Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?

[loco]

Shroud of Turin compels decades of study

By Sharon McBrayer | The News Herald

October 5, 2008

Valdese - Dr. Frank Steele has been studying the Shroud of Turin since the 1960s.
He first became interested in it after his brother handed him a book on the subject and told him to read three pages.

"I was hooked," Steele said.

The shroud is a linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. Many believe that man was Jesus of Nazareth and the cloth was placed on him at the time of his death.

Still others believe the cloth is a hoax; a fake that an artist or artists created.

A display on the shroud was opened on Sunday in one of the art galleries at the Old Rock School in Valdese as part of the Art of Science Exposition.

The Shroud of Turin is kept in the Cathedral of San Giovanni Battista in Turin, Italy. It was there in 1978, along with 3 million other people that Steele got a first-hand look at the shroud.
Steele is convinced the shroud is authentic.

Steele talked to folks at the Old Rock School on Sunday about the display and about his research and knowledge of the shroud.

With photos of the shroud hanging on the wall of the gallery, Steele points out various items on the photo, such as the wrist of the image. He said there is a separation in bone along the wrist that would be in line with a crucifixion. He also points out an area of the chest that suggests a hole.

Steele also points out two rows of teeth, which he says suggests a type of X-ray image. The shroud has been kept in Turin since the 1500s.

The person who was covered in the shroud, though, was only in it for four days, Steele said.
How, then, did an image of a person become imposed on the cloth?

Steele said all of the Biblical accounts of the resurrection of Christ differ in some ways but each one mentions bright light. That light or energy is what Steele believes produced the image.

So what is the significance of the shroud?

"It's information about Jesus," Steele said. "If it's real, then this man was real and he died exactly the way they said he did."

The shroud display will be at the Old Rock School for six weeks, said Elizabeth Furr, director of Rock School Arts Foundation.

Steele will give an in-depth lecture on the Shroud at 7 p.m. on Oct. 23 in Gallery II of the Old Rock School.

http://www2.morganton.com/content/2008/oct/05/051947/Shroud-of-Turin-compels-decades-of-study/

[Oldschool Flip]

Lol, is it me or does the shroud emulate the look of white Jesus on crosses and pictures of today? Let's face it, Jesus wasn't a white man. With middle eastern decent, that should be the first tip off.

[loco]

Lol, is it me or does the shroud emulate the look of white Jesus on crosses and pictures of today? Let's face it, Jesus wasn't a white man. With middle eastern decent, that should be the first tip off.

The shroud says nothing about the color of the skin of the corpse.  And the Jesus on crosses and pictures in medieval art had nails through the hands and not through the wrists.

[liberalismo]

It was an early attempt at photograph from the 13th century. A shroud resting ontop of a human wouldn't have produced such a 3d appearing imprint on the cloth like the shroud has, it's just too perfect. The person depicted on the shroud is also of obvious European origin, which is obvious based on the facial features. A 1st century Jew living in Galilee would have looked nothing like the person on the shroud.

[Oldschool Flip]

The shroud says nothing about the color of the skin of the corpse.  And the Jesus on crosses and pictures in medieval art had nails through the hands and not through the wrists.

The resemblance is uncanny. Hold up the shroud and any of those pics and voila! Please. And I'm not talking medieval art, I'm talking the pictures and images that circulate today. Oh explain this one loco: if you claim that the nails are through the WRISTS, then why did he show doubting Thomas his HANDS? Or is that a mistranslation, which would make the Bible fallible?

Suddenly Jesus is standing there among us! “Peace be with you,”  he said. As he spoke, he held out his hands and we saw his wounded side. Most of us were filled with joy when we saw our Lord but not you. Then Jesus walks over and says to you: “Thomas, put your finger here in my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!” (from John 20:20-27)

So um who's right here?

[loco]

The resemblance is uncanny. Hold up the shroud and any of those pics and voila! Please. And I'm not talking medieval art, I'm talking the pictures and images that circulate today. Oh explain this one loco: if you claim that the nails are through the WRISTS, then why did he show doubting Thomas his HANDS? Or is that a mistranslation, which would make the Bible fallible?

Suddenly Jesus is standing there among us! “Peace be with you,”  he said. As he spoke, he held out his hands and we saw his wounded side. Most of us were filled with joy when we saw our Lord but not you. Then Jesus walks over and says to you: “Thomas, put your finger here in my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!” (from John 20:20-27)

So um who's right here?

Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the wrists as part of the hand.

"The human hand consists of a broad palm (metacarpus) with 5 digits, attached to the forearm by a joint called the wrist (carpus)."

References:

"Nature Bulletin No. 611". Division of Educational Programs, Argonne National Laboratory (1960-10-01). Retrieved on 2007-12-24.

"hand". Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press. 2nd ed. 1989.

[tu_holmes]

Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the wrists as part of the hand.

"The human hand consists of a broad palm (metacarpus) with 5 digits, attached to the forearm by a joint called the wrist (carpus)."

References:

"Nature Bulletin No. 611". Division of Educational Programs, Argonne National Laboratory (1960-10-01). Retrieved on 2007-12-24.

"hand". Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press. 2nd ed. 1989.

Many scientific studies have been done and there is no way that the human hand (palm) could support the weight of a human being.

[loco]

Many scientific studies have been done and there is no way that the human hand (palm) could support the weight of a human being.

Right.  The nails went through the wrists.

[Oldschool Flip]

Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the wrists as part of the hand.

"The human hand consists of a broad palm (metacarpus) with 5 digits, attached to the forearm by a joint called the wrist (carpus)."

References:

"Nature Bulletin No. 611". Division of Educational Programs, Argonne National Laboratory (1960-10-01). Retrieved on 2007-12-24.

"hand". Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press. 2nd ed. 1989.

Who cares what anatomists think? In Greek there are separate words for wrist and hands. If they meant wrists, they would have said wrists.

More importantly, in Greek there are separate words for wrists and hands (just as there are in English), so one has to assume that when the Gospel of John refers to hands they are talking about hands and not wrists. For example, when the Gospel of John refers to fingers (20:25, 20:27) or being slapped with hands (19:3) different words were used, so had the Gospel writers intended to use the word for wrists, surely they would have used it.

http://www.jesuspolice.com/common_error.php?id=15

Not to mention he asked Thomas to touch him, but a contradicting verse before says NOT to touch him since he hasn't seen his father yet.

Jesus was crucified on the day of the Passover in AD 31, which fell that year on a Wednesday. God resurrected Him at the end of the weekly Sabbath (Saturday). He appeared to Mary Magdalene the next morning, the day after the weekly Sabbath during Unleavened Bread, when the priests presented the wavesheaf offering. He did not permit her to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Just as the High Priest had to wave the sheaf of grain before the spring harvest began, so our Savior had to ascend to the Father that day to be accepted before Him. Once this happened, He allowed His disciples to touch Him (cf. Matthew 28:9; John 20:20-28).

So how could he ask Thomas to touch him, when it was forbidden?

[loco]

Who cares what anatomists think? In Greek there are separate words for wrist and hands. If they meant wrists, they would have said wrists.

More importantly, in Greek there are separate words for wrists and hands (just as there are in English), so one has to assume that when the Gospel of John refers to hands they are talking about hands and not wrists. For example, when the Gospel of John refers to fingers (20:25, 20:27) or being slapped with hands (19:3) different words were used, so had the Gospel writers intended to use the word for wrists, surely they would have used it.

http://www.jesuspolice.com/common_error.php?id=15

Oh really?  And what is the ancient Greek word for "hand" and what is the ancient Greek word for "wrist"?

And what ancient Greek word exactly did the Bible use for "hand" right there in that Bible verse?

Not to mention he asked Thomas to touch him, but a contradicting verse before says NOT to touch him since he hasn't seen his father yet.

Jesus was crucified on the day of the Passover in AD 31, which fell that year on a Wednesday. God resurrected Him at the end of the weekly Sabbath (Saturday). He appeared to Mary Magdalene the next morning, the day after the weekly Sabbath during Unleavened Bread, when the priests presented the wavesheaf offering. He did not permit her to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Just as the High Priest had to wave the sheaf of grain before the spring harvest began, so our Savior had to ascend to the Father that day to be accepted before Him. Once this happened, He allowed His disciples to touch Him (cf. Matthew 28:9; John 20:20-28).

So how could he ask Thomas to touch him, when it was forbidden?

Please don't derail my thread.  This has nothing to do with the Shroud of Turin.  If you really want to discuss this one, then please start a new thread.

[Oldschool Flip]

Oh really?  And what is the ancient Greek word for "hand" and what is the ancient Greek word for "wrist"?

χέρι= hand
καρπό= wrist

http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_greek.html

And what ancient Greek word exactly did the Bible use for "hand" right there in that Bible verse?

καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἔδειξεν (καὶ) τὰς χεῖρας(hands) καὶ τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῖς· ἐχάρησαν οὖν οἱ μαθηταὶ ἰδόντες τὸν κύριον. John 20:20

Please don't derail my thread.  This has nothing to do with the Shroud of Turin.  If you really want to discuss this one, then please start a new thread.

You're right it doesn't. But it's funny that it contradicts itself.

[loco]

χέρι= hand
καρπό= wrist

http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_greek.htmlκαὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἔδειξεν (καὶ) τὰς χεῖρας(hands) καὶ τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῖς· ἐχάρησαν οὖν οἱ μαθηταὶ ἰδόντες τὸν κύριον. John 20:20

And is that Proto-Greek, Mycenaean, Ancient Greek, Koine Greek, Medieval Greek, Modern Greek?  Cool text translator by the way!

You're right it doesn't. But it's funny that it contradicts itself.

It doesn't contradict itself.

[Oldschool Flip]

And is that Proto-Greek, Mycenaean, Ancient Greek, Koine Greek, Medieval Greek, Modern Greek?  Cool text translator by the way!

It's the greek that I copied the scripture from.

It doesn't contradict itself.

Let's try again:

King James Bible
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


John 20:27  Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

So if he hasn't ascended, which he hadn't, then why allow touching?

[loco]

It's the greek that I copied the scripture from.

From where?  Did you not paste the English text in the text area and had the website translate it for you?  Again, is it Proto-Greek, Mycenaean, Ancient Greek, Koine Greek, Medieval Greek, Modern Greek?

Let's try again:

King James Bible
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


John 20:27  Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

So if he hasn't ascended, which he hadn't, then why allow touching?

Let's try again:

Create your own thread if you really want to debate this.

[Oldschool Flip]

From where?  Did you not paste the English text in the text area and had the website translate it for you?  Again, is it Proto-Greek, Mycenaean, Ancient Greek, Koine Greek, Medieval Greek, Modern Greek?

Here's the site.
http://biblos.com/john/20-20.htm

Let's try again:

Create your own thread if you really want to debate this.

Oh man, another thread on contradictions of the Bible. Hmmmm, I'll think about it. But it pretty much says what it says. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

[Deicide]

Right.  The nails went through the wrists.

Loco. It is a fucking fictional story. Wake up.

[The Luke]

Some of the people on this site know about my being a hobby-adventurer in my spare time (Sasquatch; Loch Ness; lost treasure; Templar sites; Masonic buildings etc etc)... so in my capacity as a Knower of Secrets, I'll let everyone in on the real skinny regarding the Turin Shroud.

Bare with me, I'm working from memory without Google-fu (it's 3am here):


After the first few Crusades, supposedly "genuine" relics from Jesus' homeland (a historical Jesus never existed, he is an adaption of the common mystery religion dying/resurrecting God-man) became big business all across Christendom. For example, Charlamagne carried the (supposed) actual Roman pilum (Legionary infantry spear) believed to have pierced Christ's side... which was manufactured to order for Charlemagne by the Church to solidify his claim to the throne of Christendom. Add to this the Grail Romances that furthered the Sangraal heresies... the Johannite; Templar; Mandean heresies based upon John the Baptist's finger; severed head; secret gospel respectively etc etc

Rumours of miraculous healing relics spread throughout Europe, often originating with the churches/cathedrals/families manufacturing the relics themselves. One such relic was the Odessa Shroud, a folded shroud bearing the ethereal image of a mans face famous as a healing relic across the Muslim lands (some Muslims attributed the Odessa Shroud to Issa, the Kashmiri Buddhist/Muslim version of Jesus).

The Lirey family (now known as the Charney family) manufactured a copy of the Odessa Shroud but didn't openly market it as a Muslim relic, instead they hinted that the image MIGHT be that of Jesus... they couldn't openly make such a claim without the Church's consent: better to establish the relic as a centre of pilgrimage first then have the Church ratify it for a cut of the profits later on.

Unfortunately, the local bishop had the new relic boiled twice then further boiled in oil washing out most of the paint... convinced of the fraudulence of the shroud, he also obtained a confession from a local artist who apparently had painted the shroud on commission from the Lirey family.


Rather than have the Church officially denounce the relic, the Lirey family simply withdrew it from the public for the next seventy years (long enough for everyone who had seen it to die).


What happened next is what has made the Turin Shroud such an enduring mystery:

The Lirey family hired a young aspiring artist named Leonardo from the town of Vinci (yes, that Leonardo "da" Vinci) who set to work re-engineering the shroud as an unassailable, irrefutable miracle.

He did this by using a "camera obscura" to photographically imprint a three-dimensional image of an actual scourged body (supposedly that of a Christian Knight crucified in Odessa) onto a piece of herringbone weave Jewish style burial cloth with three exposures (one for the front, one for the back, and a double exposure on the face... using his own face) and fixed the silver nitrate with urine: locking in the exposed image.

This "piss-picture" is easily reproducible and explains many of the problems with the Turin Shroud:
-the front image is 6% larger than the back image (different focal distances)
-the face is somewhat double exposed (Da Vinci added his own face)
-the cloth is chemically singed to produce the image (no paint)
-the image is three dimensional
-the blood on the cloth is bovine (cow blood) mixed with red ochre (to keep it red)
-there is no space between the front and back images (the cloth can't be wrapped over and under a body while maintaining the image alignments unless Jesus was two dimensional)

This "new" version of the Shroud displayed by the Lirey family is no longer considered a crude forgery like it's counterpart 70 years previous... suddenly everyone who sees it is astounded by it's miraculous image. This "new" Shroud was similarly washed and boiled without ever losing its image, this convinced the Medieval populace sufficiently that the Church had no choice but to ratify the Shroud as a genuine miraculous relic.


All of this is common knowledge among those in the know.

Some evidence:

-Da Vinci remained a favourite of the Lirey family for his entire life

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for heresy despite his hobby of dissecting human bodies

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for blasphemy despite him being an outspoken atheist

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for perversion despite his (somewhat) open homosexual lifestyle, yet they did prosecute Michelangelo

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for harbouring his mother (Catherina) a Cathar heretic ("old believer")

-in his old age (80+) Da Vinci was taken in by the Lirey family

-Da Vinci died in the arms of the head of the Lirey family

-upon his death, Da Vinci's heir/apprentice/lover sold all of the masters codices (notebooks), the Lirey family paid way over the odds to procure ONLY the codex covering the time he worked for them before the newly miraculous 3D Shroud was made public

-this codex; now worth hundreds of millions has NEVER been seen again


Some modern evidence:

-among the many pollens discovered on the Shroud, olive tree pollen is conspicuously absent

-the Shroud's radiocarbon dating hasn't faltered: instead it is centering in more and more on Da Vinci's lifetime

-identical shrouds have been produced using a mannequin; camera obscura room; silver nitrate and urine... every Shroud believer should try this, it makes a great science project


But the most damning evidence of all?:
The Church has consistently ruled out any testing for the presence of silver... THEY KNOW it's a urine-fixed silver nitrate proto-photograph: Islamic manuscripts detailing the development of such technology by Muslim scientists during the Middle Ages (probably the same sources used by Da Vinci) are abundant in the Vatican archives.



So... it's a fake... but as a Da Vinci masterpiece, it's an absolutely priceless awe-inspiring fake.



The Luke (Knower of Secrets)

[The Luke]

PS... end of thread.


The Luke

[The Luke]

Just had a check on my late night posting regarding the Turin Shroud and must admit I'm very impressed by my coherence at 4am.

Maybe I should make all my posts in the wee hours of the morning.


The Luke

PS-...still end of thread.

[loco]

Some of the people on this site know about my being a hobby-adventurer in my spare time (Sasquatch; Loch Ness; lost treasure; Templar sites; Masonic buildings etc etc)... so in my capacity as a Knower of Secrets, I'll let everyone in on the real skinny regarding the Turin Shroud.

Bare with me, I'm working from memory without Google-fu (it's 3am here):


After the first few Crusades, supposedly "genuine" relics from Jesus' homeland (a historical Jesus never existed, he is an adaption of the common mystery religion dying/resurrecting God-man) became big business all across Christendom. For example, Charlamagne carried the (supposed) actual Roman pilum (Legionary infantry spear) believed to have pierced Christ's side... which was manufactured to order for Charlemagne by the Church to solidify his claim to the throne of Christendom. Add to this the Grail Romances that furthered the Sangraal heresies... the Johannite; Templar; Mandean heresies based upon John the Baptist's finger; severed head; secret gospel respectively etc etc

Rumours of miraculous healing relics spread throughout Europe, often originating with the churches/cathedrals/families manufacturing the relics themselves. One such relic was the Odessa Shroud, a folded shroud bearing the ethereal image of a mans face famous as a healing relic across the Muslim lands (some Muslims attributed the Odessa Shroud to Issa, the Kashmiri Buddhist/Muslim version of Jesus).

The Lirey family (now known as the Charney family) manufactured a copy of the Odessa Shroud but didn't openly market it as a Muslim relic, instead they hinted that the image MIGHT be that of Jesus... they couldn't openly make such a claim without the Church's consent: better to establish the relic as a centre of pilgrimage first then have the Church ratify it for a cut of the profits later on.

Unfortunately, the local bishop had the new relic boiled twice then further boiled in oil washing out most of the paint... convinced of the fraudulence of the shroud, he also obtained a confession from a local artist who apparently had painted the shroud on commission from the Lirey family.


Rather than have the Church officially denounce the relic, the Lirey family simply withdrew it from the public for the next seventy years (long enough for everyone who had seen it to die).


What happened next is what has made the Turin Shroud such an enduring mystery:

The Lirey family hired a young aspiring artist named Leonardo from the town of Vinci (yes, that Leonardo "da" Vinci) who set to work re-engineering the shroud as an unassailable, irrefutable miracle.

He did this by using a "camera obscura" to photographically imprint a three-dimensional image of an actual scourged body (supposedly that of a Christian Knight crucified in Odessa) onto a piece of herringbone weave Jewish style burial cloth with three exposures (one for the front, one for the back, and a double exposure on the face... using his own face) and fixed the silver nitrate with urine: locking in the exposed image.

This "piss-picture" is easily reproducible and explains many of the problems with the Turin Shroud:
-the front image is 6% larger than the back image (different focal distances)
-the face is somewhat double exposed (Da Vinci added his own face)
-the cloth is chemically singed to produce the image (no paint)
-the image is three dimensional
-the blood on the cloth is bovine (cow blood) mixed with red ochre (to keep it red)
-there is no space between the front and back images (the cloth can't be wrapped over and under a body while maintaining the image alignments unless Jesus was two dimensional)

This "new" version of the Shroud displayed by the Lirey family is no longer considered a crude forgery like it's counterpart 70 years previous... suddenly everyone who sees it is astounded by it's miraculous image. This "new" Shroud was similarly washed and boiled without ever losing its image, this convinced the Medieval populace sufficiently that the Church had no choice but to ratify the Shroud as a genuine miraculous relic.


All of this is common knowledge among those in the know.

Some evidence:

-Da Vinci remained a favourite of the Lirey family for his entire life

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for heresy despite his hobby of dissecting human bodies

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for blasphemy despite him being an outspoken atheist

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for perversion despite his (somewhat) open homosexual lifestyle, yet they did prosecute Michelangelo

-the Church never prosecuted Da Vinci for harbouring his mother (Catherina) a Cathar heretic ("old believer")

-in his old age (80+) Da Vinci was taken in by the Lirey family

-Da Vinci died in the arms of the head of the Lirey family

-upon his death, Da Vinci's heir/apprentice/lover sold all of the masters codices (notebooks), the Lirey family paid way over the odds to procure ONLY the codex covering the time he worked for them before the newly miraculous 3D Shroud was made public

-this codex; now worth hundreds of millions has NEVER been seen again


Some modern evidence:

-among the many pollens discovered on the Shroud, olive tree pollen is conspicuously absent

-the Shroud's radiocarbon dating hasn't faltered: instead it is centering in more and more on Da Vinci's lifetime

-identical shrouds have been produced using a mannequin; camera obscura room; silver nitrate and urine... every Shroud believer should try this, it makes a great science project


But the most damning evidence of all?:
The Church has consistently ruled out any testing for the presence of silver... THEY KNOW it's a urine-fixed silver nitrate proto-photograph: Islamic manuscripts detailing the development of such technology by Muslim scientists during the Middle Ages (probably the same sources used by Da Vinci) are abundant in the Vatican archives.



So... it's a fake... but as a Da Vinci masterpiece, it's an absolutely priceless awe-inspiring fake.



The Luke (Knower of Secrets)

The Luke as usual, spewing nonsense with no references, sources, links or anything.  He just makes it up as he goes.

[The Luke]

The Luke as usual, spewing nonsense with no references, sources, links or anything.  He just makes it up as he goes.

...I don't post references because you delusional true-believers won't believe it till you do your own research.

Most of Christian/religious ignorance comes from their insistence on only ever reading ONE book.


Check out any of the things I posted... this is all common knowledge among competent researchers interested in such phenomena.

Find an error in anything I posted. Dismissal is just lazy self-assurance.



The Luke

[loco]

...I don't post references because you delusional true-believers won't believe it till you do your own research.

Most of Christian/religious ignorance comes from their insistence on only ever reading ONE book.


Check out any of the things I posted... this is all common knowledge among competent researchers interested in such phenomena.

Find an error in anything I posted. Dismissal is just lazy self-assurance.



The Luke

I won't believe you until you post your sources.

What skeptics say:

"The debate over the origin and authenticity of the shroud steadily increased over the years. Many scientific investigations were carried out to get to the heart of the matter. Moreover, many scientific papers were written on the subject relating to the different theories concerning the structural make-up and image on the shroud. Most scientists took one of three prominent views; they either believed that the shroud was a "divine" creation or that the image was man made or that it was a natural phenomenon. The Shroud of Turin was without a doubt a mystery that challenged faith, science and understanding, one that rekindled man's inquisitive nature in a search for an explanation."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/5.html

"Interestingly, Barbet also noticed that some of the blood stains flowed in unusual, almost unnatural directions on the arms. However, he realized that the stains were consistent with one's arms being outstretched and than lowered, much like someone's arms who had been crucified and then let down. If the blood flow was an artist's representation, it was masterfully conceived and skillfully carried out."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/6.html

"Amazingly, no one has yet been able to successfully explain how the unique 3-D negative-like image on the shroud was constructed. In actuality that remains the biggest mystery."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/9.html



"Rogers was further quoted in the article saying, "The chemistry says it was a real shroud, the blood spots on it are real blood, and the technology that was used to make that piece of cloth was exactly what Pliny the Elder reported fort his time." Pliny the Elder was an ancient Roman scientist and author who lived between 23 and 79 AD. Based on Rogers' research and historical data, the shroud has been accurately dated to around the time of Christ. The discovery rekindled the age-old debate of whether the shroud was or was not the actual burial cloth used to wrap Jesus' body. Chances are we will never know."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/10.html

[The Luke]

Stop getting your info from pro-shroud websites and pro-mystery sites...

Loco, please do a little research... I've been reading about the Turin Shroud for more than twenty years now. I'm right... trust me.

You can quote someone claiming that no one has ever demonstrated a method by which the Shroud could have been faked... but that doesn't change the fact that such a process has been demonstrated hundreds of times.


Let me give you an analogy...
Most people think the Giza pyramids are mysterious buildings that have never been explained. There is a huge cottage industry writing pyramid-mystery books (I've read most of them), and dozens of misguided archaeologists arguing various construction methods at symposia all over the world.

None of this changes the FACT that the Giza pyramids (like most Cyclopean architecture worldwide) are made of CONCRETE.

Simple, CONCRETE... end of discussion. Similarly, my post regarding the origins of the Turin Shroud should be end-of-thread material here.


The Luke

[loco]

Stop getting your info from pro-shroud websites and pro-mystery sites...

Loco, please do a little research... I've been reading about the Turin Shroud for more than twenty years now. I'm right... trust me.

You can quote someone claiming that no one has ever demonstrated a method by which the Shroud could have been faked... but that doesn't change the fact that such a process has been demonstrated hundreds of times.


Let me give you an analogy...
Most people think the Giza pyramids are mysterious buildings that have never been explained. There is a huge cottage industry writing pyramid-mystery books (I've read most of them), and dozens of misguided archaeologists arguing various construction methods at symposia all over the world.

None of this changes the FACT that the Giza pyramids (like most Cyclopean architecture worldwide) are made of CONCRETE.

Simple, CONCRETE... end of discussion. Similarly, my post regarding the origins of the Turin Shroud should be end-of-thread material here.


The Luke

Crimelibrary.com is not a pro-shroud website. 

[The Luke]

Crimelibrary.com is not a pro-shroud website. 

...then the author is simply misinformed.


The Luke