FLEX vs MD: The battle gets dirty

[Mr. Michael Moore]

"The eagle does not chase the fly."

I think some people within a certain magazine should learn how to be a 'little more humble'!!!

I guess you're implying that the 'eagle', in this case, is FLEX mag, aren't you?

On what grounds are you necessarily considering FLEX as the eagle in this case?? I wouldn't say that, judging by the replies is this thread and the other one. Look how many members took sides with Flex mag on this matter, or even how many members like Flex mag better than MD.......

Just a hint.....

[IndustryInsider]

Peter,

Thanks for "Setting the record straight" for all of us.  I'm sure we can all sleep better at night now that you've gotten some name calling off your chest.  But after reading your diatribe I can't help but feel that things are not that rosy over there.  For something as routine as an MD potshot to drive you to put this together makes me think that the most recent news, about Flex being down 15.2% 1st half of '06 vs. first half of '05 in total circulation (ABC info), can't help but make things difficult for you during this tumultuous time of working while the publication is up for sale.

Peace

[Crusher]

Peter,

Thanks for "Setting the record straight" for all of us.  I'm sure we can all sleep better at night now that you've gotten some name calling off your chest.  But after reading your diatribe I can't help but feel that things are not that rosy over there.  For something as routine as an MD potshot to drive you to put this together makes me think that the most recent news, about Flex being down 15.2% 1st half of '06 vs. first half of '05 in total circulation (ABC info), can't help but make things difficult for you during this tumultuous time of working while the publication is up for sale.

Peace

OUCH!!!!

[UK Gold]

Horton, maybe you can answer this: who ghostwrites the articles in Flex? And does it piss you off that the integrity of your photos are compromised by the crap that accompanies them? [Ronnie sounding as though hes a bio chemist etc]

[kmhphoto]

Horton, maybe you can answer this: who ghostwrites the articles in Flex? And does it piss you off that the integrity of your photos are compromised by the crap that accompanies them? [Ronnie sounding as though hes a bio chemist etc]

I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.

[240 is Back]

I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.

Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate. 

It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).

It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this.  What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches?   What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything? 

Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?

[Cavalier22]

both are a waste of money.  but 30,000 sounds very low.

either way im sure King Kamali is rackin up $10000s each time his name appears in either issue

[Hedgehog]

Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate. 

It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).

It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this.  What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches?   What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything? 

Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?

This is a big problem with FLEX.

They're flat out lying when they ghost writes articles and columns.

My guess is that Ronnie Coleman doesn't even have an input on the answer. Is there a real question to begin with, or do the author just make it up? These are all questions that arises when the journalistic integrity of a magazine is lost to such a big degree as it currently is with FLEX.

There is a problem, it needs to be solved. I can understand the need, or the appeal, of using Pro BB's, and Mr O's, as experts. But then, make them answer for real, with a co-writer if they cannot write. Or at least have some disclaimer letting us know that the article is based on a phone conversation with Ronnie, and that Julian Schmidt wrote it.

FLEX should stop raping the journalistic code of ethics.

YIP
Zack

[bbinsider]

Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate. 

It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).

It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this.  What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches?   What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything? 

Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?

MD does it too.

[bbinsider]

Crusher, you mentioned that Joe Weider called Romano. How do you know it wasn't Weider returning Romano's call crying for press passes.

[kmhphoto]

Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate. 

It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).

It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this.  What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches?   What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything? 

Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?

I'm not defending FLEX here because all magazines do it, not just bodybuilding ones. So I'm defending all magazines.

It's not unknown in the broadsheet newspaper world for a columnist to provide 150 words and have the copywriters pad it out. Is that a lack of journalistic integrity?

Should we not read an auto-biography unless it is only written by the subject and not helped by someone more skilled? If we choose that, we are going to be very bored indeed.

Most of the training stuff I've done recently has been with Greg Merritt as the writer. We go tot the gym, I shoot, he watches, we leave, I'm done, then he's got to write about it and make it interesting. How the hell do you make a barbell curl interesting?

Now I enjoy reading Greg's articles and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people even on here do too? He's not only observed what happened he's also talked to the athlete and then created a story around that. If we relied on just the athlete to write it, it may not be as good. They are experts in their fields, Greg is in his.

Now to me the same goes for the athletes columns - jump on that innuendo if you want
As long as the content is based on what the bodybuilder actually says and it's just presented in a better way than he could do himself, I have no problem with it. It would be as dull as dish water otherwise and you'd still all be complaining!

Would you prefer each column to become a question and answer list?
"So David, what do you for chest"
"Bench Press"
How many sets?
"Six"
"How many reps"
"8"
"What you eat in the morning"
"Breakfast."

Some people complain that some of the lifts some athletes claim to use may be a little like a fishermans story of the one that got away. Well, if Ronnie Coleman wants to tell me he does 1000lbs on a bench press, I'm not going to argue. He's already come close to dropping some seriously heavy weight on my head, so I'm not going to upset him.

[dr.chimps]

I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.

When you start leaving answers with as much moral relativism as these, you've as much conceded the argument. Geesh. Aren't you dizzy from all the spinning? 

[abz]

Romano on Muscleradio.com saying Peter McGough is thin skinned.  Clearly, they are makin a move that is not well thought out, and will prove it will have a serious effect on how it will be brought out on the Olympia. Not a smart move on their part.

What is really boils down to is that the MD staff have to pay my own tickets. No big deal, we had to pay for them last year too. That is the way they want to play it. Bear in mind, this is the last year they can play this game. Bottom line is that there is not going to be as much coverage on the Olympia. MD gives me pre-Olympia coverage than any other magazine. There is going to be less exposure for the Olympia.

The sponsors will be disappointed. The fans will be disappointed too. Weider is a monopoly. They are trying to lock out MD. It is their prerogative, but they are not looking far down the road. And if Flex wants to do something, they cannot do anything about it.



Next year, Flex may be asking us for press passes.

Hey, if they don't want us there, we shouldn't go. If it was up to me, I wouldnt go as a journalist. I would go as a fan. I would like to see  if history is going to be made, to see if Ronnie will win or not.

Flex Wheeler is an MD guy and also the president of Hardbody Entertainment. He can you deny Flex a press pass? Is this not a conflict of interest? Things that he learned for Hardbody Entertainment cannot be used for MD. Robin Chang, Flex's best friend and godfather of his children, is the main guy of the Olympia.

Why should Flex be put in the middle of that. Flex is an icon of the sport, trying to embark on a second career.  Flex can take pictures from the front row - and he can do anything he wants with the pictures.

If there is anything bad with AMI and MD, it is because of AMI, not MD.  The Weider guys have very short memories. Way back in the 1990's when we first started, Peter McGough started taking pot shots at us first. Until I assumed a certain role in the magazine, there was nobody to answer all of the potshots. I don't take crap from anybody. Just just don't remember they started it. They can be in denial about it.

They are wallowing in the pot crying. They should listen and sit down with all the magazine publisher. We all meet somewhere in Wyoming, get together in private, and have a big summit. Every year. Make the sport better. In general, move the sport in a better direction.

[Hedgehog]

I'm not defending FLEX here because all magazines do it, not just bodybuilding ones. So I'm defending all magazines.

It's not unknown in the broadsheet newspaper world for a columnist to provide 150 words and have the copywriters pad it out. Is that a lack of journalistic integrity?

Should we not read an auto-biography unless it is only written by the subject and not helped by someone more skilled? If we choose that, we are going to be very bored indeed.

Most of the training stuff I've done recently has been with Greg Merritt as the writer. We go tot the gym, I shoot, he watches, we leave, I'm done, then he's got to write about it and make it interesting. How the hell do you make a barbell curl interesting?

Now I enjoy reading Greg's articles and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people even on here do too? He's not only observed what happened he's also talked to the athlete and then created a story around that. If we relied on just the athlete to write it, it may not be as good. They are experts in their fields, Greg is in his.

Now to me the same goes for the athletes columns - jump on that innuendo if you want
As long as the content is based on what the bodybuilder actually says and it's just presented in a better way than he could do himself, I have no problem with it. It would be as dull as dish water otherwise and you'd still all be complaining!

Would you prefer each column to become a question and answer list?
"So David, what do you for chest"
"Bench Press"
How many sets?
"Six"
"How many reps"
"8"
"What you eat in the morning"
"Breakfast."

Just because a bodybuilder cannot write, doesn't give FLEX an excuse to fake his answers. FLEX has to find other ways.

There are no if's, and's or but's when it comes to the rules about who is signing an article. It has to be correct.

Some people complain that some of the lifts some athletes claim to use may be a little like a fishermans story of the one that got away. Well, if Ronnie Coleman wants to tell me he does 1000lbs on a bench press, I'm not going to argue. He's already come close to dropping some seriously heavy weight on my head, so I'm not going to upset him.

It's in the journalistic rules of conduct to question the claims of those being interviewed, making sure the facts are legit.

You cannot have an article without critically checking facts.

YIP
Zack

[kmhphoto]

When you start leaving answers with as much moral relativism as these, you've as much conceded the argument. Geesh. Aren't you dizzy from all the spinning? 

I approach things as an absolutist rather than a relatavist so I don't accept your point.

[kmhphoto]

Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.

I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.

[dr.chimps]

I approach things as an absolutist rather than a relatavist so I don't accept your point.

Absolutist, or relatavist[sic]? Perhaps you should re-read your post. Your comment most certainly belies your 'absolutist' stance and illustrates my 'point.'  Perhaps this lack of/mis communication is at the root of the problem. No one knows what they are saying anymore. 

[1Fast400]

The mags don't care what these board members think because it represents 1/10000 of their circulation.  It's just like the ads that are inside.  They aren't targeted to people on this board.

[Joe Roark]

I once saw a man on the TV news, who had been arrested for murder, exclaim,'I didn't kill nobody!'

He, of course, had just confessed that he had in fact killed someone, although I suspect that was not his intent. The next day's newspaper reported that the same man 'had claimed he killed no one'.

The newspaper changed the man's words, although probably not his intent.

So, do we take the man's televised confession, or do we interpret what he meant? My view is to report what HE said and allow each viewer to interpret.

If this same practice were used in bodybuilding reporting it could become very interesting very fast. Or, very uninteresting very fast.

[Hedgehog]

Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.

I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.

There is no text in the Ask Mr Olympia section letting the reader know who the real writer is.

This is what I have a problem with. I don't have any problems with the fact that Ronnie isn't able to pen answers good enough to publish. Bringing in someone who's a professional writer/journalist makes a lot of sense.

But there should be NO attempt at hiding that there is a journalist penning down the answers from Ronnie.

 
Could look something like this:

- Ronnie Coleman, as written down by Julian Schmidt.

[240 is Back]

MD does it too.

MD doesn't have their people on getbig trumpeting their justification for not putting the co-author's name on the article.  You are, kev.

When Coleman tells us about the juxtaposition of something, and the only name on that column is Ronnie's.  It's a tad misleading.  It's one thing to correct grammar so as to not embarass someone. 

Kev, what percentage, on average, do the athletes featured in FLEX mag actually write of their own articles?

[Ron]

I think, as in many magazines, the person says what he wants to say, and someone else records it, and writes it down for them, perhaps fixing grammitcal errors, etc. Does that mean they have a ghost writer, or does that mean that they are editorialized a lot? For instance, if someone wants to write an article, and I help them get it down correctly, am I a ghost writer, or am I just helping out.  Most of the articles are done with the same way. Ask questions, get the answers, until the article is done the way they feel is good.

[Crusher]

Crusher, you mentioned that Joe Weider called Romano. How do you know it wasn't Weider returning Romano's call crying for press passes.

Because I work for Romano and can tell you that the phone call was last week, before MD got banned.  They had a great conversation that lasted abut a half hour.  He has nothing but the highest regard for Joe.

[240 is Back]

They sometimes go out of their ways to create sentences that are just silly.  maybe they're trying to impress youths with "wow, ronnie has big muscles AND he speaks like a college professor... Go BSN!".  They intentionally go out of their way to use big words to sound scientific when not really needed.  When describing the greatness of protein drinks, it'd needn't be described as "the almighty unifier of macronutritional bliss- a plethora of branched-chain carboxylic acid and her ilk which - unbeknownst to me - could be expediently delivered in a nonsolid state of matter."

I could save 5 minutes of reading by scanning "Protein drinks are a great way to get your BCAAs in a liquid form".  And if I asked Big Ron about that sentence, he wouldn't say "yes, I'm glad Orange Julius Schmidt fixed that one for me".  Likely, he'd stare at me, quietly sign my DVD, and break eye contact as fast as possible.

[kmhphoto]

MD doesn't have their people on getbig trumpeting their justification for not putting the co-author's name on the article.  You are, kev.

When Coleman tells us about the juxtaposition of something, and the only name on that column is Ronnie's.  It's a tad misleading.  It's one thing to correct grammar so as to not embarass someone. 

Kev, what percentage, on average, do the athletes featured in FLEX mag actually write of their own articles?

I didn't mention MD though I did say all magazines do it. But you are well aware that MD have people here, so maybe you could ask them?
I was asked a question, I've tried to answer it from my point of you, you call that trumpetting!
i can only offer my opinion, I suggest e-mailing or calling the offfice for specific information.