Author Topic: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death  (Read 16231 times)

Dos Equis

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Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« on: August 29, 2009, 11:15:56 AM »
"He filed a lawsuit in 2003 challenging the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. In 2007, the high court upheld the federal ban on the procedure, which generally was used to end pregnancies in the second and third trimester."  Sounds like a wonderful man.   ::)


Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death

Friday, August 28, 2009 5:55 PM

BELLEVUE, Neb. -- An anti-abortion group from Kansas is moving its fight north to Nebraska, preparing for a weekend demonstration and holding a workshop to plot its strategy for putting Dr. LeRoy Carhart out of business.

About 50 people, most holding signs in support of abortion rights, gathered Friday on the sidewalk outside Carhart's clinic in this Omaha suburb. A few local anti-abortion demonstrators also were on hand awaiting the arrival of Operation Rescue members who were traveling here from Wichita, Kan.

Many more demonstrators on both sides of the issue were expected at the clinic Saturday.

Carhart has become the central figure in the nation's abortion debate since Dr. George Tiller was gunned down May 31 in Wichita. Carhart, who was close friends with Tiller and performed abortions at his clinic, has said he hopes to open a Kansas facility to offer late-term abortions and other services Tiller provided.

Police who were prepared for a potentially raucous clash between protesters on Friday instead found a mostly quiet group gathered outside Carhart's clinic. Some carried signs, one of which included an image of a bloody fetus. Another sign read, "Dr. Carhart is our hero."

Carhart said he expected that Operation Rescue's demonstration on Saturday would be no different from previous ones held at his and Tiller's clinics over the years.

President Troy Newman said Operation Rescue's demonstration is secondary to the workshop he'll conduct. The workshop is designed to teach anti-abortion activists how to conduct investigations, file complaints and use the legal system to close the clinic.

Carhart called the group's methods "pure harassment."

He said he was scheduled to see about 15 patients Friday. Abortion rights proponents greeted patients with welcome signs and escorted them from the parking lot to the building entrance.

Carhart said he was touched by the show of support.

"This is a movement by the women of America, really," he said. "I can't say enough to thank them."

Terry O'Neill, president of the National Organization for Women, said the group would offer any help it can to keep the clinic open.

"Dr. Carhart's safety and the safety of his staff, clinic and patients must be our paramount concern," she said at a news conference in the clinic's waiting room.

Operation Rescue complained to Nebraska officials last week about possible unsafe conditions at Carhart's clinic. The attorney general's office said the concerns were forwarded to the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services, which licenses medical facilities.

HHS spokeswoman Marla Augustine said state law requires complaints against doctors and medical clinics to be kept confidential, so the only time an investigation would be confirmed is when action is taken.

Asked about the allegations of unsafe practices, Carhart, who has operated his Bellevue clinic since 1985, said: "OK. And I've been here how long?"

Carhart's clinic is located in Bellevue's business district, near a tree-lined street containing houses. Residents said they were wary of the demonstration.

Silvia Otterpohl, who has lived six houses down from the clinic for four years, was sweeping her front porch as she kept an eye on the protesters.

"I think it's going to be really bad tomorrow. I'm scared," she said.

Asked what she's worried about, she said, "a shooting or something."

Police cars carrying two officers cruised by frequently. A police captain said eight officers would be patrolling the neighborhood on Friday. On Saturday, eight officers would be on foot, backed up by others in cruisers, to handle the larger demonstrations expected.

Carhart twice has appeared before the U.S. Supreme Court to challenge bans on a procedure its opponents call partial-birth abortion. In 2000, the high court ruled for Carhart in striking down a Nebraska law because it lacked an exception to preserve a woman's health and encompassed a more common abortion method.

He filed a lawsuit in 2003 challenging the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. In 2007, the high court upheld the federal ban on the procedure, which generally was used to end pregnancies in the second and third trimester.

http://www.newsmax.com/us/us_abortion_protest/2009/08/28/253817.html

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 01:38:04 PM »
Whether a Doctor is pro-life or pro-choice...  Why would they go into the business of abortions? 

I don't understand, I mean why get involved.  Is there an interest in destroying fetuses or...?

They could become a Pediatrician or specialize in infectious disease etc... but why take on abortions full time?

 ???

 ???
S

Skip8282

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 01:49:11 PM »
I don't understand, I mean why get involved.  Is there an interest in destroying fetuses or...?


Maybe there's an interest in giving a woman the right to do with her body as she chooses?

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 04:34:40 PM »

Maybe there's an interest in giving a woman the right to do with her body as she chooses?

Or an interest in making money. 

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 05:10:12 PM »
According to CNN abortion supporters outnumber opponents 2 to 1
 
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/29/nebraska.abortion.protests/index.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 05:15:40 PM »
lol . . . Nearly 2 to 1.  That's approximately 100 to 50. 

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 05:19:20 PM »
lol . . . Nearly 2 to 1.  That's approximately 100 to 50. 

yeah, pretty pathetic that your side could only manage to get 50 people and they probably came from all over the country too.

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 10:57:57 AM »

Maybe there's an interest in giving a woman the right to do with her body as she chooses?
how about giving the man the right to choose what to do with his money for the following 18 yrs after the women made her own decision independent of the mans wants?

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 10:58:37 AM »
According to CNN abortion supporters outnumber opponents 2 to 1
 
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/29/nebraska.abortion.protests/index.html

and fox viewers out number msnbc viewers by multiple times but that doesnt mean anything right?

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 11:12:16 AM »
and fox viewers out number msnbc viewers by multiple times but that doesnt mean anything right?

in the context of this thread it's completely irrelevant

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 11:13:45 AM »
how about giving the man the right to choose what to do with his money for the following 18 yrs after the women made her own decision independent of the mans wants?

you always get hung up on that don't you

are you talking about the example of the women getting an abortion against the will of the man or having the kid?

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 01:05:33 PM »
you always get hung up on that don't you

are you talking about the example of the women getting an abortion against the will of the man or having the kid?
It's something everyone should get caught up on

Either way if one has a choice logically since both are resposible both should get a choice

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 01:07:11 PM »
It's something everyone should get caught up on

Either way if one has a choice logically since both are resposible both should get a choice

so you feel you should have control over someone else's body?



tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »
so you feel you should have control over someone else's body?



LOL i really hope that was a serious question as opposed to you trying to live up to your screen name...

try to stay with the facts and the premise, we give women the right to choose independent of the mans desire, yet we offer no option for the man independent of the womens desire.

both are equally responsible for the conception of the child what logical basis do you have for giving the women a choice but DENYING the man a choice?

Skip8282

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 01:25:30 PM »
both are equally responsible for the conception of the child what logical basis do you have for giving the women a choice but DENYING the man a choice?


Because it's the woman's body.  She may choose to do as she pleases.  Just as your free to do with your body as you choose.

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2009, 01:27:10 PM »
LOL i really hope that was a serious question as opposed to you trying to live up to your screen name...

try to stay with the facts and the premise, we give women the right to choose independent of the mans desire, yet we offer no option for the man independent of the womens desire.

both are equally responsible for the conception of the child what logical basis do you have for giving the women a choice but DENYING the man a choice?

so your answer is yes?

Deedee

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2009, 01:30:14 PM »
LOL i really hope that was a serious question as opposed to you trying to live up to your screen name...

try to stay with the facts and the premise, we give women the right to choose independent of the mans desire, yet we offer no option for the man independent of the womens desire.

both are equally responsible for the conception of the child what logical basis do you have for giving the women a choice but DENYING the man a choice?

For someone who claims to be such an individualist, you sure are okay with working taxpayers paying for all your stuff... healthcare, your kids...what else?

Once a kid is born, it's up to the parents to take financial responsibility for it, and it's the court's job to make sure that happens. Unless both agree to an adoption, the father has just as much rights to the kid as the mother does, and can sue for custody, in which case the mother pays her share of child support. If the mother doesn't want it from the beginning, the father gets full custody of the kid, and again, the mother is forced to pay child support even if she was okay with an adoption. What this issue has to do with abortion is anyone's guess, but it's apples and oranges for sure.

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2009, 01:33:31 PM »

Because it's the woman's body.  She may choose to do as she pleases.  Just as your free to do with your body as you choose.
thats only part of it thats fine have the man help pay for the medical bills then but as soon as the child is born it should be her responsibility if the man didnt want a child...you see?

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2009, 01:36:42 PM »
For someone who claims to be such an individualist, you sure are okay with working taxpayers paying for all your stuff... healthcare, your kids...what else?

Once a kid is born, it's up to the parents to take financial responsibility for it, and it's the court's job to make sure that happens. Unless both agree to an adoption, the father has just as much rights to the kid as the mother does, and can sue for custody, in which case the mother pays her share of child support. If the mother doesn't want it from the beginning, the father gets full custody of the kid, and again, the mother is forced to pay child support even if she was okay with an adoption. What this issue has to do with abortion is anyone's guess, but it's apples and oranges for sure.
LOL perhaps you should go take a entry level logic class in college b/c this debate is argued all over the country in college class rooms in regards to abortion...

Its not necissarily a question of abortion but of equal rights as it applies to abortion

The women has the option of walking away from the child with abortion independent of the mans desire, the man has no such option.

does that sound fair?

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2009, 01:37:48 PM »
For someone who claims to be such an individualist, you sure are okay with working taxpayers paying for all your stuff... healthcare, your kids...what else?
I have no idea what your personal beef is with me dee, but again you know nothing about me darling so pls try and refrain from making snap judgements.

Skip8282

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2009, 01:46:48 PM »
thats only part of it thats fine have the man help pay for the medical bills then but as soon as the child is born it should be her responsibility if the man didnt want a child...you see?

No, I don't see.  As a man, you know that's a risk you take.

You seem to be arguing that just because a man gives a part of himself to the woman, he gets a say over her body.  If that's the case, then a kidney donor or bone marrow donor would have say over the recipients and could tell them what they may or may not do with their body.

Deedee

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2009, 01:47:53 PM »
LOL perhaps you should go take a entry level logic class in college b/c this debate is argued all over the country in college class rooms in regards to abortion...

Its not necissarily a question of abortion but of equal rights as it applies to abortion

The women has the option of walking away from the child with abortion independent of the mans desire, the man has no such option.

does that sound fair?


I already graduated university, thanks.

Yes, it's perfectly fair. One a child is born, it's a human being with parents. Those parents are responsible for it and that's the way the law works. The way it is applied is fair.

What you're doing is akin to a little kid who cries because his older brother is allowed to stay up an hour later to watch tv. That's your logic.

Abortion is separate issue, with the woman bearing the entire burden, with potential risks to her health. Were the situation reversed, and you, as a man, were required to bear those health risks, you wouldn't even remotely be arguing this silly premise. And btw, many abortions are performed precisely BECAUSE the man doesn't want the responsibility, so what's the problem?

And I have no personal beef with you. No reason for me to cheerlead posts I agree with, is there? What I get from your posts is that you're against abortion, but you don't think men should bear any responsibility for children once they're born. Welcome to the 1950s.

tonymctones

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 01:50:34 PM »
No, I don't see.  As a man, you know that's a risk you take.

You seem to be arguing that just because a man gives a part of himself to the woman, he gets a say over her body.  If that's the case, then a kidney donor or bone marrow donor would have say over the recipients and could tell them what they may or may not do with their body.
NOT AT ALLLLLLLLLLL
Im not argueing against abortion although I am personally against it the point im making has nothing to do with a womens right to choose but everything with a mans right to choose.

Like I said this isnt about abortion other then it being the how the issue is being expressed this is about equal rights...

Straw Man

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 01:53:26 PM »
I already graduated university, thanks.

Yes, it's perfectly fair. One a child is born, it's a human being with parents. Those parents are responsible for it and that's the way the law works. The way it is applied is fair.

What you're doing is akin to a little kid who cries because his older brother is allowed to stay up an hour later to watch tv. That's your logic.

Abortion is separate issue, with the woman bearing the entire burden, with potential risks to her health. Were the situation reversed, and you, as a man, were required to bear those health risks, you wouldn't even remotely be arguing this silly premise. And btw, many abortions are performed precisely BECAUSE the man doesn't want the responsibility, so what's the problem?

And I have no personal beef with you. No reason for me to cheerlead posts I agree with, is there? What I get from your posts is that you're against abortion, but you don't think men should bear any responsibility for children once they're born. Welcome to the 1950s.


LOL

Deedee

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Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 01:53:54 PM »

Like I said this isnt about abortion other then it being the how the issue is being expressed this is about equal rights...

That's right. It isn't about abortion. It's a separate thread wherein you make the argument that no one should bear responsibility for a kid once it's born unless they care to.  Which essentially makes all children wards of the state.