Author Topic: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????  (Read 14972 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2007, 12:00:22 PM »
Doesn't the water that is taken up with the glycogen have a bigger impact than the actual glycogen level?  Assuming that 4x as much water is taken up as glycgoen, it seems that would have a bigger impact on appearance. 
Water molecules do stick to Glycogen, but would not create a visual difference as the amounts are not enough to warrant a change, especially from a "Carb-up".

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2007, 12:05:18 PM »
A Carbup is utterly USELESS.

You are just restoring glycogen to the liver for the most part.    It WILL NOT MAKE A VISUAL DIFFERENCE.

@ You are wrong. Its just too easy.  Breyers Ice Cream + anti gravity suits.  ::)


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Krankenstein

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2007, 12:06:04 PM »
I am 100 percent Positive that NOBODY can provide me ANY Photographical evidence of this myth.

I want to see a picture of someone "LOOKING FLAT" and not "LOOKING FLAT".

Preferably the same person.

Or the same person before and after.

I have a feeling NOBODY can show this to me as it is a huge myth a lot of you have been subscribing to for a VERY long time.

Thing is Adam....when you look good the day before the show you are trying to hold that condition....sometimes you take pics because you are really happy with it.  Then, the next morning you do what you have to do with regard to food and if you start to notice the 'spill', your thoughts are NOT on "Gee, lets get a camera and get some photographic evidence of this."  All you're thinking is "how in the fuck do I correct this???"  Guys using 'extra' supps can do it with relative ease.....but natties....shit, we generally are screwed!!!!

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2007, 12:07:02 PM »
@ You are wrong. Its just so easy.  ::) Breyers Ice Cream + anti gravity suits.


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Ice Cream DOES work, anyone can eat.

My Gravity Suit, while purely theroetical, WOULD WORK.


Your ULTRA-HIGH PROTEIN diet does nothing.


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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #79 on: March 06, 2007, 12:08:27 PM »
Thing is Adam....when you look good the day before the show you are trying to hold that condition....sometimes you take pics because you are really happy with it.  Then, the next morning you do what you have to do with regard to food and if you start to notice the 'spill', your thoughts are NOT on "Gee, lets get a camera and get some photographic evidence of this."  All you're thinking is "how in the fuck do I correct this???"  Guys using 'extra' supps can do it with relative ease.....but natties....shit, we generally are screwed!!!!
Define "Spill" and please show me some evidence of what a "Spill" is.

I still have no clue what a Spill is.

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #80 on: March 06, 2007, 12:10:12 PM »
True Adonis when are you going to post your deadlifting clip?

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2007, 12:10:49 PM »
Ice Cream DOES work, anyone can eat.

My Gravity Suit, while purely theroetical, WOULD WORK.


Your ULTRA-HIGH PROTEIN diet does nothing.



meltdown.

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2007, 12:11:57 PM »
Ice Cream DOES work, anyone can eat.

My Gravity Suit, while purely theroetical, WOULD WORK.


Your ULTRA-HIGH PROTEIN diet does nothing.



Start with doing searches on the

Thermic effect of feeding or Thermic effect of food (TEF)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_effect_of_food

---------------------------------

Dr. Lonnie Lowery: Now might be a good time to discuss the potential for protein over-consumption. As you both know, there's no consensus (or even a single study to my knowledge) that excess protein (> 0.8 g/kg) does any measurable damage to healthy kidneys. Most of the scare tactics stem from the data on renal patients.

These patients end up with rapid loss of kidney function on normal high protein diets. Interestingly, the very professionals who point out every mistaken extrapolation in the dietary supplement world conveniently forget that they're doing the same "leap of faith" bullshit by applying this patient data to healthy athletes.

Having said that, I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That's right, overfeed protein! First off, overeating protein, within reason, will not make you fat. A calorie is not a calorie! That is, excess protein calories aren't as likely to be stored as body fat compared to carbs and most fats.

This is because protein has to have its nitrogen ripped off in the liver (the urea cycle), which is an energy costly process. To boot, protein kicks up glucagon secretion and glucagon antagonizes the lipogenic (fat storage) effects of insulin.

Carbs don't lend people the same favor; they just jack insulin levels sky high. The net result is that the thermic effect of food is about 30% of the intake for proteins, while it's just 4 to 6% for fats and carbohydrates. This means that for a 100 calorie meal, protein will require a full 30 calories just to process it, compared to a mere 4 to 6 calories expended to process those yummy gut-expanding carbs and fats.

The bottom line is that it appears better to overeat than to under-eat protein when you're trying to add muscle mass while keeping the body fat off.

--------------------------------------------------

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/1/72

-------------------------------------------------

Welle et al. (1981) and Robinson et al (1990) demonstrated that during a normal six hour period of rest and fasting (basal metabolism), subjects burn about 270kcal. When eating a single 400kcal meal of carbs alone (100g) or fat alone (44g), the energy burned during this six hour period reached 290kcal (an additional 20kcal). Interestingly, when eating 400kcal of protein alone (100g) the subjects burned 310kcal during this six hour period (an additional 40kcal). Therefore, protein alone had double the thermogenic power vs. fat or carbs alone!

---------------

Doggcrapp::You add exercise into the mix of this equation and the results are greatly enhanced.

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2007, 12:14:56 PM »
Lets not get off the subject though

please continue on Adam with the topic at hand and (insert foot in mouth)

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2007, 12:17:41 PM »
Start with doing searches on the

Thermic effect of feeding or Thermic effect of food (TEF)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_effect_of_food

---------------------------------

Dr. Lonnie Lowery: Now might be a good time to discuss the potential for protein over-consumption. As you both know, there's no consensus (or even a single study to my knowledge) that excess protein (> 0.8 g/kg) does any measurable damage to healthy kidneys. Most of the scare tactics stem from the data on renal patients.

These patients end up with rapid loss of kidney function on normal high protein diets. Interestingly, the very professionals who point out every mistaken extrapolation in the dietary supplement world conveniently forget that they're doing the same "leap of faith" bullshit by applying this patient data to healthy athletes.

Having said that, I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That's right, overfeed protein! First off, overeating protein, within reason, will not make you fat. A calorie is not a calorie! That is, excess protein calories aren't as likely to be stored as body fat compared to carbs and most fats.

This is because protein has to have its nitrogen ripped off in the liver (the urea cycle), which is an energy costly process. To boot, protein kicks up glucagon secretion and glucagon antagonizes the lipogenic (fat storage) effects of insulin.

Carbs don't lend people the same favor; they just jack insulin levels sky high. The net result is that the thermic effect of food is about 30% of the intake for proteins, while it's just 4 to 6% for fats and carbohydrates. This means that for a 100 calorie meal, protein will require a full 30 calories just to process it, compared to a mere 4 to 6 calories expended to process those yummy gut-expanding carbs and fats.

The bottom line is that it appears better to overeat than to under-eat protein when you're trying to add muscle mass while keeping the body fat off.

--------------------------------------------------

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/1/72

-------------------------------------------------

Welle et al. (1981) and Robinson et al (1990) demonstrated that during a normal six hour period of rest and fasting (basal metabolism), subjects burn about 270kcal. When eating a single 400kcal meal of carbs alone (100g) or fat alone (44g), the energy burned during this six hour period reached 290kcal (an additional 20kcal). Interestingly, when eating 400kcal of protein alone (100g) the subjects burned 310kcal during this six hour period (an additional 40kcal). Therefore, protein alone had double the thermogenic power vs. fat or carbs alone!

---------------

Doggcrapp::You add exercise into the mix of this equation and the results are greatly enhanced.


I have ALREADY BEEN THROUGH this with you!

The THERMIC EFFECT of 6-8 meals is minimal!

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.

qiniz

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2007, 12:19:15 PM »
I have ALREADY BEEN THROUGH this with you!

The THERMIC EFFECT of 6-8 meals is minimal!

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.



TA when are you going to post your deadlifting video?

Krankenstein

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2007, 12:21:35 PM »
Define "Spill" and please show me some evidence of what a "Spill" is.

I still have no clue what a Spill is.

Once again Adam....you wont find PROOF as in "here is me looking good, here is me spilled over".  If you want an example, follow a traditional deplete/load routine as done for a competition.  Keep an eye on your condition.  Now, keep eating.....and keep eating...thinking you will keep looking better.  At some point you will cease to look better.  In fact, you will most likely look smoother.  With all due respect, you will never do this though.  You will never subject yourself to it because you do feel that your way of dieting down is so superior to everyone elses.  Thats fine.  You're entitled to it.  The thing to keep in mind is that if you want your proof, simply follow what I just outline to you. 

You see Adam...it DOES happen.  You look AWESOME the night before a show.  You get up in the morning...go through your meals thinking your body will continue to pull water in for digestion....thus tightening you up....but at some point it stops.  By the time you step on stage...you look like shit.  Remember Adam, I dont have a problem with you...and you with me....but there are some things you wont see or recognize unless you actually go through with it....like a show.  The Mr. Get Big thing is bullshit as far as I am concerned.  Seriously...do a natural show...the NANBF....the NGA.....the INBF...something.  Stand up there for 30 mins under the lights.....holding everyting....sweating your ass off. 

Instead of thinking its a myth....put yourself through the paces.  Remember the whole thing about "before you say anything, walk a mile in my shoes"??

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2007, 12:23:16 PM »

TA when are you going to post your deadlifting video?


... or VVV steroid cycle

...or the proof he sell ssteroids over the internet

...or the proof for your ridiculous claims that bodybuilders are funding the el quaida

...


the list is endless. TA is full of shit.

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2007, 12:23:59 PM »
Once again Adam....you wont find PROOF as in "here is me looking good, here is me spilled over".  If you want an example, follow a traditional deplete/load routine as done for a competition.  Keep an eye on your condition.  Now, keep eating.....and keep eating...thinking you will keep looking better.  At some point you will cease to look better.  In fact, you will most likely look smoother.  With all due respect, you will never do this though.  You will never subject yourself to it because you do feel that your way of dieting down is so superior to everyone elses.  Thats fine.  You're entitled to it.  The thing to keep in mind is that if you want your proof, simply follow what I just outline to you. 

You see Adam...it DOES happen.  You look AWESOME the night before a show.  You get up in the morning...go through your meals thinking your body will continue to pull water in for digestion....thus tightening you up....but at some point it stops.  By the time you step on stage...you look like shit.  Remember Adam, I dont have a problem with you...and you with me....but there are some things you wont see or recognize unless you actually go through with it....like a show.  The Mr. Get Big thing is bullshit as far as I am concerned.  Seriously...do a natural show...the NANBF....the NGA.....the INBF...something.  Stand up there for 30 mins under the lights.....holding everyting....sweating your ass off. 

Instead of thinking its a myth....put yourself through the paces.  Remember the whole thing about "before you say anything, walk a mile in my shoes"??

How about this.

I AM WILLING to do it under your guidance with a plan you lay out.

I would be willing to take pictures, videos etc.

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2007, 12:25:45 PM »
Let me clarify.

I will do a Carb Load and deplete under your guidance.


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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2007, 12:29:45 PM »
Let me clarify.

I will do a Carb Load and deplete under your guidance.




Will you post your deadlift vid please??

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2007, 12:30:32 PM »

Will you post your deadlift vid please??
Not right now.  I am busy.

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2007, 12:31:57 PM »
TA is asking for proof, to say there is none because no one can be bothered is a piss poor reason to expect him to stop seeking the truth. WHy are you guys so defensive. If this phenomoenon occurrs as you say then there must be a scientific explanation behind it. To expect someone to accept it just because you say so is arrogant to say the least.

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2007, 12:32:49 PM »
I am somewhat impressed with TA.

Nobody has come up with any pics to prove him wrong.

The True Adonis

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2007, 12:33:31 PM »
Muscle glycogen storage and its relationship with water.Sherman WM, Plyley MJ, Sharp RL, Van Handel PJ, McAllister RM, Fink WJ, Costill DL.
This study examined the relationship between muscle glycogen and muscle water content. Exercise dietary manipulations were used to vary skeletal muscle glycogen levels in four groups of rodents: (1) eight animals were sedentary controls (SC); (2) ten animals were treadmill familiarized and allowed to recover 24 h before sacrifice (F); (3) ten animals were treadmill familiarized and exercised to exhaustion (E); (4) ten animals were treadmill familiarized, exercised to exhaustion, and allowed to recover with food and water ad libitum for 72 h (ER). All animals were sacrificed in a resting state to normalize intracellular, extracellular, and interstitial water compartments; thus, the E group was sacrificed 45 m in following their run. The treatments altered skeletal muscle glycogen to values ranging from 10.0 to 30.2 mumol glucosyl units/g wet tissue weight. Neither muscle triglyceride nor protein levels were affected by the treatments. Muscle water content expressed as mumol H2O lost/g wet tissue weight or made relative to protein content showed no consistent relationship to the glycogen content. These data, therefore, do not support the commonly accepted muscle glycogen-to-water ratio of 1.0:2.7 (g:g). Further work is necessary to quantify the exact amount of water that is actually associated with the glycogen complex.
PMID: 7068293 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2007, 12:37:07 PM »
How about this.

I AM WILLING to do it under your guidance with a plan you lay out.

I would be willing to take pictures, videos etc.

Videos....Is it just me or does this sound familiar?  :o
Maybe you want to make another bet about the video? :o

onlyme

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2007, 12:38:23 PM »
How much abuse can Apenis take.  This guy is proven time in and time out to be wrong yet he persists.  Is he really this stupid.  YES!  But, it is comical to see a guy bury himself everyday.  

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2007, 12:40:17 PM »
I have ALREADY BEEN THROUGH this with you!

The THERMIC EFFECT of 6-8 meals is minimal!

This is because protein DOES have a thermogenic effect on the body...........but not enough to make an impact! Here's where everyone is missing the point. Sure, protein causes the body to work harder to digest it, which causes the body's internal temperature to rise, but it is NOT enough to really make a dent in burning fat or preserving muscle mass.

Researchers at Arizona State University examined individuals that ate a high protein diet and compared them to another group that ate a high carb diet. What they found was that eating a high protein diet resulted in an average of 30 calories per meal being burned in digestion.

Read that again.......30 calories per meal. Whoop-tee, doo!!! 30 calories! Okay, then let's say you eat 5 meals a day. 30 calories per meal, 5 meals a day, that equals 150 calories. So, you would only be burning an extra 150 calories a day if you were to go on a high protein diet. Big deal!!!! 150 calories is 1 cup of milk. It's 2 eggs. It's half a candy bar. 150 calories isn't going to make any difference whatsoever in helping you gain weight, build muscle mass, or burn fat.

Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, but you can eat more protein and not gain any fat because of the thermogenic effect". Give me a break........150 calories.....I rather just cut out 1 can of soda a day and get the same effect!

Don't be fooled by the "high-protein" fans. They just want you to go out and spend your hard-earned money on their bucket of protein. If you are looking to gain weight and build muscle, concentrate on the overall calories.


Do you actually read the studies you talk about?

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/1/55

Ten healthy, normal weight, non-smoking female volunteers aged 19-22 years

change that to ten 230lb plus hard training offseason bodybuilders eating 6-7 meals a day and the (daily) thermic effect would be equal to roughly 45 minutes on a treadmill calorie wise PLUS thermogenesis at 2.5 hours post-meal averaged about twofold higher on the high protein diet versus the high carbohydrate diet


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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2007, 12:41:07 PM »
Adam....there are a TON of resources out there that tell you how to do it.  Just try it.  The thing that I have was given to me by someone who preps people for shows....so me giving that out would not be fair to them. 

Ask Layne for his article on final week.....then, one the last day dont follow it....

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Re: CAN SOMEOME PROVIDE PHOTOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE OF????????????
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2007, 12:41:17 PM »
Videos....Is it just me or does this sound familiar?  :o
Maybe you want to make another bet about the video? :o

ahahahaahaa, TA is a total idiot.

Do you actually read the studies you talk about?

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/1/55

Ten healthy, normal weight, non-smoking female volunteers aged 19-22 years

change that to ten 230lb plus hard training offseason bodybuilders eating 6-7 meals a day and the (daily) thermic effect would be equal to roughly 45 minutes on a treadmill calorie wise PLUS thermogenesis at 2.5 hours post-meal averaged about twofold higher on the high protein diet versus the high carbohydrate diet

Thanks Dante!!

TA, you just got owned.

Again.