Will the cause of homosexuality ever be figured out?

[che]

All I'm sayin is.........have you seen A Clockwork Orange?

No , what's that about ?

[Chick]

That's my point, you're saying homos are genetically wired that way, why can't the same be said for the other I listed? Because you don't approve of those actions? Your argument here is weak.

It cant be the same for the simple fact that, while there might be people that are "rotten" by nature, were talking about a sexual orientation, a physical attraction to males or females (or both)...just as you got your first boner when looking at your dads playboy stash, but felt nothing the first time you saw another guys johnson.

This really isnt that difficult to figure out...

[tonymctones]

It cant be the same for the simple fact that, while there might be people that are "rotten" by nature, were talking about a sexual orientation, a physical attraction to males or females (or both)...just as you got your first boner when looking at your dads playboy stash, but felt nothing the first time you saw another guys johnson.

This really isnt that difficult to figure out...

actually it is the same...

just to let you guys know it is thought by the majority of psychologist to be a combination of the two nature and nurture...

and in the same way a person may be more apt to be more aggressive or violent is the same way a person may be more aprt to be attracted to males than females....

but its society which is the nurture that grants them the ability to do so, we curb violence b/c it is deemed bad...notice how there are alot more gays than 50 yrs ago?

the nurture part has played a role in that...

[BIG ACH]

I'm liking Bob's argument...  but I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for a second to give another perspective and say, since the second you are born you are exposed to Male-Female relationships, your parents, your aunts and uncles, your friends' parents, your cousins, etc etc, everyone around you is living a "straight" lifestyle, so you just follow suit and do like everyone you see, you chase girls, date girls, try to kiss girls, etc etc....  So if we use that argument we still haven't answered that question what causes homosexuality?  Did gay people experience something else during their childhood?


Whatever, I personally believe you're born with it, just like straight people are born straight, just wanted to give another point of view!

[Chick]

I'm liking Bob's argument...  but I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for a second to give another perspective and say, since the second you are born you are exposed to Male-Female relationships, your parents, your aunts and uncles, your friends' parents, your cousins, etc etc, everyone around you is living a "straight" lifestyle, so you just follow suit and do like everyone you see, you chase girls, date girls, try to kiss girls, etc etc....  So if we use that argument we still haven't answered that question what causes homosexuality?  Did gay people experience something else during their childhood?


Whatever, I personally believe you're born with it, just like straight people are born straight, just wanted to give another point of view!

Exactly right...from day one, we are exposed to a hetero way of life. From the clothes we are put in, to the choice of toys we play with, to seeing mom and dad living together, etc....

[JOHN MATRIX]

So are murderers, rapists, pedos, drug addict, thieves, etc all biologically predetermined, or is it just homosexuality?

thats a completely different thing than sexual attraction which is a basic innate function of every species...well for Pedos its the same thing as homos- its biological, their wiring did not develop along normal lines. im sure they did not 'decide' to be attracted to pre-pubescent people it just happened that way, just like you never 'decided' that you were going to like girls.

as far as the other assholes you listed, its both. drug addicts have basic biological chemistries/genetics that make them predispositioned to be more 'affected' by whatever drug, for example some people never get in to drinking, some drink tons but never 'crave' it, some have one drink and its triggers something far greater in their minds, and they crave the feeling constantly. environment plays a huge role in this as well obviously...someone exposed to drugs early on, and frequently, may get used to them as far as a lifestyle, but could just as easily stop doing them completely when in a better situation (because they have the 'normal' biology), whereas some kid who was sheltered all along can try a drink when hes 25 then suddenly finding himself craving it constantly (because his biology reacted to the drug more strongly than 'normal', due to his basic genetic predispositions.

just like murderers. murderers show up in all environments from the worst slums to the richest upbringings, so obviously there is something more that just environmental factors causing them to feel compelled to go out and kill people.

[JOHN MATRIX]

but its society which is the nurture that grants them the ability to do so, we curb violence b/c it is deemed bad...notice how there are alot more gays than 50 yrs ago?

the nurture part has played a role in that...

no thats complete bs. i dont think there are 'more' homos now, its just that now its Completely accepted and in the mainstream so you see them all open about it...whereas in the past when it was condemned by society, all the homos had to live in fear and secrecy. they have always been around, its just that nowdays its ok for them all to be out in the open.

and as far as the 'nurture' crap...what about the days of the greeks and romans? those kids all grew up in a relatively harsh, 'manly' environments...as far as possibly from the metrosexual, soft, pampered society we have now... yet it is well known that homosexuality was widespread and largely accepted as a normal thing in those civilizations.

[CC973]

It doesn't matter...because it was never a decision you consciencely made....just as you had a natural attraction to females, the homosexual has a natural attraction to males

Your religion blinds you from common sense

The ultimate irony, is that for the same reasoning you believe homosexuals to "turn around" to their sexual attraction....you believe what you do as a LEARNED process, not a natural one...

Saying that homosexuality is a natural attraction means that the behavior would be acceptable to God.  Wether you agree with that or not, you do know what the scripture has to say about homosexuality, its not natural and not acceptable.

[tonymctones]

no thats complete bs. i dont think there are 'more' homos now, its just that now its Completely accepted and in the mainstream so you see them all open about it...whereas in the past when it was condemned by society, all the homos had to live in fear and secrecy. they have always been around, its just that nowdays its ok for them all to be out in the open.

and as far as the 'nurture' crap...what about the days of the greeks and romans? those kids all grew up in a relatively harsh, 'manly' environments...as far as possibly from the metrosexual, soft, pampered society we have now... yet it is well known that homosexuality was widespread and largely accepted as a normal thing in those civilizations.

LOL youre just making the case bro...whether it is that there were less homos or whether it is the case that less indulged in the behavior...the CULTURE which is NURTURE played a role in their behavior...meaning that it is a combination of both nature and nurture...if this wasnt the case you wouldnt have ppl who are gay one day, straight the next and bi sexual the day after b/c according to thos who think its simply nature they just know which isnt the case...

again youre missing the culture of the greeks and romans that was accepting of that behavior, look at islamic societies and see how prevelant homosexuality is in those...so nurture has a place in this debate...

you think that just by chance more ppl in california are gentically prone to being gay than other states? LOL noooooo its b/c the culture in that state is more accepting allowing them to indulge in that behavior

[chaos]

thats a completely different thing than sexual attraction which is a basic innate function of every species...well for Pedos its the same thing as homos- its biological, their wiring did not develop along normal lines. im sure they did not 'decide' to be attracted to pre-pubescent people it just happened that way, just like you never 'decided' that you were going to like girls.

as far as the other assholes you listed, its both. drug addicts have basic biological chemistries/genetics that make them predispositioned to be more 'affected' by whatever drug, for example some people never get in to drinking, some drink tons but never 'crave' it, some have one drink and its triggers something far greater in their minds, and they crave the feeling constantly. environment plays a huge role in this as well obviously...someone exposed to drugs early on, and frequently, may get used to them as far as a lifestyle, but could just as easily stop doing them completely when in a better situation (because they have the 'normal' biology), whereas some kid who was sheltered all along can try a drink when hes 25 then suddenly finding himself craving it constantly (because his biology reacted to the drug more strongly than 'normal', due to his basic genetic predispositions.

just like murderers. murderers show up in all environments from the worst slums to the richest upbringings, so obviously there is something more that just environmental factors causing them to feel compelled to go out and kill people.

All I'm saying is that gays use the "I was born this way" excuse to push for legality of marriage and special "protective" rights...........why can't criminals use the same excuse?

[noworries]

Exactly...you "didnt know why"....as it was your natural instinct. JUst as homosexuals dont know why and are attracted to who they are by the same instinct....

Not in Goodrums case.  His is rare.  Not one female ever wanted to be with him.   He tried everything he could with no luck.  he then tried bestiality and found it very easy (he had a submissive Labrador) but he wanted more.  He enjoyed licking the little pink thing that out of his dog but felt like he was being used.  Then came Vissy.  A pale white (almost clear) person with only one goal in life.  TO be with a dark guy who was dumber and worse built than he was.  And as the saying goes "it was love at first sight".

[tonymctones]

All I'm saying is that gays use the "I was born this way" excuse to push for legality of marriage and special "protective" rights...........why can't criminals use the same excuse?

LOL youre using way to much logic for the average getbigger...

[chaos]

No , what's that about ?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/

[kiwiol]

All I'm saying is that gays use the "I was born this way" excuse to push for legality of marriage and special "protective" rights...........why can't criminals use the same excuse?

Because criminals commit (a) crime(s) that negatively affects the victim(s), whose consent they go against in performing whatever act of crime they commit. Gay people choose to be with each other through mutual and voluntary consent.

My view of the issue is that there are a certain number of individuals who are born innately gay, others who are bisexual by inclination and the majority, who are heterosexual. There are cases which are in the grey zone - they may or may not become gay depending on things like social factors and whether they take it up (pardon the pun) as an acquired taste or not, for whatever reason (because it's cool or they like the person for their own reasons or whatever).

Being a mommy's boy who was raised by a dominant mother won't turn a straight guy into a homo, but it will push the ones in the grey zone, although not necessarily in every single case.

[SgtSpar]

If being gay was biological, it would cease to exist at some point, since gays cannot breed and pass along the gene that causes it.  Even if some gays were willing to sleep with the opposite sex just to become pregnant, a substantial percentage of them would not be willing to, and the numbers would decrease until gays no longer existed.

I think the reason for later life homosexuality is taking on an occupation generally accepted as being for the opposite sex, for instance, a "man" becoming a nurse.  Then again, the reverse could be true, and the cause and effect just the opposite.

[JOHN MATRIX]

sure there will always be the 'confused' individuals, who often have other mental issues, who go all different ways in their lives..but this tiny minority doesnt negate the vast majority of actual homos who are gay from day one and remain so their whole lives.

what do you mental midgets make of two brothers in the same family, raised not only in similar environments/cultures but the EXACT SAME one, same family, same parents, same neighborhood, exposed to the same media, and one is gay and the other is not?

and yes, Pedos and lots of murderers simply ARE 'just made that way'. the difference is that they KILL PEOPLE  and society obviously cant allow or excuse that just because its the way they are...because they affect other, unconsenting individuals in negative ways. homos on the other hand are 'condoned' by society because they do not hurt or negatively affect others in society who are not like them. its not that hard to understand.

[tonymctones]

Because criminals commit (a) crime(s) that negatively affects the victim(s), whose consent they go against in performing whatever act of crime they commit. Gay people choose to be with each other through mutual and voluntary consent.

the point is that to some extent their behavior is beyond their control just like homosexuality. I agree with your reasoning but if by some ppl's logic gays should be given special treatment b/c of this why are others with similar conditions not?

[chaos]

Because criminals commit (a) crime(s) that negatively affects the victim(s), whose consent they go against in performing whatever act of crime they commit. Gay people choose to be with each other through mutual and voluntary consent.

It's not about free will, it's about born that way or not.
If someone is born with a violent (or any of the others I've mentioned) predisposition, should society be forced to accept it because they were born that way?

And I'm not arguing whether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, I'm talking about the excuse they use in an attempt to receive special privileges/rights/protection.

[JOHN MATRIX]

Because criminals commit (a) crime(s) that negatively affects the victim(s), whose consent they go against in performing whatever act of crime they commit. Gay people choose to be with each other through mutual and voluntary consent.

My view of the issue is that there are a certain number of individuals who are born innately gay, others who are bisexual by inclination and the majority, who are heterosexual. There are cases which are in the grey zone - they may or may not become gay depending on things like social factors and whether they take it up (pardon the pun) as an acquired taste or not, for whatever reason (because it's cool or they like the person for their own reasons or whatever).

Being a mommy's boy who was raised by a dominant mother won't turn a straight guy into a homo, but it will push the ones in the grey zone, although not necessarily in every single case.

you are using too much rational thought kiwi. they will not understand this.
better keep your future sons from watching modern tv, it might 'turn them gay'  

[tonymctones]

sure there will always be the 'confused' individuals, who often have other mental issues, who go all different ways in their lives..but this tiny minority doesnt negate the vast majority of actual homos who are gay from day one and remain so their whole lives.

what do you mental midgets make of two brothers in the same family, raised not only in similar environments/cultures but the EXACT SAME one, same family, same parents, same neighborhood, exposed to the same media, and one is gay and the other is not?

and yes, Pedos and lots of murderers simply ARE 'just made that way'. the difference is that they KILL PEOPLE  and society obviously cant allow or excuse that just because its the way they are...because they affect other, unconsenting individuals in negative ways. homos on the other hand are 'condoned' by society because they do not hurt or negatively affect others in society who are not like them. its not that hard to understand.

LOL no one is saying that genetics doesnt have anything to do with it we are just saying that it isnt the only factor...

[JOHN MATRIX]

i dont know what 'special treatment/priviledges' you guys are talking about...i think they only want and get equal treatment/privileges as the rest of society.

and as i and kiwi have already explained: murderers and Pedos CAN say that they were born that way. they DO say it. and its true. BUT TI DOESNT MATTER, because they -unlike homos- KILL AND ABUSE unconsenting members of society so they will NEVER get the  'special privilidges' you guys keep speculating about    

[chaos]

i dont know what 'special treatment/priviledges' you guys are talking about...i think they only want and get equal treatment/privileges as the rest of society.

and as i and kiwi have already explained: murderers and Pedos CAN say that they were born that way. they DO say it. and its true. BUT TI DOESNT MATTER, because they -unlike homos- KILL AND ABUSE unconsenting members of society so they will NEVER get the  'special privilidges' you guys keep speculating about    

You should learn to be more tolerant towards people born with disabilities, like pedos and rapists and gays.

[tonymctones]

i dont know what 'special treatment/priviledges' you guys are talking about...i think they only want and get equal treatment/privileges as the rest of society.

and as i and kiwi have already explained: murderers and Pedos CAN say that they were born that way. they DO say it. and its true. BUT TI DOESNT MATTER, because they -unlike homos- KILL AND ABUSE unconsenting members of society so they will NEVER get the  'special privilidges' you guys keep speculating about    

LOL how about being able to sexually harass ppl without being brought up on charges?

you think a straight man walking into a womans locker room wouldnt get that man arrested? but gay men can be in a locker room with other men and its perfectly acceptable...seems equal?

[chaos]

LOL how about being able to sexually harass ppl without being brought up on charges?

you think a straight man walking into a womans locker room wouldnt get that man arrested? but gay men can be in a locker room with other men and its perfectly acceptable...seems equal?

you are using too much rational thought kiwi tony. they will not understand this.
better keep your future sons from watching modern tv, it might 'turn them gay' 

[kiwiol]

the point is that to some extent their behavior is beyond their control just like homosexuality. I agree with your reasoning but if by some ppl's logic gays should be given special treatment b/c of this why are others with similar conditions not?

What do you mean by special treatment? Gay people ask for equal treatment, such as having their marriages recognized as well as things like their "right" to raise a child and so on. Special treatment would equate to something like their wanting to be taxed lower than a straight person of the same economic bracket simply because of their being gay.

It's not about free will, it's about born that way or not.
If someone is born with a violent (or any of the others I've mentioned) predisposition, should society be forced to accept it because they were born that way?

Not at all. Society can recognize someone having psychological problems, such as being very angry and violent, but not accept any such behaviour from those individuals. The fact that they have a problem doesn't give them the right to do what they want. If they lose the distinction of what they can and cannot do, it means they are mentally ill and need medical help (and confinement).

An average person in the street may want to drive a Ferrari which is beyond their means to own, but they don't break the law and steal one just to satiate their need. When they do, they are recognized as a criminal and dealt with accordingly.

It is by their actions that people are judged.