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The True Adonis
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« Reply #325 on: September 10, 2006, 04:51:44 PM »

Here's a little something I thought might be of interest to all of the people flushing their hard earned
money down the toilets on these 600 grams of protein per day diets. Save your money people.


MYTH: Protein supplements increase strength.

FACT: Protein is needed to build, maintain and repair muscle tissue. Protein is not stored in the body; it must be supplied daily. And most active people need more protein in their diets than sedentary people do. In particular, twice the usual protein requirement might help athletes who are trying to build muscle mass or those who often put stress on their muscles and sustain frequent minor injuries, including microscopic tears.

But - and this is a big but - the typical athlete already consumes at least twice the recommended amount of protein each day, nutrition surveys have shown. Excess dietary protein is stored as fat, not muscle. Various studies have shown that protein supplements have no discernible value to an athlete who eats ordinary foods.

In fact, too much protein can impair athletic performance because it is dehydrating, it can set off an attack of gout and it places an undue burden on the kidneys and liver, according to a position paper prepared by the American Dietetic Association.

Only exercise, not extra dietary protein, can increase muscle strength and size. A couch potato who lives on pure protein will still be flabby.


EXACTLY!!!!
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« Reply #326 on: September 10, 2006, 04:52:53 PM »


 In the absence of nutritional intake, the amino acids needed to produce muscle protein at an increased rate after exercise are largely derived from protein breakdown.

Thus, although there is a significant improvement in net muscle protein synthesis after exercise, protein balance is still slightly negative.

In fact, net balance will always be negative if only amino acids from breakdown are used as precursors for synthesis, because some of the amino acids from protein breakdown will be oxidized and thus unavailable for incorporation into new protein.

Food intake is required to cause a positive protein balance in muscle.


This actually seems argue FOR protein supplementation?

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The True Adonis
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« Reply #327 on: September 10, 2006, 04:54:07 PM »

I love owning these "Mickey Mouse" gurus who really have no clue.
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« Reply #328 on: September 10, 2006, 04:54:38 PM »

The True Adonis - do you read (and more importantly: understand English?)...
Read your scientific facts again... Roll Eyes

By the way - which color is a grass?
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #329 on: September 10, 2006, 04:57:27 PM »

58% by weight of the protein we eat converts to glucose, and if the body doesn't need that glucose for energy, it can and does convert it to body fat.

What this means is that of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat, about 58 grams of it becomes sugar. We are talking about the weight of the protein itself, not the weight of the protein food. A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains about 20 or 25 grams of protein, depending on the kind of meat. The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual carbohydrates, not 58 grams. The fact is that, on average, 58% of all protein converts to sugar, and is therefore the major source of what we in the low carb world call hidden carbs.


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« Reply #330 on: September 10, 2006, 04:57:38 PM »

I love owning these "Mickey Mouse" gurus who really have no clue.

Owning a very stinky load is about all you own...and for the sake of the human kind - don't be releasing it here on this board...

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« Reply #331 on: September 10, 2006, 04:59:11 PM »

58% by weight of the protein we eat converts to glucose, and if the body doesn't need that glucose for energy, it can and does convert it to body fat.

What this means is that of every 100 grams (3 1/2 ounces by weight) of protein you eat, about 58 grams of it becomes sugar. We are talking about the weight of the protein itself, not the weight of the protein food. A 3 1/2-ounce piece of meat weighs 100 grams, but it only contains about 20 or 25 grams of protein, depending on the kind of meat. The piece of meat would give about 10 to 14 grams of actual carbohydrates, not 58 grams. The fact is that, on average, 58% of all protein converts to sugar, and is therefore the major source of what we in the low carb world call hidden carbs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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By Dr. Beth Gruber, CarbSmart Contributor



Dr Beth is selling property on Mars...are you interested?
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« Reply #332 on: September 10, 2006, 05:00:40 PM »

58% by weight of the protein we eat converts to glucose

So what?

100% of the carbs we eat convert to sugar.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #333 on: September 10, 2006, 05:02:49 PM »

Dumbass.

Rice is the only thing they give out in 3rd world countries.

Ethipoia alone is sustained on rice from the UN.
hahhahahhah
you are the dumbass. Proteine and fat ARE essential nutritions.

Carbs = energy

you can live without carbs but you cant live without nutritions(protein, fat, vitamin, minerals).

They give them rice because its cheap proteines aswell as carbs for energy.


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The True Adonis
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« Reply #334 on: September 10, 2006, 05:04:34 PM »

Protein Requirements for Athletes
MEETING YOUR MEAT NEEDS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


One of the most commonly asked questions by athletes is ,"how much protein do I need to eat for peak performance?" There is so much information, misinformation, fad diets and nutrition "quackery" available, it is hard to know what to believe. If you go to a health food/vitamin store, a vitamin "expert" (i.e. untrained, non-licensed sales clerk) will convince you to purchase hundreds of dollars of protein powders and protein supplements. These powders and supplements merely amount to very expensive urine. If you ask elite gymnasts, ballet dancers or runners, they will typically cringe at the thought of meat and advise you to eat as little as possible. There has to be a happy "meat"ium (sorry, I couldn't resist).

Protein is used for building and repairing muscle and tissues, red blood cells, hair and finger nails and for synthesizing hormones. Protein is necessary for reducing the risk of iron deficiency anemia and to improve healing. Excess protein does NOT build muscle bulk and strength exercise does. Think about it this way: Tom wants to make his upper body bigger and increase his upper body strength (to impress the women, of course). He goes to the local health food store where he is told to increase his protein intake by eating protein shakes at each meal. He then goes to his sports med doctor and sports dietitian who tell him to eat a moderate amount of protein and swim three times a week plus do upper body weights three times a week. Which do you think will work?

So how much protein do athletes need? To figure out your needs, simply multiply your weight in pounds by one of the following:

Sedentary adult 0.4
Active adult 0.4-0.6
Growing athlete 0.6-0.9
Adult building muscle mass 0.6-0.9
taken from Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook

 

For a 150 pound male triathlete I would recommend 0.6 for a total of 90 grams of protein per day. For a 115 pound female high school track runner I would recommend 0.7 for a total of 80.5 grams of protein per day.

It's easy to get your protein requirements because protein is found in most foods:

Meat, poultry and fish 7 grams per ounce *
Beans, dried peas, lentils 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
One large egg 7 grams
Milk 8 grams per cup
Bread 4 grams per slice
Cereal 4 grams per 1/2 cup
Vegetables 2 grams per 1/2 cup
*One ounce of meat = 1 slice of deli meat. Three ounces of meat is approximately the size of a deck of cards or the palm of a woman's hand.

 

If you crave protein, are injured or sick, or think you need more protein than what's recommended, increase your intake of beans and rice, lean beef, milk, and yogurt. It's a much healthier (and cheaper) way to get extra protein. You can meet your protein needs - it's just a matter of figuring out your individual needs and tailoring your diet as such. Good Luck!

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« Reply #335 on: September 10, 2006, 05:05:31 PM »

you are the dumbass. Proteine and fat ARE essential nutritions.

Carbs = energy

you can live without carbs but you cant live without nutritions(protein, fat, vitamin, minerals).

They give them rice because its cheap proteines aswell as carbs for energy.




all macronutrients are energy.  Are you saying you couldn't live on rice alone?  lol
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #336 on: September 10, 2006, 05:06:41 PM »

you are the dumbass. Proteine and fat ARE essential nutritions.

Carbs = energy

you can live without carbs but you cant live without nutritions(protein, fat, vitamin, minerals).

They give them rice because its cheap proteines aswell as carbs for energy.




hahhah you can live ingesting any kind of calories as long as you have water.

You are an idiot.

Not saying you would be very healthy,but that shows you that one macro is NOT ESSENTIAL over the other.  You won`t die of starvation if you ate 3000 calories of carbs and 0 protein and 0 fat. hahhahah
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« Reply #337 on: September 10, 2006, 05:08:20 PM »

Food intake can stimulate muscle protein synthesis secondary to an increased insulin release, because insulin can directly stimulate muscle protein synthesis and, to at least some extent, decrease protein breakdown (10). As mentioned previously, an improvement in energy balance may also have an effect on net muscle protein balance (6). However, the primary way in which one would expect food intake to stimulate muscle protein synthesis is an increased delivery of amino acids to the muscle. The strong relation between amino acid inflow to the leg (arterial concentration x blood flow) and leg muscle protein synthesis under a variety of conditions is shown in Figure 6.

This seems to actually argue Dante's point of view?

Quote
Protein feeding is more important than energy balance for protein synthesis.
Dietary protein will thus probably cause a pattern of increase in the intramuscular amino acid pool that differs substantially from the composition of the ingested protein. It is therefore difficult to consider the global issue of "protein requirements" of exercise, because the composition of ingested protein will have a significant effect on the extent to which the intramuscular pool of individual amino acids is increased.
The infusion of amino acids also causes an increase in the inward transport of amino acids (Figure Cool. Interestingly, the same intravenous infusion of a balanced mixture of amino acids causes a greater rate of inward transport after exercise. The relation between inward transport and synthesis suggested in Figure 6 holds in this case, because the greater rate of inward transport of amino acids after exercise is related to a significantly greater stimulation of muscle protein synthesis than when the amino acids are infused at rest (Figure 9). This interaction among exercise, amino acid transport, and muscle protein synthesis has significance regarding the timing of ingestion of a protein supplement. On the basis of the aforementioned results, a protein supplement taken immediately after exercise would be anticipated to have a greater effect on muscle protein synthesis than if it were ingested at some later time. Our data indicate that muscle is more efficient at utilizing a given amount of amino acid after resistance exercise. Therefore, if the goal is to maintain a constant muscle mass, it would be predicted that the protein requirements after resistance exercise would actually be decreased. This notion is consistent with the conclusion of Butterfield (11) that exercise enhances the efficiency of protein utilization.

Quote

Moreover, if the goal is to amplify the anabolic response to exercise, our results indicate that a protein supplement, particularly if taken shortly after exercise, will further increase inward transport and thus synthesis.
This point is illustrated in Figure 9, in which the net rate of muscle protein synthesis at rest and after resistance exercise is shown. The infusion of a balanced amino acid mixture after exercise causes a large increase in net protein synthesis. Not only might a higher rate of amino acid administration be anticipated to further stimulate synthesis, but also the mixture of amino acids might be improved to enhance synthesis.

Good scientific article.

I got one question:

Why are you posting an article which is directly opposing your arguments against protein supplementations?

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« Reply #338 on: September 10, 2006, 05:08:52 PM »

hahhah you can live without ingesting any calories as long as you have water.



Why don't you try that?  Grin
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« Reply #339 on: September 10, 2006, 05:09:20 PM »

Yes Adonis! prisoners who were fed bread were like "help! give me a protein shake and flax seed oil before I die"

hahaha yes!
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #340 on: September 10, 2006, 05:09:32 PM »

This seems to actually argue Dante's point of view?

Good scientific article.

I got one question:

Why are you posting an article which is directly opposing your arguments against protein supplementations?

YIP
Zack

Read the entire article.

It says none of it is FACT.

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« Reply #341 on: September 10, 2006, 05:10:10 PM »

hahhah you can live ingesting any kind of calories as long as you have water.

You are an idiot.

Not saying you would be very healthy,but that shows you that one macro is NOT ESSENTIAL over the other.  You won`t die of starvation if you ate 3000 calories of carbs and 0 protein and 0 fat. hahhahah
yes you will die by doing that over a long time.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #342 on: September 10, 2006, 05:10:23 PM »


Why don't you try that?  Grin

Why did you change it to without?

hahhahhah dumbass
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #343 on: September 10, 2006, 05:12:26 PM »

hahhah you will live long enough, a few years I imagine until you get some kind of disease. hahahhah
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« Reply #344 on: September 10, 2006, 05:17:17 PM »

It absolutely amazing to me Adonis, Bast et all that you are overlooking the simple fact of thermogenisis via protein

"For some foods this is a very easy process, as in the case of fat with only 2% of the energy ingested from fat lost in the process of its digestion. Fat therefore has a very minimal thermic effect. In the case of carbohydrate, the thermic effect is around 8%. Although absolutely essential to the body for growth, tissue regeneration and supporting the immune system, protein is hard to process and has the highest thermic effect, at around 30%. That means that in a diet based largely on protein, such as a high-protein low-carb diet, the body burns 30% more calories a day, simply on digestion, translating to an elevated metabolic rate!"

So you guys keep eating that ice cream, Ill stick with my gameplan which is for every 100 calories of protein you take in it takes up to 25-33 calories thru digestion to process that protein, and only 3-4 for carbs and 2-3 for fats....further that along with a very high water intake and I'm creating human muscle building fat burning blast furnaces. You keep saying someone can only gain 1-3lbs of muscle mass a year naturally...I can see exactly why when you allow all aspects of homeostasis to take place.
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« Reply #345 on: September 10, 2006, 05:17:29 PM »

I have always believed that it needs to be demonstrated in a lab how much protein is required for building muscle. My feeling is you need about 1 gram of protein for every 2 pounds of bodyweight. How much protein we need is not a matter of belief but of research. The problem we have settling this question is finding research done on advanced bodybuilders. I will admit that most companies, magazines and individuals who sell protein supplements always exaggerate how much protein you need. The same goes for vitamins, etc. I refused to sell any supplements in my gym for over 20 years. My partner convinced me that bodybuilders were buying supplements down the road so to speak so we eventually provided them as well. I never recommend extra protein but I do recommend extra calories for most young guys who are growing very slowly.

Melvin doesn't know much about nutrition. For example, I don't believe there is anything called junk food. Either a substance is a food or it is junk. It cannot be both. What people eat can be referred to as a junk diet because they lack nutrients and balance. For example, if someone ate only potato fries and nothing else they would get sick. If you trained and ate only at McDonalds you would be fine. That movie "SuperSize Me" was a scam. At least he got McDonalds to offer tastier food and change the way they marketed food.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #346 on: September 10, 2006, 05:18:13 PM »

You will eventually come around when you figure out that a bodybuilder and his workout are hardly taxing enough to even justify an increase in protein.

Not like it would matter anyway.

hahhahhahahah   High Protien is for idiots who have not done their research.
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« Reply #347 on: September 10, 2006, 05:19:29 PM »

It absolutely amazing to me Adonis, Bast et all that you are overlooking the simple fact of thermogenisis via protein

"For some foods this is a very easy process, as in the case of fat with only 2% of the energy ingested from fat lost in the process of its digestion. Fat therefore has a very minimal thermic effect. In the case of carbohydrate, the thermic effect is around 8%. Although absolutely essential to the body for growth, tissue regeneration and supporting the immune system, protein is hard to process and has the highest thermic effect, at around 30%. That means that in a diet based largely on protein, such as a high-protein low-carb diet, the body burns 30% more calories a day, simply on digestion, translating to an elevated metabolic rate!"

So you guys keep eating that ice cream, Ill stick with my gameplan which is for every 100 calories of protein you take in it takes up to 25-33 calories thru digestion to process that protein, and only 3-4 for carbs and 2-3 for fats....further that along with a very high water intake and I'm creating human muscle building fat burning blast furnaces. You keep saying someone can only gain 1-3lbs of muscle mass a year naturally...I can see exactly why when you allow all aspects of homeostasis to take place.

The body uses calories to process carbs and fat as well, not as much as protein, but big deal.
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #348 on: September 10, 2006, 05:19:56 PM »

I have always believed that it needs to be demonstrated in a lab how much protein is required for building muscle. My feeling is you need about 1 gram of protein for every 2 pounds of bodyweight. How much protein we need is not a matter of belief but of research. The problem we have settling this question is finding research done of advanced bodybuilders. I will admit that most companies, magazines and individuals who sell protein supplements always exaggerate how much protein you need. The same goes for vitamins, etc. I refused to sell any supplements in my gym for over 20 years. My partner convinced me that bodybuilders were buying supplements down the road so to speak so we eventually provided them as well. I never recommend extra protein but I do recommend extra calories for most young guys who are growing very slowly.

Melvin doesn't know much about nutrition. For example, I don't believe there is anything called junk food. Either a substance is a food or it is junk. It cannot be both. What people eat can be referred to as a junk diet because they lack nutrients and balance. For example, if someone ate only potato fries and nothing else they would get sick. If you trained and ate only at McDonalds you would be fine. That movie "SuperSize Me" was a scam. At least he got McDonalds to offer tastier food and change the way they marketed food.



hahahahhah yes you are partly right.

I eat Mcdonalds,Krispy Kreme,Oreos and cake and look great in single digit bodyfat.....Im getting leaner and stronger by the day!

Love it!
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #349 on: September 10, 2006, 05:21:20 PM »

It absolutely amazing to me Adonis, Bast et all that you are overlooking the simple fact of thermogenisis via protein

"For some foods this is a very easy process, as in the case of fat with only 2% of the energy ingested from fat lost in the process of its digestion. Fat therefore has a very minimal thermic effect. In the case of carbohydrate, the thermic effect is around 8%. Although absolutely essential to the body for growth, tissue regeneration and supporting the immune system, protein is hard to process and has the highest thermic effect, at around 30%. That means that in a diet based largely on protein, such as a high-protein low-carb diet, the body burns 30% more calories a day, simply on digestion, translating to an elevated metabolic rate!"

So you guys keep eating that ice cream, Ill stick with my gameplan which is for every 100 calories of protein you take in it takes up to 25-33 calories thru digestion to process that protein, and only 3-4 for carbs and 2-3 for fats....further that along with a very high water intake and I'm creating human muscle building fat burning blast furnaces. You keep saying someone can only gain 1-3lbs of muscle mass a year naturally...I can see exactly why when you allow all aspects of homeostasis to take place.

HAHHAHHAH DUMBASS.....YOU WILL BURN MORE CALORIES TALKING TO YOUR GIRLFRIEND FOR 30 MINUTES TO AN HOUR THAN A WHOLE DAYS WORTH OF PROTEIN THERMOGENSIS!!
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