriceps, average detail in his hamstrings and glutes (Ronnie's premier strengths), no detail in his biceps (Ronnie's strength), etched-out triceps but devoid of striations and vascularity (Ronnie's riddled with striations).
Face it, aside from lower-back detail (and arguably abdominal detail) he has nothing on Ronnie.

How the fuck is that irrealevant? what warped school of logic did you attend? he was a fucking eye witness for Gods sake , he was sitting in the front damn row !! his statement DIRECTLY contradicts your claim ( as well as Hulksters ) that he lacks detail and genius the ' testimony ' was given the night of the contest !! it was reported in the magazines thereafter

For you to dismiss Haney's critique only validates your status as a zealot , your opinion he was devoid of detail was directly contradicted by one of the greatest Mr Olympia winners ever ! who was live & in person within 10 feet of the stage , you're basing your assesment on magazine scans & compressed video  ::)

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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4061 on: June 11, 2006, 07:53:16 PM »
And Paul Dillett, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler and Sergio Olivia own ND.
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4062 on: June 11, 2006, 07:55:20 PM »
ND, the quote from Haney is irrelevant to the topic of Dorian vs. Ronnie because the quote was made in 1993, which is before ronnie ever even stepped on a pro stage..

It is relevant to Dorian specificially, but, as always, bodybuilding is not judged standing alone. It is judged relative to fellow competitors.

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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4063 on: June 11, 2006, 07:57:35 PM »
Isn't it funny (and predictible) that when ND gets caught in an argument he can't win (Dorians detail as compared to Ronnie's - video after video and pic after pic show that Ronnie had more detail) that he runs back to his quotes from magazines.

I am pretty sure we could dig up tons of pro Ronnie quotes if we wanted to, but that isn't relevant..
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4064 on: June 11, 2006, 08:04:42 PM »
ND, the issue isn't whether or not dorian was detailed in 1993. Parts of him were (although not the arms, delts and quads).

the issue is that he was NOT as detailed as Ronnie, even though you claim he was "dryer".

And, as with P. Fenix, I don't really understand what you are saying when you say "dorian looks better in person".  And Ronnie doesn't?

So, if he doesn't look superdetailed on video and pics, but does in person, then how detailed must someone like ronnie who DOES look detailed on video and pics look?  He must look even more amazing..

Dorian has fair skin , even when he is tanned some times photography doesn't catch all of his details the same can be said with video , but obviously live & in-person the judges see it very clearly , African-American guys and Europeans/Americans with darker skin don't have this problem , look at the difference in B&W pics of Dorian its easier to see his detail becaus the lighting in pictures doesn't wash it out , this doesn't happen with guys of color

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4065 on: June 11, 2006, 08:08:20 PM »
And Paul Dillett, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler and Sergio Olivia own ND.

Paul Dillet after the 1995 Mr Olympia " I've just seen Jesus Christ and he looks like Dorian Yates "

Flex Wheeler 1993 Mr Olympia " Dorian Yates is unstopable "

Shawn Ray 1994 Mr Olympia " I feel I got the placed I deserved "

Say what?  ;)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4066 on: June 11, 2006, 08:11:45 PM »
Dorian has fair skin , even when he is tanned some times photography doesn't catch all of his details the same can be said with video , but obviously live & in-person the judges see it very clearly , African-American guys and Europeans/Americans with darker skin don't have this problem , look at the difference in B&W pics of Dorian its easier to see his detail becaus the lighting in pictures doesn't wash it out , this doesn't happen with guys of color

but it doesn't erase striations. It does make them a little less prominant. But smooth is smooth.



the best lighting in the world won't put detail where detail doesn't exist...
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4067 on: June 11, 2006, 08:12:04 PM »
Isn't it funny (and predictible) that when ND gets caught in an argument he can't win (Dorians detail as compared to Ronnie's - video after video and pic after pic show that Ronnie had more detail) that he runs back to his quotes from magazines.

I am pretty sure we could dig up tons of pro Ronnie quotes if we wanted to, but that isn't relevant..

Oh I see firsthand accounts don't count lol " Hulkster " and " Preator Fenix " on GetBig seen magazine scans and compressed video ( laughing my fucking ass off ) they've come to the conclusion that Lee Haney is wrong , who was sitting 10 feet from the stage and see Dorian live and in person , oh my fucking-God , you two are a pair that will beat any straight flush !! get the hook , seriously .

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4068 on: June 11, 2006, 08:18:59 PM »
Oh I see firsthand accounts don't count lol " Hulkster " and " Preator Fenix " on GetBig seen magazine scans and compressed video ( laughing my fucking ass off ) they've come to the conclusion that Lee Haney is wrong , who was sitting 10 feet from the stage and see Dorian live and in person , oh my fucking-God , you two are a pair that will beat any straight flush !! get the hook , seriously .

Lee Haney was not speaking about Dorian relative to Ronnie Coleman.

Just as your pics of dorian standing alone don't mean all that much, because when he stands next to others, its a whole different story all together.


 :-\


and you are acting as if video destroys Dorians physique and dramatically enhances Ronnie's. It doesn't.

Video is video.

Its an equal playing feild.

Just because its obvious that Ronnie has more detail, better shape, more vascularity etc. does not mean that the video took all that away from dorian..
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4069 on: June 11, 2006, 08:19:41 PM »
but it doesn't erase striations. It does make them a little less prominant. But smooth is smooth.


the best lighting in the world won't put detail where detail doesn't exist...

You think striations are some magical power and by virtue of having more they automatically make you a winner ...............um....... .........NOT ask Andres Munzer how many contests they won for him , or Hamdullah Aykutlu  they did him a great deal of good and both had striations Ronnie could only wish for !!

striations & vascularity don't win contests , they help but they're not make or break , at his best Dorian's skin on contest day has been described as " tissue paper over raw muscle " thats about as dry as a human can get .

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4070 on: June 11, 2006, 08:25:31 PM »
Lee Haney was not speaking about Dorian relative to Ronnie Coleman.

Just as your pics of dorian standing alone don't mean all that much, because when he stands next to others, its a whole different story all together.


 :-\


and you are acting as if video destroys Dorians physique and dramatically enhances Ronnie's. It doesn't.

Video is video.

Its an equal playing feild.

Just because its obvious that Ronnie has more detail, better shape, more vascularity etc. does not mean that the video took all that away from dorian..

Don't backpeddle now , you made the claim he had no detail , I provided you with a firsthand account that contradicts that , now you're saying oh realtive to Ronnie , he doesn't need more striations than Ronnie to beat him , his skin is ciggerette paper thin thats dryness at 257lbs was extremly hard to match

And to say he looks great standing alone but when next to anyone else its a different story , BULLSHIT !! he won almost every single one of his Mr Olympia wins with straight firsts the exception was 92 when he was small & depeleted and he almost got straight firsts in every single fucking round , the symmetry round , muscularity round , the posing round and the posedown !! so the I.F.B.B. judges directly contradict your lame-ass-biased-assesment that he only looks good standing alone


Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4071 on: June 11, 2006, 08:29:57 PM »
Oh I see firsthand accounts don't count lol " Hulkster " and " Preator Fenix " on GetBig seen magazine scans and compressed video ( laughing my fucking ass off ) they've come to the conclusion that Lee Haney is wrong , who was sitting 10 feet from the stage and see Dorian live and in person , oh my fucking-God , you two are a pair that will beat any straight flush !! get the hook , seriously .

You do realize that we are subject to linear time, don't you?
Each and every year, people and conditions change, sometimes (in Ronnie's case) dramatically.
Firsthand testimony is only relevant to the appropriate timeframe.

Lastly, you are familiar with the concept of relativity, aren't you?
"He's gotten bigger, with even more muscularity and detail."
The adjectives are relative, not absolute. Compared to Dorian's previous standard, he came in with greater muscularity and detail.

A 400lb fat chick who is leaner, now 375lbs, is still a fat tub of shit.
Likewise, Dorian, although he had even more detail, still lacks sufficient overall detail.
Dorian cannot match Ronnie's vascularity or striations in a single isolated department.

Don't throw this haphazard analysis around where Haney is comparing 1993 Dorian to his prior package(s) and expect us to interpret that as a sign that he presented a level of detail on par with 2003 bodybuilders, let alone a bodybuilder as dominant as Ronnie Coleman.
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Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4072 on: June 11, 2006, 08:40:44 PM »
Don't backpeddle now , you made the claim he had no detail , I provided you with a firsthand account that contradicts that , now you're saying oh realtive to Ronnie , he doesn't need more striations than Ronnie to beat him , his skin is ciggerette paper thin thats dryness at 257lbs was extremly hard to match

It doesn't matter how thin his skin is if he has nothing to showcase underneath it.
Aside from huge veins on his underdeveloped, nonpeaked, torn biceps, he has none.
Few striations. His muscle isn't multi-layered like Coleman's (particularly the pecs and biceps).

Show me one f*cking contest where striations don't matter! Jesus Christ, how delusional are you?I don't know how they run things in Denmark or wherever the hell you are from, but in the states, striations are an exceptionally important element of bodybuilding criteria. They are the focal point of muscle detail!

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And to say he looks great standing alone but when next to anyone else its a different story , BULLSHIT !! he won almost every single one of his Mr Olympia wins with straight firsts the exception was 92 when he was small & depeleted and he almost got straight firsts in every single fucking round , the symmetry round , muscularity round , the posing round and the posedown !! so the I.F.B.B. judges directly contradict your lame-ass-biased-assesment that he only looks good standing alone

Here we go again...
Was he ever standing next to 2003 Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman? Nope.

The point is, Dorian's so called "strengths" (lower back detail, calves, upper back width/separation/thickness) look less impressive next to the other competitors, competitors I might add that are nowhere near Ronnie's 2003 level.
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alexxx

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4073 on: June 11, 2006, 08:44:53 PM »
Strength wise Dorian doesn't quite measure up to Ronnie.. oh wait..  size wise too. ;D
just push some weight!

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4074 on: June 11, 2006, 09:30:50 PM »
Quote
Strength wise Dorian doesn't quite measure up to Ronnie.. oh wait..  size wise too.

Other than size, taper, shape, cuts, vascularity and aesthetics, Yates is right there!

Let's see: Yates wins on uh..calves, forearms, "graininess", washboard but noticeably wider waist.. ;D