Top 10 Supplements you need to have

[wavelength]

I'm sorry , and i mean no disrespect, you seem very intelligent...

but your a lost cause, wave length  

Your just too stubborn and hard headed. The fact that there are alot of very beneficial supplements on the market today has been prooven already. You cant admit it, or just cant see it.

Every supplement that's out there is 100% proven, just listen to the ads. I did the only thing possible for me to find out if the claims are true. They aren't. How is that stubborn?

One other thing... if what someone 'feels' has to be dismissed... then how YOU 'feel' about supplements not working for you when you tried them must be dismissed as well. Supplements do work, but they are not drugs. You have already said your natural, you have said you do things like running, you have said you have a low calorie diet.... supplements are beneficial, but not to the point that you would have been able to notice a difference in your body composition after 6 months time. Not the way you diet + train + natural status. The fact that you "FEEL" that they didn't do anything for you, that must be dismissed.  

When did I say I do things like running? I don't do any cardio, but that's beside the point.
I already layed out how I did my experiments. They had absolutely nothing to do with feelings. It's very simple:
You measure your weight and LBM (as good as possible, of course) before and after a cut. You do the same for a bulk. The exact formulas are described in this thread: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=236639.0. No feelings at all.

Regarding my current diet methods: I have tried a lot of different approaches in the past, including classical BB methods. I gradually debunked the myths, this includes training, nutrition, and supplements. You are right however, that I don't know anything about the effectiveness of certain bodybuilding methods when drugs are used.

And 'feeling' stronger definitely does help bodybuilding goals. lifting heavier weights means more muscle stimulation, more glycogen depletion, more pump, more test, more gh, more igf-1, more insulin sensitivity, more lipolysis, more protein synthesis...  

Why bother with certain aspect? If what you say is true, it should show up in my experiment. It does not.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

Will, if we just focus on bodybuilding,

can you tell me for what basic supp ingredients double blind crossover studies have been seriously performed on a representative number of people, testing the ratio of muscle gain vs. fat gain on a bulk resp. fat loss vs. muscle loss on a cut, both with a certain rate of weight change?

I will attempt to answer that question if you answer the question I asked before, you did not answer: What is your background for understanding the methodology of research in the biological sciences? My sense is you have very little to none. That does not make you a bad person, just a person who keeps making stats 101 mistakes, and statements that tell me you lack the required background for any real conversation on the issue. BTW, many of the latest studies on supps can be found on my web site, my blog, etc.

I don't tend to get into debates with physicists about the nature of black holes. Why? Because my physics knowledge is limited and so I defer to those who have the background for understanding the physics (such as it's known) behind black holes.

Also you mentioned that you do your own emperical studies using feedback from your clients.

That is not true. Read carefully what I said, specifically regarding comments between the differences between subjective experimentation vs objective research following proper methodology that is able to account for/control all the variables so we have a high degree of confidence X supp has Y effects.

Feedback from clients and users is not objective research. Now, you can gather good impirical evidence for an effect as your focus has been, and that's fine, but don't mistake it for actual objective research.

What is the result on those basic supp ingredients regarding the mentioned ratio?

Depends on the supp and as it's subjective feedback vs true objective research, I take it all with a grain of salt. If the feedback mirrors the research, all the better. Some times it does not, and then you have to balance the strength and quality of that research with the amount and strength of the feedback, which is another issue...

I admit that I'm not up-to-date with the latest studies, so I would be interested if there actually are studies opposing my experience.

[wavelength]

I will attempt to answer that question if you answer the question I asked before, you did not answer: What is your background for understanding the methodology of research in the biological sciences? My sense is you have very little to none. That does not make you a bad person, just a person who keeps making stats 101 mistakes, and statements that tell me you lack the required background for any real conversation on the issue. BTW, many of the latest studies on supps can be found on my web site, my blog, etc.

I don't tend to get into debates with physicists about the nature of black holes. Why? Because my physics knowledge is limited and so I defer to those who have the background for understanding the physics (such as it's known) behind black holes.

I never claimed background in biological sciences. I do have background in science in general. I don't know too much about the nature of black holes either, but I do know the limits of science in general. I know e.g. that physics cannot explain my existence as a human being. Scientific theories are always only a description of the world using certain restricted models of it. Natural science does not explain anything. My point is that what you claim to be a requirement for a level-headed discussion is not needed at all for the purpose in question. If that's your opinion however, you are right, you will only be able to teach me and not have a discussion between equals.

I read a few articles on your site. However, I could not find one that would fit my requirements. That's why I asked.

That is not true. Read carefully what I said, specifically regarding comments between the differences between subjective experimentation vs objective research following proper methodology that is able to account for/control all the variables so we have a high degree of confidence X supp has Y effects.

Feedback from clients and users is not objective research. Now, you can gather good impirical evidence for an effect as your focus has been, and that's fine, but don't mistake it for actual objective research.

Of course, I understand. But if the needed objective studies have not been performed, your experience can at least be an indicator. You told me that what you advise your clients to do is exactly my method. I would just be interested in the results of others using that method.

Depends on the supp and as it's subjective feedback vs true objective research, I take it all with a grain of salt. If the feedback mirrors the research, all the better. Some times it does not, and then you have to balance the strength and quality of that research with the amount and strength of the feedback, which is another issue...

What's important is for what supp ingredients objective studies have been seriously performed as defined in my first question.

----

My questions have been answered in a different thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238394.msg3362010#msg3362010

[MartyMcFly]

I'm sorry , and i mean no disrespect, you seem very intelligent...

but your a lost cause, wave length  

Your just too stubborn and hard headed. The fact that there are alot of very beneficial supplements on the market today has been prooven already. You cant admit it, or just cant see it.  




One other thing... if what someone 'feels' has to be dismissed... then how YOU 'feel' about supplements not working for you when you tried them must be dismissed as well. Supplements do work, but they are not drugs. You have already said your natural, you have said you do things like running, you have said you have a low calorie diet.... supplements are beneficial, but not to the point that you would have been able to notice a difference in your body composition after 6 months time. Not the way you diet + train + natural status. The fact that you "FEEL" that they didn't do anything for you, that must be dismissed.  


And 'feeling' stronger definitely does help bodybuilding goals. lifting heavier weights means more muscle stimulation, more glycogen depletion, more pump, more test, more gh, more igf-1, more insulin sensitivity, more lipolysis, more protein synthesis...  

great post.

[DK II]

I like Liv 52 for your liver, and colostrum which is wicked as fuck for immunity & growth.

all placebo.

[DK II]

It rebuilds your thymus (immunity) gland.

that looks like a sale.

post some legit studies, not a commercial, please.

[DK II]

I can't hold your hand all your life, start cracking the books and do your own research.

lol!

Translation: Sorry, i have no proof at all, because it doesn't exist.


We have had the colostrum discussion for a few times here, as sad as it is, but there is no proof it does anything for you bb wise.
There's tons of stuff that will boost your immune system, no need to buy expensive stuff like colostrum for this.

[Necrosis]

It rebuilds your thymus (immunity) gland.

the thymus shrinks in size from childhood onward and becomes less involved with immunity.

[DK II]

Not more than any other protein as well. And, regarding the 10 bucks, thats what i would pay for one shake with colostrum here in germany.

[DK II]

Thanks for the idea, but even buying it on ebay will give me high shipping cost and toll. I just checked it again, for fun: 100 CAPS with 600mg colostrum each cost me 70 euros. Thats pretty expensive, dont you think?

[DK II]

Go to PuritansPridesale.com then, that's the cheapest I've found.

like i said, i live in germany. Shipping of an appropriate amount (=weight) will cost me a lot, PLUS i don't even know if it isn't forbidden to import colostrum from the US.

A lot of dairy products are forbidden to import due to diseases.

[calfzilla]

-Multivitamin
-Vitamin C
-Chromium
-Vanadyl
-BCAA
-Creatine
-Fat burner
-COQ10 
-Fish oil

[jknightx]

I have never found any supplement that works as good as they claim,no2  with creatine gave me great pumps  and thats about it,i do use the ephedrine during spring and summer,but the price is gettting a little high.I am sick of useless sups.I f I could get the real stuff I would do it in a second because my trainnning time is very limited and I am old now and the old body just does not recover the way it use too.

[Charlys69]

my supps

- Whey-Isolate
- BCAA/EAA´S
- Creatine
- Beta-Alanine
- Zink
- Mg
- Pre-Workout-Formula (NO-Shotgun, Labrada,...other)
- Vita-Mineral-Trace-Elements A-Z
- Vit. C
- Joint-support (Glukosamine-Chrond.-MSM)
- Omega III

[wolverine0904]

well here's my top


- Multi-Vitamin (I like NOW Adam, it seems to have a good amount of most of vitamins and minerals)
- Protein (Whey and Casein) (I suggest optimum nutrition because they generally have a blend of EAA & BCAA in each scoop along with Glutamine)
- EAA & BCAA
- EFA
- Creatine Ethyl Ester (as opposed to monohydrate because it causes weight gain)
- Joint Support (Glucosamine)
- Antioxidants (milk thistle, glutathione, vitamin C)

Don't think you need anything else.

[Stacker21]

the real top 10 for bodybuilding
1. good multi
2. at least 1 gram of protein per body pound
3. good source of carbs wit low sugar( carb slam, vitargo cgl, volu grow, cyto carb...)
4. anti oxidants, great frm gnc n ther multi
5. at least 10 grams of glutamine
6. aminos
7. nitric oxide isnt mandatory but wil give a great pump n a kick n ur ass(best= xl evol, black powder, juggernaut)(worst= no plasmacore, nano vapor, no xplode, no shotgun)
8. recovery product( mass recovery, dark matter, or 221 recovery)
9. fish oils
10. if u dnt consume enough calories weight gainer( muscle juice, iso mass, procomplex gainer)

Just wondering why you named plasmacore as a worst supplement?  Not trying to go against you, I havent tried but was thinking about tit.  Al reviews say it is awesome

[kevsworld]

Here's mine:

1. Multivitamin
2. Protein (usually whey poweder)
3. Creatine

These are the only three I really use on a regular basis.

[benchmstr]

as of the last few months

protien powder: i drink a few a day

quercetin: 1000mg a day

vitamin D3: 4000iu a day

yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day

B12 complex: 1ML a week

vitamin c: a lot

bench

[benchmstr]

i also drink 2 pro biotic drinks a day-strawberry flavored.

bench

[Necrosis]

as of the last few months

protien powder: i drink a few a day

quercetin: 1000mg a day

vitamin D3: 4000iu a day

yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day

B12 complex: 1ML a week

vitamin c: a lot

bench

why the quercetin? allergies? mood?

anything in particular?

if its asthma/allergies you could add a couple things to the mix.

[tbombz]

i take fish oil, and sometimes a multi vitamin.

[HammerThePro]

My top 10

Multi
Fish oil
Protein
Xtend
Creatine

Neogenix Supremecy stack if you want a test booster...

Ok not ten but that's all I take

[calfzilla]

In my supplement cabinet I have: 

whey protein
chromium
multi vit
BCAA
fish oil
coQ10
liver support
NAC 
creatine

[Necrosis]

In my supplement cabinet I have: 

whey protein
chromium
multi vit
BCAA
fish oil
coQ10
liver support
NAC 
creatine

not bad at all, im really liking cq1o for a number of reasons.

[benchmstr]

as of the last few months

protien powder: i drink a few a day

quercetin: 1000mg a day-stopped taking, this stuff reeks havoc on my allergies

vitamin D3: 4000iu a day-down to 1000iu a day

yohimbine HCL: 2.5-5.0 mg a day

B12 complex: 1ML a week...ran out, so i havent taken any in awhile

vitamin c: a lot...changed to ester-c

bench

revised

bench