Author Topic: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances  (Read 9237 times)

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #125 on: June 03, 2010, 10:18:37 AM »
you do get a choice

you get the same choice she does

you get to decide what to do with your own body

I thought we already covered that
LMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...

youre going in circles straw....heres a clue when the majority of others disagrees with you they may have a point you should look at  ;)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #126 on: June 03, 2010, 10:24:38 AM »
LMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...

youre going in circles straw....heres a clue when the majority of others disagrees with you they may have a point you should look at  ;)

Good luck w that Tony.  You are talking to someone who thinks the post office is solvent, the paying for condoms was a good use of stimulus bill money, and that obamacare is fiscally responsible.   

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #127 on: June 03, 2010, 10:32:20 AM »
LMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...

youre going in circles straw....heres a clue when the majority of others disagrees with you they may have a point you should look at  ;)

wow - so much nonsense on a few sentences

majority of others?  what are you even talking about ?

how does the woman control the mans body?


Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #128 on: June 03, 2010, 10:39:22 AM »
Tony - what's your personal view on abortion

I assume since you think men should never be required to be responsible for their children that you fully supportive of abortion


tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #129 on: June 03, 2010, 10:46:11 AM »
wow - so much nonsense on a few sentences

majority of others?  what are you even talking about ?

how does the woman control the mans body?
part of his paycheck is determined on whether she has the child or not isnt it? does the woman pay money to the man for having an abortion?

you said they both have control over their own bodies well then they should both take responsibility for those choices since the man doesnt have a choice then he shouldnt be held responsible...

I think women should have a choice but that they and they alone should bear the responsibility of that choice either that or you give the man a choice as well...

dude there are so many inequalities here that its not even funny the fact that you refuse to acknowledge one is just assinine...

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #130 on: June 03, 2010, 10:50:19 AM »
part of his paycheck is determined on whether she has the child or not isnt it? does the woman pay money to the man for having an abortion?

you said they both have control over their own bodies well then they should both take responsibility for those choices since the man doesnt have a choice then he shouldnt be held responsible...

I think women should have a choice but that they and they alone should bear the responsibility of that choice either that or you give the man a choice as well...

dude there are so many inequalities here that its not even funny the fact that you refuse to acknowledge one is just assinine...

I asked you to list the inequalities before and you didn't do it

I assume you're aware of the equalities for woman too right?

Are you Pro Choice.........Yes or No

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #131 on: June 03, 2010, 10:55:00 AM »
I asked you to list the inequalities before and you didn't do it

I assume you're aware of the equalities for woman too right?

Are you Pro Choice.........Yes or No

did you mean to type inequalities for women?

and socially pro choice, personally pro life...

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #132 on: June 03, 2010, 11:02:14 AM »
did you mean to type inequalities for women?

and socially pro choice, personally pro life...

yes - I meant to type inequalities for woman

so you're personally pro-life and I assume you would never want a woman to have an abortion correct and can we also assume you would support any child of your regardless of whether you wanted it or not

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #133 on: June 03, 2010, 11:12:52 AM »
yes - I meant to type inequalities for woman

so you're personally pro-life and I assume you would never want a woman to have an abortion correct and can we also assume you would support any child of your regardless of whether you wanted it or not
I would never want a woman carrying my child to have an abortion unless it put her life at risk...i wouldnt try to tell someone else how to live their life...

the only child I would have would be one that I wanted as again pregnancy is 99.99% preventable...

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #134 on: June 03, 2010, 11:16:40 AM »
I would never want a woman carrying my child to have an abortion unless it put her life at risk...i wouldnt try to tell someone else how to live their life...

the only child I would have would be one that I wanted as again pregnancy is 99.99% preventable...

if pregnancy is preventable then why don't you want to make both man and woman responsible for their own actions.

With your plan any man could go out and knock up a 100 woman and not be financially resonsible for any of those children

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #135 on: June 03, 2010, 11:30:36 AM »
if pregnancy is preventable then why don't you want to make both man and woman responsible for their own actions.

With your plan any man could go out and knock up a 100 woman and not be financially resonsible for any of those children
I agree that both men and women should be responsible for their actions but you see as of right now the women has the opportunity to shirk hers so the opportunity should also be given to the man to even out the INEQUALITY...

true but in your plan any woman could go get knocked up by 100 men and not be financially responsible as well...why the double standard?

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #136 on: June 03, 2010, 11:39:12 AM »
I agree that both men and women should be responsible for their actions but you see as of right now the women has the opportunity to shirk hers so the opportunity should also be given to the man to even out the INEQUALITY...
true but in your plan any woman could go get knocked up by 100 men and not be financially responsible as well...why the double standard?

again - you keep bringing that so called inequality as the reason why you believe man should get to walk away but when I asked you said "NO"

you can't have it both ways

It makes no sense


so in your mind the "walk away" option is predicated upon the man having no say over whether the woman choose to have the baby or have an abortion

correct?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

it also makes no senses that you say that pregnancy is 99.99% preventable yet don't want to hold the man respnosible for a result which he is fully capable of preventing

Don't you think a society has a right to require both Mother and Father to support their own children regardless of whether they wanted the kid or not?


Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #137 on: June 03, 2010, 11:44:41 AM »
Tony  

Let take this simple scenario

man and woman have sex and woman get's pregnant

Ignore for now whether either one wants the kid or not (we'll address that later)

At this point are they equal or does one party have an "unfair" advantage over the other?

In your mind "life" must be made fair but first we need to know all the "unfairness" so list all the inequities and how each one should be offset to make the whole deal "fair" for everyone

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #138 on: June 03, 2010, 12:09:24 PM »
again - you keep bringing that so called inequality as the reason why you believe man should get to walk away but when I asked you said "NO"

you can't have it both ways

It makes no sense

it also makes no senses that you say that pregnancy is 99.99% preventable yet don't want to hold the man respnosible for a result which he is fully capable of preventing

Don't you think a society has a right to require both Mother and Father to support their own children regardless of whether they wanted the kid or not?
The inequality is that the woman has a choice and the man doesnt...thats why he should be given a choice so it will be equal...The NOOOOOOO part is in reference to your continually falsel accusation that I think the way I do b/c a man should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body

if you want to hold the man accountable for something that is 99.99% preventable like you do, why do you feel its acceptable to let the woman shirk her responsibility?

youre missing the point the law should be equal to men and women

right now women have the right to walk away but men do not, wouldnt you agree?

tonymctones

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #139 on: June 03, 2010, 12:12:44 PM »
Tony  

Let take this simple scenario

man and woman have sex and woman get's pregnant

Ignore for now whether either one wants the kid or not (we'll address that later)

At this point are they equal or does one party have an "unfair" advantage over the other?

In your mind "life" must be made fair but first we need to know all the "unfairness" so list all the inequities and how each one should be offset to make the whole deal "fair" for everyone
lets concentrate on the main one, not under our laws its not fair b/c both had presumably consentual sex yet only one is given the choice of walking away...the result of that baby was an choice that was given to both equally, now the option to walk away from that pregnancy is now reserved to one person...so now you have a person with 2 choices and a person with 1...there is an inequality there 2 choices to 1 choice.

Straw Man

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Re: Pro-life 'personhood' effort advances
« Reply #140 on: June 04, 2010, 11:11:16 AM »
The inequality is that the woman has a choice and the man doesnt...thats why he should be given a choice so it will be equal...The NOOOOOOO part is in reference to your continually falsel accusation that I think the way I do b/c a man should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body

if you want to hold the man accountable for something that is 99.99% preventable like you do, why do you feel its acceptable to let the woman shirk her responsibility?

youre missing the point the law should be equal to men and women

right now women have the right to walk away but men do not, wouldnt you agree?

no I don't agree

It's not like she can "walk away" and the man is still stuck

If you want to call the choice of abortion "walking away" then to be precise she has the right to make the choice for both of them to walk away at that point.  Thats the only differnce

the woman has the sole right to make the choice about whether to abort becaue its her body and she's the one who has the burden of the pregnancy and birth.  

If she chooses to have the child then they are both required to be responsible.

Again, the woman gets to make the choice about the pregnancy because it's her body that's at risk.  She's the one who has to do ALL the work during pregnancy and is even risking death.  Those extra burdens are why she has the choice about abortion.

Since you're all about making things fair maybe you can offer some ideas on how the man can even out the burderns to the woman for preganancy.  Isn't it unfair that only she has to deal with the extreme changes to her body, discomfort, the pain of child birth, the actual potential for death (what is the % of fathers that die during child birth).  

Aside from all those arguments, you've said that pregnancy is 99.99% preventable so why should we as a society not require both adults to be accountable for their decisions.