Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian looks excellent in that picture ND!!!

I still think his waist is a touch too big and his upper body muscularity a touch too small to handle big Ron though.  It would be a pretty good show if those two matched up though!

Cutler & Guther both proved you don't need a small waist to beat Ronnie and Dorian's waist & taper are better than both of them by far . and I agree that if anything it would be close .

[Bast000]

They are both big.

Case closed.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It wouldn't be too unreasonable to award Dorian the win.  It really depends on the version of Ronnie.  Truthfully, I think Ronnie's best chance to beat Dorian in that picture would be in 2003.  It is really hard to ignore 287 pounds of mass!

I think he judges may side with Ronnie vs Dorian if he was 287lbs just based on that size advantage even though his conditioning isn't as good . but Dorian 93 vs Ronnie 98/99 wouldn't be a cake walk for either and for those who say otherwise are full of it .

[NeoSeminole]

I don't think 99 Ronnie would destroy 93 Dorian easily if they competed against each other. However, I do believe Ronnie would convincingly beat Dorian by a few pts. ND acts like the winner would be decided by 1 pt. 

[LyricTenor]

I don't think 99 Ronnie would destroy 93 Dorian easily if they competed against each other. However, I do believe Ronnie would convincingly beat Dorian by a few pts. ND acts like the winner would be decided by 1 pt. 

God you're dumb

[NarcissisticDeity]

I don't think 99 Ronnie would destroy 93 Dorian easily if they competed against each other. However, I do believe Ronnie would convincingly beat Dorian by a few pts. ND acts like the winner would be decided by 1 pt. 

It would be a lot closer than you could ever imagine ! a lot of Coleman fans get to emotionally wrapped up in Ronnie to let logic and common sense even come into play.

Ronnie in 1998 just barely beat Flex Wheeler by 3 points that is one of the closest Mr Olympia contests in memory he was very lucky they didn't go with Flex on name alone. Dorian faced Flex 3 times and beat him with ease on all three . and Flex was a hell of a lot sharper in 93 than he was in 98 . so if 98 Ronnie could barely beat Flex anyone who thinks he could beat Dorian is not being honest with themseleves .

Ronnie 99 was bigger than 98 he was 257lbs the same as Dorian in 93 but NOT as dry besides the gyno which would cost him points his physique was outstanding , this would probably his best chance maybe 2001 ASC but he was a little lean in that contest but shredded !!

Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber he never faced anyone who could stand toe to toe with his in back width , thickness and detail , he never faced anyone who was just as big as he was and perhaps even dryer , Ronnie has his strenghts but so does Dorian both have weaknesses and for those who would say it would be no contest in Ronnie's favor is dreaming it would be very close .

[pobrecito]

It would be a lot closer than you could ever imagine ! a lot of Coleman fans get to emotionally wrapped up in Ronnie to let logic and common sense even come into play.

Ronnie in 1998 just barely beat Flex Wheeler by 3 points that is one of the closest Mr Olympia contests in memory he was very lucky they didn't go with Flex on name alone. Dorian faced Flex 3 times and beat him with ease on all three . and Flex was a hell of a lot sharper in 93 than he was in 98 . so if 98 Ronnie could barely beat Flex anyone who thinks he could beat Dorian is not being honest with themseleves .

Ronnie 99 was bigger than 98 he was 257lbs the same as Dorian in 93 but NOT as dry besides the gyno which would cost him points his physique was outstanding , this would probably his best chance maybe 2001 ASC but he was a little lean in that contest but shredded !!

Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber he never faced anyone who could stand toe to toe with his in back width , thickness and detail , he never faced anyone who was just as big as he was and perhaps even dryer , Ronnie has his strenghts but so does Dorian both have weaknesses and for those who would say it would be no contest in Ronnie's favor is dreaming it would be very close .

and conversely, Dorian never faced anyone of Ronnie's caliber

[pobrecito]

Dorian looks incredibly more thick and dense here...not to mention he had better condition than Ronnie in 99. Dorian's downside is his quads, while huge, lack cuts, and he has less detail than Coleman overall, except in his back, which I believe is superior. Coleman blows him away on arms, but in his 93 physique Dorian's arms went just fine with his physique. I do feel that Dorian in his 93 form is more complete than Coleman due to his lack of calves. But, after Dorian tore his arm I don't think he should have won anymore as he was no longer complete. Ronnie having gyno is moot, that does not make a BB incomplete....and maybe that's why the 98O was close on paper becuase of the gyno but in reality Ronnie blew flex away

[suckmymuscle]

I think he judges may side with Ronnie vs Dorian if he was 287lbs just based on that size advantage even though his conditioning isn't as good . but Dorian 93 vs Ronnie 98/99 wouldn't be a cake walk for either and for those who say otherwise are full of it .

  No. I have already explained that the 2003 Ronnie would lose to a Dorian around 255 lbs. No guys should be Mr.O with a distended midsection, invisible abdominals and serratus and gross lower body disproportionalities. Ronnie 2003 has Dorian on muscularity, but that's it. When it comes to a complete bodybuilding criteria, Ronnie loses: it is called bodybuilding and not massbuilding for a reason.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

No guys should be Mr.O with a distended midsection, invisible abdominals and serratus and gross lower body disproportionalities.

SUCKY with absolutely no balance in silly reasoning-where would that leave someone with ALL the above PLUS arms too small for a barrel chest, insufficient size up top to offset similar ab probs, AND unpleasant aesthetics?..LOL

[pobrecito]

Where would that leave someone with ALL the above PLUS arms too small for a barrel chest, insufficient size up top to offset similar ab probs, AND unpleasant aesthetics?..LOL

I've already stated, Dorian should have won 2Mr. O's (92 and 93). 93 ranks up there with one of the greatest showings ever, Dorian was in the best condition we have EVER seen, and he was COMPLETE. His shape is inferior to Coleman, as is his overall detail and cuts, however, I feel his superior muscularity (density) and conditioning is enough to make up for his flaws and make the competition with a peak coleman ('99) extremely close.

HOW can you look at this shot and not be impressed?


As I have said before, take ANY other bodybuilder and scrutinize him like we do Yates and Coleman and we will see just how superior these two at their primes are to everyone else. It would be an absolute joke to scrutinize any other BB like we do these two. Flex would be a joke, too small and inferior conditioning. Shawn Ray, too small period. Levrone, poor back, too much esiclene. Etc, etc, etc....

[pumpster]

HOW can you look at this shot and not be impressed?

There are many who aren't, because he lacks some of the fundamental qualities seen on other great BBs, even in that pic. Including:

-Lack of taper between upper body and waist because (1) shoulders aren't that wide, (2) waist is wide. Add to that the generally unappealing appearance of overly-muscular obliques.

-Overall lack of tapers because (1) joints are thick, coupled with (2) smallish muscles in some areas including arms.

-Noticable size imbalance between big toros and smallish arms.

-Uninspiring shape in various areas such as arms.

-Lack of cuts, refinement and vascularity in some areas including arms and shoulders. In that pic, thighs aren't particularly refined either.



That leaves him deserving a couple of Olympias, as you've said, with the others deservedly going to others.

The contrast here is striking, it's not close as some are suggesting:

[pobrecito]

There are many who aren't, because he lacks some of the fundamental qualities seen on other great BBs, even in that pic. Including:

-Lack of taper between upper body and waist because (1) shoulders aren't that wide, (2) waist is wide.

-Overall lack of tapers because (1) joints are thick, coupled with (2) smallish muscles in some areas including arms.

-Noticable size imbalance between big toros and smallish arms.

-Uninspiring shape in various areas such as arms.

-Lack of cuts, refinement and vascularity in some areas including arms and shoulders. In that pic, thighs aren't particularly refined either.



That leaves him deserving a couple of Olympias, as you've said, with the others deservedly going to others.

pumpster, in that case, nothing more can be said to you, as this is all opinion, I find that picture extremely impressive. The sheer muscularity and onion peeled conditioning along with the complete physique that is RARELY seen on olympia stage impresses the hell out of me. Coleman in 99 also impresses the fuck out of me.

[pumpster]

I find that picture extremely impressive

He looks fine until compared with others who are much better. They are much better in the ways I've outlined, which are not subjective-in reality a tape measure could be used to ascertain the ratios I've discussed related to taper & size.

[pobrecito]

He looks fine until compared with others who are much better. They are much better in the ways I've outlined, which are not subjective.

What looks "better" to you?

Like I've already said, Dorian 93O impresses me becuase of the sheer density and the best conditioning of all time, not to mention COMPLETE...something Flex and Ronnie has never been. That being said, my ideal is Ronnie 1996 pre-olympia. NO GUT DISTENSION, 255lbs, 23" arms, sliced quads, great back, etc.

[pumpster]

I think most BB fans prefer size, conditioning & aesthetics along with extreme tapers-Coleman pre-gut, Wheeler, Robinson, Oliva, Schwarzenegger..classic BBers.

Yates had extraordinary conditioning & density that isn't easily seen or appreciated in pics but he also had some pronounced flaws that mitigated those advantages to some extent. Wheeler and Coleman didn't have quite that conditioning but didn't need to because they weren't as flawed.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think most BB fans prefer size, conditioning & aesthetics along with extreme tapers-Coleman pre-gut, Wheeler, Robinson, Oliva, Schwarzenegger..classic BBers.

Yates had extraordinary conditioning & density that isn't easily seen or appreciated in pics but he also had some pronounced flaws that mitigated those advantages to some extent. Wheeler and Coleman didn't have quite that conditioning but didn't need to because they weren't as flawed.

See this has nothing to do with what most bodybuilding fans prefer  it has to do with what the judges would pick and while I do prefer more aesthetic type physiques and was routing for Flex Wheeler in 1993 I understand why the judges picked Yates even if I didn't agree with it .

And if following your logic that Flex & Ronnie didn't need Dorian's density & conditioning because they wern't as ' flawed ' as Yates then with all their much superior atributes Flex would have beat Dorian in 1993 despite not being as dense or dry and Ronnie the same in 96/97 but they didn't and why? because Yates has the biggest & dryest among other things.

[pumpster]

Like I've already said, Dorian 93O impresses me becuase of the sheer density and the best conditioning of all time, not to mention COMPLETE

Agree entirely with the first two but your reasoning falls apart entirely with COMPLETE when in fact his lack of completeness and balance issues are two of the biggest problems interfering with the first two positives outlined.

[pumpster]

See this has nothing to do with what most bodybuilding fans prefer  it has to do with what the judges would pick and while I do prefer more aesthetic type physiques and was routing for Flex Wheeler in 1993 I understand why the judges picked Yates even if I didn't agree with it .

.

Maybe they'll revise the guidelines if so.

And if following your logic that Flex & Ronnie didn't need Dorian's density & conditioning because they wern't as ' flawed ' as Yates then with all their much superior atributes Flex would have beat Dorian in 1993 despite not being as dense or dry and Ronnie the same in 96/97 but they didn't and why? because Yates has the biggest & dryest among other things.

It's now well established that some of the contest results are suspect. That over-rules any of your explanations for some of us, always will, because there have been numerous discrepancies.

[pobrecito]

Agree entirely with the first two but your reasoning falls apart entirely with COMPLETE when in fact his lack of completeness and balance issues are two of the biggest problems interfering with the first two positives outlined.

Explain to me how Dorian is NOT complete? Your only basis for saying he is incomplete is his biceps, which were just fine in 93. They are no coleman arms, but they held up just fine to anyone else in that contest.....

[Palpatine Q]

 Using their competitive records to gauge who is better is as much of a joke as the actual "competitions".

[NarcissisticDeity]

Maybe they'll revise the guidelines if so.

It's now well established that some of the contest results are suspect. That over-rules any of your explanations for some of us, always will, because there have been numerous discrepancies.

How exactly have it been well established that some of the contest results are suspect? by you constantly repeating it every thread thats well established ? and how is it contest placings are only suspect when they refer to Dorian but not Ronnie?  

Either contests are fixed and Dorian & Ronnie both recieved gifts or neither are fixed , you cannot have it both ways .

[pobrecito]

Let's put it this way, if the Olympia was NOT fixed, it would not be the olympia, it would lose it's presitge and be just like any other show.

By my estimation Dorian deserved 2 of his wins (92, 93) and Ronnie deserved 5 (98, 99, 00, 03, 04, 05).

However, Ronnie earned more of his wins due to shitty competition (e.g. 01, 02, 04, 05). Imagine if a 2001 or 2002 version of ronnie had to compete with a '95 version of Levrone.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Let's put it this way, if the Olympia was NOT fixed, it would not be the olympia, it would lose it's presitge and be just like any other show.

By my estimation Dorian deserved 2 of his wins (92, 93) and Ronnie deserved 5 (98, 99, 00, 03, 04, 05).

However, Ronnie earned more of his wins due to shitty competition (e.g. 01, 02, 04, 05). Imagine if a 2001 or 2002 version of ronnie had to compete with a '95 version of Levrone.

You see th 1995 Mr Olympia? lol 1996 he was damn good not as great as 93/95 but easy win 1994 still good enough to beat everyone . 1997 he should have lost .

[pobrecito]

I saw the 95 olympia on tape. Dorian should not have won with the torn bicep. He was no longer complete and does not represent what a mr. olympia should be. I should not have to cringe when the Mr. Olympia hits a front double bicep.