Author Topic: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death  (Read 16234 times)

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #250 on: September 05, 2009, 06:42:44 PM »
the girl is pregnant and the guy is not
she is pregnant with HIS CHILD VOLUNTARILY so if she can walk away why cant he?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #251 on: September 05, 2009, 06:47:22 PM »
she is pregnant with HIS CHILD VOLUNTARILY so if she can walk away why cant he?

ok

this is your main beef

right?


tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #252 on: September 05, 2009, 06:59:12 PM »
ok

this is your main beef

right?


pretty much ya, there are other smaller things but thats the crux of it

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #253 on: September 05, 2009, 07:10:06 PM »
ok

this is your main beef

right?





It took you 11 goddamn pages to figure that out?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #254 on: September 05, 2009, 07:13:11 PM »


It took you 11 goddamn pages to figure that out?
hahahahahahahahahah best quote in getbig history LMAOROTFCOPTER hahahah

you see skip this is what i was talking about...

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #255 on: September 05, 2009, 07:20:46 PM »


It took you 11 goddamn pages to figure that out?

lets say the woman chooses to have the kid and would never consider having an abortion

does the man still get his right to walk away?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #256 on: September 05, 2009, 07:22:32 PM »
lets say the woman chooses to have the kid and would never consider having an abortion

does the man still get his right to walk away?
technically yes as the women still had the right to walk away, how would it be fair if only one person had the right to walk away?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #257 on: September 05, 2009, 07:26:09 PM »
technically yes as the women still had the right to walk away, how would it be fair if only one person had the right to walk away?

ok so you're saying they both have the one time choice of life and death / or it's equivalent (in your mind) financial obligation

is that correct?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #258 on: September 05, 2009, 07:34:34 PM »
ok so you're saying they both have the one time choice of life and death / or it's equivalent (in your mind) financial obligation

is that correct?
again your getting caught up in details...

first tell me that you agree that there is a inequality in laws as it applies to abortion and parental rights or this is just pointless

I have to assume that you do as you probably wouldnt even be entertaining the details if you disagree that there are inequalities.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #259 on: September 05, 2009, 07:37:50 PM »
again your getting caught up in details...

first tell me that you agree that there is a inequality in laws as it applies to abortion and parental rights or this is just pointless

I have to assume that you do as you probably wouldnt even be entertaining the details if you agree that there are inequalities.

ok

let's go with your perception of inequality

is it correct that you think that man and woman are both in an equal situation before and after impregnation

yes or no?


tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #260 on: September 05, 2009, 07:39:21 PM »
ok

let's go with your perception of inequality

is it correct that you think that man and woman are both in an equal situation before and after impregnation

yes or no?
FACEPALM!!!!!!!
Ive already said they are equivilant before and VOLUNTARILY inequivilant after

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #261 on: September 05, 2009, 07:44:28 PM »
FACEPALM!!!!!!!
Ive already said they are equivilant before and VOLUNTARILY inequivilant after

so you think being pregnant and having to make the decision of pregnancy or abortion in your own body is the same as not having that option

but it is equivalent to having to pay for a kid you don't want?

those two options are basically the exact same thing

right?


tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #262 on: September 05, 2009, 07:48:19 PM »
so you think being pregnant and having to make the decision of pregnancy or abortion in your own body is the same as not having that option

but it is equivalent to having to pay for a kid you don't want?

those two options are basically the exact same thing

right?
WHAT??????????

I read that a few times and that made absolutely no sense please rephrase that...

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #263 on: September 05, 2009, 07:50:17 PM »
WHAT??????????

I read that a few times and that made absolutely no sense please rephrase that...

you think man and woman are in an equal situation before and after conception

I don't agree

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #264 on: September 05, 2009, 07:53:45 PM »
you think man and woman are in an equal situation before and after conception

I don't agree
no i said
FACEPALM!!!!!!!
Ive already said they are equivilant before and VOLUNTARILY inequivilant after
MAN YOU GOTTA FUKING LEARN HOW TO READ...

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #265 on: September 05, 2009, 07:56:11 PM »
no i saidMAN YOU GOTTA FUKING LEARN HOW TO READ...

sorry

my bad

who has the greater burden?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #266 on: September 05, 2009, 07:57:57 PM »
sorry

my bad

who has the greater burden?
i have no idea, what does that matter?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #267 on: September 05, 2009, 07:59:34 PM »
i have no idea, what does that matter?

it matters because you claim there are inequalities in the law

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #268 on: September 05, 2009, 08:04:25 PM »
it matters because you claim there are inequalities in the law
first of all I dont claim there are...THERE ARE INEQUALITIES PLAIN AND SIMPLE....

If i had to pick on or the other I would say the man gets the shaft as he doesnt get a choice in the matter and 9 months gestation isnt equal to 18 yrs child support payments...

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #269 on: September 05, 2009, 08:08:25 PM »
first of all I dont claim there are...THERE ARE INEQUALITIES PLAIN AND SIMPLE....

If i had to pick on or the other I would say the man gets the shaft as he doesnt get a choice in the matter and 9 months gestation isnt equal to 18 yrs child support payments...

what does this statement mean

you don't think there are inequalities in the law?

I thought that was your main point

where are the inequalities then

I asked you two post ago and you said you don't know and why does it matter


tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #270 on: September 05, 2009, 08:10:36 PM »
what does this statement mean

you don't think there are inequalities in the law?

I thought that was your main point

where are the inequalities then

I asked you two post ago and you said you don't know and why does it matter
no that response was to who had the greater burden JACK ASS....

forget the statement and get on with it...

If i had to pick on or the other I would say the man gets the shaft as he doesnt get a choice in the matter and 9 months gestation isnt equal to 18 yrs child support payments...
response por favor...

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #271 on: September 05, 2009, 08:16:32 PM »
no that response was to who had the greater burden JACK ASS....

forget the statement and get on with it...
response por favor...

you believe the inequality is that she can walk away but he can't

correct?

the two concurrent situations (being pregnant and being the father) are the same only the woman has the advantage because she can "walk away" if she choose and the man doesn't get a "walk away" option

if I understand you correctly I think we're probably done

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #272 on: September 05, 2009, 08:33:59 PM »
you believe the inequality is that she can walk away but he can't

correct?

the two concurrent situations (being pregnant and being the father) are the same only the woman has the advantage because she can "walk away" if she choose and the man doesn't get a "walk away" option

if I understand you correctly I think we're probably done
I believe there is more then simply one inequality but only one person given a choice...

I would not call it an advantage as there are no winners in this situation as I see it, simply she has the RIGHT to walk away and he doesnt...

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63956
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death
« Reply #273 on: April 19, 2010, 12:00:10 PM »
Strict New Neb. Abortion Law Faces Long Legal Road
Sunday, 18 Apr 2010     


It's been called a groundbreaking law, but a measure approved in Nebraska last week that changes the rationale for abortion bans probably won't go into effect anytime soon — if ever.

Instead, abortion opponents are hoping it will become the most important case on abortion to reach the U.S. Supreme Court in recent memory. Even they acknowledge the ban on abortions at and after 20 weeks of pregnancy won't see the light of day unless the high court rules that it is constitutional.

Mary Spaulding Balch, legislative director for National Right to Life, said a court injunction will likely prevent the implementation of the law. The measure passed last week by Nebraska's nonpartisan Legislature and signed into law by Republican Gov. Dave Heineman is scheduled to take effect in October.

Lower courts have no precedent to support the law, which bases the new restrictions on the assertion that fetuses feel pain.

"This is a case of first impression," Spaulding Balch said.

The long trip to the high court — if it indeed lands there — combined with the time it takes for a ruling there could mean a final decision on the law is several years away.

First, a legal challenge must be posed. No one has stepped forward yet, but Dr. LeRoy Carhart, one of the nation's few late-term abortion providers, is considered a likely candidate. Carhart, who practices in an Omaha suburb and is the target of the new Nebraska law, was a plaintiff in two of the biggest abortion cases of the last decade that reached the U.S. Supreme Court.

Carhart said in a statement that the passage of the law and another that requires women to get pre-abortion screenings for mental and physical problems has strengthened his commitment to protecting women's reproductive rights.

The Center for Reproductive Rights, which has close ties to Carhart, hinted in a letter to Heineman urging him to veto the bills that it would be involved in a challenge of the ban on late-term abortions.

"This bill is clearly unconstitutional and is the most extreme abortion law passed in this country in recent memory," the letter states. It reminds Heineman that the center has litigated cases in Nebraska and across the United States in its fight for women's reproductive rights.

The 20-week ban is based on assertions from some doctors that fetuses feel pain by that stage of development. Critics say there is no firm evidence to support the claim, and that the law is an unconstitutional break from more than 35 years of court precedent that sets viability as the dividing line for abortion restrictions. Viability is the ability of a fetus to survive outside the womb. While determined on a case-by-case basis, viability is generally considered to be between 22 and 24 weeks of pregnancy.

Opponents of the law also say it is unconstitutional because it doesn't allow mental health issues to be used as reasons to have abortions at and after the 20-week mark.

Whether an injunction will be issued partially depends on whether a judge thinks there is a likelihood that the law won't withstand a legal challenge. Abortion rights advocates say that standard is clearly met.

The fetal pain law "blatantly violates" court precedent that abortions can't be banned before viability, so it is likely that an injunction will be issued, said Caitlin Borgmann, an abortion law expert and professor at The City University of New York.

"What the sponsors and supporters are really hoping for is a test case for Justice (Anthony) Kennedy," she said.

Kennedy, a moderate conservative considered a swing vote, is seen by abortion opponents as their best chance for tighter restrictions on the procedure. While abortion rights advocates say he has done nothing to suggest he would favor a pre-viability ban, opponents are hopeful because of his positions on two high-profile abortion cases over the past decade.

Both involve Carhart.

Abortion opponents' record with those cases in a federal court in Nebraska that is likely to consider the new law isn't good.

In 1997, U.S. District Court Judge Richard Kopf granted an injunction to keep from going into effect a Nebraska-approved ban on the procedure that critics call partial-birth abortion. Kopf later struck down the law, and the 8th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals upheld his decision. The U.S. Supreme Court, with Kennedy dissenting, upheld the 8th Circuit's decision.

In 2003, less than an hour after President Bush signed the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, Kopf issued an injunction preventing that law from taking effect. As in the late 1990s, Kopf struck down that law and the 8th Circuit upheld his decision.

But the Supreme Court, with Kennedy writing for the majority, overturned the decision and upheld the federal ban.

The injunctions in both cases "confirms the likelihood" that one will be issued against the latest Nebraska law, Borgmann said.

But the former Nebraska attorney general who was at the center of the 1997 case over the state ban thinks things could turn out differently this time around.

One standard judges consider when deciding whether to grant injunctions — whether lawsuits challenging laws are likely to win — may not be met, said Don Stenberg, who defended the state law in arguments before the Supreme Court. He argues that the test of whether abortion restrictions are legal is not fetus viability but whether abortion restrictions present undue burdens to women.

"The key test is whether ... this prohibition because of fetal pain at 20 weeks is an undue burden on what courts say is a woman's right to an abortion," Stenberg said. "I don't think it is."

Another standard used to determine if injunctions are issued is whether irreparable harm would be caused if an injunction wasn't issued. Stenberg said that because the current start of viability is around 22 weeks and the new Nebraska ban is at 20, the law is eliminating only a short period in which abortions can be performed.

"Does something happen between 20 and 22 to 24 weeks that causes irreparable harm?" he asked.

Jordan Goldberg of the Center for Reproductive Rights said the bill plays off the notion of fetal pain and a state's right to protect a fetus and "none of those reasons are sufficient to outweigh a woman's right to end a pregnancy."

——
http://newsmax.com/US/US-Nebraska-Abortion-Laws/2010/04/18/id/356069