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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: robocop on December 28, 2005, 11:26:40 AM
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quality of physiques went down hill after 1998! Why,how what happend?
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No, the quality of physiques when down after 1974!
No, it was 1984!
Well, '93 was good too, that's when it went down!
Well, 2001 was pretty good, so was '99!
1988 was actually the peak, probably!
2003 was good too though!
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it was whenever Haney left.....
:-\
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Once the weiders saw it fit to award the ugliest body on stage, ie yates, was when it went downhill. This paradigm shift caused the majority of competitors to chase yates by attempting to foolishly play the mass game. Of course a few men didn't such as shawn ray
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What went wrong after '98? Flex not winning the Olympia. :'(
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Haney was very good but not great, it wasn't his influence but Yates and the reward he got for a big powerlifter look that started the trend.
Others with the same look continued the trend, like Nassser.
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What went wrong after '98? Flex not winning the Olympia. :'(
flex in 98 no way not with that synthol abuse
shawn and of course kevin should've won
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flex in 98 no way not with that synthol abuse
shawn and of course kevin should've won
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Yeah like levrone didn't use synthol ::)
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1994 Olympia was the turning point...
(http://www.emusclemag.com/webimages/sandows/yates/1_lrg.jpg)
that was the first contest where the huge, powerlifter type physique, complete with gut and torn muscles, defeated a career best shape shawn ray, all because shawn was "smaller" ::)
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PS- kevin didn't look all that great at the 98 O. It looks like he came in way too depleted..
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Yeah like levrone didn't use synthol ::)
maybe he did and maybe he didn't
if he did it wasn't as obvious as flex
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maybe he did and maybe he didn't
if he did it wasn't as obvious as flex
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Yes...it was!
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quality of physiques went down hill after 1998! Why,how what happend?
Mass amounts of GH, IGF-1, Insulin.....
Those distended guts will NEVER go away now.
Feel my words.
NEVER.
DIV
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Yes...it was!
how so?
E
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the reason the phsyiques started going downhill bc most the guys who were in the 90's were also in their prime. then around 98, they started getting older and werent as good as they were years before.
stop hating on yates and the other big bbers of the 90's. just bc you'll never be half as big as them, stop bitching about "the powerlifter physique". please continue to mold your phsyique after jon basedow.
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the reason the phsyiques started going downhill bc most the guys who were in the 90's were also in their prime. then around 98, they started getting older and werent as good as they were years before.
stop hating on yates and the other big bbers of the 90's. just bc you'll never be half as big as them, stop bitching about "the powerlifter physique". please continue to mold your phsyique after jon basedow.
I think the thread is hinting at the fact that there was a huge shortage of impressive pros coming on to the scene after the 90's, not that the 90's pros are getting past their prime. In the 90's, you had Yates, Levrone, Ray, Coleman, Wheeler, Cormeir etc etc all rising to prominence. Since then, who have we had:
Jaw Gutler (overrated and blocky)
Rhul (some say oil-filled and blocky)
Gunter (blocky and overrated, gets a gift each october)
Dexter (ripped to shreds but has huge structural flaws)
etc etc.
The calibre of the pro's took a downturn after the 90's. A few warriors like Chris and Ronnie are still going, but the new comers are not what they ued to be..
I think this is what the topic is about.
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I really think part of the problem is that the Mr. "O", never seems to change, not a knock on Ronnie, as he has deserved a few times, but not all 8, and no one can argue that, seems that the judges are afraid to look at each competitor on the day of the show and not what they did over the past few years and that is what hurts, in Flex this month, more than states, show was predecided by call outs, and no one was given a chance to break it up, feel if it seemed all competitors had a chance, might see different men winning and different looks becoming popular, and for the record, big Yates fan and fan of the Mass MOnsters.
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The decline started in 1999 when Coleman won his first Mr. O with a noticable case of gyno, sub-par calves, and his posing suit tucked into the crack of his ass like some dancer in a gay club.
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actually, Franco Colombu first won the Mr. Gynolympia in 1981.
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it's all about the lighting used at the show
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Actually the quality of bodybuilders went downhill after the columbus came to america.
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....Gunter (blocky and overrated, gets a gift each october)....
Gunter looked excellent this year and his placing was no gift. If anyhting he should've placed higher.
Your hero, Ronnie, has his share of gifts and he adds to them every passing year.
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Gunter (blocky and overrated, gets a gift each october)
DONT FORGET HIS 2 TORN QUADS. I CANT HATE THOUGH, GUNTER IS A GOOD BODYBUILDER AND YOU CANT DENY THAT, JUST NOT AS GOOD AS SOME OTHERS I THINK HE DESERVED HIS GOOD PLACING THIS YEAR, HES BETTER THAN JAY.
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Gunter looked excellent this year and his placing was no gift. If anyhting he should've placed higher.
Your hero, Ronnie, has his share of gifts and he adds to them every passing year.
Well, as far as gunter goes, that only adds to the whole point of this thread: the quality of the lineups has dropped drastically, with a few exceptions. Ever notice how Gunter used to be barely a top 10 Olympia competitor? Hell, did he have to be "invited" a few times? And now, he places top 5 all the time. Well, there is a reason for that: the focus of this thread.
Now, don't get me wrong: Gunter has improved alot, and is a great representative of bb, but he can't hang with the likes of Coleman, Ray, Wheeler, Haney, Levrone etc. when they are in shape.
And as far as Ronnie goes, he had only one real, undebatable gift: 2002. I still don't think that Jay was good enough to take him in 2001- Jays back kept him from fairly beating ronnie IMO.. But Ronnie should have lost in 2002 to Levrone. Levrone is far above Jay, in my opinion.
Jay is overrated. Not as much as the Supreme Ruler of All Overratedness, Dorian Yates, but still overrated none the less ;)
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The decline started in 1999 when Coleman won his first Mr. O with a noticable case of gyno, sub-par calves, and his posing suit tucked into the crack of his ass like some dancer in a gay club.
First won it in '98. If you had of been at Madison Garden live and in living color that night--you might be singing a different tune. Sub-par calves agreed, but non-existent (BULLSHIT!!). Posing trunks pulled up for showing off extreme striated glutes compared smooth glutes of front-runner Flex Wheeler--not for fag dancing as you suggest. Gyno was noticeable, but not ruining has physique. That show was for Wheeler to win, but he choked in his preparation as usual for the Olympia.
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Ronnie has received many gifts , his first win (1998 ) he won by 3 points !! that has to be one of the closest Olympias ever , 1999 and 2000 he scored straight firsts but people have said perhaps Chris should have won in 99 and Levrone in 2000 , 2001 he " won " by just 4 points again another extremely close call , 2002 again Leverone should have won according to some , but the score sheet says he only won by 9 points , 2003 straight firsts , 2004 he won again by just 3 points , and 2005 he won by 16 points so even in 05 it wasn't straight firsts , so only 3 of his 8 wins have come with straight firsts , 3 were close calls and 2 wern't that close , now most Mr Olympias have gotten gifts , Arnold in 1980 , Haney in 1990 , Yates in 1994/97 but Coleman takes the cake for most close calls and most gifts bar none.
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can you imagine how cocky Flex would have been if he had actually won the Mr. Oilympia? Hell, in 1999, after losing fair and square, he was so conceted he threw a tantrum, turned his back on the judges and almost walked off stage!
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Ronnie has received many gifts , his first win (1998 ) he won by 3 points !! that has to be one of the closest Olympias ever , 1999 and 2000 he scored straight firsts but people have said perhaps Chris should have won in 99 and Levrone in 2000 , 2001 he " won " by just 4 points again another extremely close call , 2002 again Leverone should have won according to some , but the score sheet says he only won by 9 points , 2003 straight firsts , 2004 he won again by just 3 points , and 2005 he won by 16 points so even in 05 it wasn't straight firsts , so only 3 of his 8 wins have come with straight firsts , 3 were close calls and 2 wern't that close , now most Mr Olympias have gotten gifts , Arnold in 1980 , Haney in 1990 , Yates in 1994/97 but Coleman takes the cake for most close calls and most gifts bar none.
I spoke with a judge who had scored the 2002 Mr.O. The problem she had was that Kevin either peaked late/posed like he was half asleep at the pre-judging. Ronnie clearly won the prejudging on her sheet. But the night show was a completely different scenario--she had Kevin winning the posing round & the final posedown. In all, she felt that if Kevin came on strong in the pre-judging like he did at night--no question he would have been crowned Mr. Olympia.
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Ronnie has received many gifts , his first win (1998 ) he won by 3 points !! that has to be one of the closest Olympias ever , 1999 and 2000 he scored straight firsts but people have said perhaps Chris should have won in 99 and Levrone in 2000 , 2001 he " won " by just 4 points again another extremely close call , 2002 again Leverone should have won according to some , but the score sheet says he only won by 9 points , 2003 straight firsts , 2004 he won again by just 3 points , and 2005 he won by 16 points so even in 05 it wasn't straight firsts , so only 3 of his 8 wins have come with straight firsts , 3 were close calls and 2 wern't that close , now most Mr Olympias have gotten gifts , Arnold in 1980 , Haney in 1990 , Yates in 1994/97 but Coleman takes the cake for most close calls and most gifts bar none.
even you have to agree that the ONLY reason that Ronnie's win was so close in 1998 was that he was OVERLOOKED in the early rounds: he was the FIRST Mr. Olympia to win and not be called out in the first comparison in many years. That hadn't happened in a long time. That says it all right there. He was overlooked at first.
secondly, just because "people said perhaps" Kevin and Chris should have won does NOT mean it was a gift.
Coleman has the most gifts? Well, it seems that you are saying that any win is a "gift" if the score sheets don't show straight firsts.
I think most would disagree with you on that.
Also, you have to consider that Coleman has won more Mr. O's than anyone else except for haney, so obviously, if you hate his physique, he will have recieved many more gifts in your opinion then say someone like Bannout, who only won once.
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can you imagine how cocky Flex would have been if he had actually won the Mr. Oilympia? Hell, in 1999, after losing fair and square, he was so conceted he threw a tantrum, turned his back on the judges and almost walked off stage!
Realistically, I thought Flex looked better in the '99 Olympia than the '98. Regardless of all the belly aching about his use of synthol, he did his homework in getting prepared. The problem I felt was that he wasn't hard enough in the hamstring-glute area. But with that said, I still don't think Ronnie should have beat Flex in the symmetry/first round. I would have to agree with NarcDeity on this one.
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Realistically, I thought Flex looked better in the '99 Olympia than the '98. Regardless of all the belly aching about his use of synthol, he did his homework in getting prepared. The problem I felt was that he wasn't hard enough in the hamstring-glute area. But with that said, I still don't think Ronnie should have beat Flex in the symmetry/first round. I would have to agree with NarcDeity on this one.
ronnie beat Flex in the first round because he was much harder and had a far better taper:
(http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/1999_03LG.jpg)
(http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/1999_01LG.jpg)
the same holds true for chris, who was in the shape of his life that night. But Ronnie was even more "on" than either of them back then. That was the "pre-gut" Coleman in one of his best ever presentations.
I think Chris should have beaten Flex at that show - flex always looked really soft in 99 for some reason. I think it was more due to contest prep than to oil.
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Oh god i can see where this thread is goin and its inevitable degradation to shit. Hulkster i agree the only gift placing, (gift in the sense that he didnt deserve it not as ND suggests in 98'), was 2001.
98 - ronnie, harder, better proportioned than wheeler. No calves you say? Surely this argument holds for wheeler then unless you consider synthol "real"
99 - ronnie undisputed. Wheeler softer and noticebly faker in arms and delts. Cormier was excellant but it was lights out teh minute ronnie turn around
2000 - ronnie again. No competitor rocked up in awesome shape that year so the incumbent gets it
2001 - too close to call. I'd say he got a gift but then cutler couldnt match the back poses. Unfortunatly for jay this was the best hes been and ever since
2002 - Ronnie again! Levrone was in great shape no doubt but unfortunatly for him a shadow of his mid nineties form, largely down to his declining quads
2003 - Undisputed. Please no one picth dexter jackson
2004 - Ronnie by virtue of a poor lineup#
2005 - similar argument as 2004
So really he's had only one gift and that was the 2001 when he effectively won on the basis of the individual posing and posedown round. Not as some would make it out, ie, hes had the most gifts of any mro. It makes me laugh cos these same critics shy away when asked to present an alternative winner (you know who you are ND)
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Oh god i can see where this thread is goin and its inevitable degradation to shit. Hulkster i agree the only gift placing, (gift in the sense that he didnt deserve it not as ND suggests in 98'), was 2001.
98 - ronnie, harder, better proportioned than wheeler. No calves you say? Surely this argument holds for wheeler then unless you consider synthol "real"
99 - ronnie undisputed. Wheeler softer and noticebly faker in arms and delts. Cormier was excellant but it was lights out teh minute ronnie turn around
2000 - ronnie again. No competitor rocked up in awesome shape that year so the incumbent gets it
2001 - too close to call. I'd say he got a gift but then cutler couldnt match the back poses. Unfortunatly for jay this was the best hes been and ever since
2002 - Ronnie again! Levrone was in great shape no doubt but unfortunatly for him a shadow of his mid nineties form, largely down to his declining quads
2003 - Undisputed. Please no one picth dexter jackson
2004 - Ronnie by virtue of a poor lineup#
2005 - similar argument as 2004
So really he's had only one gift and that was the 2001 when he effectively won on the basis of the individual posing and posedown round. Not as some would make it out, ie, hes had the most gifts of any mro. It makes me laugh cos these same critics shy away when asked to present an alternative winner (you know who you are ND)
I AGREE, I THINK IN 2001 IT WAS CLOSE, RONNIE WAS WAAAAY OFF AND JAY WAS ON, RONNIE STILL DESTROYED JAY FROM THE BACK THOUGH AND CAME CLOSE FROM THE FRONT ALL IN ALL RONNIE WON. BUT IF IT REALLY WAS SUPER CLOSE, RONNIE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE WIN JUST BECAUSE HES WAS THE REIGNING MR OLYMPIA, IF ITS CLOSE THEN GO WITH THE MR OLYMPIA I DONT SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
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so it is settled then: ronnie only got one (or at most 2) gifts.
That would be about as many as Haney got.
Yates? well, we all know about 94 and 97. I also thought that Ray should have won in 1996 as well. So Yates has at least 3.
Which is greater than 2 ;)
Isn't it ironic that ND claims that Ronnie has had more gifts than any other Mr. O. when in fact even his hero and anal friend Dorian Yates has had MORE?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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ps I am not the only one who though that Ray should have won in 1996. If I recall, at the time, the contest was very controversial. Ray showed up shaved headed and in super ripped shape. Yates was just Yates- soft quads, wide waist, torn muscles and all.
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hulkster ur taking the words right away fropm my mouth!!
well defended bro
this topic is yours
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hulkster ur taking the words right away fropm my mouth!!
well defended bro
this topic is yours
as are most topics that I post in! ;D
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oh god lead it to hulkster to hijack this thread with his homoerotic obsession with Coleman being good and his equally gay homoerotic obessesion with Yates being bad. Stay tuned for the same fucking pictures of coleman and yates to be posted over and over and over again. Dude why dont you just start your own coleman muscle worship site message board- That way you could hijack every single thread on a message board with around the clock monotonous ass worship ode's to coleman.
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oh god lead it to hulkster to hijack this thread with his homoerotic obsession with Coleman being good and his equally gay homoerotic obessesion with Yates being bad. Stay tuned for the same fucking pictures of coleman and yates to be posted over and over and over again. Dude why dont you just start your own coleman muscle worship site message board- That way you could hijack every single thread on a message board with around the clock monotonous ass worship ode's to coleman.
I suppose you think it is possible to discuss Mr. Olympia gift placings without mentioning Coleman and Yates? ::)
If you want to talk about Larry Scott's gift placings, go to ironage.
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Jay is overrated. Not as much as the Supreme Ruler of All Overratedness, Dorian Yates, but still overrated none the less ;)
that was funny ;D
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how this is "overrated" I don't know...
(http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/dorian_yates/dy03.jpg)
his back looks hard as nails...
As well, if it wasn't for Dorian's injuries, it can be said that Ronnie wouldn't have become Mr. O until 2003 if ever. Ronnie only weighed 247 at the 98O. Dorian would have been at least 20 maybe 25 lbs heavier, would have been lights out for ronnie.
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how this is "overrated" I don't know...
(http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/dorian_yates/dy03.jpg)
his back looks hard as nails...
As well, if it wasn't for Dorian's injuries, it can be said that Ronnie wouldn't have become Mr. O until 2003 if ever. Ronnie only weighed 247 at the 98O. Dorian would have been at least 20 maybe 25 lbs heavier, would have been lights out for ronnie.
Damn !
I never saw dorian in person and in the competitions pics I didn't understood what was so special about his condition. But that pic say it all: shredded as shredded can be
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agreed- that back double bi is awesome - but it seldom looked that detailed. Dorian is overrated not so much because of his back (and of course his calves were amazing) its the rest of him that is the problem ;)
Now, back to our discussion of post 98 quality declines and Mr. O. gift placings.
oh god lead it to hulkster to hijack this thread with his homoerotic obsession with Coleman being good and his equally gay homoerotic obessesion with Yates being bad. Stay tuned for the same fucking pictures of coleman and yates to be posted over and over and over again. Dude why dont you just start your own coleman muscle worship site message board- That way you could hijack every single thread on a message board with around the clock monotonous ass worship ode's to coleman.
people take message boards way, way too seriously.
everyone relax and have fun.
If you have a "meltdown" about what people are posting on a bb message board, you have bigger issues than worrying about seeing too many coleman pics.
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that pic is only a biceps or two away from being the best dorian pic I have ever seen. What contest was that from? he looks great in that shot.
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You CAN'T say Ron received gifts without also mentioned previous gifts to Schwarzenegger, Columbu, Haney, Yates and others. The same guy Weider's running the show with the same way of thinking.
Stop fooling yourselves-either all of them got gifts, or none of them.
The downfall started with Yates and the powerlifter look. Yates had great density and conditioning but equally serious flaws.
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1994 Olympia was the turning point...
(http://www.emusclemag.com/webimages/sandows/yates/1_lrg.jpg)
that was the first contest where the huge, powerlifter type physique, complete with gut and torn muscles, defeated a career best shape shawn ray, all because shawn was "smaller" ::)
....Wow, peep out the small symetrical waist!! ;D
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That waist is as bad as anything with Ron, without a great taper to compensate.
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so it is settled then: ronnie only got one (or at most 2) gifts.
That would be about as many as Haney got.
Yates? well, we all know about 94 and 97. I also thought that Ray should have won in 1996 as well. So Yates has at least 3.
Which is greater than 2 ;)
Isn't it ironic that ND claims that Ronnie has had more gifts than any other Mr. O. when in fact even his hero and anal friend Dorian Yates has had MORE?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Yates in 97 was a gift , Yates in 94 was not , no one complained about Dorian's win in 94 , and even Shawn Ray said he got the place he deserved so on paper Yates got one gift and Coleman got a gift in 98 by virtue of ripped glutes & tigher hams , 2001 he got a huge gift and you can make a hard case for Levrone in 2000 and 2002 , but either way Coleman has many more close calls so who is overrated? ;)
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Desperately trying to backpeddle, now to who had more close calls.
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ps I am not the only one who though that Ray should have won in 1996. If I recall, at the time, the contest was very controversial. Ray showed up shaved headed and in super ripped shape. Yates was just Yates- soft quads, wide waist, torn muscles and all.
More flat looking than anything else. Definitely, Shawn should have won in '96. What do you think about Dorian's first Mr. O victory in '92. Another one of Shawn's best conditions, and they placed him fourth. He definitely should have been second ahead of Levrone. Personally, I thought he should have won that Mr. O.
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Yates in 97 was a gift , Yates in 94 was not , no one complained about Dorian's win in 94 , and even Shawn Ray said he got the place he deserved so on paper Yates got one gift and Coleman got a gift in 98 by virtue of ripped glutes & tigher hams , 2001 he got a huge gift and you can make a hard case for Levrone in 2000 and 2002 , but either way Coleman has many more close calls so who is overrated? ;)
NEITHER
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Yates started the trend of guys winning with guts and Coleman took if from him and went running , either way its not acceptable and isn't what the sport is about.
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Yates in 97 was a gift , Yates in 94 was not , no one complained about Dorian's win in 94 , and even Shawn Ray said he got the place he deserved so on paper Yates got one gift and Coleman got a gift in 98 by virtue of ripped glutes & tigher hams , 2001 he got a huge gift and you can make a hard case for Levrone in 2000 and 2002 , but either way Coleman has many more close calls so who is overrated? ;)
I still fail to see how 98 was a gift by virtue of ripped glutes and tighter hams. You make it out like these dont matter. Stop acting a fool. Had wheeler won would he of been given a gift? Perhaps by virtue of his detailed upper back? I outlined why levrone could win in 2000 or 2002 (smaller legs, outmuscled from the back) yet you ignore this.
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I still fail to see how 98 was a gift by virtue of ripped glutes and tighter hams. You make it out like these dont matter. Stop acting a fool. Had wheeler won would he of been given a gift? Perhaps by virtue of his detailed upper back? I outlined why levrone could win in 2000 or 2002 (smaller legs, outmuscled from the back) yet you ignore this.
98 they could have went with Flex Wheeler on name alone , he was the heir apparent it was his destiny to be the next Mr Olympia , everyone knew it was his contest to lose and he did , believe me lady luck shined down on Coleman that night , especially considering Coleman wasn't even favored to win entering thr contest , the heavy favorites in that conest were Flex , Shawn , Nasser and Kevin , I'm not saying Ronnie didn't deserve to win but you'd be a fool to think he wasn't lucky that night.
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Yes but wheeler could be considered lucky aswell when you take into account his flaws. It doesnt matter if it was "wheelers destiny" he choked as usual and up stepped ronnie coleman who was every bit th winner that night. Stop trying to take away from ronnies victory that night. His is a great story, making his mr o debut at 15th and his highest placing before 98 was 6th, yet he never quit once and made it to the top
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Yes but wheeler could be considered lucky aswell when you take into account his flaws. It doesnt matter if it was "wheelers destiny" he choked as usual and up stepped ronnie coleman who was every bit th winner that night. Stop trying to take away from ronnies victory that night. His is a great story, making his mr o debut at 15th and his highest placing before 98 was 6th, yet he never quit once and made it to the top
Thats what makes the story so great is he was an underdog and it was a close victory but make no mistake he was in a bit part lucky and he was damn lucky Flex wasn't 100% because if he would have lost outright.
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Thats what makes the story so great is he was an underdog and it was a close victory but make no mistake he was in a bit part lucky and he was damn lucky Flex wasn't 100% because if he would have lost outright.
I don't think ANYONE can beat flex when flex is at 100%
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Don't fall the bullshit that people peddle about flex wheeler and him bein the greatest. He wasn't, he was narrow, had problems conditioning his lower body, had obvious site injections in calves, arms and delts and was a bit of prick to boot
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Don't fall the bullshit that people peddle about flex wheeler and him bein the greatest. He wasn't, he was narrow, had problems conditioning his lower body, had obvious site injections in calves, arms and delts and was a bit of prick to boot
In my opinion Flex Wheeler in 1993 ASC shape would outright beat Dorian Yates nevermind Ronnie Coleman , reguardless of his flaws , I wanted Flex to beat Dorian , if that was the case perhaps this gut thing wouldn't be here today.
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Don't fall the bullshit that people peddle about flex wheeler and him bein the greatest. He wasn't, he was narrow, had problems conditioning his lower body, had obvious site injections in calves, arms and delts and was a bit of prick to boot
Flex won the first 4 Pro shows he enetered and placed 2nd in his first Mr Olympia , oh yeah theres nothing great about that ::)
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Don't fall the bullshit that people peddle about flex wheeler and him bein the greatest. He wasn't, he was narrow, had problems conditioning his lower body, had obvious site injections in calves, arms and delts and was a bit of prick to boot
None of that was an issue in 1993. But after that with the car wreck, the judging standards (mass game) and the kidney condition flex could never be at 100% again like 1993.
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Hold on a minute:
I am reading this correctly:
1) ND is saying that the most contoversial Mr. O. since 1980 (1994) was NOT a gift? ND, you should read the what the mags said about it at the time.
Musclemag (back when it used to have THE best contest reports in the industry at the time) essentially wrote a well argued essay on how arguments for BOTH Kevin and Shawn to have beaten Dorian that night. He was that out of shape:
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy179.jpg)
Yates was a shell of his former self in 94.
and 2)
why in the world do people STILL insist that 98 was a hams and glutes contest. That was only a very small part of why Ronnie won. Ronnie won on the basis of taper, width and most of all CONDITIONING. Here is a shot from the contest to show exactly why Ronnie won, and it has nothing to do with glutes and hams:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43892.0;id=45830;image)
look at how soft and puffy flex looks compared to Ronnie. His win had little to do with glutes and hams, and all to do with width, and overall hardness.
so, ND, stop saying that Ronnie won simply because he had glutes and hams! :)
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More flat looking than anything else. Definitely, Shawn should have won in '96. What do you think about Dorian's first Mr. O victory in '92. Another one of Shawn's best conditions, and they placed him fourth. He definitely should have been second ahead of Levrone. Personally, I thought he should have won that Mr. O.
I think Shawn got screwed placing fourth, and I think a lot of that had to do with politics. Dorian was in Flex's position in 98, only he showed up in shape, so there was no way he was not going to win. Kevin had just won the NOC and was the hottest new name on the pro circuit at the time. Shawn should have easily beaten Labrada that year.
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I can't believe you're still arguing Hulkster. Ronnie Coleman is the man gh gut and all.
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Hold on a minute:
I am reading this correctly:
1) ND is saying that the most contoversial Mr. O. since 1980 (1994) was NOT a gift? ND, you should read the what the mags said about it at the time.
Musclemag (back when it used to have THE best contest reports in the industry at the time) essentially wrote a well argued essay on how arguments for BOTH Kevin and Shawn to have beaten Dorian that night. He was that out of shape:
Yates was a shell of his former self in 94.
and 2)
why in the world do people STILL insist that 98 was a hams and glutes contest. That was only a very small part of why Ronnie won. Ronnie won on the basis of taper, width and most of all CONDITIONING. Here is a shot from the contest to show exactly why Ronnie won, and it has nothing to do with glutes and hams:
look at how soft and puffy flex looks compared to Ronnie. His win had little to do with glutes and hams, and all to do with width, and overall hardness.
so, ND, stop saying that Ronnie won simply because he had glutes and hams! :)
Look Dorian was off no doubts about that but for you to say it was the most contoversial O since 1980 is nonsense , Shawn Ray himself said he got the place he deserved , so where is the controversy? I have most of the magazines from 94 and they all said he was off durring the prejudging and tightened up for the night show , they said his tan sucked and his biceps were noticabley different
Here is a news flash Shawn Ray was NEVER a threat to Yates , just like he was NEVER a threat to Haney , he was an excellent bodybuilder he looked great in 93/94/96 etc but it was never going to happen for him , the only threat to Yates was Flex and if Flex competed in 94 he would have won but Ray or Levrone was never in the running.
And Flex lost the 98 Olympia and Ronnie just happened to be the right guy at the right time !! he didn't beat Flex at his best , he couldn't anyway Ronnie did have an slight edge on conditioning particually in the glutes & hamstrings and he won a very close contest but he still won and thats all that matters , Flex was ripped but not like he was at the 93 ASC he had cross striations in his quads , Ronnie didn't anyway he had soft glutes & hams his legs from the back looked blury and thats why Ronnie edged him out.
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Flex March 1995 quote from Kevin Levrone " I told him ( Yates ) that I thought he was sharper on the tour than at the O , and I knew he was the winner "
Okay so Shawn says he got the place he deserved at the 94 Olympia and Kevin says he knew Yates was the winner and its the most controversial Mr Olympia since the 1980 lol nice try kid. ;)
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Flex March 1995 quote from Kevin Levrone " I told him ( Yates ) that I thought he was sharper on the tour than at the O , and I knew he was the winner "
Okay so Shawn says he got the place he deserved at the 94 Olympia and Kevin says he knew Yates was the winner and its the most controversial Mr Olympia since the 1980 lol nice try kid. ;)
first of all, Kevin was stunned at coming in third in 1994.
Secondly, saying "I knew he was the winner" is simply Kevin commenting on the politics of the placing: by then all the pros knew that Yates could have shown up weighing 400 pounds with a peg leg and still be declared the winner.
Kevin saying that he "knew" that Dorian would win is totally different that kevin saying that Dorian "deserved" to win.
One is commenting on the oft-said line about the reigning mr. O. winning no matter what.
the other is commenting on how the Mr. O. showed up and shape and actually deserved his placing.
This is a distinction that you are missing.
And finally, Kevin was commenting on the grand prix England show in 1994 (where he came second to Yates) NOT the olympia itself.
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first of all, Kevin was stunned at coming in third in 1994.
Secondly, saying "I knew he was the winner" is simply Kevin commenting on the politics of the placing: by then all the pros knew that Yates could have shown up weighing 400 pounds with a peg leg and still be declared the winner.
Kevin saying that he "knew" that Dorian would win is totally different that kevin saying that Dorian "deserved" to win.
One is commenting on the oft-said line about the reigning mr. O. winning no matter what.
the other is commenting on how the Mr. O. showed up and shape and actually deserved his placing.
This is a distinction that you are missing.
And finally, Kevin was commenting on the grand prix England show in 1994 (where he came second to Yates) NOT the olympia itself.
Hulkster wishfull thinking on your behalf and who are you to presume to speak for Kevin? here is the full quote
" Look I was really pissed about getting third at the Olympia , but I never said anything detrimental about Shawn ( Ray ) , the judges or anybody , I keep my mouth shut. " as long as Dorian and I have an understanding about where we stand with each other , thats all thats important to me . I told him I thought he was sharper on the tour than the O , and I knew he was the winner . "
So if we play your game where does Levrone say " I was really pissed about not winning the 1994 Mr Olympia " oh thats right he doesn't bottom line he won and if I'm not mistaken with straight firsts as well. ;) and Shawn was happy with second and Kevin wasn't .
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exactly. read the quote- kevin was talking about the Tour not the olympia itself. Dorian was indeed much sharper in the tour (I used to have the mag that had the review and dorian, other than the biceps of course, looked a lot better than at the O.
Kevin may not publicly trash Dorian's win, but I can't see how anyone could really be happy with Dorian getting firsts with the way that he looked that night..
I have to question whether or not Shawn was happy about loosing, according to what he has said on these boards about 1994, he was anything but, and if I recall, he pretty much lost all faith in the judging after that contest.
he continued because he loved to bodybuild, not because he felt that he had any real control over whether he could win the O. or not.
After all, if YOU showed up looking like Shawn did in 94 and still lost given the way that Dorian did, wouldn't you feel the same way?
I know I would..
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
:-\
Shawn should be a two time Mr. Olympia right now..
So, Shawn, if you are reading this,
were you happy with second in 94?
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exactly. read the quote- kevin was talking about the Tour not the olympia itself. Dorian was indeed much sharper in the tour (I used to have the mag that had the review and dorian, other than the biceps of course, looked a lot better than at the O.
Kevin may not publicly trash Dorian's win, but I can't see how anyone could really be happy with Dorian getting firsts with the way that he looked that night..
I have to question whether or not Shawn was happy about loosing, according to what he has said on these boards about 1994, he was anything but, and if I recall, he pretty much lost all faith in the judging after that contest.
he continued because he loved to bodybuild, not because he felt that he had any real control over whether he could win the O. or not.
After all, if YOU showed up looking like Shawn did in 94 and still lost given the way that Dorian did, wouldn't you feel the same way?
I know I would..
]
:-\
Shawn should be a two time Mr. Olympia right now..
So, Shawn, if you are reading this,
were you happy with second in 94?
Flex Magazine Jan 1995 Shawn Ray on his 2nd place at the 1994 Mr Olympia
" Tonight I feel that I got what I deserved . "
with a beaming smile , Shawn concluded " This is the first time in three years I haven't retired the night of the show and got drunk. "
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Jay is overrated. Not as much as the Supreme Ruler of All Overratedness, Dorian Yates, but still overrated none the less ;)
This is the most I've ever agreed with you, H.
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(http://thunderdroid.nightly.net/misc/swirlydan.gif)
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Flex Magazine Jan 1995 Shawn Ray on his 2nd place at the 1994 Mr Olympia
" Tonight I feel that I got what I deserved . "
with a beaming smile , Shawn concluded " This is the first time in three years I haven't retired the night of the show and got drunk. "
maybe not the night of the show, but Shawn sure as hell must have been drunk during that interview! 8)
Shawn smoked Dorian that night. To quote Musclemags 94 Olympia contest review:
"other than the mind boggling thickness in the upper back, there was little else about Dorian's physique that overshadowed Shawn".
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(http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/dorian_yates/dy03.jpg)
That back double bi shot takes out Ronnie's back double bi.....
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(http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/dorian_yates/dy03.jpg)
That back double bi shot takes out Ronnie's back double bi.....
I HOPE YOU'RE JOKING.
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(http://membres.lycos.fr/bodybuilders/bodybuilding/dorian_yates/dy03.jpg)
That back double bi shot takes out Ronnie's back double bi.....
That takes out Jay
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That takes out Jay
and ronnie
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and ronnie
WRONG, SORRY, AND NO OFFENCE, BUT YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
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WRONG, SORRY, AND NO OFFENCE, BUT YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
Based on your responses I have seen in this forum, the only idiot around here is you. And please learn how to spell offense.
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What went wrong after 1998?
More than anything, there's been a steep decline in talent. Most guys who have earned their pro card since 1998 are not pro caliber. There used to be talented rookies making immediate impacts. Guys like Dorian Yates, Flex Wheeler, Mike Francois, Porter Cottrell, and Kevin Levrone. For whatever reason, talented physiques like these don't come up from the amateur ranks like they used to.
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Before we just had the magazines.
After the mid 90´s the internet made it possible for pros to market themselves on the internet,
Pictures and Pros posting on the net started to show the world that a pro is often just a dumb juiced up retarded person dressing up
as a clown with bad attitude.
BB´s like Guy Grundy and kamali make ppl start laugh at and ridicule pro bb´ing.
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and ronnie
sorry mate.. although I'm not a fan, perhaps never but I don't think he can beat Ronnie in back double bi.
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that just may be the best back double bi shot EVER. not only is it extremely, detailed and thick but that is also 260 lbs. - compared to ronnie's best iin 98 at a bw of 247. imagine how that would look in person.
not many peole have a christmas tree while doing a double bi shot.
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I think that shot smokes any back shot from Ronnie , look at how low his lats insert its almost at his pelvis and his back is imensely thick and separated and like someone else pointed out you can see an x-mas tree in the back double bicepshot , that back shot is complete from head to toe , he has ripped glutes and his hams look great coupled that with amazing calves and you have a back double bicep shot that can't be matched.
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Based on your responses I have seen in this forum, the only idiot around here is you. And please learn how to spell offense.
HAHA,LISTEN TO THIS CLOWN, HE ACTUALLY BELIVES HIMSELF, HAHAHA!!!!
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THATS A GOOD SHOT OF DORIAN, BUT THEIR ARE MUCH BETTER SHOTS OF RONNIE IN THE BACK DOUBLE BI, RONNIE HAS YATES BEAT ON, BACK, ARMS, GLUTES AND HAMSTRINGS, EVERYTHING BUT CALVES. BUT OH WAIT, GOING BY THE LOGIC OF SOME OF YOU IDIOTS, YATES HAS BETTER CALVES SO HE WINS!!!! ::)
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LIGHTS OUT DORIAN NUTHUGGERS/RONNIE HATERS, LIGHTS OUT BABY HAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=50015.0
DORIAN NUTHUGGERS/RONNIE HATERS=O W N E D, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, WHY DO THEY KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE? WE'LL NEVER KNOW, THEY MUST LOVE GETTING OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
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I made the comment "Tongue and Cheek" to the reporter. :-[
1st of all I dont get drunk.
2nd of all, I knew I was not going to win after Pre Jugding by speaking with one of the Expeditors in the know :'(.
That being said it was easier to perform at the night show and enjoy myself knowing the end result without surprise or expectation, which is why I made that comment.
I have since gotten over the loss but looking back 11 years now I sympathize with Wheeler, Levrone & Cutler all of whom could have won the Olympia but didn't. :-\
Nothing to cry about but that's the way things go.
I was there, I did my best and I have since moved on.
I personally was never a Yates Physique fan and made no bones about that in the Press but as a person he seemed cool and collected.
Peace,
Shawn
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that just may be the best back double bi shot EVER.
SINCE YOU'RE SLOBBERING OVER YATES, ENJOY THIS..
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quality of physiques went down hill after 1998! Why,how what happend?
It's the insulin, bro. Many people point their fingers at GH and synthol, but the reality is that the bloaed aists and smooth muscles, which have become so common since those days, have insulin to blame for their existence.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Gunter looked excellent this year and his placing was no gift. If anyhting he should've placed higher.
Your hero, Ronnie, has his share of gifts and he adds to them every passing year.
Get the hell out of here
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1994 Olympia was the turning point...
(http://www.emusclemag.com/webimages/sandows/yates/1_lrg.jpg)
that was the first contest where the huge, powerlifter type physique, complete with gut and torn muscles, defeated a career best shape shawn ray, all because shawn was "smaller" ::)
I knew Hulkster would mention 1994 Olympia!!....but he is right. :-\
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it was whenever Haney left.....
:-\
Yep. After Lee, size became the only thing judges gave a shit about.
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i think yates never got any gift placings.yates and his grainy condition was too much for any 1 to handle.i think so none of his victories were close call.his back in 1994 was just too big and from the rear yates was in his league of his own and his monster calves wich were truly unmatched.no one.......!!!!!!i say no one was even close 2 yatesin back poses and side chest poses and his trade mark triceps pose and all in all yates was unbeatable
and second of all ronnie coleman did not win only because of hams and glutes......FLEX WHEELER IS THE MOST OVERRATED f**cker EVER.......HE SHOULD HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN A PRO.SAME WITH FUCKIN SHAWN'THE GIRLY VOICED' RAY.......ronnie won by virtue of his back,hams ,glutets,armsetc.ronnie had the whole package and thats it.....i will say yates and coleman r at par with each other...no difference wat so ever.and yes gut or no guts.they both were equallly good and the total sandow count of 14 was the result......
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that just may be the best back double bi shot EVER. not only is it extremely, detailed and thick but that is also 260 lbs. - compared to ronnie's best iin 98 at a bw of 247. imagine how that would look in person.
not many peole have a christmas tree while doing a double bi shot.
I take it that you are not a fan?
Guy
www.grundydvd.com
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Yates in 97 was a gift , Yates in 94 was not , no one complained about Dorian's win in 94 , and even Shawn Ray said he got the place he deserved so on paper Yates got one gift and Coleman got a gift in 98 by virtue of ripped glutes & tigher hams , 2001 he got a huge gift and you can make a hard case for Levrone in 2000 and 2002 , but either way Coleman has many more close calls so who is overrated? ;)
If you think 98 was a gift you have no eyes!
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I made the comment "Tongue and Cheek" to the reporter. :-[
1st of all I dont get drunk.
2nd of all, I knew I was not going to win after Pre Jugding by speaking with one of the Expeditors in the know :'(.
That being said it was easier to perform at the night show and enjoy myself knowing the end result without surprise or expectation, which is why I made that comment.
I have since gotten over the loss but looking back 11 years now I sympathize with Wheeler, Levrone & Cutler all of whom could have won the Olympia but didn't. :-\
Nothing to cry about but that's the way things go.
I was there, I did my best and I have since moved on.
I personally was never a Yates Physique fan and made no bones about that in the Press but as a person he seemed cool and collected.
Peace,
Shawn
THESE R THE WORDS OF A LOSER...UR NOTHING BUT A LOUD MOUTH LOSER....
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If you think 98 was a gift you have no eyes!
Narcissistic Deity is a blind fool! ;D
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hahahaha monster Yates vs Coleman fuel to the fued that will last forever..
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Bodybuilders trying to play the size game, that's what went wrong. Can you think of any bodybuilders that looked their best at their heaviest contest weight? You would have to go all the way back to Lee Haney, a time when bodybuilders didn't emphasize bodyweight. Yates, Coleman, Levrone, Wheeler, Cutler; none of the top guys the last 15 years who have come in at their heaviest have looked their best. Using the scales as a barometer of progress has hurt bodybuilding.
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more money, more juice, more everything, what did you expect?