Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

another noticable advantage would be conditioning, harndess, and density. advantage dorian.

what good is any of that when Dorian looks like this in comparison?:



all that talk doesn't necessarily make for a better physique.

and don't give me that bullshit about "oh, its the lighting!"

no it isn't - the best lighting in the world does not give you arms with that shape and vascularity, nor quads with those sharp cuts.

Quality muscle does.

[NarcissisticDeity]

You still have no idea what muscle density is, do you?

The amount of muscle per unit area.
Ronnie Coleman has far more muscle on an equivalent frame.
Hence, Ronnie Coleman's muscle density is superior to Dorian's.

I grow tired of your confusion.
Conditioning and grain are not synonymous to density.
Muscle hardness is not muscle density.

You evidently have no idea what the term means. Its merely a buzzword to you. Its getting old.

I thought you ' grew tired ' of this whole thread weels ago? and when I claim that Dorian has superior density its in reguards to Ronnie at around the same weight 1998/1999 so get with the program son. 

[Hulkster]

I was just flipping through the august edition of MD and in it there is a front double bi shot of Dorian from this contest:


that is so bad it has to been SEEN to be believed. It showed horrible arms, wide waist and super smooth, ugly quads. What contest is this from?

hopefully someone who has the mag and a scanner can post the pic I am talking about and make ND shut up for ever about his ridiculous

"the front double bi is debatable!" nonsense.


no ND, it isn't

[Hulkster]

im not going to write a big long reply because looking at the arguments nothing is being accomplished. so, i ask nd is something wrong with you in terms of mental capacity, you like dorian yes, i do too. however, ronnie is lightyears ahead face it, the pictures show it all, its so frustrating arguing with someone who wont face the facts and is so biased reason flies out the window. dorian as a bb is not better then ronnie the bb.

hahahahahahaha

Comments ND?

Seems you are getting more and more alone in your crazy, bizzare assertions about Dorian's superiority over Ronnie.

I guess its natural for an ironager such as yourself to automatically believe that yesterday's champions are better than more modern champs even if all the pics and videos show otherwise...

[NarcissisticDeity]

If you look through this thread, there have been many, many many shots of Ronnie looking far better than Dorian in the back double bi, at least from the knees up.

here are but a few examples:


technically not a double bi, but it still blows away ANY dorian back shot except for the famous lower back shot..


unreal.

a 249 Ronnie Coleman doesn't blow a 257lb Dorian out of the water not by a long shot , Dorian has everything Ronnie has in the back double bicep shot with the exception of hi-peaked biceps and while Ronnie may be comparable in the back shot his poor calves wont go unnoticed especially when standing next to among the best , add muscular balance , superior conditioning , muscular density and Dorian has the edge in lowerback as well they all negate Ronnie's bicep advantage.


Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.

[NarcissisticDeity]

hahahahahahaha

Comments ND?

Seems you are getting more and more alone in your crazy, bizzare assertions about Dorian's superiority over Ronnie.

I guess its natural for an ironager such as yourself to automatically believe that yesterday's champions are better than more modern champs even if all the pics and videos show otherwise...

You keep trying ( and failing ) to conect the Ironage with me preference of Dorian over Ronnie thats has nothing to do with it , he basically ended the Ironage lol get your facts straight and I think Ronnie 98/99 is much better than his modern form lol so much for your theroy , professor. hows those math problems comming along? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

I was just flipping through the august edition of MD and in it there is a front double bi shot of Dorian from this contest:


that is so bad it has to been SEEN to be believed. It showed horrible arms, wide waist and super smooth, ugly quads. What contest is this from?

hopefully someone who has the mag and a scanner can post the pic I am talking about and make ND shut up for ever about his ridiculous

"the front double bi is debatable!" nonsense.


no ND, it isn't

At his best its debatable , that pic is from 1995 post tear , nice try but you've failed again and the contest in which you claim he was so terrible in was the same one where Paul Dillett said " I've seen Jesus Christ and he looks like Dorian Yates. " but we'll go with your assesment because we all know just how freaky-good your judging ability is lol

[natural al]

a 249 Ronnie Coleman doesn't blow a 257lb Dorian out of the water not by a long shot , Dorian has everything Ronnie has in the back double bicep shot with the exception of hi-peaked biceps and while Ronnie may be comparable in the back shot his poor calves wont go unnoticed especially when standing next to among the best , add muscular balance , superior conditioning , muscular density and Dorian has the edge in lowerback as well they all negate Ronnie's bicep advantage.


Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.

the prejudgeing shots of dorian from 93 show a level of detail that is comparible to Ronnie at his best.  Just an obervation.

[pumpster]

small calves also dramtically effect balance.  cant hide them in any shot.

 

Calves have no effect on upper body shots, and has been acknowledged before, to be honest they don't have the same value in BB as arms; not even close. Arms are amonsgst the "show" muscles, everyone knows it and all the BB legends save for Haney & Yates had great arms. Show muscles are what people remember, not someone's calves!

small calves also dramtically effect balance.  cant hide them in any shot.

yates could "hide" his arms.  arms look great in side tri and side chest.

You can't be serious...arms are the biggest factor in BB shows. What cave are you living in? All the great BB legends from Scott to Oliva to Schwarzenegger to Coleman had great arms, period.


Yates' doing a poor job of "hiding" the smallish, unbalanced and impressive arms here, as usual..completely the opposite of your theory.

[NarcissisticDeity]

another noticable advantage would be conditioning, harndess, and density. advantage dorian.

i mean its not like dorian has the taper of palumbo, atwood, or kamali.

Great post ! I've pointed this out to ad nasuem but they hear what they want. Dorian at his best has a very good taper obviously NOT the best and not as good as Coleman , his taper is better than Cutler & Gunther and they both beat Ronnie lol

[Praetor Fenix]

I thought you ' grew tired ' of this whole thread weeks ago? and when I claim that Dorian has superior density its in reguards to Ronnie at around the same weight 1998/1999 so get with the program son. 

Sorry. My mistake! =/

[pumpster]

Quote from: IceCold on Today at 07:34:46 PM
another noticable advantage would be conditioning, harndess, and density. advantage dorian.

i mean its not like dorian has the taper of palumbo, atwood, or kamali.

Great post ! I've pointed this out to ad nasuem but they hear what they want.

To bring up Palumbo or to have this dolt ND congratulate you for that analogy is really beside the point. We're talking relative differences-relative to great BBs Yates gets killed. Standing by himself he looks fine, standing beside Palumbo Yates looks like a million dollars...you didn't know that this thread was about comparisons..?

[sgt. d]

Dayum will you all ever stop. Dorian looked like shit. End of thread.


Ronnie wins

[pumpster]

Dorian looked like shit. End of thread.

Pithy & concise.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Calves have no effect on upper body shots, and has been acknowledged before, to be honest they don't have the same value in BB as arms; not even close. Arms are amonsgst the "show" muscles, everyone knows it and all the BB legends save for Haney & Yates had great arms. Show muscles are what people remember, not someone's calves!


You can't be serious...arms are the biggest factor in BB shows. What cave are you living in? All the great BB legends from Scott to Oliva to Schwarzenegger to Coleman had great arms, period.

Calves have no effect on upper body shots, and has been acknowledged before, to be honest they don't have the same value in BB as arms; not even close. Arms are amonsgst the "show" muscles, everyone knows it and all the BB legends save for Haney & Yates had great arms. Show muscles are what people remember, not someone's calves!

Simple assesment from a simple person , calves complete ALL shots . the IFBB judging criteria specfically asks for them in every single pose. and again to insist Dorian doesn't have any arms is a pathetic attempt to further dicredit him for your own personal bias . Yates' arms are over 20 " and at his best in 1993 in proportion with the rest of his physique.

weak underdevloped calves CAN NOT be hidden they are plainly visable in every single mandatory pose and they have NOTHING to do with what people ' remember ' and its NOT about parts its about the complete pose .

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sorry. My mistake! =/

No apology needed. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dayum will you all ever stop. Dorian looked like shit. End of thread.


Ronnie wins

Ronnie never won against Dorian lol even though you think he looked like shit. 

[pumpster]

Simple assesment from a simple person , calves complete ALL shots

A stupid, failed attempted comeback. All muscles "complete" the pic yet he feels the need to inform us of the obvious.  The show muscles have an inordinate effect, and Yates is near the bottom of the pile of Olympians when it comes to lamest show muscles ever. He's neck-and-neck with Dickerson and Columbu!

[corinth]

Simple assesment from a simple person , calves complete ALL shots . the IFBB judging criteria specfically asks for them in every single pose. and again to insist Dorian doesn't have any arms is a pathetic attempt to further dicredit him for your own personal bias . Yates' arms are over 20 " and at his best in 1993 in proportion with the rest of his physique.

weak underdevloped calves CAN NOT be hidden they are plainly visable in every single mandatory pose and they have NOTHING to do with what people ' remember ' and its NOT about parts its about the complete pose .

ND, rightly or wrongly, calves and forearms just don't decide bodybuilding contests. If they did Dex Jackson would never have won the Arnold.

[Hulkster]

First of all who are you to decide what the ' key areas ' are? lol ones that you think Ronnie has the edge in? lol you're ignorant of the IFBB rules this is clearly evident.

so lets get this straight Ronnie has a smaller waist yet it can't compete with Dorian's in terms of separation & detail and thats a key aera? whats the sense in having a small waistline if it doesn't have greatly shaped abdominals and deeply eteched , obliques , serattus and intercostals?
Again you keep tryng to gloss over Yates strengts in order to reduce him and it hasn't worked , his arms ( at his best ) aren't flawed thats your imagination, his triceps & forearms are fantastic and his biceps were good , no matter how many times you type this nonsense I will counter it.

his quads aren't flawed again you being prone to melodrama , the only problem with his quads are his upper separation . you've been exposed as nothing but an internet-fan for this comment before and since you're still clinging to it your title remains intact  His chest is flawed because Ronnie's has more fine-lines lol you know nothing ! especially seeing Ronnie's chest is flawed  he has bitch-tits that ruins his whole chest lol

Again you think by adding up Ronnie's parts which you think are so much better that it makes up a better whole it doesn't. Dorian according to the IFBB judging criteria simply beats Ronnie in most of the mandatory poses.

front latspread
rear latspread
sidechest
side triceps
abdominal & thigh

front & rear double biceps are DEBATABLE !

Dorian has the edge in terms of muscular bulk , muscular density , muscule balance and conditioning you will never to top these advantages .

1. Last time I checked, the arms, quads and chest were pretty freakin' key areas

(hint: the inner thighs and forearms are generally not considered key areas)

2. your comment about ronnie's intercostals, serratus and obliques shows that you really do ignore pics:





how many more times are you going to keep saying that Ronnie had smooth serratus, intercostals?

3.

his triceps & forearms are fantastic and his biceps were good , no matter how many times you type this nonsense I will counter it.

and this is what every keeps trying tell you: you can't look at the parts in isolation.

the FACTS are that when yates poses, his arms look like this:






which is absolute garbage when compared to this:








no amount of verbal diarreah is ever going to convince anyone but yourself that Dorian's arms were anywhere near as good as Ronnie's..

4. Your comments about dorian's quads and me being an "internet fan" are puzzling.

Let me respond this way: if I am such an internet fan, and dorian has these miraculously amazing thighs that don't show up on camera (but ronnie's somehow do), then show me some proof that dorian had quads that looked ANYwhere near this good:





you seem to be implying that because I see all these VIDEOS and PICS showing Dorian's clearly inferior quads (as compared to Ronnie) that I am somehow an "internet fan" because I have never seen them in person.  You are suggesting that in person they look unreal.

Fine. No doubt they must look insane up close.

But what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that since Ronnie's quads look so much better on camera that they must look even MORE SUPERIOR in real life.

You don't seem to grasp this concept.

5.

Dorian according to the IFBB judging criteria simply beats Ronnie in most of the mandatory poses.

you keep saying this over and over again, yet you have yet to show any proof that anyone other than you and suckmyasshole actually agree with..

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, rightly or wrongly, calves and forearms just don't decide bodybuilding contests. If they did Dex Jackson would never have won the Arnold.

Not alone they don't but in conjunction with the whole the add up .

[NeoSeminole]

Back Double Biceps

"Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance."

I highlighted in bold the parts where Ronnie beats Dorian.

[corinth]

Not alone they don't but in conjunction with the whole the add up .

All things considered, I just can't think of a single contest where small calves and poor forearms have cost someone a contest. Dex and Ronnie are perfect examples, they have won the 2 biggest shows the past year.

[Hulkster]

dorian beat shawn ray in 1994 because he had superior inner thighs, as seen here:

[NarcissisticDeity]

1. Last time I checked, the arms, quads and chest were pretty freakin' key areas

(hint: the inner thighs and forearms are generally not considered key areas)

2. your comment about ronnie's intercostals, serratus and obliques shows that you really do ignore pics:



how many more times are you going to keep saying that Ronnie had smooth serratus, intercostals?

3.and this is what every keeps trying tell you: you can't look at the parts in isolation.

the FACTS are that when yates poses, his arms look like this:



which is absolute garbage when compared to this:

[no amount of verbal diarreah is ever going to convince anyone but yourself that Dorian's arms were anywhere near as good as Ronnie's..

4. Your comments about dorian's quads and me being an "internet fan" are puzzling.

Let me respond this way: if I am such an internet fan, and dorian has these miraculously amazing thighs that don't show up on camera (but ronnie's somehow do), then show me some proof that dorian had quads that looked ANYwhere near this good:


you seem to be implying that because I see all these VIDEOS and PICS showing Dorian's clearly inferior quads (as compared to Ronnie) that I am somehow an "internet fan" because I have never seen them in person.  You are suggesting that in person they look unreal.

Fine. No doubt they must look insane up close.

But what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that since Ronnie's quads look so much better on camera that they must look even MORE SUPERIOR in real life.

You don't seem to grasp this concept.

5.you keep saying this over and over again, yet you have yet to show any proof that anyone other than you and suckmyasshole actually agree with..

1. Last time I checked, the arms, quads and chest were pretty freakin' key areas

(hint: the inner thighs and forearms are generally not considered key areas)

1) You're clueless as to what the judges are looking for . you are totaly ignorant to their criteria and you have the compulsion to pick & choose every advantage you think Ronnie has and claim some victory. again lets entertain Ronnie has a better chest it does nothing for him in the sidechest pose , in the front double biceps pose we can clearly see his bitch-tits is that a key area as well?

2. your comment about ronnie's intercostals, serratus and obliques shows that you really do ignore pics:



how many more times are you going to keep saying that Ronnie had smooth serratus, intercostals?

2) while good for Ronnie still not on par with Dorian in terms of crisp muscularity and sharpness . you can clearly see the difference between Ronnie 98 and 99 nevermind Yates the larger Ronnie got the less detail he showed in this area .

3.and this is what every keeps trying tell you: you can't look at the parts in isolation.

the FACTS are that when yates poses, his arms look like this:



which is absolute garbage when compared to this:

[no amount of verbal diarreah is ever going to convince anyone but yourself that Dorian's arms were anywhere near as good as Ronnie's..

3) Thank you ! you've exposed yourself ( once again ) as the biased person you are. Dorian's arms in 1993 were a hell of a lot better than that . you're just like your lap dog pumpster , you post pictures of Yates at his worse and Ronnie at his best and claim superiority   you hunt for the worse pictures of Dorian and the best of Ronnie its old and tired ( like this thread ) I don't mind debating you but you're unable to do so without bias .

4. Your comments about dorian's quads and me being an "internet fan" are puzzling.

Let me respond this way: if I am such an internet fan, and dorian has these miraculously amazing thighs that don't show up on camera (but ronnie's somehow do), then show me some proof that dorian had quads that looked ANYwhere near this good:


you seem to be implying that because I see all these VIDEOS and PICS showing Dorian's clearly inferior quads (as compared to Ronnie) that I am somehow an "internet fan" because I have never seen them in person.  You are suggesting that in person they look unreal.

Fine. No doubt they must look insane up close.

But what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that since Ronnie's quads look so much better on camera that they must look even MORE SUPERIOR in real life.

You don't seem to grasp this concept.

4) I didn't start calling you internet-fan , Royality did and I just jumped on the bandwagon because it pisses you off. he's personally seen Dorian and he said his quads are great , I'm more likely to believe him or some internet-fan. and Dorian's quads are great I don't care if you think so , the only real problem with his quads are his rectus femoris separation other than that his quads are damn great . Ronnie's quads are better and they serve a great purpose in showing just how pathetic his calves are .

(b) and Ronnie has the edge in being dark so his details are a lot easier to capture on film & video but does this mean it would be even more so in person ? no you can plainly see his already while Dorians you can't

5.you keep saying this over and over again, yet you have yet to show any proof that anyone other than you and suckmyasshole actually agree with..

5) I've provided more " proof "  and commentary on this topic than just about anyone . you see what you want in the pictures and videos . you've obviously made up your mind long ago like any picture I could post or words I type can change it lol you're so far gone from objectivity and honesty you're beyond the Grace of God . You attempt to discredit Dorian and his dominance is fuled by pure bias and you act like you can have a serious debate when you can't .

The lenght of our ' debates ' have worn you down to spouting ridiculous statements like ' Dorian is the most overrated bodybuilder ever " " Dorian's conditioning was a myth " " Dorian is a blocky white guy " " Dorian is a contruction worker " " Dorian only won against smaller guys "  etc..whats funny is Ronnie Coleman thinks very highly of Dorian Yates ( and vice versa )  its a pity you can't or wont.