Author Topic: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911  (Read 25035 times)

Skip8282

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2010, 01:35:53 PM »
But people like you call Bush a complete idiot?? So what is it? Is he an idiot, or did he perpetrate the bigeet coverup and conspiracy of our time?? I think the person who is the idiot are the CT's. Oh yeah, I got a call from Elvis yesterday... he's hanging with Jimmy Morrison and they want to start a dead celeb union with the help of Jimmy Hoffa...  ::)



I don't believe I've ever called Bush a complete idiot even though I wasn't fond of his presidency.  And I'm arguing against the CT, not for.  Might want to reread my post.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2010, 01:43:35 PM »


I don't believe I've ever called Bush a complete idiot even though I wasn't fond of his presidency.  And I'm arguing against the CT, not for.  Might want to reread my post.
My bad. I misread your post. Too many of these CT's on this to dice them up.

Skip8282

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2010, 02:16:46 PM »
My bad. I misread your post. Too many of these CT's on this to dice them up.

No prob, the CT'rs will just change their stories - I mean unanswered questions that they pose as facts - tomorrow.

Dos Equis

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2010, 02:31:02 PM »
Did you ever see this post by Ozmo?

Quote
I'm just asking for concrete posts,  good stuff. 

But hey, if its too much for you never mind then.  Refer to this:



10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.
 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2010, 02:35:14 PM »
Notice how the thread starter dont dare argue with us on this? 

quadzilla456

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2010, 02:39:56 PM »
This shows me where your ignrance comes from as you know nothing about structural engineering, or anything of the technical field whatsoever. Thus, explains why this nonsense has lived for 10 years in the feeble minds of the ct'rs.

Bullshit. If you know so much about structural engineering then explain why an object the size of the plane would leave a hole much smaller than itself with the surrounding wall smooth and showing little signs of impact? I am amazed at how fucking stupid you'd have to be to believe it. You claim to be a "structural expert"?? How's that? What's your background?

Again explain it. If you give a plausible explanation and convince me please do.

In the case of the WTC we see a plane cut into the building like a knife through butter. It is cutting through steel columns. Now in the Pentagon example it just bounces of the building and the nose leaves a car-sized hole? There is no way in hell that a plane would not have made a huge opening in the wall equal to or greater than it's footprint when travelling at 500 mph.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2010, 02:45:40 PM »
Did you watch the liveleak video? 

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2010, 02:47:52 PM »
The govt screwed up wars, katrina, the oil spill, the borders, the xmas day hijackers, the times square bomber, etc etc.

Yet, they brilliantly somehow pulled this off without any trace whatsoever?   ::)  ::)

Here is another gem that 240 refuses to acknowledge: 

KSM has admitted to being the mastermind behind this.  What better way to add insult to injury and bring down the US govt than to prove himself that the US Govt did it?  Surely, if he or his attorneys believed that they would profess their innocence, demand discovery and prove the govt did it in court. 


When you are the one controlling the investigation then the outcome would pretty obviously be in your favor. The fact that millions of people are questioning the government's involvement hardly points to a successfull deception in my mind. Nobody is receiving any financial gain by questioning government involvement. It is done in a quest for truth.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2010, 02:52:27 PM »
I'm just trying to relate real world shit to the claimed CT's.  To me the controlled demolition theory ignores the reality of what it takes to actually rig two building like that up under the watchful eye of workers, janitores, security, CCTV etc and no one saw anything?  No one said anything? 

The incompetent boobs in govt cant even keep track of the times square guy they had under their eye yet they are going pull off something so secretiv as this? 

For fucks sake, we cant even contain an oil spill, evactuate people ahead of a hurricane, etc.

I guess its all how you approach things.   

quadzilla456

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2010, 02:56:12 PM »
Regarding the 'pull it' video, it's been acknowledged that the sound byte is taken out of context.  I.E. what the whole discussion was about.  Pull it refers to firefighters being pulled out of an unsurvivable building, the it is the fire fighting team.  Gosh these people have such stupid evidence.  Like the guys explained most of the CT comes from directly after when people don't know sh*t, don't know what they saw, heard etc.  Oh one guy said it was a bomb but thousands say it was a plane, well lets believe the one guy  ::)

First of all where were the massive flames in WTC 7? The Mandarin Hotel in Beijing had much more sever fire damage and it never even collapsed.



No building in history has collapsed naturally at the speed of gravity because of fire damage. Do you understand the concept? For the building to collapse at the speed of gravity all the columns at the base had to completely crumble at once. It would have collapsed in stages otherwise.

Silverstein's words of "pull it" means exactly that. They accelerated the collapse by physically bringing it down. Apparently explosive residue was found at ground zero.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

quadzilla456

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2010, 03:00:19 PM »
To those that say Bush was too much of an idiot to plan 911. Who even says he planned it??!! After all we know leaders are puppets. He would be complacent but definately not the mastermind. Please give me a break we all know he was / is a moron.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2010, 03:06:50 PM »
The video wont if it captures stills and not rolling video. With a plane flyingat that speed it is highly possible to miss the image. However, there were many eyewitnessess on the highways that saw the plan flying towards the Pentagon. Are they lying?? Seeing a UFO?? a MISSLE WITH WINGS??

Yeah right it was a plane. The video is convincing proof. Even you admit you can't make out a plane because it is highly possible to miss the image. How many eyewitnesses were there? Please post videos of interviews. If you can find 10 I would not be impressed since 10 actors are not hard to find.




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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2010, 03:09:54 PM »
hahahah at the very least, we did shoot down that plane.  The scene was 8 miles wide for a plane that nosedived?

haha even MICHELLE MALKIN wrote an article saying the penn crash site was BS, that it was probably shot down.

Then you have Rummy admitting it on video there...


At the VERY least, that part is a big lie.

kcballer

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2010, 03:35:05 PM »
 ::)  if you're a 9/11 cter i have a bridge to sell you. 

p.s. it's for you to jump off. 
Abandon every hope...

Fury

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »
"I change my theory every time my current one gets refuted. Why won't you guys believe me? You're all fucking sheep. I have google, I read that shady website. I'm in the know, damnit! RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEE"  ::)

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2010, 07:54:31 AM »
Bullshit. If you know so much about structural engineering then explain why an object the size of the plane would leave a hole much smaller than itself with the surrounding wall smooth and showing little signs of impact? I am amazed at how fucking stupid you'd have to be to believe it. You claim to be a "structural expert"?? How's that? What's your background?

Again explain it. If you give a plausible explanation and convince me please do.

In the case of the WTC we see a plane cut into the building like a knife through butter. It is cutting through steel columns. Now in the Pentagon example it just bounces of the building and the nose leaves a car-sized hole? There is no way in hell that a plane would not have made a huge opening in the wall equal to or greater than it's footprint when travelling at 500 mph.
First, a little about myself... I have a mechanical engineering degree from one of the better science colleges on the east coast. I have a minor in industrial engineering, with a focus on structrual design. I work for a garment manufacturer in midtown Manhattan designing floor plans and head the facilities and security group. I'm also 39, like long walks on the beach, cooking with my wife.,.. etc.. hahaha.   ;D
Answer your QUESTION IS Easy. Density. Concrete is some 12 feet thick in places in the pentagon, reinforced by rebar and I believe a layer of either lead or steel plating TO SHIELD high level gov't people in the event of a nuclear attack. You may not know that fact because it is not exactly broadcast out there. As I stated before my father in law worked there in the 60s. It is layered as one solid object in simple terms. This building was constructed during the cold war.
The WTC was a hollow steel structure designed to act like two cylinders, One inside othe other. This was because they wanted an open floor concept; no interior columns. This design, one that was very strong, put the steel columns on the outside of the structure, with the center "tube" housing the stairways and elevator shafts. Sort of like a celery stalk. Anyone (like me) who has had to design floor plans for offices and distribution centers (in Long Island City Queens for example) :D ), within existing structures know the inherent obstructions interior columns pose. Now, the first mistake you are making is assuming the two buildings are the same, or function the same. I know this by your statement above: "is no way in hell that a plane would not have made a huge opening in the wall equal to or greater than it's footprint when travelling at 500 mph." You are taking this as if they are both the same building. in terms of structure, freedom of movement, and design requirements. The Pentagon was designed as the military nerve center for the USA so it will have inherent design characteristics for security. The WTC was designed as a state of the art office tower and not designed to fend off an attack. Although they did design it to withstand a direct hit from a 707. But your comparo is apples to oranges.
Getting to the small hole... The plane generally hit nose-cone first. This would be considered a point load. Thus, the impact from the plane was at its most severe at the center of the impact. This was at the greatest point of absorbson; Fo = mass x velocity. The wings, ralative to their density v. the concrete structure basically bounced off, and disintegrated due to the velociity is impacted the concrete. This building is just simply designed to take a direct hit. The WTC, although designed to take a direct hit from a much smaller aircraft at lower speeds, did a great job at holding up so some 20k people could get out. Then the fire took over, weakening columns, and collapsed top down. I know it may be too difficult to understand by someone like you who already made up their minds regardless of any facts that discredit yours.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #116 on: May 07, 2010, 08:00:38 AM »
Yeah right it was a plane. The video is convincing proof. Even you admit you can't make out a plane because it is highly possible to miss the image. How many eyewitnesses were there? Please post videos of interviews. If you can find 10 I would not be impressed since 10 actors are not hard to find.




This is just exhausting.
Guy... When you have a video that films either on motion sensor, or clip-by-clip as it shows in all of your video "evidence" posted, the velocity of the plane could easily have been too fast for the video to capture it. Anyone who works in this industry can tell you you can have lost footage if the object is either too fast, or the settings on the DVR recorder was too long between clips.
Again, the 200 or so people on the plane... where did they go??

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2010, 08:03:12 AM »
First of all where were the massive flames in WTC 7? The Mandarin Hotel in Beijing had much more sever fire damage and it never even collapsed.



No building in history has collapsed naturally at the speed of gravity because of fire damage. Do you understand the concept? For the building to collapse at the speed of gravity all the columns at the base had to completely crumble at once. It would have collapsed in stages otherwise.

Silverstein's words of "pull it" means exactly that. They accelerated the collapse by physically bringing it down. Apparently explosive residue was found at ground zero.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html
This is the most idiotic statement I have ever read in my mife from someone who probably sits in his underwear in front of the computer yanking on his pecker to these vids. Guy, you have no expertise to even come close to anyting you are saying in this thread. Go do your homework please.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #118 on: May 07, 2010, 08:04:10 AM »
To those that say Bush was too much of an idiot to plan 911. Who even says he planned it??!! After all we know leaders are puppets. He would be complacent but definately not the mastermind. Please give me a break we all know he was / is a moron.
Man, you get stranger by the minute...

kcballer

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #119 on: May 07, 2010, 09:03:40 AM »
hahaha severe ownage fu*k off 9/11 ct trolls.  run along now.
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #120 on: May 07, 2010, 09:07:01 AM »
The liveleak video is pretty devastating.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #121 on: May 07, 2010, 09:23:20 AM »
The liveleak video is pretty devastating.
Yeah. But the true problem is the ct'rs are soo enthrawled in their beliefs they can not, or will not discuss the REMOTE possibility they could be wrong. I don't understand it, you don't either. They (at least most) don't have a financial stake in it unless you have a book to sell.. It's sort of like the Global Warming nuts who insist we are the cause for the global changes irregardless of the book cooking.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #122 on: May 07, 2010, 09:27:45 AM »
No prob, the CT'rs will just change their stories - I mean unanswered questions that they pose as facts - tomorrow.
Yeah, and what is interesting is what someone wrote on here about Silverstein and that they know EXACTLY what he meant about when he said "pull it". Meanwhile he was interviewed explaining he meant that to "pull it" was to pull all the rescuers out.... But that doesn't matter to your CT'r

quadzilla456

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #123 on: May 07, 2010, 09:44:50 AM »

Answer your QUESTION IS Easy. Density. Concrete is some 12 feet thick in places in the pentagon, reinforced by rebar and I believe a layer of either lead or steel plating TO SHIELD high level gov't people in the event of a nuclear attack.  

The exterior wall where the impact occurred was not 12 feet thick. That is a bullshit statement. Perhaps in the vaults they are that thick but not the exterior skin that has windows. We are talking about the exterior wall.

Second I have a degree in Architecture and have worked in the field for over 10 years. The steel columns in WTC were not hollow like extruded aluminum sections. They were massive solid steel columns. The plane wings supposedly cut through those steel columns like a knife through butter.

Yet at the Pentagon the glass in the windows around the small hole were not even shattered. How the fuck is that possible? The plane has wings that would surely have destroyed at least the windows.

You are a moron for even fighting this. Give up.

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Re: Real Pilots Speak Out on 911
« Reply #124 on: May 07, 2010, 09:45:59 AM »
this argument is pointless, really.