STEVE REEVES- behind the scenes (only for getbiggers,,only on getbig!)

[LurkerNoMore]

Funny how all these pathetic people have "inside knowledge" the great Steve Reeves used steroids. A really weak grab for some attention. All these people have come out of the woodwork after Hercules died. Disgusting.

What is even sadder is that rather than post steroid related threads on the steroid forum, he comes here where there is a bigger audience.  What an attention whore.

[timfogarty]

What is even sadder is that rather than post steroid related threads on the steroid forum, he comes here where there is a bigger audience.  What an attention whore.

No it should be on Bodybuilding Fans & Friends!

[Cleanest Natural]

excellent point gh15 ...as ussual...and for the others again...ignorance is bliss

[dknole]

ok. take pen and paper and sit down for history of hormones in bodybuilding 101,,an elective credit course  out of gh15 mouth free of charge. it's going to be long,,but it is the ONLY truth when it comes to bodybuilding history and bodybuilding as a whole. there will be no exam at the end i will not take questions at the end. of the course it is a lecture,, so leave the questions for another day and time.

first,,i would like to start with a review of myself:

1) i am a VERY femiliar face very high regarded IFBB professional athlete,,there is not even one person in the bodybuilding industry that havent seen me or heard about my name. i WON not only competed BUT won proffessional shows before.

2) this lecure will include the such and such of bodybuilding early era (eugene, grimek, steve, bill and many more that due to limited space i wont be able to mention here) it will include key factor in that early bodybuilding era.

3) you MUST understand that i TOO like steve,, inorder for you to be able to read this all without getting crazy mad and smoke coming out of your ears. i DO respect reeves for his contribution to the bodybuilding industry and see him as one of all time best.
i write this as an education for you and your peers and anything i say here that tarnish steve reputation is not meant to do so. this is only for you to learn and penetrate deeper into the hormone/stimulant arena of the late 30s and 40s.

4) im aware of the fact that some of you younger guys (im not talking about guys in their 40s) have steve as a big role model and he deserves this spot. he passed away now for years and it is like open a pandora box for nothing you will think. i think it is good education and i think it will help you decide the way you want to persue your bodybuilding life,,(wether naturally with specific low doses of products or chemically enhanced with taking your physiqe into the higher extreme levels of the npc competition)

5) quotes will NOT be provided since i am writing out of my vast knowledge and experience on myself and on "natural athletes" and chemical enhanced athletes,,i dont have time to go look for quotes for you on the internet or bring in old dead gurus out of the grave. if 240 wants or any other computer specialist,,they will be able to provide you with quotes and references.

6) the lecute will be mostly about steve as the base and everything around it (like an octopus and its many arms) due to late debate about this subject. again steve reeves WAS natural in todays terms. 100% NATURAL IN TODAY'S TERMINOLOGY. he only experiemented with hormones/drugs in their rough stages of development.


so lets start.

"and then there came steve reeves...."

the 19th century was full of books and lliterature about hormones and stimulants for their ability to help human kind. many writers wrote about it and fantesize about it exactly like many sci fi writers fantesized about the red planet and the journy to get there.

bodybuilding was nothing those days and rarely you would find someone who was involved in any type of body-building beside eugene and few select others. they did it with passion to live healthier and "extend" their life spans. they were NATURALS in the real essense of the word,,meaning they built their end physiqe on resistance training and food only (ofcourse there were caffine later on but it was natural) they had no sophisticated supplements either. nothing but good ole food. this era ended with eugene sadly. no one ever came to this level and no one will because the world has evolved and science became reality.

the 20th century brought a lot of promises with it. people were more interested in improving their body and life styles for other than health reasons. it became fashionable along the century in addition to a way of living due the progess achieved by medical research of those early 20s century years.

in all along the beggingin of the 20th century researches experiemnted through trial and error with specific compounds such as insulin etc inorder to eventually someday make it marketable. in 1924 or 25 ely lilly a famous company in usa has produced insulin after long time of research. it helped  A LOT of people and in my opinion one of the best hormones of the century with aspects to medical use.
ofcourse it changed the powerlifting and bodybuilding (bodybuilding was a tiny little fun those days) tremendesly!

untill the year of 1925 EVERYTHING in powerlifting and body-building (resistance training) was N A T U R A L,,past 1925 it was going a different direction.

i could talk about grimek specifically but the main substance of this lecture is steve reeves because then,,THE HUMAN BODY and  bodybuilding was not marketable. pre steve reeves image there was only the will but there was no substance (as in frame and features) to work with commericaly to a satifying level. grimek was a very good bodybuilder that did experiement with the era rough compounds but his physiqe simply didnt cut it. he was indeed natural 100% in comparrison to todays "naturals" and chemical enhanced athletes.

THE STEVE REEVES BODYBUILDING ERA.

steve is the arnold of usa. he is the all american boy,, the ALL AMERICAN FRAT BOY IMAGE HAS BEEN DEVELOPED WITH STEVE REEVES IN MIND in the eyes of the american girls later on in the 60s and 70s. american pretty boy he was!. "and then came steve reeves.." is not a sentence that was said for nothing,,he was an all american pretty boy. he was tall, had wonderful frame, was nice and charming, he had what ever it takes. he was the HEART of the OCTOPUS body building wanted to become in usa. i repea,,t IN USA. no one cared about the rest of the world in those time. usa was ONLY usa when it comes to marketability of a bodybuilder.

inorder to understand steve reeves influence on the sport of bodybuilding better you need to know the support group and major people of the era that were the BRAIN of the octopus. i will introduce them here to a degree. these individuals contributed more than the athlete itself to the success of bodybuilding and power lifting in the usa and ofcourse around the world later on. they are all good people with good intentions and i respect them all. and here they are: mr. berry, mr johnson, mr blair, mr eugene SCHIFF, mr atlas, mr weider joe, mr hoffman, and ofcourse mr ziegler.

there you have it more or less,,the brain of the octopus. all of these individuals were and wanted  make money out of bodybuilding and  had to find a star in order to make the baby octopus a big and long armed one. the chosen one was steeve reeves. not to forget!! joe weider came to the scene in 1939-40 and soon later mr reeves popped up..he also only competed between 47 and 50 or 46-50 if my memory serves me correctly and thats because he was by then and only then ready (pay attention to the years).

joe weider is and was BODYBUILDING. he is the SOLE reason  modern bodybuilding started and the sole reason bodybuilding will continue. he was the CONNECTION in a big chain of chimical reactions that could never happen unless he was there due to his enormous human skills and his ability to talk you into anything he believed in,,inaddition to his vast knowledge of individuals in diff fields who contributed to the industry some of whom are mentioned in this lecture.

the rest of the above mentioned individual were very important to bodybuilding in their own way and time but! the connection to the HORMONE WORLD was established late in the 30s and early in the 40s by mr weider and the most important person in this lecture beside steve,, and it is MR ZIEGLER.

mr ziegler was the brain and knowledge behind steve reeves enourmous advancment as a bodybuilder. joe weider was the cheerleader and the human skill factor that connected the "willing" people with the "right" people thus i name him "THE GLUE". those 2 brought steve reeves from a pretty boy young man to FAME as a pure usa bodybuilder. from there the way to movies was piece of cake since steve was both pretty boy and gained the muscle needed through training and experiemnting to be uniqe for that time in history.

now,,,after clarifying the brain behind reeves and "THE GLUE" (joe weider) we can take a look at how mr ziengler helped steve reeves.

mr ziegler was a doctor.  DOCTOR FOR THE ATHLETES that worked with usa teams. not to forget! in those days a doctor was a king or a god depending on how you see it. he was invloved in rehabilitation therapy and had UNLIMITED acess to anything in the research industry. and oh he acsessed it he surely did with the full support from "THE GLUE".

john was very "connected" to the pharmacutical firm CIBA,,in other words he experiemnted with raw products all through the 40s. very high regarded products that were REAL PHARMA MADE. he had open approach to science and was very good with his research. he experiemnted with version of teststerone on himself ofcourse and then he continued with the general rich patient of his and THE ATHLETES he chose to.

the MAIN CHOSEN ATHLETE for john to work with a young guy by the name of STEVE. the chosen one according to "THE GLUE" had to be a novice,,someone that poses potential and not a joe shmoe,,someone BEAUTIFUL that can push the "health industry" into the eyes of the typical american family of the post WW2.

as i mentioned before CIBA and "THE GLUE" were very much in the chase for introducing american athletes especially body-builders to the testosterone hormone and since 1946 they were pushing it exteremly hard so from 1946 the researches on STEVE were a lot more consistant.

to make a story short,,,10 years later that same mr john ziegler introduced the popular dianabol tablet (derivative of testosterone) into the market produced by CIBA and it was a common house hold product of each and every bodybuilder from grimek in his later years through bill that extended it to the use of nilevar (another very good drug) through a consistant and very organized use of bodybuilders like larry. larry was already using it like candies spread along the day. those were the days animals and humans became alike in many ways atleast drug wise.

getting back to the experiements ziegler conducted with young steve there were other products they tried to see the wat the testosterone will react with them. ziegler tried a fat burner called DNP on steve along with testosterone propionate in its rough older version. insulin another favorite hormone i talked about earlier in this lesson was also experiemented with inorder to see the reaction of the 3 compounds with eachother for muscle building and muscle retaining purposes ONLY. DOCTOR ziegler had an open acess to ANY compound he decided he wanted to research and had a complete back up of CIBA pharmacuticals.

so there we have it: THE BRAIN,,THE GLUE,,AND THE GOLDEN BOY. the creation of modern bodybuilding in its better days when every one was innocent. the researches were very interesting and they also helped the golden boy achieving his dreams. it helped every one in many ways . one became a tycoon of money and the leader i OUTMOST respect,,,yes i respect joe a lot,,,one became the inventor of the best most sold hormone in the sports world and he did regret it at the end of his live BUT he will forever be thankful by us bodybuilders,,and ofcourse it helped us the next generations to realize dreams we never thought were possible,,it helped us achieve wonderful careers and see places we would never see otherwize all through the 60s and 70s.

then came the  late 70s early 80s and the ABUSE started. and abuse brought us down to a level that to me is very shocking. a level that got to its lower with the murderer as of recently.


to back up this lecture with literature i am attaching here underneath an article about the researches done with testosterone all along the 20th century. the article is not exactly accurate but i approve it more or less.

i hope you enjoyed it and again this isnot inorder to bring someone down BUT inorder to build someone up!

we,,the industry,, are in trouble,,bodybuilding as you know it will end with ron coleman this is the max a human can develop himself. i do not think bodybuilding will ever stop its existance,,,but the physiqe you see now it at its max development.

end

*copy and save this lesson,, it is a tresure for any new and upcoming bodybuilder wether you are natural or enhanced. i would charge close to $1500 for a one hour lecture such as this.




article

Testosterone Dreams

Sex, doctors, and the male hormone


Testosterone dreams are the fantasies of hormonal rejuvenation, sexual excitement, and supernormal athletic performances that have been inspired by testosterone drugs since the “male hormone” testosterone was first synthesized in 1935. Shortly after testosterone was produced in a European laboratory, following a competition among three pharmaceutical companies, Time magazine reported that: “German and Swiss chemical laboratories are already prepared … to manufacture from sheep’s wool all the testosterone the world needs to cure homosexuals (and) revitalize old men.” Imaginative interpretations of the power of hormones—a word that was invented in 1905—proliferated for decades even before the eventual synthesis of testosterone. “Attempts have been made to explain even psychic processes such as emotions and states of mind through the increase or diminution or alterations of this or that gland,” as one scientist noted in Endocrinology in 1919. In short, hormonal substances were granted a power to shape personality and produce euphoric states that they have retained to this day.

Over the past seven decades, the growing use of testosterone and its derivatives, the anabolic-androgenic steroids, have demonstrated that many people around the world are interested in using testosterone products for a variety of purposes. These practices run the gamut from legal procedures such as “anti-aging” therapies, which employ these androgenic drugs with synthetic human growth hormone, to the illegal use of anabolic steroids by many bodybuilders, athletes, and some policemen, who view physical strength and aggression as requirements for performing on stage, in the stadium, or on the street. The use of synthetic testosterone as a sexual stimulant is also becoming increasingly common among older people who belong to a generation that increasingly regards sexual fulfillment as a lifelong entitlement.

Sexuality in conservative times
Testosterone became a charismatic drug during the 1940s because it promised sexual stimulation and renewed energy. Physicians described the optimal effect of testosterone drugs as a feeling of “well-being,” a term that has been used many times since the 1940s to characterize their positive effect on mood. In the early 1940s testosterone was hailed in pharmaceutical advertising as a mood-altering drug whose primary purpose was the sexual restoration and reenergizing of aging males. It appeared at that time that an inexpensive supply, widespread demand, and favorable medical opinion would soon produce a major market for testosterone products.

The first public advocate of testosterone therapy for aging men was the popular science journalist Paul de Kruif, whose manifesto The Male Hormone was published with some fanfare in 1945. Excerpted in Reader’s Digest and promoted by a full-page review in Newsweek (“Hormones for He-Men”), The Male Hormone was in some respects a prophetic book. The potential market for a rejuvenating male hormone seemed to be enormous: “How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’”

Testosterone did not become a mass market drug in the 1940s due to the sexual conservatism of most American physicians and the society they served. The belief that testosterone was a stimulating drug made it a potential threat to sexual morality as well as a promising therapy. Sensational coverage had given the male hormone a quasi-pornographic image that its female counterpart estrogen had never acquired. Commenting on testosterone’s unsavory reputation in 1946, Science Digest reported that “the uninformed continue to believe that the sole use of this innocent chemical is to turn sexual weaklings into wolves, and octogenarians into sexual athletes.”

The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental “cure” for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: “If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.”

The idea that the bodies of homosexuals contained less male hormone and more female hormone than those of heterosexuals first appeared in 1935. By 1940 a number of investigators were confident enough in their ability to assay hormone levels to claim that homosexuality was rooted in abnormal sex hormone ratios rather than the psychological complexes hypothesized by Freud and others. “It seems,” one research team wrote, “that the constitutional homosexual has a different sex hormone chemistry than the normal male.” The fallacy of this therapeutic rationale became evident soon enough. Testosterone propionate combined with chorionic gonadotropin was not curing homosexuals, even in studies that encouraged belief in the drug and did not compare its effects with those of a placebo. In fact, it was becoming increasingly clear that androgens did not reverse but actually intensified homosexual libido, so that “sometimes instead of helping one gets a worsening of the condition.”

Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual “frigidity” in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders. In 1947 a team of authors noted that over the previous decade “the effect of androgens in increasing libido in women has been an almost universal observation.” It appeared that androgens influenced libido in three ways, “causing a) a heightened susceptibility to psychic stimulations; b) increased sensitivity of the external genitalia, particularly of the clitoris and c) greater intensity of sexual gratification.” Perhaps the most interesting point about these scientifically primitive observations is that they have been repeatedly confirmed by later investigators."......

....The idea that women are the principal cause of sexual problems in marriage has been a staple of medical folklore for more than a century. Men were assumed to have a stronger sexual impulse than women. Over the many years the term was in circulation, the medical literature always assigned sexual “frigidity” exclusively to women. The disorder once known as male “impotence,” and that was eventually rechristened “erectile dysfunction,” never carried the same stigma of emotional deficiency and personal inadequacy. Impotence was an unfortunate physiological problem, while “frigidity” signaled a defective personality and a failure to live up to a wife’s marital obligations. Some (male) doctors knew perfectly well that a great deal of the “frigidity” displayed by wives was the direct result of sexually ignorant or indifferent husbands. A 1931 JAMA editorial, for example, argues that most female “frigidity” is caused by the emotional disinterest of husbands who had “obtained their premarital knowledge of the sexual act from intercourse with prostitutes” whose sexual gratification was of no interest to the paying customer.

The medical literature offered various cures for female “frigidity.” During the 1930s and 1940s these included the use of electricity to sensitize the vaginal mucous membrane: “The treatment consists in inserting a large vaginal electrode into the vagina, connecting it with the negative pole, while the positive pole is connected with a wet abdominal electrode, the galvanic current is allowed to pass for about ten minutes. Without disturbing the electrodes, we now give the sinusoidal-galvanic current for another ten minutes. No pain must be caused by the treatment.” Other commentators, as noted, recommended sexual education for the many husbands who appeared to know nothing about female sexual anatomy or psychology. It was during the 1930s that proposals to use hormonal substances to boost female sex drive began to appear with increasing frequency in the medical literature.

By the end of that decade synthetic testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone had become, in effect, experimental drugs that were being used for various (and, in retrospect, usually mistaken) clinical purposes. Megadoses sometimes amounting to thousands of milligrams that were intended to neutralize estrogen-driven breast cancers were one application. One of the unofficial dogmas of this early period was that the male hormone would sexually stimulate men and that estrogens would have a similar effect on women. Androgens were sometimes applied to the penis, while estrogens were applied to the clitoris. The discovery that testosterone sexually stimulated females thus came as a shock to the physicians who observed this effect. A 1941 paper reports the author’s reaction to this phenomenon in both young and old women: “My attention was first drawn to it by several elderly women who found the resurgence of libido distressing. The phenomenon is equally as striking among young women. A number of married women, who had considered themselves frigid, stated that after receiving the testosterone propionate injections they experienced a marked increase in coital gratification, culminating in an orgasm.”

gh15 - you may espouse to know drugs, but geesh, you cannot write, spell or use any proper grammar at all. Stereotypical body builder...strong, but dumb as nails...

[Joey Tito]

GH is a liar.

There's been some talk that GH is Markus R.  That's bullshit.  I talk to Markus a couple times a month.  He doesn't come on this board (or any one for that matter).  The impostor is purposely using bad English to mislead.

[bmacsys]

excellent point gh15 ...as ussual...and for the others again...ignorance is bliss

Then GH15 surely is in "bliss"

[body88]

gh15 is the type of fag who hangs out within 15 feet of fellow "pros" and think he knows them personally.

[Heywood]

First tell me what John Fair and Bill Starr believe.  One is an historian and the other a writer (for York) and an eye witness and knew the subjects of many of these events, and then let's go from there. 

If you wish to believe outside that basic sphere of knowledge, then do so.   The CIA made those WTC towers explode on 9/11.  The list of beliefs goes on...


A sample of Bill Starr's writings in this area:
--------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the Rack Pt 3

by Bill Starr


Those who had a connection to York had learned about the magic pink pills. Dianabol started out as a pink pill, and then the color was changed to blue. Don’t ask me why. The point is, those outside the circle remained ignorant of the athletes’ steroid use. Even after I moved to York to become Tommy’s assistant at Strength & Health, I still didn’t find out about Dianabol until I’d been there for six months. Once word started to spread, it swept across the country like a wildfire. The cat was out of the box, and as Ziegler predicted, it was Pandora’s box that had been opened.

I want to clear up a common mis­conception here: York lifters, other than March, did not get Dianabol from Ziegler. He adamantly refused any requests for the drug and encouraged Hoffman not to assist them in getting it from other sour­ces. His advice fell on deaf ears. Hof­fman liked the advantage the steroid gave his lifters and made arrangements with a physician in York who provided it free of charge. Di­anabol became part of the recruitment package. Represent the York Barbell Club, and received pro­­tein, vitamins, sweats, T-shirts, travel expenses to meets and anabolic steroids. Not unexpectedly, with a residency rule requiring lifters to live in the area where their team was based set aside, the York team grew quickly. When it came to weightlifting, Bob Hoffman was the AAU.

Lifters from California to Texas to New York and everywhere in between discovered that when they started taking Dianabol, it didn’t matter how they trained. They still made fast gains. The opinion among lifters was that the great progress that March and Riecke made was a direct result of the anabolics and that isometrics was a smokescreen—a well-designed hoax to sell courses and racks. Isometrics and isotonic-isometrics fell out of favor as fast as they had shot to the forefront.

The truth of the matter, though, is that Ziegler’s rack programs did contribute to the gains made by the test subjects. And all the other lifters—such as Garcy, Bartholomew and Bednarski—also used the program he set down. What got lost because of Hoffman’s subterfuge was the hard-and-true fact that rack training is one of the very best ways to increase strength, particularly the isotonic-isometric system.

I have used it on advanced athletes at the three colleges where I served as strength coach. Every one of them responded favorably, and none were taking steroids. The gains they made were a direct result of the training system, not an ergogenic aid.

The primary reason that isometric training is not a part of strength programs today is coaches don’t understand the basic concepts well enough to be able to teach it to their players. And unless they were taught the system by Ziegler, they are totally unaware of the subtleties involved—or, more correctly, unless they were taught by the doctor or by someone who learned from the doctor. Coaches stay with what they know. It’s safer than venturing into uncharted territory, especially when their jobs depend on the progress made by their athletes.

Even so, when I teach isometric training to coaches and athletes at clinics, they learn the technique readily because it’s so simple. That’s another reason rack training isn’t in common use: Complicated is considered better than simple. Chains, rubber bands, elaborate machines and contraptions have to produce more strength than just lifting a weighted bar a few inches and then holding it against a set of pins for 12 seconds. That’s the current thinking, but it’s wrong. There’s no better way to gain strength than by doing isotonic-isometrics.

Obviously, you must have a power rack in order to use this system. On the ideal rack the holes for the pins are set close together, and the uprights should be wide enough apart to enable you to perform a wide range of exercises. If your routine includes overhead lifts, such as military presses or jerks, you want the rack to be higher than the finish position of the movements.

If the power rack that’s available to you doesn’t meet all of those standards, you can still do some isos. Whenever I encountered a rack that didn’t have the holes close together, I resorted to standing on two-by-fours to get the exact position I was seeking. Since I wouldn’t be moving my feet during the iso, it didn’t pose a problem.

The question arises: What positions in the rack are the best to do? The answer is, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. A bodybuilder would select different exercises from a shot-putter, and an Olympic lifter would do a different routine from what a powerlifter uses. In other words, your iso workout should be sport specific. For example, powerlifters have little use for overhead power, so there’s no reason for them to include any pressing positions in the rack. Instead they’ll benefit by selecting various benching placements.

[NarcissisticDeity]

john was very "connected" to the pharmacutical firm CIBA,,in other words he experiemnted with raw products all through the 40s. very high regarded products that were REAL PHARMA MADE. he had open approach to science and was very good with his research. he experiemnted with version of teststerone on himself ofcourse and then he continued with the general rich patient of his and THE ATHLETES he chose to.

the MAIN CHOSEN ATHLETE for john to work with a young guy by the name of STEVE. the chosen one according to "THE GLUE" had to be a novice,,someone that poses potential and not a joe shmoe,,someone BEAUTIFUL that can push the "health industry" into the eyes of the typical american family of the post WW2.

as i mentioned before CIBA and "THE GLUE" were very much in the chase for introducing american athletes especially body-builders to the testosterone hormone and since 1946 they were pushing it exteremly hard so from 1946 the researches on STEVE were a lot more consistant.

You claim Zeigler was very connected to Ciba and experimented throughout the ' 40s ' with raw products and he researches on Steve were a lot more consistant in 1946 and this statement ( among others ) shows you're full of shit because Zeigler didn't start working for Ciba until 1954 !!

So if you can't provide proof for your claim I can provide proof that directly contradicts your claims and proves you simply making shit up.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND seems determined to the point of obsession with denying that Reeves ever used the gear, basing all of his evidence on the fact that REEVES HIMSELF denied it
People that have at one time denied using the gear:
Reeves
Scott
Arnold
Armstrong
Gatlin
Jones
Ronnie
What do they all have in common?
People say they've never done steroids because they think it makes them look as though they have awesome genetics - that they are above mere mortals who have to resort to 'cheating' by using the gear. Pathetic.
You've lost this one ND.

Again for every person you claim didn't do steroids I can post scores of who said they did and all past champions so your claim carries no weight

Arnold Schwarzenegger
Franco Colombu
Frank Zane
Sergio Oliva
Dave Draper
Bill Pearl
Dorian Yates
Lee Priest
Shawn Ray
Flex Wheeler
Bob Paris
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Robby Robinson
Tom Platz
Mike Menzter
Ray Mentzer
Lou Ferrfigno


I can keep going but you get the point. using logic & common sense Reeves entertaining he did use would have zero reason to lie about it , none what so ever.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND: what quantities did Bob Paris take?  Did "Gorilla Suit" explain this?

To be honest with you I don't recall if he discusses ammounts or not its been a long time since I read the book , I'd had to check it again . I just finished Beyond The Universe by Bill Pearl good book , he admits his very brief experiment with steroids in the late 60s .

[alexxx]

Again for every person you claim didn't do steroids I can post scores of who said they did and all past champions so your claim carries no weight

Arnold Schwarzenegger
Franco Colombu
Frank Zane
Sergio Oliva
Dave Draper
Bill Pearl
Dorian Yates
Lee Priest
Shawn Ray
Flex Wheeler
Bob Paris
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Robby Robinson
Tom Platz
Mike Menzter
Ray Mentzer
Lou Ferrfigno


I can keep going but you get the point. using logic & common sense Reeves entertaining he did use would have zero reason to lie about it , none what so ever.

I take offence to the following and demand proof that they where not natural athletes!

[gh15]

the most important thing for me in writing this piece was for ANY bodybuilder wether begginer or advanced to know the truth behind bodybuilding and drug use,,to know the truth behind pharmacutical research and drug use by modern bodybuilder(ziegler did not work for ciba in the 40s he was doing the experiemnts from his own clinic working with the knowledge support and raw material coming out of ciba,, big diff!). this is also the ONLY SINGLE reason i still visit this board.

all the responds are woderful wether you agree with it or not,,wether you like my writing style or not ,,it is personal preference. to me the most important thing was to make sure the younger generation reads it,,the 16-21 upcoming kids.

there is nothing else i can add to this piece because the more i read it the more masterful i think it is. it is hardcore bodybuilding from within. the way it was the way it is and the way it will always be till its death IF ever.

the amount of PMs im getting is all good,,please understand im not a machine,,so answers to pms will come whenever i have time for it. thankds

[NarcissisticDeity]

the most important thing for me in writing this piece was for ANY bodybuilder wether begginer or advanced to know the truth behind bodybuilding and drug use,,to know the truth behind pharmacutical research and drug use by modern bodybuilder(ziegler did not work for ciba in the 40s he was doing the experiemnts from his own clinic working with the knowledge support and raw material coming out of ciba,, big diff!). this is also the ONLY SINGLE reason i still visit this board.

all the responds are woderful wether you agree with it or not,,wether you like my writing style or not ,,it is personal preference. to me the most important thing was to make sure the younger generation reads it,,the 16-21 upcoming kids.

there is nothing else i can add to this piece because the more i read it the more masterful i think it is. it is hardcore bodybuilding from within. the way it was the way it is and the way it will always be till its death IF ever.

the amount of PMs im getting is all good,,please understand im not a machine,,so answers to pms will come whenever i have time for it. thankds

Now you're backpeddling again , stop you've been exposed for being a lair . this is your direct quote

john was very "connected" to the pharmacutical firm CIBA,,in other words he experiemnted with raw products all through the 40s. very high regarded products that were REAL PHARMA MADE. he had open approach to science and was very good with his research. he experiemnted with version of teststerone on himself ofcourse and then he continued with the general rich patient of his and THE ATHLETES he chose to.

the MAIN CHOSEN ATHLETE for john to work with a young guy by the name of STEVE. the chosen one according to "THE GLUE" had to be a novice,,someone that poses potential and not a joe shmoe,,someone BEAUTIFUL that can push the "health industry" into the eyes of the typical american family of the post WW2.

as i mentioned before CIBA and "THE GLUE" were very much in the chase for introducing american athletes especially body-builders to the testosterone hormone and since 1946 they were pushing it exteremly hard so from 1946 the researches on STEVE were a lot more consistant.

he did NOT start working at Ciba until 1954 , you stated a matter of factly he was very connected to to Ciba and he experimented with raw products all through the 1940s . this simply isn't the case your whole story is nonsense.

[gh15]

listen kid,,i asked you nicely to stop bringing steve reeves back into this because the more you talk the worse he looks. you dont pay attention. now you are blaming me for lies and by that you making yourself look like a complete fool. relax i just got a request from that mahem board and another growing board to allow it to be posted there so relax because its getting out of hand.

 i charge a lot of money from words coming out of my mind and time wasting resulted by me having to type back relax,,just let the bodybuilding community read it and absorb it, nothing said or done can change what happend 60-70 years ago now,, the key word of the day for you is: relax otherwise you will be th efirst one to get heart attack online

[Heywood]

 i charge a lot of money from words coming out of my mind and time wasting resulted by me having to type back relax,,just let the bodybuilding community read it and absorb it, nothing said or done can change what happend 60-70 years ago now,, the key word of the day for you is: relax otherwise you will be th efirst one to get heart attack online

Who are you billing for this fine piece of literature?

[JPM]

Now we are offered  a body building conspiracy theory involving The Brain, The Glue and The Golden Boy. From a man who appears to have his own giant ego on drugs. Delusion and disinformation seems to have taken over as recorded fact from gh15. And all for the noble cause of educating the 16-21 year old "kids". This man deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.  Or at least the character assassination award for 2006.

Would we consider that Reeves physical makeup was of a natural gifted, genetic muscle making machine?  A type of person, who if never had lifted a weight or did anything athletic in his life, would carry much more muscle mass (and less body fat) than the average male. I see a few like that among my Samoan bro's. Guy's with those hard 18+ guns who never trained in their lifes. One guy benched 335 for 8 reps the first and only time he tried it.  They don't train or have the desire to. The only drugs used are maybe a 40 or light one up now and than. gh15 is negelecting the stone cold fact that some of those old time body builders were in that natural, easy gainer class.  Given the fact that 'roids of that era were very mild, I would doubt that they had any noticeable bearing on the '40 & 50's era body builders.

 Gh15's self annointing nature, along with his rambling and confusing tome, give little credit to what he has written or produced. Fuzzie logic at it's worse. Self delusion passed off as knowledge and information. He might consider rehab. Good Luck.

[myseone]

Gh15 interesting article. Question: What do you consider the genetic uperlimits for a legitimate drug free man, say average height of 5ft 10in, with 8 percent body fat?

[gh15]

Gh15 interesting article. Question: What do you consider the genetic uperlimits for a legitimate drug free man, say average height of 5ft 10in, with 8 percent body fat?

5'10 8% completely drug and supp free can eat from the morning to the evening and from the evening to the morning and he wont see the number 200lb on the scale while remaining 8%. he might see the number 190 with 8%,, IF he got superman genetics which is not the case in 99% of the cases.

160-185 at 8% (or less) in majority of cases.

[NarcissisticDeity]

listen kid,,i asked you nicely to stop bringing steve reeves back into this because the more you talk the worse he looks. you dont pay attention. now you are blaming me for lies and by that you making yourself look like a complete fool. relax i just got a request from that mahem board and another growing board to allow it to be posted there so relax because its getting out of hand.

 i charge a lot of money from words coming out of my mind and time wasting resulted by me having to type back relax,,just let the bodybuilding community read it and absorb it, nothing said or done can change what happend 60-70 years ago now,, the key word of the day for you is: relax otherwise you will be th efirst one to get heart attack online

You can't even keep your story straight and its YOU who is attempting to make Steve Reeves look bad , you're directly contradicting his natural status and outright calling him a liar and you're doing so without any facts ! you claim Zeigler was well connected with Ciba throughout the 1940s and thats a proveable LIE , Zeigler DID NOT start working at Ciba until 1954. you're nothing more than a liar .

You charge a lot of money for the words comming out of your mind? I guess its true what P.T. Barnum said " there is a sucker born every minute. " you claim to be an IFBB pro if you're obviously lying about Reeves why would anyone believe any other part of your story? nevermind pay you for your dubious information ! you don't want to continue this conversation because you've been backed into a corner and became a victim of your own story , your own lies proved you wrong.

And you've again never once explained how you know this ' story ' to begin with , you've again went on at lenght , what he was taking , how long , when , and what was availble , there is no way on earth you could know this information even it were true , but again when directly confronted with the questions of how you personally know all this , you never once attempted to answer the questions lol thats a clear indication of what you know.

You're looking like a major fool right now , so what I expect is for you to make a few more attempts at justifying your story then its very likely we won't be seeing you post here much more , making up another story about how tons of people are dying for your time and willing to pay for it 

[gh15]

i suggest you ask yourself why no bodybuilders actually coming on here to argue on your behalf,,only few kids
i am not in arguments with you as i told you i like reeves too but the truth is stronger than anything my friend,,the fact of me answering you is to begin with showing that something is wrong with me youre a kid

[DK II]

i suggest you ask yourself why no bodybuilders actually coming on here to argue on your behalf,,only few kids
i am not in arguments with you as i told you i like reeves too but the truth is stronger than anything my friend,,the fact of me answering you is to begin with showing that something is wrong with me youre a kid

meltdown.

[bmacsys]

i suggest you ask yourself why no bodybuilders actually coming on here to argue on your behalf,,only few kids
i am not in arguments with you as i told you i like reeves too but the truth is stronger than anything my friend,,the fact of me answering you is to begin with showing that something is wrong with me youre a kid

Why would anyone believe you, an anonymous internet poster over Steve Reeves who was known for his integrity? Get over yourself.

[bmacsys]

The title of this thread tells the whole story. GH15 thinks he is the Walter Cronkite of Getbig.

[bmacsys]

If these drugs even existed in this era I seriously doubt they were readily available. Reeves competed from 1948 to 1953. This was right after WWII and during the Korean war. Pharmacuticals were in VERY short supply. How on earth would you obtain them?  Your spouting nothing but hearsay and lies.