Author Topic: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...  (Read 12715 times)

tonymctones

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Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« on: March 09, 2011, 04:27:03 PM »
and tell me why youre against the things walker has proposed?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/03/08/wisconsin.budget.emails/index.html?iref=allsearch

"An e-mail exchange released by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's office on Tuesday has revealed a series of potential Republican concessions to a three-week standoff over a budget bill that would restrict the collective bargaining rights of most public workers."

why are against this?

"It would also restrict the collective bargaining power of public-sector unions to be limited to wages, and would be capped to the rate of inflation. Pay raises beyond the inflation index would require a voter referendum.The original bill would also restrict contracts and would mandate annual votes for unions to keep their certification."


Princess L

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 04:33:27 PM »
Breaking news happening right now


Capitol Chaos: Republicans Vote on Collective Bargaining Changes
MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate have voted to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers after discovering a way to bypass the chamber's missing Democrats.

All 14 Senate Democrats fled to Illinois nearly three weeks ago, preventing the chamber from having enough members present to consider Gov. Scott Walker's so-called "budget repair bill" -- a proposal introduced to plug a $137 million budget shortfall.

The Senate requires a quorum to take up any measures that spend money. But Republicans on Wednesday split from the legislation the proposal to curtail union rights, and a special conference committee of state lawmakers approved that bill a short time later.

The move set up a vote in the Senate, which voted mere moments later.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/117700913.html
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Primemuscle

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 08:55:42 PM »
and tell me why youre against the things walker has proposed?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/03/08/wisconsin.budget.emails/index.html?iref=allsearch

"An e-mail exchange released by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's office on Tuesday has revealed a series of potential Republican concessions to a three-week standoff over a budget bill that would restrict the collective bargaining rights of most public workers."

why are against this?

"It would also restrict the collective bargaining power of public-sector unions to be limited to wages, and would be capped to the rate of inflation. Pay raises beyond the inflation index would require a voter referendum.The original bill would also restrict contracts and would mandate annual votes for unions to keep their certification."



I could not say how I feel about this any more eloquently than Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller did:

"In 30 minutes, 18 state Senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin. Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten," said Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller. "Tonight, 18 Senate Republicans conspired to take government away from the people."

Understand that this is not about public employees bargaining rights so much as it is a political move designed to give the Republican party more power. It is a divide and conquer strategy, picking off unions one union at a time. Historically, Republicans raise more campaign funds and yet Democrates still get elected. Why do you suppose this is the case? It is the case because union employees are organized and willing to get out an stump for candidates who will represent them. Often this effort wins elections for candidates and sometimes it doesn't.

You and I have been engaged in a discussion that clearly examples how some folks have no idea what public employees do, even when they have family members who are public employees. The laws of supply and demand will eventually prevail. In the current downturned economy with its high unemployment, folks may cling to their jobs despite reductions in wages and benefits. However, when the economy recovers even slightly, there will be a shortage of folks who are willing to accept low paid jobs in public employment. Where I live, jobs in the public sector are going unfilled at present and Oregon has 10% unemployment.

BTW, you should have a conversation with your dad about what is happening with postal workers today. Are you aware that the Post Master General is moving towards privatization? The reason your dad is working a lot of overtime is because the post office is not hiring new employees when vacancies occur. Why is this? It is because the Post Master is seeking to reduce delivery days and moving toward no home delivery. Why do you think the USPS is advertising post office boxes as a better option to home delivery.

Corporate America is seeking through the Republican Party and Tea Party movement to pick off one union at a time until there are no labor unions. Why? Because if there was no organized labor, some folks would work for wages similar to those of the third world countries. And the rich get richer on the backs of the working class. Are we ready for the revolution? I don't think we will get as far as corporations telling us "let them eat cake!" before that happens.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 08:58:25 PM »
Taxpayers averaging 44k a year should not be paying more to subsidize union mini-madoffs making double. 

Sorry - we are broke - get with the damn program. 

Primemuscle

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 09:29:23 PM »
Taxpayers averaging 44k a year should not be paying more to subsidize union mini-madoffs making double. 

Sorry - we are broke - get with the damn program. 

And how is it that they are subsidizing "union mini-madoff's." Actually there is no comparison between Bernie Madoff and union executives....so I don't get the reference at all.

Many if not most union workers are suffering financially just as is most everyone except perhaps the corporate executives who got us into this mess in the first place.

Ron

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 11:05:53 PM »
All I can say that it is about time - Wisconsin's governor is doing what millions want him to do, as are other states.

The problem is that the union and their protestors yell and scream and berate, while the silent majority is extremely happy with what is going on.

Rising health costs, generous pensions plans... enough is enough...



You all seem to forget - these are government workers, using money paid by the hard working taxpayers.  Don't ask for sympathy when they have to pay for their portion of health costs, they don't get full pensions, and they don't get 13 days of holidays, 3 weeks of sick days, and 4 weeks of vacation.

Sorry, millions are not going to give them sympathy, except for the 10,000 yelling and screaming 'union' protestors.


whork25

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 01:11:53 AM »
It needs to be done. End of story

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 03:47:02 AM »
I could not say how I feel about this any more eloquently than Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller did:

"In 30 minutes, 18 state Senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin. Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten," said Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller. "Tonight, 18 Senate Republicans conspired to take government away from the people."

Understand that this is not about public employees bargaining rights so much as it is a political move designed to give the Republican party more power. It is a divide and conquer strategy, picking off unions one union at a time. Historically, Republicans raise more campaign funds and yet Democrates still get elected. Why do you suppose this is the case? It is the case because union employees are organized and willing to get out an stump for candidates who will represent them. Often this effort wins elections for candidates and sometimes it doesn't.

You and I have been engaged in a discussion that clearly examples how some folks have no idea what public employees do, even when they have family members who are public employees. The laws of supply and demand will eventually prevail. In the current downturned economy with its high unemployment, folks may cling to their jobs despite reductions in wages and benefits. However, when the economy recovers even slightly, there will be a shortage of folks who are willing to accept low paid jobs in public employment. Where I live, jobs in the public sector are going unfilled at present and Oregon has 10% unemployment.

BTW, you should have a conversation with your dad about what is happening with postal workers today. Are you aware that the Post Master General is moving towards privatization? The reason your dad is working a lot of overtime is because the post office is not hiring new employees when vacancies occur. Why is this? It is because the Post Master is seeking to reduce delivery days and moving toward no home delivery. Why do you think the USPS is advertising post office boxes as a better option to home delivery.

Corporate America is seeking through the Republican Party and Tea Party movement to pick off one union at a time until there are no labor unions. Why? Because if there was no organized labor, some folks would work for wages similar to those of the third world countries. And the rich get richer on the backs of the working class. Are we ready for the revolution? I don't think we will get as far as corporations telling us "let them eat cake!" before that happens.
way to respond without answering the question i asked...

why are you against the specific issues in walkers bill individually i want reasons for being against each one...

actually my friend I apparently have a pretty damn good understanding of the issues. From what I understand about the post office youre way of their as well. My pops doesnt work as much overtime lately and they are running on an out of date business model that doesnt let them compete in this market.Just like in the private sector if you have a bad business model then your business fails or if you have bad controls on spending your business fails. YOURE learning that as we speak, the difference is that in the public sector with unions you have the security of knowing that your jobs will always be there which allows you to make idiotic demands like you have. If the unions had conceded when they were asked they wouldnt have been put in this position.

no go back and respond to the original question...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 03:55:07 AM »
Again - why should public unions be allowed to exist in the first place? 

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 05:15:16 AM »
and tell me why youre against the things walker has proposed?


why are against this?

"It would also restrict the collective bargaining power of public-sector unions to be limited to wages, and would be capped to the rate of inflation. Pay raises beyond the inflation index would require a voter referendum.The original bill would also restrict contracts and would mandate annual votes for unions to keep their certification."



Because it's a bad deal. Benefits are major deciding factors for anyone considering a new job, whether they are in a union or not. Most of these ridiculous numbers you hear about how overpaid the Wi. faculty is are tied to exaggerations of their benefits.  Of course giving up the right to negotiate benefits and only being able to negotiate wages would be a huge issue, especially if one of the provisions of the bill is tying potential wage increases to the CPI. The significance is compounded when you take into account the fact that the unions in question were operating in good faith, while Walker was operating under fraudulent motives.







Sorry, millions are not going to give them sympathy, except for the 10,000 yelling and screaming 'union' protestors.



If this is the case, then why was support of the counterprotests so timid?

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 05:16:40 AM »
Again - why should public unions be allowed to exist in the first place? 

Because employers and employees have fundamentally different interests and -in most cases- employers hold far more leverage.

Fury

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 06:01:18 AM »
A Madison, WI bus driver made $160,000 in 2009. If that doesn't show how broken the system is to these far-lefties then nothing will.

$160,000 for driving a school bus. Really?  ::)

The Showstoppa

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 06:12:21 AM »

If this is the case, then why was support of the counterprotests so timid?

Because the people who would have been involved in "counter protests" were too busy working and providing for their families instead of using fake sick days because the "union" told them to...

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 06:15:49 AM »
A Madison, WI bus driver made $160,000 in 2009. If that doesn't show how broken the system is to these far-lefties then nothing will.

$160,000 for driving a school bus. Really?  ::)


First of all, Wisconsin's public transit system is growing at a breakneck pace. Secondly, a hiring freeze put in place during the previous contract period resulted in there being a deficit of available workers which in turn resulted in many workers working hundreds of hours of overtime.

No system is perfect, but that's not really a good example of how the union system is broken.

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 06:17:34 AM »
Because the people who would have been involved in "counter protests" were too busy working and providing for their families instead of using fake sick days because the "union" told them to...

 ::) Despite the fact that most counterprotests were scheduled for weekends. Tea baggers never seemed to have a problem gathering supporters.

Fury

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 06:21:53 AM »

First of all, Wisconsin's public transit system is growing at a breakneck pace. Secondly, a hiring freeze put in place during the previous contract period resulted in there being a deficit of available workers which in turn resulted in many workers working hundreds of hours of overtime.

No system is perfect, but that's not really a good example of how the union system is broken.

Ahh, so you're justifying a school bus driver making $160,000 a year. There are MDs that don't make that much.  ::)

The Showstoppa

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 06:23:05 AM »
::) Despite the fact that most counterprotests were scheduled for weekends. Tea baggers never seemed to have a problem gathering supporters.

Roll your eyes all you want.  Your above post somehow justifying a bus driver making 160k reveals your grasp of the issues.

Great..... no better way to spend the weekend than "counter protesting...."  ::)

blacken700

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 06:28:04 AM »
not school bus, public transit. its a lot of money but he is working a shit load of hours, pay is 26 dollars an hour

Fury

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 06:31:12 AM »
A bus driver should not be making $160,000 a year and it just goes to show how out of control these public unions are. Anyone justifying it truly has a severe disconnect from reality.

Princess L

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The Showstoppa

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 06:36:14 AM »
not school bus, public transit. its a lot of money but he is working a shit load of hours, pay is 26 dollars an hour

I don't care if he is working 100hrs a week, no way in any universe that warrants the PUBLIC to pay him 160k a yr !!!  Get out of here with that garbage.  26 an hour for that job is insane too. 

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 06:39:49 AM »
Ahh, so you're justifying a school bus driver making $160,000 a year. There are MDs that don't make that much.  ::)

 ::) I didn't "justify" anything, I explained  how this wasn't an example of a broken union system.

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2011, 06:41:15 AM »
Roll your eyes all you want.  Your above post somehow justifying a bus driver making 160k reveals your grasp of the issues.

Great..... no better way to spend the weekend than "counter protesting...."  ::)

The discrepancy between the supporters on each side shows where the public stands on the issue, which was the point.  ::)





blacken700

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2011, 06:42:29 AM »
with the amount of hours he's working you will have to hire another person to cover the hours,so now you have another persons 40m hour pay and his benefit package to pay for . i don't know what should a bus driver make an hour ???

Al Doggity

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2011, 06:44:31 AM »
with the amount of hours he's working you will have to hire another person to cover the hours,so now you have another persons 40m hour pay and his benefit package to pay for . i don't know what should a bus driver make an hour ???

Which was the initial problem to begin with, their weren't enough drivers to cover the amount of routes that needed to be filled.